peridot
13.12.2007, 11:57 |
To Alli: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin? (Yasmin)
|
My gyno wants to put me on it but w/ so many mixed reactions I'm naturally scared. Since you seem to know a bit about it (and I'm so glad it's working for you), I'm wondering if you think I'd be a good candidate too.
My story in a nutshell:
37 yrs. old
never got my period naturally; was put on the pill at age 16 to induce it, have been on it ever since (currently Sprintec, which is low- but not no-androgen)
all my tests come back well within the range of normal--hormones, thyroid etc.--and always have
started to notice VERY mild increased shed a couple of years ago--POSSIBLY around the time I switched to Sprintec from Orthonovum, but it's so hard to say; so much else was going on. At any rate I wasn't at all concerned until the shed began in earnest 10 mos. ago
What do you think?
THANKS SO MUCH!
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Sadie
13.12.2007, 18:01
@ peridot
|
To Alli: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
My two pence worth (not that you are asking me for it!) is that if you dont have high androgen levels or high testosterone, then i wouldnt go on an anti-androgen BCP.
Sadie is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
14.12.2007, 11:24
@ Sadie
|
To Alli/Sadie: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
Thanks Sadie--could you explain further why that's your conclusion?
Also, what if I'm low estrogen? I mean there's got to be a reason I don't menstruate normally, right?
The dermatologist I saw yesterday, who otherwise knew nothing, noted that for all the talk of normal numbers there are asterisks by my FSH and LH. The only problem is he didn't know what the range was supposed to be. I'll post the #s later and see what you all think.
As always--thanks to all!
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
alli
21.12.2007, 10:20
@ peridot
|
To Alli/Sadie: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
» Thanks Sadie--could you explain further why that's your conclusion?
»
» Also, what if I'm low estrogen? I mean there's got to be a reason I don't
» menstruate normally, right?
»
» The dermatologist I saw yesterday, who otherwise knew nothing, noted that
» for all the talk of normal numbers there are asterisks by my FSH and LH.
» The only problem is he didn't know what the range was supposed to be. I'll
» post the #s later and see what you all think.
»
» As always--thanks to all!
Hi -
Sorry - I haven't been checking the boards in a few days. Its really hard to say. I think finding out why you don't get your period would help. Its not pcos right?
alli is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Sadie
21.12.2007, 11:37
@ peridot
|
To Alli/Sadie: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
» Thanks Sadie--could you explain further why that's your conclusion?
Based on my own experience, which is why i wouldnt take it as conclusive, lol. I noticed rapid thinning whilst on dianette - an anti-androgen that was given to me for my thinning hair. I dont have elevated androgens but my Derm assumed it must be a sensitivity to androgens therefore recommended the dianette antiandrogen. Since being on it, and off it, i noticed my hair loss rapidly worsen.
» Also, what if I'm low estrogen? I mean there's got to be a reason I don't
» menstruate normally, right?
Then a BCP would help if you are low estrogen! Your situation is very different. I would so find out the root cause as to why you are not having a monthly cycle.
» The dermatologist I saw yesterday, who otherwise knew nothing, noted that
» for all the talk of normal numbers there are asterisks by my FSH and LH.
» The only problem is he didn't know what the range was supposed to be. I'll
» post the #s later and see what you all think.
Well after the 3rd trip to my Derm last week he highlighted the FSH and LH but didnt explain what about them i.e. too high/low? and that probably indicated some androgen problems, however he failed to elaborate. Let me know if you have found anything out since re. your levels, what they should be, and whether you are within range. I think you should also note what day of the month relative to your cycle the tests were taken on.
I doubt ive been much help to you, but im only talking from my personal experience of going on a BCP.
Sadie is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
eb
21.12.2007, 17:02
@ peridot
|
To Alli: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
» My gyno wants to put me on it but w/ so many mixed reactions I'm naturally
» scared. Since you seem to know a bit about it (and I'm so glad it's
» working for you), I'm wondering if you think I'd be a good candidate too.
»
»
» My story in a nutshell:
»
» 37 yrs. old
»
» never got my period naturally; was put on the pill at age 16 to induce it,
» have been on it ever since (currently Sprintec, which is low- but not
» no-androgen)
»
» all my tests come back well within the range of normal--hormones, thyroid
» etc.--and always have
»
» started to notice VERY mild increased shed a couple of years ago--POSSIBLY
» around the time I switched to Sprintec from Orthonovum, but it's so hard to
» say; so much else was going on. At any rate I wasn't at all concerned until
» the shed began in earnest 10 mos. ago
»
» What do you think?
» THANKS SO MUCH!
Hey, I think we just talked about this the other day, and it's still your (very tough) call, but if you are going anti-androgen, go on Yaz first, not Diane, and only switch to Diane if Yaz doesn't work. Please, by all means try Yaz before Diane. I know one woman with acne and presumed AGA who did GREAT on it, and I think V is doing well on it, but a lot of other stories are a bit scary.
I might even try Desogen before Yaz/Yasmin.
Note: Yaz (20mcg) is lower E than Yasmin (30 or 35mcg), so if you can tolerate high E, go with Yasmin (better for your hair).
Alli's right, you really should find out why you never started having periods...but that likely involves getting off the pill for a cycle. Also, the problem of your NOT cycling makes it difficult to determine when your day 3 is. It could be nothing (programmed to start late), it could be PCOS, it could be another hormonal problem, and it could even be a rare pituitary defect (my best friend in middle school had this and got growth hormone injections, and only got her period at 17-18--lucky her! and she's now taller than me!) and it really sucks they didn't bother to figure out WHY before they stuck you on the pill for decades!
