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Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair (Propecia, Finasteride for Women)

posted by eb, 14.10.2007, 12:19
(edited by eb on 14.10.2007, 12:26)

Hi Lisa. Glad to hear from you again but sorry it has to be here.

I am sad to hear you aren't improving on your regimen. I thought you had seen some initial improvement per the Proscar?

First, I'm not a doctor, and everything I'm theorizing on these boards is from my own head after reading medical journals, so take what I say with a big grain of salt. On the other hand, I'm also a 27 year old woman with moderate (heading rapidly to severe) AGA, which means I'm doing everything I can to fight this which necessarily includes reading all I can and trying to fill in the gaps where medical science hasn't.

OK, let me walk thru this reasoning and you can tell me if it makes sense to you.

Most important thing to recognize is everyone's different. Just because Proscar works for one woman doesn't mean it will work for another. The reason I have very little facial/body hair is because I am east Asian (it's a racial thing). We have less body hair naturally. I bring that up because I have every clinical symptom of androgen sensitivity in the book, EXCEPT for hirsutism. (Actually I do now have some facial hair, and back-of-the-hand hair, due to Rogaine foam. But not naturally.)

I make the link between Propecia and lack of body hair because as you know, Propecia blocks only the 5AR-2 (present in hair follicles), and does nothing to inhibit 5AR-1 (present in sebaceous glands and sweat glands). 5AR being of course the substance that converts less potent androgens such as T and DHEAS to DHT. I do have very low serum levels of 3AG (3 alpha glucuronide, the active metabolite of 5AR), which is why I'm so hesitant to try 5AR inhibitors. There are rare, but existent accounts of men who took Propecia and developed a reflex hyperandrogenic effect to it. Formerly they did not have androgen sensitivity problems such as oily skin, severe hair loss etc. but developed it after taking Proscar. (they took Proscar to "fend off" MPB or were thinning VERY slightly)

My mom for example has very advanced AGA (cannot leave house w/o topper) and she has NO body hair. Not the best candidate for Propecia then.

Maybe this happens because Proscar raises scalp T (and sometimes serum T) because the T that is supposed to be converted to DHT remains T. Possibly, more androgen receptors on the scalp as a result. Also, more T to be converted to DHT via the other type of 5AR, 5AR-1. Because Proscar blocks just one type of the 5AR enzyme. It is like a "rebound" effect. Cut off one portal to DHT and the other one gets flooded. Female AGA is a thousand times more complex than male AGA (although DHT and immunologic factors are still the basic culprits) and they haven't even figured out male AGA yet.

I have heard of women benefitting from Proscar but not many; the majority of them have mentioned it got rid of their chin hairs too, suggesting 5AR-2 activity that is successfully blocked by Proscar. It is also used to treat hirsutism. But it may not be the best thing for female AGA if you show no hirsutism.

I do know reflex hyperandrogenicity exists but it is R-A-R-E. For this reason I don't want to post this all over the boards. There's some question as to whether it even happens to women at all.

Finally, no one really knows what happens at the peripheral level. For non-PCOS AGA, serum lab values tell you only part of the story.

Let me know if that makes sense. I am not saying it is correct. I hope I didn't confuse you further!

The lab test for 5AR activity is 3 alpha glucuronide. Mine was 50 or something on a lab range of 35-500.

But even more helpful may be the DHT metabolite test:
5α-androstan-3β, 17β-diol (3(3-diol)

I have not had the latter as it took a lot of begging to even get the former, but I'd be so curious to know. Both very rare tests.

Others should feel free to disagree with me. I wish I could figure this out and save my own hair too.

Best.

» EB,
»
» I was reading through one of your older posts (dated 9/9/07) in which you
» mentioned that you have practically no facial and body hair "suggesting
» that Propecia alone would do more harm than good (reflex
» hyperandrogenicity)..."
»
» I too have very little facial and body hair and have been taking spiro (25
» mg) for over 1 year and 2.5 Proscar since December 2006. I am still
» shedding about 100-150 hairs daily with very little regrowth.
»
» Can you please explain to me why under these conditions finesteride would
» do more harm than good? I am wondering if that is impeding my
» treatment/recovery and why my internist and endo haven't made that
» connection.
»
» Thanks so much.


eb is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Complete thread:

• Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - LisaS, 13.10.2007, 13:12
  • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - LisaS, 13.10.2007, 13:14
  • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - eb, 14.10.2007, 12:19
    • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - LisaS, 14.10.2007, 15:50
      • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - eb, 14.10.2007, 17:59
        • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - delilah, 14.10.2007, 19:17
          • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - eb, 16.10.2007, 11:28
            • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - alli, 16.10.2007, 16:37
              • alli - eb, 22.10.2007, 09:54
            • Question for EB (and/or Holly and V) re Body Hair - delilah, 16.10.2007, 18:31
              • To Delilah and eb - Fashiongal, 17.10.2007, 14:16