Hair Loss Forum - DHT and PGD2
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Ahab

27.03.2012, 14:09
 

DHT and PGD2 (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

I am wondering . . .

We have learned that DHT triggers hairloss.

And that once hair loss has begun, blocking DHT does not regrow all the hair that had been lost.

So how does PGD2 fit into all this?

Is the production of PGD2 initiated by DHT?

Do high concentrations of PGD2 persist in bald areas, and how does it persist, after using DHT blockers like Propecia or Avodart?

And if blocking DHT does not regrow any or all lost hair, then how would blocking PGD2 regrow any hair?

Since PGD2 is found in higher concentrations in bald areas, then if PGD2 causes baldness, does DHT somehow trigger an increase in PGD2 in balding areas? Could that be at all likely? I mean, how would DHT "know" to increase PGD2 only in skin that surrounds follicles genetically susceptible to hairloss?

Does blocking DHT reduce the concentration of PGD2 in bald areas? If not, why not?

Could there be two independent agents outside the follicles-DHT and PGD2--that cause follicles genetically susceptible to those agents, to stop growing hair?

This might explain why blocking DHT after hair has been lost, does not restore lost hair--because PGD2 is still there doing its damage.

But if DHT does not create the higher concentration of PGD2 in bald areas, then what does?????????????

Do genetically programmed follicles attract PGD2 from surrounding tissues or something???




Ahab is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
KO

27.03.2012, 18:52

@ Ahab

DHT and PGD2

You have to remember that DHT binding to the androgen receptor is only the start of this process. This binding activates certain genes which activates other proteins etc etc. which result in miniaturization.


As a result, it's likely that the PGD2 pathway Cots discussed is likely downstream of the DHT/AR interaction.


So let's nip this train of thought in the bud, please don't turn this into an either/or question. The PGD-2 pathway is probably part of the DHT/AR interaction, and not separate from it.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Ahab

27.03.2012, 22:25

@ KO

DHT and PGD2

» You have to remember that DHT binding to the androgen receptor is only the
» start of this process. This binding activates certain genes which activates
» other proteins etc etc. which result in miniaturization.
»
»
» As a result, it's likely that the PGD2 pathway Cots discussed is likely
» downstream of the DHT/AR interaction.
»
»
» So let's nip this train of thought in the bud, please don't turn this into
» an either/or question. The PGD-2 pathway is probably part of the DHT/AR
» interaction, and not separate from it.

But if DHT directly or indirectly increases PGD2, then what happens to PGD2 levels when DHT is blocked?




Ahab is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
jarjarbinx

27.03.2012, 23:22

@ Ahab

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» » You have to remember that DHT binding to the androgen receptor is only
» the
» » start of this process. This binding activates certain genes which
» activates
» » other proteins etc etc. which result in miniaturization.
» »
» »
» » As a result, it's likely that the PGD2 pathway Cots discussed is likely
» » downstream of the DHT/AR interaction.
» »
» »
» » So let's nip this train of thought in the bud, please don't turn this
» into
» » an either/or question. The PGD-2 pathway is probably part of the DHT/AR
» » interaction, and not separate from it.
»
» But if DHT directly or indirectly increases PGD2, then what happens to PGD2
» levels when DHT is blocked?


Ahab, when DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone and creates more androgen receptors in an attempt to recover androgen synthesis lost via the lack of DHT.

Ahab, I'm asking you to trust me on this. I tried proscar and my existing hair started growing faster but I did not get any new hairs because eliminating DHT does not reduce enough androgen synthesis. But when I got on RU58841 with finasteride I started growing a lot of hair on my head. The only reason I stopped is because I could not get fresh batches each time so sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. Ultimately, I gave up on blackmarket RU58841. At any rate, the advantage that RU58841 has over finasteride (and other DHT blockers) is that RU58841 blocks ALL androgens, not just DHT.

Bear with me a second here and assume that I'm right. Firstly, all the androgens do the same thing but DHT is the most powerful of the androgens. The other androgens do the same thing as DHT only they do it weaker.

