Dr. Gho - Hair Multiplication

				Free Ads
				Shop

SUMMARY FROM FORUM # 1
(Summary from Forum # 2 appended to the end of Summary from Forum # 1)

RE: Find subjects in the study

From: Dan
Date: 24 Nov 1999
Time: 13:29:07
Remote Name: we-24-24-130-30.we.mediaone.net

Comments

If we could somehow organize a way for someone located near Gho to look for people actually participating in the study it would be a great help. I am sure that there are people in the study going to Gho's office regulary. One could find one of these people and befriend them by saying they are thinking of being in the too. These people are most likely under orders from Gho not to speak to anyone about this but possibly they could be cracked. They could not only speak for themselves but possibly for others in the study as well.

Now it would just be a matter of finding someone to go there and try to befriend a subject. This would be a major help and put an end to all this wondering and speculating.

From: Steven
Date: 24 Nov 1999
Time: 13:56:38
Remote Name: dynaisdn-158.knoware.nl

Comments

Working on it.

Greeting Steven (Holland)

RE: Visit the Gho clinic

From: steven
Date: 01 Dec 1999
Time: 16:19:54
Remote Name: dynaisdna9-117.knoware.nl

Comments

This message is meant for the people who want to visit the Gho clinic. Because i live in Holland i wanted to see this clinic. So i went without any appointment to Maastricht. Result : This Gho clinic is stationed on a rather high security terrain. I was impossible for me to get even through the gate. So for all the guys planning to go there,i wish them the best luck, but i believe your trip will have NO effect.

Steven

RE: Visit the Gho clinic

From: D
Date: 02 Dec 1999
Time: 01:59:20
Remote Name: ecw.eurocontrol.be

Comments

Steven,

I am a liitle miffed by your previous post. I was there in Maastricht early April and I had no problem walking straight up to the door, into the reception, past the secretary and actually I could have walked into Dr. Gho's office (if I knew which one it was!). Things may have changed over the last few months and perhaps due to the increased publicity things have taken on a higher security presence. Are you sure you visited the correct place?. Thanks. D

RE: Visit the Gho clinic

From: steven
Date: 02 Dec 1999
Time: 09:39:18
Remote Name: dynaisdna10-152.knoware.nl

Comments

Brouwerstraat 100

RE: Visit the Gho clinic

From:
Date: 03 Dec 1999
Time: 04:14:30
Remote Name: ecw.eurocontrol.be

Comments

Becanusstraaat 17

RE: Visit the Gho clinic

From: Steven
Date: 03 Dec 1999
Time: 13:23:28
Remote Name: dynaisdna10-238.knoware.nl

Comments

Dear Belgian friend,

I have been tracking the adres you gave but at this place the only is a dermatologist. If i match my adres with the phone number of Gho, my Info i OK, perhaps he moved, but the adress you gave is old or Wrong

RE: Hair multiplication already in the US???

From: TK421
Date: 03 Dec 1999
Time: 10:01:43
Remote Name: midasclass2.library.mcgill.ca

Comments

Guys! Listen to that!

Last summer, I read in my TV Guide that there was a special program on TLC about hair transplant surgery. I saw the actual show, and it consisted on the standard butcher...er, operation, leaving the guy somewhat unhappy with the final results. The show started with the guy asking his friend to kiss his baldspot goodbye... wll, he still had his baldpot at the end of the show...

But that is not my point. The description of the show in the TV Guide described a very different procedure. They said: Dr (don't remember the name...) from (Every? Ebeny? something like that...) University will implant hairs of 10 inches long, that have been cultured in laboratory, in the scalp of a bald man". Woah! What's that? Anybody knows about this university? The fact that the TVguide had this written is simply too weird. This man MUST exist, these people just could not have made it up. Perhaps we should contact TLC... Perhaps the project is secret and the show was not aired... Sherlock Holmes is near, I hope. Let's all hit our keyboards and find the truth! BTW, ever noticed that David Duchovney had started to lose his full hairline (when he was at Charlie Roses's show), and is now back to normal? Do aliens lose their hair? Does it have anything to do with how they can put caramel INSIDE the Caramilk? Hmm...

RE: Hair multiplication already in the US???

From: Dan
Date: 03 Dec 1999
Time: 11:51:45
Remote Name: we-24-24-130-30.we.mediaone.net

Comments

Maybe it was Emory Medical University in Atlanta, Georgia

RE: Open Letter To Dr. Gho- Scarring Problem - Need Help

From: HairBeBack@aol.com
Date: 05 Dec 1999
Time: 13:50:43
Remote Name: spider-tn063.proxy.aol.com

Comments

Dear Dr. Gho,

I have made innumerable attempts to reach you via telephone and Fax, but since I have been unsuccessful to date in contacting you, I have posted this message here. ( I apologize to all other readers for taking up space on this thread).

Having first experienced the onset of MPB at the age of 21, I have tried desperately (and expensively) for the past 18 years to correct this life altering problem. No, it is not life threatening, but anyone who has gone through what I have knows it is like living a nightmare. It robs you of your self-image, lowers your confidence level and creates an overall feeling of desperation that is difficult to controll. It is not just about looking good, it is also about losing a part of you...your most easily identifiable characteristic.

I have already tried:

Polysorbate 60 and 80

Minoxidil 2% and 5% (in fact I was one of Dr. Lewenberg's first patients in 1984 when he sold ground up loniten tablets in solution for $75-$100 prior to FDA approval in the USA.)

Proscar/Propecia

Spironolactone

Saw Palmetto/Green Tea

Xandrox

Trichomin

Two Ht megasessions at the offices of two different HT doctors. Unfortunately,I have suffered major donor area scarring and despite having spent over $20,000 on these procedures, I still do not have an adequate hairline or sufficient overall coverage and the scarring has truly disfigured me. It is difficult to conceal and there is presently no medical method available that can correct the extent of the scarring. This is not my opinion, but that of several noted Ht doctors in the USA. I am ashamed to admit that I use a colored cream each day to cover these scars.

Since I know I am not alone in this suffering, and that many other young mens' lives have also been ruined and negatively affected by similar problems, I respectfully request your help not just personally, but also for the good of others who have similar problems with scarring and unsuccessful ht procedures with less than acceptable cosmetic outcomes.

Dr. Gho,I am asking to be included in your ongoing studies as soon as possible. I do not know if you have been implanting cells into scar tissue, but I am providing you with the opportunity to do so.

Of course, I am willing to compensate you for including me in these studies. As a resident of the USA, I also understand I must travel to the Netherlands for this potential treatment.

I will respect your decision no matter what as I imagine there must be many others who are asking for similar assistance from you. However, I can assure you that NO ONE will be more grateful than I for the unique opportunity to be helped... and to help pave the way for others who have suffered and are suffering from similar problems.

