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HAIR MULTIPLICATION PROCEDURES
DR. GHO

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SUMMARY FROM FORUM # 1
(Summary from Forum # 2 appended to the end of Summary from Forum # 1)

Re: Gho ho

From: Pavlo
Date: 05 Sep 1999
Time: 12:58:15
Remote Name: ras4-p57.tlv.netvision.net.il

Comments

Hi Joe
This is where you are wrong it's not too good to be true this treatment if it comes true will have alot of limitation. 1.It will cost alot of money 20-30k$ and can be even 50k$ caise youl have to pay for at least two subject the place who will multiply your hair and the doctor that will put the harvest on your head. 2. Time to result-it can take several months for the hair to multiply for the desired amount and sevral months for the hair to grow on your head 3.Density problem i dont believe that back density could be ahceived a 100 hair per 1cm^2 is likely but unlike regular hair transplant it will be all over the head with uniform density much better than regular hair transplant but definetly not perfect

So it's not a "take pill tonight have athick full head of hairs in the morning" treatment that's why we can believe it. It's quite good to be done but not to good to be true

bye

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Re: Gho ho

From: John M
Date: 05 Sep 1999
Time: 13:15:40
Remote Name: 199.105.68.234

Comments

First off, the procedure is supposed to be cheaper than traditional transplants. Maybe not off the bat, but when it's widely available. Even when it's first out it'll cost around $10,000. I think Even $20,000 is well worth it if the hair stays in for life, and gives you a full head of hair which it will, by the way. True, maybe it won't be as dense as the donor area of the head, but it'll still be dense enough where any normal human being won't be able to tell the difference at all. Some people have hair that's 2.0 mm2 apart, and some have 2.5 mm2. Does that mean that one person has a full head of hair and the other doesnt? Nope.

Re: costs of hair multiplication

From: Todd
Date: 30 Nov 1999
Time: 23:42:35
Remote Name: spider-tq061.proxy.aol.com


Comments

Just out of curiosity- how much do some of you guys think this procedure will cost if you multiplied, say, 100 hairs and then had them transplanted?

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Costs has to do more with time.

From: Lazmataz
Date: 01 Dec 1999
Time: 05:24:50
Remote Name: amadeus.amadeuslink.com


Comments

I think the issue with cost has to do more with the amount of time involved injecting hairs into the scalp. If they are able to multiply as many hairs as you like, to create a full head of hair. Could you imagine the amount of time and labor involved for the doctors to achieve the amount of hair you desire. I have a feeling, that this is what is causing Dr. Gho to delay in his public anouncements. He is probably trying do develop some sort of procedure or maybe the tools needed to reduce the time involved to inject the thousands of hairs.

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Re: Costs has to do more with time.

From: Joshua
Date: 01 Dec 1999
Time: 07:04:50
Remote Name: h57i11.delphi.afb.lu.se


Comments

If I'm not wrong someone who contacted the clinic was told that the work done when implanting the haircells wasn't that costly, since it's much easier injecting haircells with a needle, than drilling holes and putting disected hairfollicles in them. However the cost of multiplying the haircells could be alot higher. This all depends on how much $$$ the Gho clinic will charge for doing the job. They will probably have a patent, so it's up to them to set the optimum price to maximize revenues.... this doesn't necessarily mean a very high price, since that would make fewer potential patients that can afford it.

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Re: Costs has to do more with time.

From: Alistair
Date: 01 Dec 1999
Time: 15:56:39
Remote Name: du-027-0154.claranet.co.uk


Comments

When it first comes out it will be expensive as it will be marketed at movie stars and millionnaires in general. After that the price will drop for us "lesser mortals" That's my opinion anyway. Alistair

hair multiplication cost / DVD prices?

