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Response to Julie....long post warning! (Propecia, Finasteride for Women)

posted by Holly, 25.10.2007, 23:11
(edited by Holly on 25.10.2007, 23:25)

ť ť ť Another question.....spiro or bcp? opinions please! (I don't want to
ť ť ť combine the two though)
ť ť
ť ť Hi Julie...Unfortunately, not one of us on these boards can
ť definitively
ť ť answer that question for you since we don't know exactly the hormonal
ť ť composition of your particular physicality, and the physicians probably
ť ť don't either. The reason certain rx's work for some and other rx's
ť work
ť ť for others is because w/ females, there are too many variables which
ť come
ť ť into play to contribute to our hl. I will post (or try to) an
ť ť endocrinological report on female hyperandrogenism (which also includes
ť ť sensitivity to said androgens w/out any other signs of virilism) which
ť ť explains how many different androgens can be primarily responsible for
ť the
ť ť conditions of hyperandrogenism (including AGA, PCOS, etc.) and one
ť can't
ť ť always be certain whether the source of the most androgens is
ť originating
ť ť from the ovaries (which also produce T), the adrenals, or other glands.
ť
ť ť Therefore, for ex., if a woman's main source of T is her ovaries, the
ť pill
ť ť will help her because it shuts down the ovaries and infuses the body
ť with
ť ť the artificial E and P (not T) thereby diminishing the amount of T in
ť her
ť ť system. This is one reason many women gain weight on certain pills, if
ť ť they have a fair amount of T being produced in the ovaries and suddenly
ť on
ť ť the pill that T is not present. However, if a women doesn't have a lot
ť of
ť ť T produced by her ovaries, but instead has her T mostly supplied by the
ť ť adrenals, she may not see any benefit from the pill and indeed can have
ť ť her situation exacerbated because then the adrenals will work
ť double-time
ť ť to make up extra T when the body senses one of its endocrine suppliers
ť ť (the ovaries) has been shut down.
ť
ť Ahhhggggg! I didn't know the adrenals would compensate for ovarian shut
ť down, although that makes sense, given that upregulation is definitely a
ť very real phenomenon (again, it doesn't happen to all women, and seems to
ť happen to the rare unfortunate non-PCOS woman only). Perhaps that's why in
ť the past I had decreased acne on the Pill, but the sebum was every bit as
ť extreme on as off the Pill. I remember being confused as to why the Pill
ť didn't diminish my oil one bit, though my skin was clearer and smoother.
ť
ť Fashiongal, please post the studies if you can find them again. Thanks for
ť this info as I was close to getting back on the Pill, even though I think
ť my adrenals are responsible for the bulk of this mess (my ovaries produce
ť very little T). But I thought the Pill would lower adrenal androgens
ť also?
ť
ť However, we usually don't know exactly:
ť ť a) all of the components factoring in to our own individual hl
ť etiology,
ť ť and b) the exact amount of certain hormones produced by all of the
ť glands
ť ť to tell us which hormones to tweak and how much!
ť ť
ť ť Therefore, this is why our situation is so frustrating because our dx
ť and
ť ť rx are frequently hit-or-miss. This is ALSO why no one should have
ť ť dogmatic statements on these boards of "what will definitely help" and
ť ť "what one should definitely do." Sometimes you do just have to weigh
ť the
ť ť risk/benefit and dive in, but it is always beneficial to do one's OWN
ť ť research on Google of MEDICAL articles because all of us on these
ť boards,
ť ť while well-intentioned and many of us are moderately knowledgeable, are
ť ť lay people and we can only weigh in w/ our own fallible opinions and
ť ť experiences. I will post imminently w/ the link if I can to that
ť ť article.
ť ť
ť ť Until then, Julie, good luck to you, girl....FG ;-)

Hey FG and EB,

Please note!!: Two of my endos told me that bcps do also suppress adrenal production via a complicated negative feedback mechanism involving the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal and gonadal axis. As does other estrogen therapies. I most definitely found it to be the case with me when my DHEA-S level went from 304 to 135 in a few months on bcps. (I AM NOT advocating anyone going on bcps, just want to provide accurate info about the pathways involved. Below are 2 snippets.