Again, I apologize to other readers of this thread for posting this personal letter and I hope it does not offend anyone as being too self-serving. It's just that after 18 years of emotional stress, I am desperate......and sorry younger guys....as you can see it does not neccessarily get any easier with time.

Dr. Gho. I will await your reply and my dedicated e-mail address is HairBeBack@aol.com

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Ps: Other than this problem, my life is pretty good. I have a lot to be thankful for.

RE: Build Gho a website!

From: Morgan
Date: 07 Dec 1999
Time: 13:24:56
Remote Name: pm10-s11-tier1.evansville.net

Comments

I think it would be great if someone offered to build a website for Gho, at no cost. As someone has noted, having a website is free. However, he may not have the time or want to pay someone to build and maintain it. If someone here has the skill and time to do it for Gho, it would both help him and possibly ensure that we are kept as abreast of things as he is willing to allow anyone to be.

The benefit to him is that, at no cost, he will have a website that will answer the many questions that curious people like us are continually pestering him with. That means more time for his work, and less distractions. He will have to figure on giving the site manager periodic updates, and those updates will have to be at least monthly to prevent the return of the bothersome phone calls. If he throws us a bone every month, I'm sure it will be a sufficient distraction to get us through another 30 days.

The possible reason he may not want to set up the site is that he may not want to allow other scientists to use anything he may reveal as a means to slip past him to the finish line and steal the profits and the glory. I can understand such a concern.

RE: Build Gho a website!

From: Bob
Date: 07 Dec 1999
Time: 14:20:30
Remote Name: spider-te053.proxy.aol.com

Comments

I called the clininc three times, but each time his answering device picked up my call, so finally i left a message for him and asked him to call me collect and that I'm not asking him to give me any information that would jeoperdizes his reaserch and this could decrease the number of callers to his clininc. So far no respond from Gho, but I'll wait couple more days before I try again. Perhaps Pavlo could contact him he seems to have an easier time contacting Gho than the rest of us. As far as Website goes, the website that is needed here is very easy to set-up because it's content is gonna be text only and no databases or anything complicated like that, so anybody can do it. I'll do it. It'll take me less than an hour to set it up, that's the easy part. The hard Part is to get Gho to send us the Information. By the way English is not my native tounge, so if you guys think that my english is not strong enough, then I can just set-up the site and one of you American born guys can proof read it and then we post it. What do you guys think about that?

Re: Doctors, stop being ignorant about DR. GHO!

From: Lazmataz
Date: 30 Dec 1999
Time: 08:31:15
Remote Name: 208.208.118.6

Comments

I've noticed that doctors are being almost intentionally being ignorant about the Dr. Gho procedure. Below is an interview with a respected hair transplant surgeon. Almost at the very end of the interview, the doctor is asked about hair culturing and when it could be a reality. If you notice the doctor does not deny the existence of such a procedure and yet also doesn't elaborate in his answer. It is almost as if they want to ignore it and make it go away. I have a funny feeling that these doctors that have been doing the same old transplant procedure for years, just don't want to learn a new procedure and keep on racking in the dough. If this is the case, it is our duty to stop paying for these rubbish barbarian procedures. The only way to make any changes in the status quo, is to hurt them where it hurts, in their big fat wallets.

Re: Doctors, stop being ignorant about DR. GHO!

From: Bill
Date: 30 Dec 1999
Time: 12:21:38
Remote Name: 207-90-152-154.pavenet.net

Comments

What is most ironic about all this is that in actuality, current hair transplant surgeons will benefit the most by this discovery. There are many, many, many men who would love to get some receding hairline fixed, but wouldn't consider using the techniques they have today. I am one of these. I, also, have most of my hair, so I can afford to wait a little more easily than others. But I think that these doctors will have more business without advertising than they do now with advertising. After all, the problem that is being solved is the removal of the donor area. We still need good surgeons to put the hair into the scalp. That part of the procedure isn't going to be any different, unless I am missing something. I don't see how making many hairs out of one hair changes the skill needed to put the hair back in the recipient site. But you can also see the same thing has happened several times with Hollywood. They are always the loudest screamers in terms of copyright protection whenever something new comes along, but everytime the new medium has made them wealthier.

Re: Doctors, stop being ignorant about DR. GHO!

From: Jacko
Date: 30 Dec 1999
Time: 13:48:14
Remote Name: agrgate.agr.ca

Comments

I've thought about this a lot and I think that several things will impede the rapid embrace of this proposed technology by hair transplant surgeons.

1. New technologies are rarely embraced initially even if they potentially are a great improvement to what is out there due to lack of education. I'll use myself as an example, when I started to loose my hair I went to my family the doctor for a prescription of minoxidil which was the only medication out for hair loss at that time (even I knew that). The guy never even heard of it and I had to educate him concerning the use and availability of this drug!

2. Hair transplant surgeons have invested a lot of time and money into training of themselves and their technicians. They certainly do not want to throw all this out on an untested (e.g. long term trials) technology or even if it was tested they wouldn't.

3. I don't know any hair tranplant surgeons who actually insert the donor hair into the recipient site. All they do is cut, remove and stitch up the donor area and leave the graft cutting and insertion to the technicians which is the bulk of the work. Removing the donor area (i.e.) 30 hairs probably does not need very specialized training and the injection of the new follicles will presumably be easier to do than inserting grafts. This will leave less work for the surgeon and possibly remove his presence from the procedure entirely because his special skills may not be needed.

4. There is certainly a fair share of butchers in this field who don't give a shit about patients and will do anything for money.

I don't think Dr. Gho's procedure will intitially produce an all encompasing revvolution among hair transplant surgeons. Perhaps 20 or so world wide will initially do the technique for the first 2-3 years so I would plan on saving your money and going to the Netherlands if you want this procedure done as sson as it comes out.

This is just my 2 cents. I am certainly not an expert on the subject.

Jacko

Re: Doctors, stop being ignorant about DR. GHO!

From: Bill
Date: 31 Dec 1999
Time: 08:29:29
Remote Name: 207-90-152-166.pavenet.net

Comments

Hi Jacko, Thanks for the info. I had never really contacted any hair transplant surgeons, so I didn't know they didn't do the whole procedure. I was also misinformed if this new procedure is merely injecting hair- type follicles. At least I can understand why current surgeons are fighting this, but in terms of trained people to do this procedure, regardless of what profession they come from, I do not think there will be a shortage. Depending on the price they want to charge, there will be a certain demand, and soon after a supply of professionals to meet that demand. I do believe the price will be high, because I fear that men in their 20's with severe balding will pay exorbitant rates. This is why I hope they will wait awhile. If they are not willing to get gouged, the prices will drop down to a reasonable level, and whatever the demand is, you can bet there will be a supply - just simple capitalism working like it was designed.