From: Andy - Uk
Date: 06 Dec 1999
Time: 02:37:17
Remote Name: host194-75-255-197.btinternet.com


Comments

Remember when VCR's came out and were for the preserve of the rich? Well now the manufacturers know that the success of new technlolgy which is DVD is reliant on competeing with VCR prices and thats why DVD is so cheap (unlike Laserdisc-osaur) to what it could have been had VCR not been around. The point is this. Dr Gho is fully aware that the 21st Century public will not tolerate massive costs for his procedure - now that hair transplants - though not as effective- are being offered a special rates and discounts - like VCR.With all the talk of Glaxo, gene therapy etc. the hair loss industry is gearing up for it's own FORMAT WAR which Gho cannot afford to lose which by the way he wont. Costs are relative, For example my transplant cost me £5000 for two sessions - each 4 hours long. My payment had to pay for the actual doctor, her assistant and a backroom of technicians. Then there are the materials, the rent of the surgery etc. Gho's method doesn't require such personnel and clearly will not take four hours. What we will be paying for will be petri-dish rental after hair cell extraction. Putting the new hair back in could be down by any trained doctor or even a florist. Gho told me some time back that one of his main priorities was to DRAMATICALY cut costs and that the procedure would be liscenced out. - Regards

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Re: hair multiplication cost / DVD prices?

From: Joshua
Date: 06 Dec 1999
Time: 03:27:41
Remote Name: h57i11.delphi.afb.lu.se


Comments

Interesting reasoning, but I don't think we can see this as a format war. Since the success of DVD/VCR depends on the number of people adopting the standard, it will be extremely important to make sure the technology is widely spread which makes sure that there will be movies available, and at low prices. However when it comes to dealing with hairloss, you don't have to make sure a certain procedure is chosen by a large number of people for it to be successful. If I choose to get a procedure done with the Gho method, the results will be just as good if 1000 others do so, or if 1,000,000 do so. And since the procedure is pretty labour intensive, there probably won't be much cost savings in economies of scale due to process automation etc. which can be done in the electronics industry. But who knows... we all have to wait and see... ;)

Re: Mass Market

From: TK421
Date: 04 Dec 1999
Time: 16:19:50
Remote Name: midasclass13.library.mcgill.ca


Comments

We're living in the age of mass market, remember? The age of Wal-mart, McDonalds and friends. There is NO way this thing will be expensive for so long. Remember that "expensive" is only very relative. If you are nearly bald and want ALL of your hair back, then you'l have to leave an arm or two in the deal. Remember that conventionnal transplants work in the few thousands (in no of hairs...) If this thing gives you less than 10000 haoirs, the price could be somewhat reasonable. If you need something like 50 000, then... you'll have to do it gradually, I'm afraid. And I don't think that Gho is working on fully restoring hair right now. If he can multiply the amount of inserted hairs by 3 or 4 without really affecting the donor area, then it's a miracle indeed.

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Re: Mass Market

From: Joshua
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 05:28:10
Remote Name: h57i11.delphi.afb.lu.se

Comments

Well, most people are born with 50,000-100,000 hairfollicles on their head. Now even if you're a NW6/7 you have some of that left. Getting 50,000 new hairfollicles would be like getting a new really thick teenage hairdo. Something like 10,000-25,000 would probably be enough for most people to get a "full head of hair". Ofcourse, if you've got the money you can always add more! Maybe this will be like a new kind of status-symbol in the future, like fancy cars are today.... ;)

But if I'm not wrong, in the original english translation of the article about Dr Gho he said that this method would be cheaper than "normal" hairtransplants. I hope he's right.

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Re: Mass Market

From: david
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 06:19:51
Remote Name: proxy-327.public.rwc.webtv.net


Comments

Just a thought or two, if hair multiplication will offer an endless supply of donor hairs and hopefully greater density than traditional hair transplants I think it is likely that it will be extremely expensive in the beginning. A better method will warrant a higher price tag. Once the group of "I'll pay any price" patients has subsided, then the price will drop accordingly, just like VCRs, cell phones and computers have. This is the point in time where the number of patients increases dramatically! Also, as time goes by the procedure will likely improve. Those willing to wait a little longer will have had an opportunity to learn about any possible downsides or optimistically, receive better results at a fairer price.