Now let's say that DHT somehow causes some increase in this PGD2 stuff, well even if you get rid of DHT then you will still have other androgens in your body and they will be the same thing that DHT is doing inside your body so even if you get rid of DHT your testosterone and other androgens will still be keeping you supplied with this PGD2 stuff. So "IF", and this is a big IF, if this PGD2 stuff is ultimately what causes hair loss, then rather than getting rid of ALL of your androgens (which would lead to impotence and feminzation of your body (yuch OK)) you could instead just get rid of the PGD2 stuff, leave your androgens intact, and perhaps then you could get your hair back without feminizing your body and causing yourelf impotance. But this all rests on the notion that this PGD2 stuff is the real deal that causes hair loss. We don't know that for a fact yet. This Pennsylvanis Costeras guy, or whatever his name is, might be wrong. It is possible that the androgens cause hair loss and also cause an increase in this PGD2 stuff as a result of causing hair loss. In other words, PGD2 might be downstream of hair loss rather than downstream of the androgens/DHT.

This Costeras guy (Pennsylvania) has not proved his case that this PGD2 stuff causes hair loss. If it does then couldn't we simply topicalize the new PGD2 inhibitors when they hit the market and get our hair back?




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Iron_Man

27.03.2012, 23:28

@ jarjarbinx

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» This Pennsylvanis Costeras guy, or whatever his name is, ...

CostaConcordia?




Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process …


Post reply
KO

28.03.2012, 01:21

@ Ahab

DHT and PGD2

» » You have to remember that DHT binding to the androgen receptor is only
» the
» » start of this process. This binding activates certain genes which
» activates
» » other proteins etc etc. which result in miniaturization.
» »
» »
» » As a result, it's likely that the PGD2 pathway Cots discussed is likely
» » downstream of the DHT/AR interaction.
» »
» »
» » So let's nip this train of thought in the bud, please don't turn this
» into
» » an either/or question. The PGD-2 pathway is probably part of the DHT/AR
» » interaction, and not separate from it.
»
» But if DHT directly or indirectly increases PGD2, then what happens to PGD2
» levels when DHT is blocked?

Well it's an open question, they'd need to test men taking finasteride to test for it.

However by looking at prostaglandins role in HF cycling, we're looking at a a pretty big jump in our understanding of MPB. Things like bimatoprost mimic one type of prostaglandin, while this type of prostaglandin is apparently bad.




KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
haroldo

29.03.2012, 10:45

@ jarjarbinx

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» This Costeras guy (Pennsylvania) has not proved his case that this PGD2
» stuff causes hair loss. If it does then couldn't we simply topicalize the
» new PGD2 inhibitors when they hit the market and get our hair back?

Probably not. Its probably much like DHT - when enough damage is done then merely elminiating DHT/PGD2 is mostly going to prevent further loss, not grow back tons of hair. In fact there are studies on mice that had the tendency to produce elevated levels of all prostaglandins in the skin that seemed to develop something very like MPB with elargened sebaceous glands to boot. A COX-2 inhibitor would stop tis process but (IIRC) would not revert the process. I should probably check up on that however.




haroldo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
jarjarbinx

29.03.2012, 10:51

@ haroldo

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» » This Costeras guy (Pennsylvania) has not proved his case that this PGD2
» » stuff causes hair loss. If it does then couldn't we simply topicalize
» the
» » new PGD2 inhibitors when they hit the market and get our hair back?
»
» Probably not. Its probably much like DHT - when enough damage is done then
» merely elminiating DHT/PGD2 is mostly going to prevent further loss, not
» grow back tons of hair. In fact there are studies on mice that had the
» tendency to produce elevated levels of all prostaglandins in the skin that
» seemed to develop something very like MPB with elargened sebaceous glands
» to boot. A COX-2 inhibitor would stop tis process but (IIRC) would not
» revert the process. I should probably check up on that however.



when I got fresh RU i was getting back every last strand of hair. Even those that were los down to peach fuzz.