Ok, Sadie, about the low or high androgens, labs don't always reflect what goes on peripherally, and this is but one part of why AGA is so confusing and frustrating. Read some of Holly's posts on endocrinology at the periphery. I used to have the lowest androgens...T in the teens low 20s, and a free T that was barely measurable (but higher DHEAS). But if you looked at me, knowing what you do now, you'd see I belong in a dermatology textbook because of my sh*tty skin (Crisco oily, acne, cystic boils) and thinning hair. I mean, if I don't wash my face every hour it glistens. I went YEARS wondering why this was the case and only when I started losing my damn hair did I search for the cause.
I've had visible androgen sensitivity since I was about 10 and got my period and it has just gotten worse and worse, but generally my labs do not reflect high (or even normal) androgens. Just low. (I'm discounting my post-spiro labs hoping they will normalize because those showed PCOS numbers for some reason. And, despite my low androgens, spiro cleared my skin up nicely and with the aid of Rogaine, slowed my shed. 100% CONFIRMING my androgen sensitivity, not that you couldn't tell by lookig at me.)
Basically, if you suspect AGA and see high androgens on labs, that all but confirms it. But if you suspect AGA and see normal or even low androgens on labs, that doesn't rule out AGA. Labs just tell you part of the story.
Clear as mud, right?
Sadie, one more thing, did you get your thyroid antibodies sorted out? I wouldn't bank on it as the cause of your HL, but it might be a contributory factor.
eb is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Sadie
21.12.2007, 17:22
@ eb
|
To Alli: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
Eb, i appreciate the clarity of your posts re. androgens. My only indication of sensitive androgen activity is the hair loss and the mild acne, which has almost cleared w homeopathic medicine alone. Assuming the acne can be dealt with by non-anti androgens then only the hair loss remains. For that dianette made it much much worse. If i switch to another pill, im just scared of what further problems may arise. My Derm suggested Yasmin or Marvelon as a switch from dianette. But ive heard crap stories from both.
What natural ways are there of treating this androgen sensitivity, that by logical deduction of my blood results i must have?! When i mentioned this assumed "sensitivity", my Derm said something about my FSH and LH and how they might indicate androgen issues. I didnt ask him to elaborate further as i'd had enough.
Sadie is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
27.12.2007, 10:43
@ alli
|
To Alli/Sadie: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
Hi--it's definitely not PCOS in the classic sense, though my new gyno was saying how it's now coming out that there are really 2 types of people w/ PCOS, the candidates who tend toward hirsutism/acne/weight gain and those who don't. She feels that way simply b/c I never got my period and at 16 they finally put me on the pill. Even on the pill it's tended to be light/short.
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
27.12.2007, 10:53
@ eb
|
To eb
|
Yes, eb, I'd written this msg. before you & I talked and I've learned a lot from you since!
Frustrated b/c the timing worked out such that the 3rd day of my cycle was this week, while I've been out of town. So now I'm going to have to wait ANOTHER month before getting my hormones retested.
BUT--so if you were me would you go OFF the pill for a full monthly cycle? Normally I'd be starting the next pack on Sat. but now I'm wondering if I should. Would that be enough time to TRULY see what my levels are (though the gyno, and you too really, have suggested that the tests I've already had done, which all come out normal, are probably pretty close to accurate, pill or no pill)? Or do you have to be off longer than 1 cycle? Or should I just stick w/ the "stay on the pill but get tested the 3rd day of your cycle" plan?
Aargh. Every day my conviction that the thing to do will be shave it all off grows stronger. (I've been saying this for months now, I know, but it will take a few more to work up the nerve I'm sure!)
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
27.12.2007, 10:54
@ alli
|
p.s. To Alli
|
Yaz is still going well for you I hope?
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
27.12.2007, 10:58
@ Sadie
|
To Alli/Sadie: what defines a good candidate for Yaz/Yasmin?
|
Unfortunately I didn't know enough back in April to pay attention to what day of my cycle I was being tested. So of course the completely normal results I currently have are pill-affected, which is why I want a new workup. Doing it this month...
eb's opinion is that those April tests look good even accounting for the fact that I was on the pill. And as we all know, no real hormonal problems means no clear HL solution. Grrr...
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Holly
27.12.2007, 11:19
@ peridot
|
To eb
|
Hi Peridot,
I'm not sure why your derm would bother testing you on day 3 if you are currently on the pill. I know there are testing 'ranges' for pill users and one may be able to extrapolate something from them, but I doubt it. The reason being is quite simply because the ovaries are shut down and have no FSH/LH stimulation to produce ovulation. The 'bleeding' one sees when on the inactive placebo pills is just withdrawal bleeding - meaning you just took away the active hormones to elicit bleeding. It means nothing.
As far as going off the pill, I personally believe you would need to be off for about 3 cycles to truly see what the ovaries are producing. It sometimes takes awhile for them to get back up and running - think of a car that's been parked in the garage for years and years!
Of course, the problem with going off the pill is the dread shed - which will most likely occur because of the drop in synthetic hormone your body has been relying on for many years. When I went off the pill last year, I thought I had skated through without the dread shed, but it hit me with a vengeance at 3.5 months and continued for 4 months.
EB is exactly right. The problem with testing serum levels of hormone is that they do not tell the story of what is going on locally at the tissue level. The main function of hormones is to stimulate cellular function within the tissues of organs, skin and muscles. Blood tests are of limited use, but can be helpful if one has abnormal results.
» Yes, eb, I'd written this msg. before you & I talked and I've learned a lot
» from you since!
»
» Frustrated b/c the timing worked out such that the 3rd day of my cycle was
» this week, while I've been out of town. So now I'm going to have to wait
» ANOTHER month before getting my hormones retested.