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Re: Mass Market

From: Joshua
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 07:04:47
Remote Name: h57i11.delphi.afb.lu.se


Comments

Sure, but the question is how long you're willing to wait. It seems like most people here are pretty young, and losing another 4-5 years while waiting for a better procedure and price can be pretty tough when you're in your twenties. So how long are all of you going to wait before you get the procedure done, and why?

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Re: Mass Market

From: david
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 09:53:26
Remote Name: proxy-612.public.rwc.webtv.net


Comments

Joshua, I don't think anyone wants to lose their hair at any age and you're right, the younger you are the more difficult it is. I didn't suggest that anyone waits a long time to have the procedure done, I just offered my own thoughts on the matter. You asked how long everyone will wait and why. I'd have to know a few things first...How much will it cost? Will I save thousands of dollars by waiting a year or two? If that was the case sure I'd wait and maybe sport a shaved head for a while instead. Will the procedure be permanent or will the hairs only live for a year or two? If this was the case and I hope not, would any scarring be visible? Could I afford to have the hairs replaced? And are the hairs the same thickness as healthy hairs or are they just fine or thin? These are things that run through my mind. By waiting I'd obtain some valuable information. It sure would be nice to have the hair I had as a teenager again but I'd have to find more out first. -David.

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Re: Mass Market

From: Dave
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 16:15:15
Remote Name: sdu159-241.ppp.algonet.se


Comments

When it becomes available and if the results you get are good, no scarring and good density and good hair thickness, I would not hesitate to have the procedure done, no matter what the cost would be. I'm not a millioner (yet!) but this is affecting my life extremely much. very depressed. I would be on a plane to holland within a week

Re: Joshua -The cost of 25,000 follicles.

From: Marquis
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 09:08:36
Remote Name: 1dyn46.wsn.casema.net


Comments

Joshua, you mentioned that 25,000 hair follicles will probably be satisfactory to the majority of us. I agree with you entirely.

However, how much do you think it will cost to have this number cultured and inserted into the head?

Some people suggest that mass-market pressures will eventually push prices down. The question is how long will it take for these pressures to bear fruit? God, I hope, that is treatment will not be the domain of playboy millionaires for many years (even 3 years is too much!)

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Re: Joshua -The cost of 25,000 follicles.

From: Joshua
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 09:51:34
Remote Name: h57i11.delphi.afb.lu.se


Comments

Well, we can only speculate about what the cost will be. However with this method the haircells are injected with a needle. With traditional methods the hairfollicles will first have to be disected under microscope and then inserted into holes that have to be drilled. To me it seems like the needle method must be many times faster. Also tools could probably me made that make a whole bunch of such neeedle sticks at a time (some kind of multi-needle device). Finally, from a recent report from some other doctor who performed a similiar procedure, but was way behind Dr Gho in his research, I read that several (approximately 5) hairs grew out from every place where the hair-matrix cells had been injected. My guess is therefore that this part of the procedure will not be very expensive. However, the other part, where the haircells are multiplied at the Gho-labs, it's pretty much up to Dr Gho to charge any price he wants to.

Although as I said before, Dr Gho himself said in the original article from the dutch newpaper that this procedure had the advantage of being cheaper than normal transplants. By that I guess he must mean the price per hair(follicle). I don't know what the current price per graft is for normal hairtranplants, but if you multiply that by the number of hairs you want, you ought to get some kind of upper cost limit... I hope!

Re: Market rules of supply & demand will decide cost

From: Marquis
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 10:52:48
Remote Name: cache-dh1.casema.net


Comments

If demand far outstrips supply, this procedure will be as expensive as BMW's. So lets hope the production lines won't have limited capacities. Also I hope the people behind the procedure, and I don't mean Dr. Gho himself, but the commercial arm of the venture don't turn out to be pigs. Let's hope there's some humanity behind this project.