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet available......!!!!!!.....

From: Paul
Date: 06 Jan 2000
Time: 17:06:37
Remote Name: csdi2-proxy.service.digital.com

Comments

I've found on Medline an article on the same subject raised by Lazmatz on 29-12-99.(NEWS-Genetic cream (changes hair color & possibly will grow hair) . I'm posting this version 'cause it's very interesting to read the final comments by Dr. Yoon..... : >>>>>She also noted, "Gene therapy is used for very critical cases. But using it for cosmetic reasons..." would not be justified at this time.<<<<<

Obviously this Dr., a Woman who never probably experienced hairloss, considers hairloss not as a serious gentical genetical disfunction/desease afflicting several millions of people , but rather a cosmetic issue , futile as choosing a new make up, or the colour for lipstick & nails!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT'S THANKS TO THIS MENTALITY THAT NO REAL CURE FOR OUR PROBLEM IS YET AVAILABLE ..IN THE VERY YEAR 2000!. I suggest that We should all Email this Dr. and other Dr's involved in similar researches who happen to share the same enlightenining attitude of her, and remind them: of the high incidence of Hairloss disfunctions in the percentages of SUICIDES, DEPRESSION, UNSECURITY ,etc. I'm not debating the fact that Cancer and other life threatening deseases should be given priority in all researches, but it's about time that hairloss should stop bein' considered as something minor !!!! If that wasn't the predominant attitude of Researchers over the past 30 years, I seriously believe that a real cure would have already been found !

Paul

Correction of Point Mutation in Tyrosinase Gene Restores Pigmentation in Albino Mice --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Steve Mitchell

WESTPORT, Dec 29 (Reuters Health) - Scientists report in the January 2000 issue of Nature Biotechnology that a chimeric oligonucleotide applied to the skin of albino mice can correct a point mutation in the tyrosinase gene and restore hair pigmentation.

Dr. Kyonggeun Yoon of Thomas Jefferson University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and colleagues used a Tyr-A chimeric oligonucleotide to correct a point mutation in the mouse tyrosinase gene that is responsible for absence of pigmentation in albinos. Tyr-B, a chimeric oligonucleotide that contained the defective tyrosinase sequence, was used as a control.

The researchers complexed Tyr-A and Tyr-B with the transfection agent Cytofectin. The complexes were then applied topically for 3 days to the backs of albino BALB/c mice. In a separate experiment, the complexes were injected intradermally into the skin of albino mice on days 2, 5 and 32 after birth or days 2, 5, 32, and 62.

The team of researchers reports that "[b]oth topical application and intradermal injection of this oligonucleotide to albino BALB/c mouse skin resulted in dark pigmentation of several hairs in a localized area." Intradermal injection delivered Tyr-A more efficiently, they note.

Dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPA) staining of hair follicles in the treated skin confirmed the restoration of tyrosinase enzymatic activity. In addition, restriction fragment length polymorphism analysis and DNA sequencing from skin positive for DOPA staining and melanin synthesis indicated tyrosinase gene correction.

Dr. Yoon's group reports that the gene correction was maintained for 3 months after halting application of the Tyr-A chimeric oligonucleotide.

"[T]his strategy may be feasible for treating hereditary skin diseases resulting from point mutations," Dr. Yoon and colleagues say. They add that in order to propagate the gene correction permanently it will be necessary to correct the gene in epidermal stem cells.

Dr. Yoon told Reuters Health, "The efficiency of the technique has to improve a great deal and we need to improve the frequency of gene correction." She added, "If we can achieve high frequency then it opens up really large doors for treating skin diseases, both genetically based and acquired."

In an accompanying editorial, Dr. Robert Hoffman of AntiCancer, Inc., in San Diego, California, says that "[w]hat is needed now are methods to improve the efficiency of selectivity of delivery, and the durability of transgene expression."

"The efficiency has to be increased," Dr. Hoffman commented to Reuters Health. "Ex vivo gene transfer would be a good possibility of increasing efficiency of delivery and levels of expression," he said.

The study also may have implications for cosmetic gene therapy, Dr. Hoffman notes in his editorial. This would include hair pigment restoration for treating gray hair or restoring hair growth, he told Reuters Health.

Dr. Yoon commented, "Gray hair is not caused by genetic mutation, so that's not appropriate." She was doubtful that the technique would be useful in treating hair growth. "That is not genetically defined, and we'll probably have a lot of other environmental factors involved with that."

She also noted, "Gene therapy is used for very critical cases. But using it for cosmetic reasons..." would not be justified at this time.

Nature Biotech 2000;18:20-21,43-47.

Re: Lets email these doctors and show them we mean business.

From: Lazmataz
Date: 06 Jan 2000
Time: 18:20:43
Remote Name: tsmia4-69.gate.net

Comments

I agree, lets show these doctors that we are serious about this matter in the 21st century way of showing our mass protest, the email. They might not consider it a big deal to lose hair, but there are a lot of people who have had psychological disorders because of this. If someone could find that doctor's email, we can start by sending emails to let them know that we are united in our position. We won't stop until we get some sort of response or acknowledgement from them. I don't think that we need to have an organization, because I think this forum is enough to get us unified. So lets get those keys clicking, it's the only form of protest that you don't even have to get out of your sofa and miss the football game.

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet available......

From: Bill
Date: 06 Jan 2000
Time: 18:34:47
Remote Name: 207-90-152-181.pavenet.net

Comments

Hi Paul, Luckily, my hair loss is minor compared with most of you, but I still anxiously await the time I can fix it. I do hope you 20-somethings don't spend an arm and a leg for it, or they will continue to try and gouge us for it. I agree with you, Paul, on searching for hair loss. You know, a helluva lot more people live on cancer than die from it, and to be honest, I don't feel particularly sorry for most people who get it. Diseases such as cancer, diabetes, and cardiac problems are caused 99.99% of the time from our lifestyles and abuses, so the cure is already present. We can choose to live healthily or not, and suffer the consequences or not. To my knowledge, no one has figured out a way to prevent hair loss, nor do I think that the DHT affecting hair follicles is a cast-in-stone-correct evaluation of the cause of hair loss. But even if it is, there is nothing we can do to change that, with our current knowledge. So I am all for putting lots of research into it. Most all men suffer from some sort of balding eventually, and even most women have dramatic hair thinning eventually, so this is something that affects more people than any other type of problem we get. Just because it doesn't kill us, is no reason why we shouldn't put a lot of effort into it, especially today, when we are all judged by our looks. Quality of life is an important issue, and I really do feel sorry for 20-year-olds who have considerable baldness. I had a full head of hair until 35, and now, am a Norwood 2 or so, at 45. I can certainly sympathize with young guys who have lost a lot, so let's continue with the research. Kudos for your post.