»
» BUT--so if you were me would you go OFF the pill for a full monthly cycle?
» Normally I'd be starting the next pack on Sat. but now I'm wondering if I
» should. Would that be enough time to TRULY see what my levels are (though
» the gyno, and you too really, have suggested that the tests I've already
» had done, which all come out normal, are probably pretty close to
» accurate, pill or no pill)? Or do you have to be off longer than 1 cycle?
» Or should I just stick w/ the "stay on the pill but get tested the 3rd day
» of your cycle" plan?
»
» Aargh. Every day my conviction that the thing to do will be shave it all
» off grows stronger. (I've been saying this for months now, I know, but it
» will take a few more to work up the nerve I'm sure!)
Holly is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Sadie
27.12.2007, 14:51
@ Holly
|
To Holly
|
Hi Holly,
Do you think the amount of dread shed one experiences in coming off the pill depends on how long they were on it in the first place?
I was on dianette for 3 months and currently off for 2 weeks...my derm said expect some loss in the 4-6 week period, but im wondering how long this is going to go on 
Sadie is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Holly
27.12.2007, 15:34
@ Sadie
|
To Holly
|
» Hi Holly,
»
» Do you think the amount of dread shed one experiences in coming off the
» pill depends on how long they were on it in the first place?
»
» I was on dianette for 3 months and currently off for 2 weeks...my derm
» said expect some loss in the 4-6 week period, but im wondering how long
» this is going to go on
Hi Sadie,
I don't think the amount of shedding correlates with length of time one is on the pill (provided one is on it for more than a few weeks), since shedding is more indicative of the disruption of ovarian function and the withdrawal of the boatload of hormones the pill provides. Unfortunately, I do think being on the pill 3 months would definitely cause a shed.
The question is, how long will it last? I believe this varies from person to person. In my personal experience, my shedding increased after a couple weeks but wasn't too bad until I hit the 3.5 month mark - then it turned scary! As I said, it lasted for a good 4 months after that. I was on the pill for a total of 7 months. I immediately went on .05 Vivelle, thinking it might lessen the severity of the shed and I have no idea if it would have been worse had I not.
The good news is that I am definitely getting some growth, but nowhere near to the healthy thick diameters of my pre-AGA hair. (but I'll take what I can get!)
So take heart Sadie, it DOES eventually stop! Hang in there!
Holly is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Sadie
27.12.2007, 16:15
@ Holly
|
To Holly
|
I'm really annoyed at myself for wanting to go on dianette a second time in one year. I was on it for 1.5 months in January, purely for acne, and didnt think it caused the progressive thinning thereafter which never ever stopped (come August when i joined these boards i was still thinning big time). So i went on it again, this time to halt the thinng, in september, only for the hair loss to get worse. This makes me think that the dianette offset the rapid thinning earlier this year, which never got better second time round on dianette.
What ive got to look forward to is now further thinning as ive only been off it for 2 weeks....caused yet again by dianette. I just hope i have enough hair left to fit hair extensions in next month! Stupid bloody pill!
Sadie is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
28.12.2007, 09:47
@ Holly
|
To eb/Holly/Sadie...
|
Hi guys--
Thanks so, so much for your thoughts. So 1 month won't cut it; I hear you. Now I'm wondering--if you were me, do you think it would be worth the risk to go off the pill for 3 months, right now, & get retested once & for all to see if the tests might reveal some reason why I never got my period as an adolescent and/or to see if I might be in perimenopause now?
Or do you think that the tests they've administered throughout my life have always come back normal means that it's really not worth the risk to go off the pill?
So then it would just be a Q, for me, of whether I switch from my low-androgen Sprintec to Yaz, or add Fin or Avodart to my current useless regimen of Rogaine/Spiro/BCPs, or what.
Along w/ continuing to learn how to live with it.
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
eb
30.12.2007, 14:21
@ peridot
|
To eb
|
» Yes, eb, I'd written this msg. before you & I talked and I've learned a lot
» from you since!
»
» Frustrated b/c the timing worked out such that the 3rd day of my cycle was
» this week, while I've been out of town. So now I'm going to have to wait
» ANOTHER month before getting my hormones retested.
»
» BUT--so if you were me would you go OFF the pill for a full monthly cycle?
» Normally I'd be starting the next pack on Sat. but now I'm wondering if I
» should. Would that be enough time to TRULY see what my levels are (though
» the gyno, and you too really, have suggested that the tests I've already
» had done, which all come out normal, are probably pretty close to
» accurate, pill or no pill)? Or do you have to be off longer than 1 cycle?
» Or should I just stick w/ the "stay on the pill but get tested the 3rd day
» of your cycle" plan?
»
» Aargh. Every day my conviction that the thing to do will be shave it all
» off grows stronger. (I've been saying this for months now, I know, but it
» will take a few more to work up the nerve I'm sure!)
Peridot, sorry for the late reply, I was out of town this week and I guess by now you started your new pack of pills already. All the advice Holly gave you is correct. I go to Holly for hair advice! One month isn't long enough, and it's wishful thinking to rely on that as 100% accurate. Remember labs are just one snapshot in time, too. It's more the overall trend that matters.
In one of my previous posts, I told you labs don't tell the whole story because a lot of problems occur at the peripheral level which is unmeasurable as far as I know. However, that's only partially correct. The interesting thing is that for PCOS women, labs ARE very accurate, because it's more of a systemic than a local problem. But for non-PCOS women like me, labs don't tell you everything.