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Re: Market rules of supply & demand will decide cost

From: Joshua
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 11:39:43
Remote Name: h57i11.delphi.afb.lu.se


Comments

Well Dr Gho have stated that he's aiming to have a protocol for the procedure that is so simple that it can be performed by any "normal" doctor. If that is the case it can be done pretty much anywhere, and the supply will be good... after all most doctors know how to use a needle... ;)

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Re: Market rules of supply & demand will decide cost

From: bill
Date: 09 Dec 1999
Time: 08:45:10
Remote Name: 207-90-152-168.pavenet.net


Comments

You are so right. Give up dreaming that the inventors have humanity running through them. Everything they do, now and when the procedure becomes available, will be motivated by greed. As was mentioned earlier, the cost will stay as high as the supply/ demand stays. We do not have to worry about the playboy millionaires or the Hollywood celebrities, etc., because that is only a drop in the bucket. What we do have to worry about is all the 20-somethings that would give up right testicle for it. As long as we have desperate people willing to pay anything, the cost will be exhorbitive. The inventors are not worried about getting the money from others - it will eventually come. But they only have 1 chance to rake in ridiculous amounts of money at first, which is exactly what they will do. The only way to stop this and have prices come down quickly is by not participating for a bit, in much the same way you have said no to current transplant procedures. Once there is not enough business for the hair transplant surgeons as a whole, you can bet that they will be hammering at the door for lower prices, etc. I, for one, think that the distribution will be in a very tight circle at first, maybe only in Holland for 6 months, then to tightly-controlled affiliates in other countries. So, I would ask everyone to have some control, and realize that hair is not the only thing that is in our head - we have a brain that defines who we are, and who we are willing to be controlled by.

SUMMARY FROM FORUM # 2

Re: COST ?

From: todd
Date: 30 Dec 1999
Time: 12:17:57
Remote Name: spider-to035.proxy.aol.com


Comments

no one in this group, who will have this procedure if its available in the near future will have a fat wallet for a long time to come- does anyone have any educated guesses as to how much this procedure would cost? im guessing maybe 30 to 40 thousand dollars.

Re: Some speculation about the cost

From: Bill
Date: 31 Dec 1999
Time: 08:29:29
Remote Name: 207-90-152-166.pavenet.net


Comments

Hi Jacko, Thanks for the info. I had never really contacted any hair transplant surgeons, so I didn't know they didn't do the whole procedure. I was also misinformed if this new procedure is merely injecting hair- type follicles. At least I can understand why current surgeons are fighting this, but in terms of trained people to do this procedure, regardless of what profession they come from, I do not think there will be a shortage. Depending on the price they want to charge, there will be a certain demand, and soon after a supply of professionals to meet that demand. I do believe the price will be high, because I fear that men in their 20's with severe balding will pay exorbitant rates. This is why I hope they will wait awhile. If they are not willing to get gouged, the prices will drop down to a reasonable level, and whatever the demand is, you can bet there will be a supply - just simple capitalism working like it was designed.

Re: Some fun speculation about cost

From: Morgan
Date: 02 Jan 2000
Time: 06:39:40
Remote Name: pppa8-resaleevansville1-5r7237.saturn.bbn.com


Comments

I've had procedures at Bosley and NHI, and in both clinics the doctors placed the grafts. The technicians numbed the scalp and divided the donor material into grafts/follicular units.

I'm not sure how the medical establishments work in different parts of the world, but I know that one's first thought is that it is unlikely that one will be able to have the procedure done in the US or Canada until long after its introduction to the world. That may not be the case, though. The good (and bad) thing about this sort of procedure is, because the technology is so new, it may not have the restrictions in place yet that we know delay the release of new drugs. It is possible that one can replicate and insert cells in the US without violating any established medical restrictions. If so, I think doctors like Lee and Proctor will be all over this like white on rice, not to mention hair transplant doctors!