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet available......

From: Bill
Date: 06 Jan 2000
Time: 22:41:44
Remote Name: 207-90-152-184.pavenet.net

Comments

Hi Jacko, You always have good responses, so obviously you are an intelligent person. Disease is a word that probably has a bit different connotation to everyone, but probably the most-used denotation of the word is "something that causes interference with a life-giving function of the body". By this definition, which I think is a good one, MPB is NOT a disease - it is an event that we do not prefer to happen, much like gaining weight, or getting wrinkles. I certainly never said I would prefer to get cancer moreso than going bald - only an idiot would say that. I simply stated that just because it is not a life-threatening problem, i.e. a disease, is not necessarily a good reason not to put a lot of effort into solving the problem. Don't confuse athletic ability with nutritional health. The ability to perform physically at the present, is by no means a clear signal that the body is nutritionally healthy. The foods that are present in our supermarkets, restaurants, etc. are completely sub-optimal in terms of attaining optimal health, and most athletes, while they may get products at their local health food stores, are still putting a lot of toxins into their bodies, that eventually cause these problems. The genetic part of the problem is simply what our bodies are prone to succumb to, IF AND ONLY IF it becomes out of balance, which is what happens when we eat the typical western diet, full of processed foods, too much refined sugar, too much saturated fat, etc. etc. There are exceptions to every rule, and there are some diseases that truly are genetic in nature - by that I mean there is not much a person can do to avoid it - like Lou Gehrig's disease, or the one that Arlo Guthrie is still waiting to see if he has, but if you look at the past history of occurrences of these 3 major killers, and look at the low incidence of it in our underdeveloped countries, it should become obvious that these diseases are basically caused by lifestyle abuse. It was not well-known by the average consumer 50 years ago that smoking caused lung cancer, but we are aware of it now. Anyways, this is getting a bit out-of-point with hair multiplication, so I want to wish PEACE to you as well, and hope we can all strive towards attaining some of our more superficial goals, such as replacing loss hair, so that we may strive towards using our time in more constructive ways.

Bill

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet available......

From: Jacko
Date: 07 Jan 2000
Time: 10:24:11
Remote Name: net-ppp2.cc.uregina.ca

Comments

Hi Bill,

I hope you didn't perceive my response as a flame, If so I apologize.

I do agree that many common diseases can be prevented with a good diet but even with a good one (ie. no grease, processed foods etc) you can't always avoid the toxins that are sprayed or injected in our food - and with GM foods, well that's another can of worms that people may regret.

A lot of these diseases have been around since antiquity so they are nothing new - just their increasing incidence. Don't forget that even baldness may be linked to diet as I believe there was a study done on Asian men (esp Japanese) linking the two. Before with a traditional diet there was a lack of baldness but now with a more North American grease, processed diet there is more balding occuring.

Jacko

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet available......

From: Bill
Date: 07 Jan 2000
Time: 11:14:08
Remote Name: 207-90-152-155.pavenet.net

Comments

Hi Jacko, No, I did not take it as a flame - the world would be a pretty dull place if everyone thought alike. It is interesting to me that you brought up Japanese. Do they suffer from less baldness ? They traditionally have less testosterone than whites and blacks. This may lead some credence that this is at least part of the problem, which I do believe it is. One only need look at all the bald heads among the bodybuilders to realize it must play some part. In fact, I think my low level is what saved most of my hair - my dad loss his hair early and he was a high-testosterone man. Some baldness does indeed come from diet deficiencies, and they pretty much know that graying of the hair, often stems from diet deficiencies. In these cases though, hair growth will usually improve immensely if the person starts to supply the body with what it is missing or eliminate the things that the body does not want - i.e. getting into chemical balance. I wish it were true that this is the case a lot of the time, but I don't think it is. While we may someday be able to ascertain the exact problem, I think it would be a major task to invent something that just affects the hair follicles without having any results on any other part of the body. I would hesitate to use Minoxidil, Propecia, etc. for health reasons even if they were successful. The mechanical procedure, such as surgery, does not carry any long-term price tag on it. Once the surgery is over, there are no lingering chemical effects. Your posts are always welcome. Take care.

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet available......

From: Jacko
Date: 06 Jan 2000
Time: 19:55:53
Remote Name: net-ppp24.cc.uregina.ca

Comments

I posted this on alt.baldspot just after Christmas and since the topic came up again I thought it might be worth posting it here too.

"Last night on the radio one particular medical show had a gene therapy researcher from UBC as a guest. While they did not talk about MPB specifically they did make a number of comments that were interesting. First of all the host asked about particular diseases can be cured now or in the near future which the researcher said diseases with one particular gene component would be the first and easiest to treat. Since it is believed that MPB may come from a variety of genetic sources this puts in doubt for a quick "cure" using this approach.

Second, the host mentioned how this technology could be used for negative reasons such as creating a "super race" by changing such features as shape of the nose, ear size etc. The researcher said there is an unsigned pact among researchers not to develop specific cosmetic treatments until an international agreement could be signed dealing with the ethics and where exactly the human race would like to take this. He did say there is work being done concerning the ethics of this so an agreement can be quickly made. He liken it to artificial ensemination and reproductive technologies that did not have such an agreement signed before the technology took hold. At first when these reproductive techniques were talked about many people did not want to go ahead with them as it was playing with being God but today nobody bats an eye at it. He did mention something would have to be done with genetic research because it is a vastly more powerful tool that is open for abuse. He also mentioned that in mice they can alter the genetic makeup so that altered genes would be passed onto offspring, and this technology is potentially available to humans as well but again this delves into potentially creating a "super race".

To me "cosmetic" sure sounded like treatments for MPB so I really doubt whether this treatment would be around for another 20 years"

The complete discussion can be found at http://www.remarq.com/transcript.asp?g=alt%2Ebaldspot&tn=10000003&sh=fe4ce4ac249aaeb5&str=gene+therapy&idx=0 there are a few decent replies to it where one guys disagrees with the time slot I give it (giving some good evidence to back up what he's saying).

Jacko

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet availabl...

From: Matt
Date: 19 Jan 2000
Time: 01:33:02
Remote Name: 24.sacramento-05-10rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net

Comments

Since MPB would likely be treated by applying the genes directly to the hair follicles, this would not be passed on to future generations. Making gene therapy hereditary would require the genome to be altered in the gonads. This would not happen with the proposed treatment for MPB.

Re: It's thanks to this attitude that no cure is yet availabl...