I just saw a holistic gyn who was much more interested in my "probable PCOS" than in the problem I was seeing her for, but I don't think I have it... she thinks there's a "spectrum" of PCOS and you can have it "a little or a lot." I don't know if I believe that, since right now the sina qua non of PCOS is anovulatory cycles, and I never had that until I took spiro.
It would helpful overall to know whether you have PCOS, but again, the treatment *in terms of hair* is the same...sooooo...
Did you switch to Yaz or Yasmin or did you stay with the old pill? I don't know what to tell you-- I think it depends whether you are feeling good on the pill. If you are, don't tamper with a status quo that is working. If you think it is contributing to your hair loss, quit.
eb is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
30.12.2007, 15:10
@ eb
|
To eb
|
» Peridot, sorry for the late reply, I was out of town this week and I guess
» by now you started your new pack of pills already. All the advice Holly
» gave you is correct. I go to Holly for hair advice! One month isn't long
» enough, and it's wishful thinking to rely on that as 100% accurate.
» Remember labs are just one snapshot in time, too. It's more the overall
» trend that matters.
»
» In one of my previous posts, I told you labs don't tell the whole story
» because a lot of problems occur at the peripheral level which is
» unmeasurable as far as I know. However, that's only partially correct. The
» interesting thing is that for PCOS women, labs ARE very accurate, because
» it's more of a systemic than a local problem. But for non-PCOS women like
» me, labs don't tell you everything.
»
» I just saw a holistic gyn who was much more interested in my "probable
» PCOS" than in the problem I was seeing her for, but I don't think I have
» it... she thinks there's a "spectrum" of PCOS and you can have it "a
» little or a lot." I don't know if I believe that, since right now the sina
» qua non of PCOS is anovulatory cycles, and I never had that until I took
» spiro.
»
» It would helpful overall to know whether you have PCOS, but again, the
» treatment *in terms of hair* is the same...sooooo...
»
Hi eb: Well, the PCOS test I took last summer came back negative, but of course, the pill ensured it would, so it was kinda pointless. But my gyno said the exact same thing your gyno did and thinks I have some form of PCOS.
Here's my feeling: I don't think the pill could really be a factor b/c I've been on it in one form or another for 20 years, and the HL didn't start until recently. Since it doesn't seem to be the main culprit, and if I do indeed have some form of PCOS and/or I'm entering perimenopause, then Yaz could help, right?
I did start this next pack of pills (Sprintec) yesterdat since my doctor's out of town for the holidays anyway. I assume that means I have to wait another month to get retested and/or start on Yaz or Yasmin.
With my current regiment being this:
1) Rogaine since June, yielding no real results. Shed is as rotten as ever. I do see regrowth but it's the crappy kind.
2) Spiro since Nov., starting at 50, changing to 100 in early Dec. & bumping up to 150 this week. Yielding no real results thus far. I'll give it a few more months.
3) BCPs
I guess my plan is this:
1) to get retested on day 3 of my cycle in late Jan., knowing it's probably useless, but just so the gyno can look for anything wildly different than the last time I got tested, since as Holly says having results you can compare over time might be helpful.
2) To at that point start Yaz, if it seems like a genuine possibility, which I'm still debating about, OR stay on my old BCP and start Avodart.
I haven't heard about the kinds of sheds on Avo. that I have other stuff though, which makes it tempting. Have you? I could have just overlooked them. You're still thinking about starting it right?
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
eb
07.01.2008, 15:39
@ peridot
|
To eb
|
» » Peridot, sorry for the late reply, I was out of town this week and I
» guess
» » by now you started your new pack of pills already. All the advice Holly
» » gave you is correct. I go to Holly for hair advice! One month isn't
» long
» » enough, and it's wishful thinking to rely on that as 100% accurate.
» » Remember labs are just one snapshot in time, too. It's more the overall
» » trend that matters.
» »
» » In one of my previous posts, I told you labs don't tell the whole story
» » because a lot of problems occur at the peripheral level which is
» » unmeasurable as far as I know. However, that's only partially correct.
» The
» » interesting thing is that for PCOS women, labs ARE very accurate,
» because
» » it's more of a systemic than a local problem. But for non-PCOS women
» like
» » me, labs don't tell you everything.
» »
» » I just saw a holistic gyn who was much more interested in my "probable
» » PCOS" than in the problem I was seeing her for, but I don't think I
» have
» » it... she thinks there's a "spectrum" of PCOS and you can have it "a
» » little or a lot." I don't know if I believe that, since right now the
» sina
» » qua non of PCOS is anovulatory cycles, and I never had that until I
» took
» » spiro.
» »
» » It would helpful overall to know whether you have PCOS, but again, the
» » treatment *in terms of hair* is the same...sooooo...
» »
» Hi eb: Well, the PCOS test I took last summer came back negative, but of
» course, the pill ensured it would, so it was kinda pointless. But my gyno
» said the exact same thing your gyno did and thinks I have some form of
» PCOS.
»
Peridot, sorry for the delay. I've been so busy lately.
Which test did you have for PCOS? There is no one test that definitively diagnoses PCOS...it's diagnosed via process of elimination.
I think my holistic gyn is wrong about my "mild PCOS" because a sina qua non of PCOS is lack of ovulation. And since I have ovulated every month since I started my period 17 years ago, except for the year on spiro, by definition I don't have PCOS. But what she says about a "spectrum" makes sense...women with PCOS can "induce" ovulatory cycles by exercise and watching what they eat. It's very multifaceted.
Your situation may be different because maybe there was lack of ovulation if you didn't get your period. But maybe you were just programed to start really late.