Here's a possible scenario: You set up an appointment with NHI (or whoever). A beautiful young brunette numbs a small area of the scalp, and the doctor pops in, says "Hi!", removes an inch and a half of donor material (That should be PLENTY!), and stitches you up. You go home with a sore head and a $1000 (USD) hole in your bank account. Then, two months later, you return. The doctor pops his head in the door and says "Hi!", looks at your tiny donor scar, brags on his workmanship, then walks out. You never see him again for the rest of your life (hopefully). A beautiful young blonde lightly numbs the top of your head. She begins to give you a number of injections (there is no reason that the injections cannot be made by such assistants, so the doctor, to increase the size of his mansion, employs a small army of them, all simultaneously working on guys just like you). An hour after you walk into the building, you walk out. There is not so much as a Band-Aid on your head. In a year the hair has grown in. Your hair concerns are now restricted to worrying over whether it would be cooler to have a Highlander pony-tail, or go with the more conservative Pierce Brosnan "007" cut (you may want to continue taking Propecia/Proscar to keep from receding on the sides of your head).

Let's engage I some idle speculation. The subject of the cost of the procedure is coming up a lot lately. Remember, the original Gho article says "Besides, [the current] form of hair transplantation is very labour-intensive and therefore expensive…Gho says that his technique will be cheaper and more 'patient friendly'." The cost for the doctor to cut and stitch the tiny donor area, as well as to insert the new hair cells via syringe, should be very minimal. The $1000 "donor harvesting" fee I mentioned above is hyper-inflated, I would think. It shouldn't cost anywhere near that much. Likewise, for the doctor to charge $1000 to have the cells inserted would be excessively high. The real cost will probably be in the multiplication itself. But, for Gho to say that his method is cheaper than conventional procedures, he must be able to perform the multiplication relatively cheaply and quickly. Gho says the current hair transplant method is "labour-intensive". Since the initial extraction of donor hairs is the same, he must be expecting that the process of multiplying the hair cells and reinserting them will be much less time consuming than the slicing of the donor hairs into follicular units and reinserting them. I have had a few hair transplant procedures, and the current "slice and insert method" isn't that long a process. For Gho to expect to cut the labor back considerably, I would expect that the cell multiplication itself must not be a very "hands on" and time consuming process. That should translate into less expense, not the tens of thousands of dollars everyone keep estimating here. If I had the donor material, it would cost me between $17,500 and $35,000 (USD) for 7000 follicular units (which is approximately 17,500 hairs). Gho claims he is going to cut a good deal of the labor out of the transplant process, thus making the process cheaper. I would think that for him to see the cost difference to be a factor worth mentioning that he expects it to be at least 20% to 30% cheaper. This translates into a range of $12,250 to $28,000 for those 17,500 hairs.

Admittedly, most of this is speculation. But, so is what everyone else is doing. :^)

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Re: Some fun speculation about cost

From: Jacko
Date: 03 Jan 2000
Time: 11:55:46
Remote Name: net-ppp52.cc.uregina.ca


Comments

My opinion is that initially only a very few of potetially the best or more respected HT surgeons will undertake Gho's procedure assuming it produces good results. I liken this to, but certainly it cannot parallel, follicular units which have been done for several years. Many HT surgeons still do not preform follicular units even though it seems these are the grafts of choice when recreating the hairline. Some urgeons still butcher their patients with large pluggy grafts, scalp reductions etc. and have not even heard of follicular units. I'll state again, Gho's procedure will certainly not be avalable to your neighbourhood HT surgeon and you will probably have to travel to one of the few in the world who will initially preform the procedure if you want to have it done right away.

Jacko

Re: To GHO or not to GHO, that will be the question
After all, will I be able to afford the procedure ?

From: Marqui
Date: 13 Feb 2000
Time: 05:21:21
Remote Name: 4dyn73.dh.casema.net


Comments

Dear brothers in MPB,

I strongly believe that Gho's HM procedure will BE available in the not to distant future (i.e. before the end of the year). I can imagine, as I am writing this post, the glee, the relief, the expectation, the happiness to finally put this whole bitter episode behind us, once and for all!