From: Matt
Date: 21 Jan 2000
Time: 21:48:11
Remote Name: 31.sacramento-06-07rs16rt.ca.dial-access.att.net

Comments

Another thing to remember is that a better understanding of the genetics of hair loss could also lead to better non-genetic treatments for hair loss. Consider that the mechanism of MPB is still largely unknown. Knowing exactly which genes are responsible for MPB gives us much better insight into the mechanism of MPB which could (and probably would) lead to better treatments. Even if they are not gene therapy based. Sure, they would probably have to be used daily. But $50 a month for a hair loss treatment that is truly effective would not be so bad.

Re: Leave Gho alone

From: Mike
Date: 26 Jan 2000
Time: 15:16:04
Remote Name: preview.oraclecanada.com

Comments

Hi everybody,

I've been following this discussion group almost since it began and have never posted anything... that is... until now.

I, like everyone else who follows this board, can't wait until the day when Dr. Gho's procedure becomes available. However, I've noticed a... how do I put this... a messaniac/doomsday-cult type of anticipation from many people posting to this discussion.

The fact of the matter is that despite what Gho tells Pavlo or Andy or anyone else, HIS TREATMENT IS NOT GOING TO BECOME AVAILABLE TILL IT IS AVAILABLE. Now, I don't want to offend anyone but I feel that many people on this board really don't understand what the last sentence means. What it means is that all of the speculation, getting frustrated, etc. is not going to make a difference to the "go live" date.

Another thing that needs to be cleared up is this bizarre idea that Dr. Gho owes it to us to tell us exactly when his procedure will be available, or what stage he's currently at, etc. Please read this carefully: Dr. Gho does not "OWE" anyone anything. He'll go public with the details of his work when he wants to and that's totally his perogative to do so.

The BEST possible course of action we can take is to let Pavlo or Andy (whichever, or both) contact him once every 8-12 weeks (yes I know it sounds like a long time) and they can gather whatever updates or new information Gho is willing to give out. Everyone else should just chill out and stop harrassing Gho.

Good luck to everyone.

Mike

Re: New Article on Gho

From: Bob
Date: 26 Jan 2000
Time: 20:09:43
Remote Name: spider-wm085.proxy.aol.com

Comments

I found this Article about Dr.Gho. This is the first time an american Doctor has recognized Dr.Gho Here is the Address http://www.hairscalplaserclininc.com/about.html#cloning

Re: Another article on gho

From: andy - hair loss warriors UK
Date: 27 Jan 2000
Time: 06:09:58
Remote Name: host212-140-202-89.btinteractive.net

Comments

go to www.drcotteril.com/faq.html#13

Re: Another article on gho

From: Lazmataz
Date: 27 Jan 2000
Time: 07:04:44
Remote Name: tsmia5-293.gate.net

Comments

The URL you gave on the article isn't working. Please make sure the address is correct.

It's exciting to see other doctors finally notice or acknoledge Dr. Gho's work.

If we do have to wait for the FDA to approve this procedure. I think the Netherlands will be the most visited place on earth passing Disney World. I hope their airports can handle it.

Thanks

Dear America

From: Andy - hair loss warriors ok
Date: 27 Jan 2000
Time: 06:29:18
Remote Name: host212-140-202-89.btinteractive.net

Comments

Dear all in the US

It just occured to me that we've had NO input as to who, in the States is closing in on hair multiplication. Seeing as the USA is always (nearly) at the forEfront of hi-tech I find it strange that nobody has bothered to suggest any American Doctors/ scientists who can help. I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS. Gho is in Holland, Jahoda here in the UK, Yoshito or whatever in Japan, Unger in Canada. Squat from you guys over the water.

There must be hundreds of bods from all over the States trying to get there.In colleges, Universities, Hospitals, Pharma Houses, Hollywood etc.

NO EXCUSES

Come on Guys what are your troops doing?

Please research this now

Regards, Europe

Dear America

From: Morgan
Date: 27 Jan 2000
Time: 08:02:40
Remote Name: pppa46-resaleevansville1-5r7237.saturn.bbn.com

Comments

Is that the sound of the second "shot heard round the world"?

Re: updating the masses,

From: jvm
Date: 31 Jan 2000
Time: 23:22:34
Remote Name: c2m73.dlup.shbtl.means.net

Comments

I agree...I actually posted this before but Gho should have the courtesy and business sense to personally post some type of update to [we] that are so desperately waiting for some (any) news. i check this site daily for news and this silent treatment is pretty cheesy. sure he is a buzy guy but i think he could find time to dictate a paragraph or 2.

I was ready to start the regular transplant routine with a very reputable doc but then i heard of this and have desided to wait. When i look at guys like nicklos cage and billy crystal, to some they may not be bad transplants, but to me they suck and you can definately tell they had them done...and these cats have got the dough to hire the best...I just hope he lets people know what is going on...if he thinks it is going to take 5 years, say so, that way people can prepare themselves rather than clinging on to the edge by their finger nails and being the recipients of sick jokes while looking like pathetic little weenies looking for a miracle that people like to take advantage of.

It only makes sense that there are several others that are conducting similar research...if i had the knowledge i would be. chances are they will all becoming out with their solutions over the next few years. if gho doesnt tell people what is going on i think he will have many people going in other directions.

TALK TO ME BIG GUY, TALK TO ME!

Re: Making an appointment with Gho (as a dermatalogical patient)

From: Jez
Date: 07 Feb 2000
Time: 11:20:10
Remote Name: finch-04.www-cache.demon.co.uk

Comments

Hi everyone,

Just to echo what everyone else has been saying - great work Pavlo and his Dutch friend.

As Gho, aside from his multiplication work, is a dermatologist, is it not possible for one of us (particularly Dutch/European posters) to make an appointment to see him as a private patient, and find out a bit more. It could be under a different pretext (eg. acne related), but it would be fascinating to see Gho face to face and maybe get the chance to ask him a few questions.

If Doctor Gho is not still practising dermatology, what about the other medical contacts Pavlo has in Holland?

Don't know what you all think of this - just an idea.

Re: Making an appointment with Gho (as a dermatalogical patient)

From: Lithium
Date: 07 Feb 2000
Time: 11:59:05
Remote Name: spider-wb063.proxy.aol.com

Comments

Jez- Your idea is a good one, however, I advise caution.

I don't think Dr. Gho is seeing patients (other than his research subjects.) But, if the doctor whom Pavlo was referring to could be approached, then he might be in the position to disclose pertinent information (especially to a paying patient.)

Perhaps Pavlo's friend could pay him a visit. That could be expensive, though, and he might draw suspicion if he (Pavlo's friend) isn't losing his hair.