» Here's my feeling: I don't think the pill could really be a factor b/c
» I've been on it in one form or another for 20 years, and the HL didn't
» start until recently. Since it doesn't seem to be the main culprit, and if
» I do indeed have some form of PCOS and/or I'm entering perimenopause, then
» Yaz could help, right?
»
Sounds like the hair loss was genetically programmed to start regardless of the pill. Yaz could and should help, but everyone is different.
» I did start this next pack of pills (Sprintec) yesterdat since my doctor's
» out of town for the holidays anyway. I assume that means I have to wait
» another month to get retested and/or start on Yaz or Yasmin.
»
» With my current regiment being this:
» 1) Rogaine since June, yielding no real results. Shed is as rotten as
» ever. I do see regrowth but it's the crappy kind.
Ugh, well that's doing better than me, the shed is worse now (since in retrospect spiro was doing the bulk of the work), and no regrowth (not even sickly regrowth, not that I need that type)! Been on it same amount of time as you, since June.
» 2) Spiro since Nov., starting at 50, changing to 100 in early Dec. &
» bumping up to 150 this week. Yielding no real results thus far. I'll give
» it a few more months.
» 3) BCPs
»
Spiro took probably 5-6 months to slow my shed noticeably. I was quite alarmed when, by month 3 (one hair cycle), I didn't see ANY results while other women were blessed with decreased shed WITHIN a WEEK! Give it time. You wouldn't want to be on 200 when 100 is sufficient. It can be a tough drug for some.
» I guess my plan is this:
» 1) to get retested on day 3 of my cycle in late Jan., knowing it's
» probably useless, but just so the gyno can look for anything wildly
» different than the last time I got tested, since as Holly says having
» results you can compare over time might be helpful.
This is a good idea anyway, it may be useless, but it may be helpful in the sense you can test while ON the pill and keep comparing (pill against pill)? I haven't tried this, but seems somewhat plausible.
» 2) To at that point start Yaz, if it seems like a genuine possibility,
» which I'm still debating about, OR stay on my old BCP and start Avodart.
»
» I haven't heard about the kinds of sheds on Avo. that I have other stuff
» though, which makes it tempting. Have you? I could have just overlooked
» them. You're still thinking about starting it right?
I am, but it really scares me, and I'm aware that it's AT BEST a temporary or band-aid "fix" until HM or gene therapy comes along (if it ever does, I'm skeptical, and even if it is made commercially available it will be a looooooong wait in line to get it done and you might starve trying to pay for it). I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but you must understand that right now, there is still no way of altering your genes. These treatments "stave off" hair loss...but they don't reverse it, not permanently, because they do not change your genetic material. And sooner or later, genetic destiny catches up.
I'll probably be 60 by the time something "easy" like that is available to the average person with average means, and if at 60 I still care so damn much about my hair... shoot me.
Keep me informed what you decide and good luck.
eb is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
07.01.2008, 17:34
@ eb
|
To eb
|
» Peridot, sorry for the delay. I've been so busy lately.
No worries, eb, thanks for responding at all! It's been great to talk to you these past few weeks.
»
» Which test did you have for PCOS? There is no one test that definitively
» diagnoses PCOS...it's diagnosed via process of elimination.
»
» I think my holistic gyn is wrong about my "mild PCOS" because a sina qua
» non of PCOS is lack of ovulation. And since I have ovulated every month
» since I started my period 17 years ago, except for the year on spiro, by
» definition I don't have PCOS. But what she says about a "spectrum" makes
» sense...women with PCOS can "induce" ovulatory cycles by exercise and
» watching what they eat. It's very multifaceted.
»
» Spiro took probably 5-6 months to slow my shed noticeably. I was quite
» alarmed when, by month 3 (one hair cycle), I didn't see ANY results while
» other women were blessed with decreased shed WITHIN a WEEK! Give it time.
» You wouldn't want to be on 200 when 100 is sufficient. It can be a tough
» drug for some.
»
BTW, what dosage of Spiro were you on?
» » I guess my plan is this:
» » 1) to get retested on day 3 of my cycle in late Jan., knowing it's
» » probably useless, but just so the gyno can look for anything wildly
» » different than the last time I got tested, since as Holly says having
» » results you can compare over time might be helpful.
» I am, but it really scares me, and I'm aware that it's AT BEST a temporary
» or band-aid "fix" until HM or gene therapy comes along (if it ever does,
» I'm skeptical, and even if it is made commercially available it will be a
» looooooong wait in line to get it done and you might starve trying to pay
» for it). I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but you must understand that
» right now, there is still no way of altering your genes. These treatments
» "stave off" hair loss...but they don't reverse it, not permanently,
» because they do not change your genetic material. And sooner or later,
» genetic destiny catches up.
»
» I'll probably be 60 by the time something "easy" like that is available to
» the average person with average means, and if at 60 I still care so damn
» much about my hair... shoot me.
»
» Keep me informed what you decide and good luck.
Well, I broke down and ordered some Fin online last week, but I sort of did it for the mental relief of having done it; I may not take it at all (an expensive form of relief, but oh well) or wait til I've been back to both the gyno & the derm.
I may do the same w/ Avo. Why does it scare you?
What the guys on the men's forums have to say about HM is really interesting. They give me hope. They're always arguing about how far on the horizon it really is, and about who'll really have access to it once it comes into being--but ultimately, though I'm by nature a skeptic too, the arguments that it may very well be fairly accessible within a few years win me over, for the simple reason that the companies seeking treatments stand to gain billions the more readily available it is.
Anyway, you too...let me/us know what you decide to do!
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
eb
07.01.2008, 18:09
@ peridot
|
To eb
|
» » Peridot, sorry for the delay. I've been so busy lately.
»
» No worries, eb, thanks for responding at all! It's been great to talk to
» you these past few weeks.