We are all so happy, until something (almost as eqaully earth-shattering as the long-last availability of HM) dawns on the majority of us. That thing (should I call it dream-shattering) is the price. As I'm convinced of the imminent availability of HM, I find myself asking over and over again, "Will I be able to afford it?" or more to the point "How long would I have to wait before I have sufficient funds to pay for the operation?" - 2 years, 5 years, x years. "And in the mean time, do I freeze all other plans: the car, the house etc. etc." God knows if I decide to go ahead with all these plans, I'll probably have a very, very long wait to realize my other dream, that of ridding myself of the scurge of baldness while I'm still young. Before I become a middle-aged man to whom MPB no longer really matters!

Lately, everybody has been worrying about the time-span of HM availability, I think many of us should start worrying about the price.

What good is HM, if the majority of us can't afford the price for a good few years to come?

Pavlo (prince and hero of this forum), when you mentioned in one of your past posts that "all you want is to have the opportunity to spend a huge amount of money on HM when it becomes available". What do you mean by huge?

I honestly hope all my fears about the price prove to be unfounded, when Dr. Gho finally anounces to the world the earth-shattering news of HM. (if we're to believe Gho's words in the the original article, the HM-procedure should not be more expensive than present day hair transplants.)

best regards to all.

P.S. the writer is a middle-class engineer who resides and works in the beautiful Netherlands.

====================

Re: To GHO or not to GHO, that will be the question
After all, will I be able to afford the procedure ?

From: The Hair Loss Kid
Date: 18 Mar 2000
Time: 21:18:53
Remote Name: 143.arlington-26-27rs.va.dial-access.att.net


Comments

Hair multiplication will have to be made affordable. It will be made affordable, because there is no reason for them to put the "price point" so prohibitively high that only Donald Trump could afford it. Don't confuse the issue. Just because it's "high tech" and "cutting edge" doesn't mean the price has to be astronomical. They will price it at exactly the price that they can sell it to millions and make a killing. It won't force you to take a second mortgage on your house. It's only extraction of some cells (not a lot) from the hair follicles on the back of your head, culturing them in something like a Petri dish, and reinjecting them into your bald scalp. Big deal -- it's not rocket science, and not brain surgery. People think that just because a procedure is revolutionary and fulfills a longtime dream, that it is going to be unaffordable. Don't fret about this. My guess is that the price will eventually settle at around $3000 to $5000, and eventually, it'll probably go considerably lower. If they priced this at $15,000 or $20,000, how many men would spring for it? They wouldn't make a profit. Besides, the actual work involved isn't worth $15-20,000. Cell biologists and lab technicians culture cells every day, and this isn't much different.

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Re: To GHO or not to GHO, that will be the question
After all, will I be able to afford the procedure ?

From: Todd
Date: 14 Feb 2000
Time: 10:51:02
Remote Name: spider-th031.proxy.aol.com


Comments

I've heard of places where you can take out loans for plastic surgery for operations such as liposuction, boob jobs and facial procedures - however i have not heard of transplant loan operations- im sure their are some loan operators who would gladly give some people loans for this procedure once it becomes readily available- i think, when it comes out, the costs will be very high- much higher than a regular transplant simply because there are probably many kinks that need to be worked out and the newness of the whole thing- than maybe in a couple of years it will die down- and then a few years later, hair cloning might be an option for those that really have limited donor hair like myself- the hair on top of my head is actually thicker than the hair in the back of my head- figure that one out-

Click the following to go back to discussions on Hair Multiplication Procedure:
Dr. Gho's Hair Multiplication Procedure - forum # 1 of 3 (FULL - READ ONLY)
Dr. Gho's Hair Multiplication Procedure - forum # 2 of 3 (FULL - READ ONLY)
Dr. Gho's Hair Multiplication Procedure - forum # 3 of 3 (CURRENT)

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