I would strongly suggest that ONLY Pavlo and his friend in Holland approach any of Pavlo's contacts. We don't want to burn any bridges, so to speak. -- Lithium

Re: Making an appointment with Gho (as a dermatalogical patient)

From: Jez
Date: 07 Feb 2000
Time: 15:03:41
Remote Name: finch-04.www-cache.demon.co.uk

Comments

I totally agree - it would be best if Pavlo's friend were the one to see Gho/his associates directly.

I know in the UK it costs around £150 to see a dermatologist privately, but I suspect it is cheaper in Holland. It would seem a small price to pay for what could yield some very useful info, + I'm sure some of us on this newsgroup would be willing to contribute (I certainly would).

If anyone has the contact details of Pavlo's friend, or could contact him themselves, that would be good.

Good luck everyone

Re: AMERICAN HAIR TRANSPLANT LOBBY DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING HAIR CLONING RESEARCH

From: The Hair Loss Kid
Date: 18 Mar 2000
Time: 20:01:16
Remote Name: 143.arlington-26-27rs.va.dial-access.att.net

Comments

DOES ANYONE EVER WONDER WHY MOST OF THE PROMISING, CUTTING-EDGE RESEARCH ON TOPICS LIKE HAIR CLONING, GENE THERAPY, AND "HAIR MULTIPLICATION" IS BEING DONE OUTSIDE THE UNITED STATES? AFTER ALL, IF ONE LOOKED AT THINGS OBJECTIVELY AND SENSIBLY, IT WOULD BE EXPECTED THAT THE MOST ADVANCED RESEARCH ON HAIR LOSS WERE BEING CONDUCTED RIGHT HERE IN THE U.S. WE HAVE THE STRONGEST MEDICAL AND CELL BIOLOGY LABS IN THE WORLD, THE MOST INFORMED PHYSICIANS AND SCIENTISTS, AND THE BEST ACCESS TO ACADEMIC RESEARCH AND THE MOST ADVANCED TECHNOLOGY TO BE FOUND ANYWHERE. AMERICAN DOCTORS AND SCIENTISTS ARE AT THE FOREFRONT WHEN IT COMES TO AIDS AND CANCER RESEARCH, AND FINDING CURES FOR INNUMERABLE DISEASES. WHY, THEN, IS AMERICAN MEDICAL RESEARCH LAGGING FAR BEHIND THE WORK THAT IS BEING DONE IN OTHER COUNTRIES -- CANADA, THE UNITED KINGDOM, AND THE NETHERLANDS, TO NAME A FEW -- WHEN IT COMES TO HAIR LOSS RESEARCH AND NEW METHODS TO GROW HAIR ON BALD OR BALDING PEOPLE'S HEADS?

The answer to this question, my friends, is that in the United States, there is a very large and powerful LOBBY consisting of physicians who make a very lucrative living doing hair transplantation.

These doctors belong to medical associations like the American College of Dermatologists, and other groups, which control the progress of academic medicine in their field in this country. They have the money, they have the power, they determine where the research money goes, and they have a very strong interest in SUPPRESSING PROGRESS in hair loss research, so that they can continue to do expensive hair transplant procedures.

They will make up fantasy stories that these developments will not be ready for 20 years. They will lie, fib, stretch the truth, evade, avoid, bullshit, hide the facts, and engage in every kind of back-room manipulation to SUPPRESS THE REAL TRUTH, just to protect their lucrative incomes.

Why would they do this, you say? The reason is because if and when hair multiplication, gene therapy, and hair cloning reach the mass market in the US, they will largely be out of business. You see, conventional hair transplantation is a SURGICAL procedure, because it involves CUTTING OF THE SKIN. Therefore, the only people who can be licensed to provide this procedure are physicians, that is, MEDICAL DOCTORS. However, with hair cloning, gene therapy, and hair multiplication, a different set of scientific skills is required. These procedures can certainly be done by physicians, but they would have to LEARN NEW SKILLS and upgrade their scientific background. In their medical offices, they would have to buy very expensive new equipment, and they'd have to literally go back to school to learn advanced cell biology techniques, and other key procedures. They may even have to -- heaven forbid -- hire cell biologists and lab technicians with advanced skills these doctors don't have -- to work in their offices. All this would be VERY EXPENSIVE, and take a long time. It's much easier to just sit back, suppress progress, and continue to offer hair transplants.

What's more, these new procedures (hair cloning, hair multiplication, and gene therapy), are NOT SURGICAL PROCUDURES and do not require as much of a "steady hand" as hair transplantation does. They do not require any "artistic" talents -- something hair transplant doctors always advertise and brag about. All they require is simple INJECTION of a solution of cells into the scalp, or the rubbing of a topical ointment (containing genes for hair production) onto the scalp. Almost anyone can do this. Once these procedures are perfected and hit the mass market, they won't require a highly-trained medical doctor, a skilled dermatologist, or surgeon. They are procedures which are scientifically very advanced, and will certainly require expensive laboratories and equipment, and people who can culture cells in these labs, or mix topical solutions. At the back-end, these procedures will require big, advanced laboratories and pharmaceutical companies to replicate the genes, create the gene therapy "vehicles" (maybe using liposomes), and conduct other very scientifically-intensive procedures to put these products on the market.

But, America's dermatologists know this very well -- these procedures threaten to undercut them, and end their lucrative careers selling old-fashioned hair transplants.

In America (and ESPECIALLY in America), when very big, very well-organized, and very well-financed groups sense they are threatened, they circle their wagons together and mount a massive lobbying and disinformation effort on all fronts, to suppress the truth and manipulate public opinion, the press, and in this case, even the medical research community. Doctors in the US who try to conduct research on promising hair loss cures like gene therapy or hair cloning are first ridiculed. Then, their funds are choked off by the research community. Then they are systematically ostracized from that community.

If you don't believe me, good for you. Have a nice day. But what I say is the absolute truth. It just boggles my mind that there aren't more people out there who know this. I have worked in the medical community, in DC politics and lobbying, and in biotechnology venture capital. I know for a fact that anything that seriously threatens a major physicians' organization, or their immediate livelihoods and income, for instance, will be suppressed and suppressed ruthlessly, and in every way imaginable, INCLUDING, sometimes, cures to life-threatening diseases.

One renowned professor of dermatology at a well-known Chicago teaching hospital, a few years ago (in the mid-1990's), RIDICULED hair loss research, calling it "frivolous" and a "waste of money". He had the nerve to pontificate that people shouldn't worry about losing their hair, when there are others suffering from cancer and major debilitating diseases. This is coming from a professor of DERMATOLOGY! And this attitude is very typical of many in the medical community. It's about protecting your income and your friends' incomes. It's not about serving the public.