» »
» » Which test did you have for PCOS? There is no one test that
» definitively
» » diagnoses PCOS...it's diagnosed via process of elimination.
» »
» » I think my holistic gyn is wrong about my "mild PCOS" because a sina
» qua
» » non of PCOS is lack of ovulation. And since I have ovulated every month
» » since I started my period 17 years ago, except for the year on spiro,
» by
» » definition I don't have PCOS. But what she says about a "spectrum"
» makes
» » sense...women with PCOS can "induce" ovulatory cycles by exercise and
» » watching what they eat. It's very multifaceted.
» »
»
» » Spiro took probably 5-6 months to slow my shed noticeably. I was quite
» » alarmed when, by month 3 (one hair cycle), I didn't see ANY results
» while
» » other women were blessed with decreased shed WITHIN a WEEK! Give it
» time.
» » You wouldn't want to be on 200 when 100 is sufficient. It can be a
» tough
» » drug for some.
» »
»
» BTW, what dosage of Spiro were you on?
»
Hey again,
In January I started at 25mg, by March I was on 100mg. By the beginning of April I got up to 175mg, then experienced a massive bleed where I had to sit in the bathtub and thought seriously of going to the hospital. (Previously I tried 25mg once in November 2006 and promptly got an early period and quit right there. I still don't know what that was about, 25mg shouldn't do this to you.)
I figured out my body doesn't like any spiro when I'm having a period, so starting in June, I would take anywhere from 100-150mg (usually 150) when not having a period, quit when having a period (which was every 2,3 weeks) and start back up when I quit bleeding.
Thought I'd outsmarted my body until all hell broke loose in October and I experienced a reflex hyperandrogen effect on 150mg spiro no doubt by taking it so erratically (inconsistent timing, slightly inconsistent dosage). It messed up a lot of my lab work. I also discovered through routine testing another health problem that spiro might have contributed to, so I quit and I'm probably never going back. If I do, it'll be at 25 or 50mg, and no more than that.
I'd say for the most part I was averaging 125mg spiro most days of the month and yes, with Rogaine, it slowed my loss. (Not sure if it stopped it, and no regrowth.)
» » » I guess my plan is this:
» » » 1) to get retested on day 3 of my cycle in late Jan., knowing it's
» » » probably useless, but just so the gyno can look for anything wildly
» » » different than the last time I got tested, since as Holly says having
» » » results you can compare over time might be helpful.
»
» » I am, but it really scares me, and I'm aware that it's AT BEST a
» temporary
» » or band-aid "fix" until HM or gene therapy comes along (if it ever
» does,
» » I'm skeptical, and even if it is made commercially available it will be
» a
» » looooooong wait in line to get it done and you might starve trying to
» pay
» » for it). I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but you must understand that
» » right now, there is still no way of altering your genes. These
» treatments
» » "stave off" hair loss...but they don't reverse it, not permanently,
» » because they do not change your genetic material. And sooner or later,
» » genetic destiny catches up.
» »
» » I'll probably be 60 by the time something "easy" like that is available
» to
» » the average person with average means, and if at 60 I still care so
» damn
» » much about my hair... shoot me.
» »
» » Keep me informed what you decide and good luck.
»
» Well, I broke down and ordered some Fin online last week, but I sort of
» did it for the mental relief of having done it; I may not take it at all
» (an expensive form of relief, but oh well) or wait til I've been back to
» both the gyno & the derm.
Hold off on the fin, it works great for dudes but I'm not convinced it works for women who don't also exhibit hirsutism with AGA.
» I may do the same w/ Avo. Why does it scare you?
On the Taiwanese fin insert it mentions causing liver problems in some men (elevated enzymes and the like) (I'm mostly Taiwanese) so I did some digging around and found Asian people are more sensitive to certain androgen blockers (documented hepatic hypersensitivity to flutamide and CPA, while most Caucasian people don't have trouble with either). I'm concerned about Avo for that reason and it's why I bypassed flut and CPA.
Also, reflex hyperandrogenicity. I experienced it once on spiro and I haven't heard of this happening to anyone else, so I'm reluctant to start another andro blocker. (although my skin and hair sure are begging for it)
And just generally taking such a potent, new drug for as-yet unknown benefits. At this point I am not convinced it will definitely help.
» What the guys on the men's forums have to say about HM is really
» interesting. They give me hope. They're always arguing about how far on
» the horizon it really is, and about who'll really have access to it once
» it comes into being--but ultimately, though I'm by nature a skeptic too,
» the arguments that it may very well be fairly accessible within a few
» years win me over, for the simple reason that the companies seeking
» treatments stand to gain billions the more readily available it is.
»
» Anyway, you too...let me/us know what you decide to do!
I really hope HM is a reality in the foreseeable future (like 10 years or less), but hope lets me down most of the time. I feel comfortable that something like it will be around for any kids I might have if they're unlucky enough to take after me, but I can't say about sooner.
eb is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
08.01.2008, 14:40
@ eb
|
To eb
|
» » » Which test did you have for PCOS? There is no one test that
» » definitively
» » » diagnoses PCOS...it's diagnosed via process of elimination.
Oh, I forgot to answer this...some sort of ultrasound.
» »
»
» Hey again,
»
» In January I started at 25mg, by March I was on 100mg. By the beginning of
» April I got up to 175mg, then experienced a massive bleed where I had to
» sit in the bathtub and thought seriously of going to the hospital.
» (Previously I tried 25mg once in November 2006 and promptly got an early
» period and quit right there. I still don't know what that was about, 25mg
» shouldn't do this to you.)