Oral contraceptives can be effective in treating hirsutism and acne in women with or without PCOS. Combination OCs suppress ovarian, adrenal, and peripheral androgen metabolism, resulting in a net reduction in free testosterone.11-13 In addition, estrogen increases hepatic production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), which binds androgens and reduces their bioavailability. OCs also inhibit 5?-reductase in the skin, resulting in lower levels of dihydro-testosterone.14

Oral Contraceptive Pills _Estrogen and progestin are more effective in combination than either agent is alone in suppressing LH-dependent hyperandrogenemia. Although at least 50 mug ethinyl estradiol (EE) or the equivalent is required to suppress LH, lower estrogen levels (approximately 35 mug EE) can increase serum SHBG and decrease ACTH-dependent adrenal DHEAS production (Wild et al, 1983). Thus, low-dose oral contraceptive pills (30 to 35 mug EE) are usually effective in controlling hirsutism and acne (see Fig. 15-8) . Contraceptive pills also induce cyclic uterine withdrawal bleeding and provide contraception.

Holly is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Post reply

Complete thread:

Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - julie1977, 20.10.2007, 07:48
- Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - delilah, 20.10.2007, 11:12
  - Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - V, 20.10.2007, 13:11
    - Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - julie1977, 20.10.2007, 13:33
      - Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - V, 20.10.2007, 15:42
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - delilah, 20.10.2007, 20:02
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - julie1977, 21.10.2007, 13:30
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - delilah, 21.10.2007, 15:06
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - Holly, 21.10.2007, 15:39
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - delilah, 22.10.2007, 00:13
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - V, 22.10.2007, 09:35
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - delilah, 22.10.2007, 10:34
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - Sadie, 22.10.2007, 13:24
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - julie1977, 22.10.2007, 13:51
        Cyproterone Acetate is an antiandrogen - Fashiongal, 22.10.2007, 13:55
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - Sadie, 22.10.2007, 13:56
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - lina, 22.10.2007, 15:25
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - Holly, 22.10.2007, 15:04
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - julie1977, 22.10.2007, 15:23
        julie1977 - eb, 22.10.2007, 17:10
        Response to Julie....long post warning! - Fashiongal, 23.10.2007, 15:34
        Response to Julie....long post warning! - eb, 25.10.2007, 12:37
        Response to Julie....long post warning! - Holly, 25.10.2007, 23:11
        Thanks, Holly! - Fashiongal, 26.10.2007, 17:50
        Response to eb - Fashiongal, 26.10.2007, 17:52
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - V, 22.10.2007, 15:40
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - delilah, 22.10.2007, 17:33
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - delilah, 22.10.2007, 17:34
        Propecia or Spiro - which do you think is more effective? - julie1977, 24.10.2007, 11:46
        Better to break it up into two even doses - Fashiongal, 24.10.2007, 22:51
        Better to break it up into two even doses - julie1977, 25.10.2007, 11:45
        Response to Julie - Fashiongal, 28.10.2007, 23:49
        FG - eb, 29.10.2007, 10:11
        FG - LisaS, 30.10.2007, 00:19
        Response to LisaS from FG - Fashiongal, 30.10.2007, 17:51
        Response to LisaS from FG - LisaS, 31.10.2007, 01:27
        I meant to say response to FG from LisaS - LisaS, 31.10.2007, 01:28
        Response to LisaS from FG - 2nd Time! - Fashiongal, 06.11.2007, 18:09
        FG and Lisa S - eb, 01.11.2007, 16:18
        Response to eb - 2nd Time! - Fashiongal, 06.11.2007, 18:17
        FG - Fashiongal, 30.10.2007, 17:40
        Oops!! Above post should read: Response to eb! - Fashiongal, 30.10.2007, 17:54

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Response to Julie....long post warning! (Propecia, Finasteride for Women)