So, don't just sit back and accept that all this cutting edge research is being done in the Netherlands, in England, in Canada, without questioning why it's NOT being done here in the US. Some will say, "But what about Dr. Angela Christiano's research into the genetic causes of alopecia, at Columbia University in New York"? I have a simple answer to that. Dr. Angela Christiano DID WHAT SHE WAS ALLOWED TO DO BY THE MEDICAL ESTABLISHMENT. The Lords of Academic Medicine PERMITTED Dr. Christiano to research ONLY THAT ASPECT of hair loss -- alopecia totalis, a rare, genetic malformation in which affected people are born without the ability to grow hair anywhere on their bodies. Dr. Christiano researched the genetics of a family carrying this very rare gene in PAKISTAN, of all places. If she had tried to study common Male Pattern Baldness, and spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars from Columbia U. to do this, she would have been ridiculed, ostracized, and kicked out of her job by the Powers That Be of academic medicine. They would have called her research "frivolous" and a "waste of money", because it benefitted people who really shouldn't care about their hair loss. Meanwhile, these professors of medicine and dermatology are raking in fat-cat incomes selling hair transplants to poor souls, and then sailing off in their 40-foot sailboats to Anguilla. They're laughing all the way to the bank. At YOUR expense.

Remember, in America, it's about two things: MONEY and POWER. It's about keeping these things safe. There is POWER in NUMBERS, and in America, the academic doctors and dermatologists are spectacularly well-organized. They control access to the research money. They have the political power to ostracize and banish anyone who doesn't toe the line. And don't you believe they are not engaged in ACTIVELY SUPPRESSING cutting-edge research on REAL baldness cures in this country. They are!

Re: AMERICAN HAIR TRANSPLANT LOBBY DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING HAIR CLONING RESEARCH

From: Bob
Date: 18 Mar 2000
Time: 20:54:01
Remote Name: spider-wn064.proxy.aol.com

Comments

I totaly agree with you. Few months ago I posted an article which was similar to yours, and I asked the members of this discussion group to form an organization and get united so we could gain power, but very few people responded to me and some even rediculed the idea. I realy hope we could form an organisation.

Re: AMERICAN HAIR TRANSPLANT LOBBY DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING HAIR CLONING RESEARCH

From: Bill
Date: 18 Mar 2000
Time: 21:03:01
Remote Name: 207-90-152-234.pavenet.net

Comments

Hi Hair Loss Kid, I have tried several times to relay this information to this site, but most everyone thinks I am being too pessimistic. It is nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about, and maybe with your background, it will provide some credence to what we both know is true - any new procedure, new product, etc. will never be available until the wealth of the country has worked a way for it to benefit them. You are absolutely right - but it just takes growing older and wiser to be able to look down into the forest from above, and be able to recognize the trees from the forest. There is also the pharmaceutical industry that we have to contend with - it is the wealthiest industry in the States, and they are not about to let go of selling us product after product after product, year after year after year, without one hell of a fight. I have seen this many times - the FDA will not allow stevia to be advertised as a sweetener, because of the sugar industry lobby, it would not allow any label on milk products so the public could make up its own mind whether to drink milk with the special hormone or not, because of the dairy-industry lobby. Our government is so huge, and therefore can control everything, which is just the way the wealthy want it. We send 20-somethings to risk their lives in Kuwait - while the oil tycoons, who are benefitting, are at home counting their millions. If I could have one wish granted, it would be that everyone really wise up, and completely restructure whatever government is still needed by the PEOPLE of the country, in such a way that the only goal is to make our lives better - which for the most part would be to get rid of it. I find it completely ironic, that 250 years or so ago, we left a country because of the oppressive government, only to end up with one that has 10 times the power - go figure.

Re: AMERICAN HAIR TRANSPLANT LOBBY DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING HAIR CLONING RESEARCH

From:
Date: 18 Mar 2000
Time: 22:24:49
Remote Name: 95.mercerville-05-10rs.nj.dial-access.att.net

Comments

So what can we do about this? Is there anything that the people can do to get this hairloss research underway, The whole human genome is going to be mapped in 1 or 2 years, doesn't that mean they will know exactly which genes cause baldness and which genes make hair grow, shouldn't there be a cure soon after that or is the pharmaceutical industry not going to allow it to happen, that would not be good!!!!

Re: AMERICAN HAIR TRANSPLANT LOBBY DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING HAIR CLONING RESEARCH

From: Bill
Date: 18 Mar 2000
Time: 23:35:27
Remote Name: 207-90-152-241.pavenet.net

Comments

I can recall when the excitement about the human genome project, when it was first brought to the public light - I am guessing it may have been 10 years ago, at least when I first became aware of it. I am not sure that "mapping" our genome is synonymous with knowing what the genes all do. There are only 4 molecules that comprise our DNA. We are discovering the exact order of this chain. We already know that there are some molecules, if not in correct order, cause certain malfunctions, but there are many molecules that don't seem to have any effect on us. So I am not sure that mapping the human genome tells us what each molecule in the chain is responsible for, but we can't figure this out, until we have at least identified the exact order. The scariest thing about the pharmaceutical industry is not that they want to make money, but in order to make money, they need to give us something that has side effects. Namely, a completely natural product can not be patented, thusly can not be protected, thusly no profit can be made from it. So they take a product, very often starting with a natural product, modify it to some extent, patent it, and then sell it to us. Invariably, it is this modification that causes "side effects", because it is not something our body has evolved to need, so it is a toxic that the body tries to eliminate, but not before it causes us problems. There is one simple rule that you can almost take to the bank - that is, just because a substance is natural does not mean that it is good for you, but if it is not natural, it almost never is good for you. There are reasons why things happen. There is a reason why there has been little progress in HM. To me, the reason is obvious. If you look at each individual as a dollar sign, do you think you can make more money from him/her by requiring him/her to take a product for his/her lifetime, or by making him/her pay for a one-time procedure. In this case, I think the answer is obvious, and you can see the conclusion that the pharmaceutical and hair industries have arrived at.

Re: AMERICAN HAIR TRANSPLANT LOBBY DELIBERATELY SUPPRESSING HAIR CLONING RESEARCH

From: The Hair Loss Kid
Date: 19 Mar 2000
Time: 07:08:40
Remote Name: 77.arlington-28-29rs.va.dial-access.att.net

Comments

You are absolutely right. You're a smart guy and you know how the system works. Natural product (like human cells) = no opportunity to patent a product (despite the frantic efforts of Dr. Gho in the Netherlands to patent the procedure) = less opportunity to profit. That's what's driving the pharmaceutical companies. But the bigger villains are the hair transplant doctors. Fortunately I never had hair transplants, but these guys are bad news. They are, for the most part, driven only by greedy self-interest. They have a MAJOR interest in suppressing or slowing down the most promising research. They have a BIG stake in keeping hair replacement a surgical procedure, and perpetuating their multi-million dollar industry.