»
» I figured out my body doesn't like any spiro when I'm having a period, so
» starting in June, I would take anywhere from 100-150mg (usually 150) when
» not having a period, quit when having a period (which was every 2,3 weeks)
» and start back up when I quit bleeding.
»
» I'd say for the most part I was averaging 125mg spiro most days of the
» month and yes, with Rogaine, it slowed my loss. (Not sure if it stopped
» it, and no regrowth.)
I'm not sure what it's doing for me either, and I'm totally self-medicating here...the derm who prescribed it started me at 50, I took myself up to 100 a mo. ago, and since there've been no side effects but also no obvious results, I just bumped it up to 150 based on V's assertion that women require 200 mg. But maybe I should give it a few more mos. on 100 first?
»
»» Hold off on the fin, it works great for dudes but I'm not convinced it
» works for women who don't also exhibit hirsutism with AGA.
»
Hmm...Why is that?
»
» I really hope HM is a reality in the foreseeable future (like 10 years or
» less), but hope lets me down most of the time. I feel comfortable that
» something like it will be around for any kids I might have if they're
» unlucky enough to take after me, but I can't say about sooner.
Me, too, that's why it's cynicism more than hope that keeps me going--the belief that people's desire to make billions will eventually work in our favor!
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
08.01.2008, 18:32
@ eb
|
To eb: Decision '08! (also posted on AGA board)
|
Well, I'll be damned. I just saw a new derm. who runs a transplant & laser center. I didn't expect much from him but since he was well-received in the local press I figured what the hell.
After umpteen know-nothings, he was KNOWLEDGABLE & SYMPATHETIC. I'm in shock.
He said to stick w/ Spiro 150, he encouraged the use of Fin & WROTE ME A PRESCRIPTION since I don't plan on having kids, he took pics & said to come back in 6 mos. and we'd see if there'd been progress.
He said (and I already knew this, but a 2nd opinion never hurts) I would not be a good candidate for HT b/c, in his words, "I'd have to kill 4 hairs to gain 5." He said he used to be skeptical of lasers but now believes in them b/c he's seen the benefits provided one is realistic about them; he gave me literature on them but didn't push me.
He also referred me to some endocrinologists w/ whom I could discuss retesting my hormones and whether going off or staying on the pill is better before doing so; that much he didn't feel comfortable deciding for me. But it seemed he felt that, regardless, based on my history and the degree of miniaturization he saw w/ his fancy little microscope (25%, he said--citing 20% as normal and 30% as full-blown AGA), a Spiro/Fin combo was a possibility.
Doesn't mean it'll work. But just meeting w/ someone who knows what he's talking about (has written a book & everything) & is willing to supervise me brought me such relief!
Until, that is, I came home and pulled 30 hairs off a sweater that I'd just put on a couple of hours before. Sigh.
When I speak to the new endo., I'll let you (et al.) know what I'm planning in that regard.
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
tc
08.01.2008, 22:15
@ peridot
|
To eb: Decision '08! (also posted on AGA board)
|
» Well, I'll be damned. I just saw a new derm. who runs a transplant & laser
» center. I didn't expect much from him but since he was well-received in
» the local press I figured what the hell.
»
» After umpteen know-nothings, he was KNOWLEDGABLE & SYMPATHETIC. I'm in
» shock.
»
» He said to stick w/ Spiro 150, he encouraged the use of Fin & WROTE ME A
» PRESCRIPTION since I don't plan on having kids, he took pics & said to
» come back in 6 mos. and we'd see if there'd been progress.
»
» He said (and I already knew this, but a 2nd opinion never hurts) I would
» not be a good candidate for HT b/c, in his words, "I'd have to kill 4
» hairs to gain 5." He said he used to be skeptical of lasers but now
» believes in them b/c he's seen the benefits provided one is realistic
» about them; he gave me literature on them but didn't push me.
»
» He also referred me to some endocrinologists w/ whom I could discuss
» retesting my hormones and whether going off or staying on the pill is
» better before doing so; that much he didn't feel comfortable deciding for
» me. But it seemed he felt that, regardless, based on my history and the
» degree of miniaturization he saw w/ his fancy little microscope (25%, he
» said--citing 20% as normal and 30% as full-blown AGA), a Spiro/Fin combo
» was a possibility.
»
» Doesn't mean it'll work. But just meeting w/ someone who knows what he's
» talking about (has written a book & everything) & is willing to supervise
» me brought me such relief!
»
» Until, that is, I came home and pulled 30 hairs off a sweater that I'd
» just put on a couple of hours before. Sigh.
»
» When I speak to the new endo., I'll let you (et al.) know what I'm
» planning in that regard.
Congrats...sounds like you found a good one who really is interested in helping you more than making $$ for himself! Look forward to hearing where this path leads you after seeing the endo. I myself have been on the spiro (200mg),finasteride, BC combo for 4 months now. Personally, I don't feel that it has benefitted me yet, but I hear it can take up to a year. I don't have any negative side effects so I'll stick it out and give it a fair try. I'm seeing Dr. Redmond next month to see where I need to go from here. Best wishes...keep up posted
tc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
09.01.2008, 10:52
@ tc
|
To tc/eb: Decision '08! (also posted on AGA board)
|
»
» Congrats...sounds like you found a good one who really is interested in
» helping you more than making $$ for himself! Look forward to hearing where
» this path leads you after seeing the endo. I myself have been on the spiro
» (200mg),finasteride, BC combo for 4 months now. Personally, I don't feel
» that it has benefitted me yet, but I hear it can take up to a year. I
» don't have any negative side effects so I'll stick it out and give it a
» fair try. I'm seeing Dr. Redmond next month to see where I need to go from
» here. Best wishes...keep up posted
I hope so, tc, I hope so. I don't expect miracles, I just pray for a little relief? Is your BC Yaz/Yasmin? Also, could you remind me whether you're pre- or post-meno? Thanks! Good luck to you too!