Re: No conpiracy - They just cant be bothered!!!!!!!!!

From: Andy - hair loss warriors
Date: 20 Mar 2000
Time: 07:51:16
Remote Name: host212-140-201-182.btinteractive.net

Comments

I know it's easy to put an X files conspiracy type spin on why are'nt US doctors curing baldness but speaking as a Brit I believe it's a question of priorities. Maybe at these so called ISHRS workshops there is a cigarette smoking man who coordinates a blockade / lobby / balckout of cure breakthroughs but I doubt it - why? - the Big companies couldn't care less about Hair Trany Docs - why should they? (unless there is a commission structure in place and that is a very paranoid scenario).

I believe the truth that there are 100's of sources in the US closing in on far better treatments / cures. (you guys just have to look harder) It would be more REAL:ISTIC to be wary of Pharma Houses in burning each others patents than blaming Hair Pirates

My surgeon, herself a top French Dermatologist has confided in me that she accepts that soon she will be back to her old job - she genuinly beleives this but her opinion is that gene therapy holds the key and this area of science is only in its infancy.

Baldness WILL BE CURED. OR IT WILL BE TREATED PERFECTLY. We both enjoy strong democratic economies , generally sponsored by capitalism which thrives on competition so any conspiracy that denies one companies revenue (even for dogshit like Propecia) will evnetually be exposed.

More tellingly, is the fact that Dr Jahoda remains unempolyed by any of the major Pharma Houses - this suprised me as I thought at least one of them might want to buy into his brains. Maybe they just don't care enough - yet. But he himself remains optimstic and I stress wouldn't be suprised if Gho or suchlike had cracked it today. He is not currently working on Hair Multiplication

Regards

Re: No conpiracy - They just cant be bothered!!!!!!!!!

From: The Hair Loss Kid
Date: 20 Mar 2000
Time: 16:39:36
Remote Name: 165.arlington-43-44rs.va.dial-access.att.net

Comments

Andi, you just don't understand how the Washington, DC lobbying establishment works. I am not principally accusing "big companies" of this conspiracy, I am accusing THE HAIR TRANSPLANT LOBBY, which consists of DOCTOR'S PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATIONS, and the lobbying and PR firms they've hired. I understand how the "iron triangle" of lobbyists, legislation, and misinformation works, because I have worked in Washington, DC, in the very same industry and also in government and for Congress. I know what's going on behind the scenes. I'm not just speculating about X-Files conspiracies. There IS a conspiracy, and it's a scam being run by physicians' groups to protect their incomes. The pharmaceutical companies are also involved in their own scam and lobbying/misinformation campaigns to suppress true breakthroughs so they can sell more of their "cures". Trust me when I say this. Maybe in England, the doctors' groups don't have the money and the power to perpetrate a massive, coordinated effort to influence government policy, divert millions of dollars in research funding, and ostracize and blacklist colleagues, BUT IN THE UNITED STATES THEY DO. Not only is the power of doctors' groups in the US bigger than you imagine, it's BIGGER THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE. These people have MONEY -- and are willing to do anything to protect their lucrative livelihoods, selling us the same old shitty solutions. It's not a man smoking cigarettes behind a desk -- it's offices full of fat-cat lobbyists and spin-doctors at high-priced public relations firms. I can name a few of these firms, but I won't, to avoid lawsuits... which would surely come.

Re: No conpiracy - They just cant be bothered!!!!!!!!!

From: jrf
Date: 20 Mar 2000
Time: 20:54:48
Remote Name: cs109-7.fsmodem.washington.edu

Comments

I still tend to think you are overstating the case. Again, I have not read all your agruments, so again I may be a ignorant, but I think the idea is a little far fetched. Is there evidence specifically of HT surgeons wanting to surpress this or is your thesis that "oh, these surgeons surely don't want this seeing the light of day so they must be surpressing it." Again, I think that most surgeons would recognize that it could get more people in the chair and they could make more money, even if their current techniques would then be outdated. There are HT web sites that suggest that this is coming (see 800newhair.com by NHI); is this an attempt to keep this masses distracted?

I am a doctor (currently a resident, although not related to this field) and am early in my career. I can assure you that no one wants this procedure more than I do, but I have never heard of such a lobby. I think you are really overstating the power of the lobby, if it exists. My brother-in-law is a dermatologist and he looks forward to advanced treatments for his patients (and himself). Then again maybe we are both naive.

jrf

Re: No conpiracy - They just cant be bothered!!!!!!!!!

From: There IS a conspiracy!
Date: 20 Mar 2000
Time: 21:21:28
Remote Name: 133.arlington-31-32rs.va.dial-access.att.net

Comments

This is an organized, concerted, premeditated, planned effort by those who control the dermatologists' and cosmetic surgeons' specialty associations, and their lobbyists. They are using members fees to bankroll this effort, but individual members of these organizations are most often COMPLETELY UNAWARE that this is going on. It is going on at the highest levels. The vast majority of vti__discfem68_articlenumber:IX|18 vti__discfem62_articlenumber:IX|23 vti__discfem60_articlenumber:IX|5 vti__discfem66_articlenumber:IX|214 vti__discfem64_articlenumber:IX|118 vti_featurelist:VX|vti_ACGroups vti_ServiceMarkUrlDirBrowse vti_ServiceMarkUrlDirScript vti_ServiceMarkUrlDirExec vti_ServiceMarkUrlDirExec vti_ServerIndexServer vti__disc183_articlenumber:IX|2 vti__disc163_articlenumber:IX|6 vti_textextensions:SX|.txt. vti__disc157_articlenumber:IX|107 vti__discfem2_articlenumber:IX|38 vti__disc170_articlenumber:IX|3 vti__disc137_articlenumber:IX|12 vti__disc23_articlenumber:IX|10 vti__disc33_articlenumber:IX|7 vti__disc39_articlenumber:IX|154 vti__disc184_articlenumber:IX|22 vti__disc164_articlenumber:IX|4 vti_hassearchbot:BR|true vti__disc158_articlenumber:IX|2 vti__disc171_articlenumber:IX|5 vti__disc138_articlenumber:IX|56 vti__disc13_articlenumber:IX|24 vti__discfem49_articlenumber:IX|4 vti_httpdversion:SX|Apache/1.2.5 FrontPage/3.0.4 vti__discfem43_articlenumber:IX|81 vti__discfem41_articlenumber:IX|135 vti__discfem47_articlenumber:IX|5