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
tc
09.01.2008, 14:00
@ peridot
|
To tc/eb: Decision '08! (also posted on AGA board)
|
» »
» » Congrats...sounds like you found a good one who really is interested in
» » helping you more than making $$ for himself! Look forward to hearing
» where
» » this path leads you after seeing the endo. I myself have been on the
» spiro
» » (200mg),finasteride, BC combo for 4 months now. Personally, I don't
» feel
» » that it has benefitted me yet, but I hear it can take up to a year. I
» » don't have any negative side effects so I'll stick it out and give it a
» » fair try. I'm seeing Dr. Redmond next month to see where I need to go
» from
» » here. Best wishes...keep up posted
»
» I hope so, tc, I hope so. I don't expect miracles, I just pray for a
» little relief? Is your BC Yaz/Yasmin? Also, could you remind me whether
» you're pre- or post-meno? Thanks! Good luck to you too!
I'm 38, no meno in sight. I've been on Apri (generic desogen) for about 5 years I think. Even though Desogen is supposed to be one of the most hair friendly BC's...I still can't help suspect it in the back of my mind for having something to do with my hair loss. I tried the brand Desogen for 3 months and didn't notice any change, don't know if that was long enough. I've been on BC for 12 years, never a problem until a few years ago. I started noticing my hair loss 3 years ago, but it was probably going on before that and I didn't pay attention because I had lots of hair. Do you mind telling me your age and whether you are pre-meno? None of us expect miracle....but these little rays of light are what keep us going aren't they?! The positives mean so much when they actually come about.
tc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
peridot
09.01.2008, 19:13
@ tc
|
To tc/eb: Decision '08! (also posted on AGA board)
|
»
» I'm 38, no meno in sight. I've been on Apri (generic desogen) for about 5
» years I think. Even though Desogen is supposed to be one of the most hair
» friendly BC's...I still can't help suspect it in the back of my mind for
» having something to do with my hair loss. I tried the brand Desogen for 3
» months and didn't notice any change, don't know if that was long enough.
» I've been on BC for 12 years, never a problem until a few years ago. I
» started noticing my hair loss 3 years ago, but it was probably going on
» before that and I didn't pay attention because I had lots of hair. Do you
» mind telling me your age and whether you are pre-meno? None of us expect
» miracle....but these little rays of light are what keep us going aren't
» they?! The positives mean so much when they actually come about.
I'm 37, no meno in sight for me either, as far as I know--but then, there were never any menses in sight until they put me on the pill at age 16 either, so who knows.
My gyno wants to put me on Yaz but I'm really leery of it; I feel as though the low-androgen ones I've been on for so long can't really be the problem, or this would have started a lot earlier.
peridot is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
tc
10.01.2008, 09:08
@ peridot
|
To peridot: Decision '08! (also posted on AGA board)
|
» »
» » I'm 38, no meno in sight. I've been on Apri (generic desogen) for about
» 5
» » years I think. Even though Desogen is supposed to be one of the most
» hair
» » friendly BC's...I still can't help suspect it in the back of my mind
» for
» » having something to do with my hair loss. I tried the brand Desogen for
» 3
» » months and didn't notice any change, don't know if that was long
» enough.
» » I've been on BC for 12 years, never a problem until a few years ago. I
» » started noticing my hair loss 3 years ago, but it was probably going on
» » before that and I didn't pay attention because I had lots of hair. Do
» you
» » mind telling me your age and whether you are pre-meno? None of us
» expect
» » miracle....but these little rays of light are what keep us going aren't
» » they?! The positives mean so much when they actually come about.
»
» I'm 37, no meno in sight for me either, as far as I know--but then, there
» were never any menses in sight until they put me on the pill at age 16
» either, so who knows.
» My gyno wants to put me on Yaz but I'm really leery of it; I feel as
» though the low-androgen ones I've been on for so long can't really be the
» problem, or this would have started a lot earlier.
I have read alot of negatives about Yasmin which is wierd because it contradicts what Dr. Remond says in his book (The Hormonally Vulnerable Woman) that it is one of the best ones. I've never tried it so I can't say.
tc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
delilah
10.01.2008, 11:24
@ tc
|
To peridot: Decision '08! (also posted on AGA board)
|
It's like any drug it's great for some women and not for others. If everyone's HL was the same you'd only need one drug, unfortunately it's not it's a very complicated endocrinology nightmare.
delilah is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
tc
10.01.2008, 21:04
@ delilah
|
To Delilah
|
» It's like any drug it's great for some women and not for others. If
» everyone's HL was the same you'd only need one drug, unfortunately it's
» not it's a very complicated endocrinology nightmare.
Hi~Not sure if you saw it but I posted a link to that other book by Dr. Redmond back under 'miniturisation' where I discussed it...it's on Amazon.
tc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
delilah
11.01.2008, 07:06
@ tc
|
To Delilah
|
» » It's like any drug it's great for some women and not for others. If
» » everyone's HL was the same you'd only need one drug, unfortunately it's
» » not it's a very complicated endocrinology nightmare.
»
» Hi~Not sure if you saw it but I posted a link to that other book by Dr.
» Redmond back under 'miniturisation' where I discussed it...it's on Amazon.
Thanks TC. I looked at the contents but I felt that most of it was covered in the new book plus there's more information in the new book regarding the WHI study so I'll stick with what I have. Thank you very much of the information though.
delilah is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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