Also, the women (who can use systemic antiandrogens) in some parts of europe are seeing major regrowth even in completely bald areas.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
haroldo

29.03.2012, 11:00

@ jarjarbinx

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» » » This Costeras guy (Pennsylvania) has not proved his case that this
» PGD2
» » » stuff causes hair loss. If it does then couldn't we simply topicalize
» » the
» » » new PGD2 inhibitors when they hit the market and get our hair back?
» »
» » Probably not. Its probably much like DHT - when enough damage is done
» then
» » merely elminiating DHT/PGD2 is mostly going to prevent further loss, not
» » grow back tons of hair. In fact there are studies on mice that had the
» » tendency to produce elevated levels of all prostaglandins in the skin
» that
» » seemed to develop something very like MPB with elargened sebaceous
» glands
» » to boot. A COX-2 inhibitor would stop tis process but (IIRC) would not
» » revert the process. I should probably check up on that however.
»
»
»
» when I got fresh RU i was getting back every last strand of hair. Even
» those that were los down to peach fuzz.
»
» Also, the women (who can use systemic antiandrogens) in some parts of
» europe are seeing major regrowth even in completely bald areas.

I think its been pretty clearly demonstrated that androgen deprivation isnt going to lead to massive hair regrowth. But i take back what i said before about the mice - apparently those that did not develop coats because they overexpressed PGD2/COX2 in their skin developed normal fur after they took a COX-2 blocker celecoxib. Still i'd like to know more about if this was still reversible after longer periods of time.

Another interesting thing about that study - the bald mice were much more resistant to the development of tumours than the normal mice were.




haroldo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Ahab

30.03.2012, 16:05

@ jarjarbinx

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» when I got fresh RU i was getting back every last strand of hair. Even
» those that were los down to peach fuzz.

Then why did you stop RU?




Ahab is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
jarjarbinx

30.03.2012, 18:44

@ Ahab

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» » when I got fresh RU i was getting back every last strand of hair. Even
» » those that were los down to peach fuzz.
»
» Then why did you stop RU?


Let me try explaining this again. When I got it fresh it worked great but when it wasn't fresh it didn't work at all. Sometimes I got it fresh sometimes it wasn't fresh. As I'm sure can imagine, the times I got it when it wasn't fresh was a waste of money because it didn't work. I could not get any chemist to make it fresh for me each time i wanted it. All the chemists I dealt with were making for large numbers of people and they would make a batch and then sell as much as they could and then save the leftover for the next time they had people asking for it. I griped and griped and griped that I only wanted fresh RU but the chemists said it was not profitable to make fresh for me each time. Since I kept griping they began lying to me and telling me it was fresh and sometime it was fresh but sometimes it wasn't. I could tell because sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't. I finally gave up. Sometimes I would get total regrowth sprouting in and sometimes I would get not one new hair coming in. It was like a fish market with the seller lying to me and saying it was fresh "just for me" and sometimes it was but sometimes it was months old.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Ahab

30.03.2012, 23:18

@ jarjarbinx

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» » » when I got fresh RU i was getting back every last strand of hair.
» Even
» » » those that were los down to peach fuzz.
» »
» » Then why did you stop RU?
»
»
» Let me try explaining this again. When I got it fresh it worked great but
» when it wasn't fresh it didn't work at all. Sometimes I got it fresh
» sometimes it wasn't fresh. As I'm sure can imagine, the times I got it
» when it wasn't fresh was a waste of money because it didn't work. I could
» not get any chemist to make it fresh for me each time i wanted it. All the
» chemists I dealt with were making for large numbers of people and they
» would make a batch and then sell as much as they could and then save the
» leftover for the next time they had people asking for it. I griped and
» griped and griped that I only wanted fresh RU but the chemists said it was
» not profitable to make fresh for me each time. Since I kept griping they
» began lying to me and telling me it was fresh and sometime it was fresh but
» sometimes it wasn't. I could tell because sometimes it worked and
» sometimes it didn't. I finally gave up. Sometimes I would get total
» regrowth sprouting in and sometimes I would get not one new hair coming in.
» It was like a fish market with the seller lying to me and saying it was
» fresh "just for me" and sometimes it was but sometimes it was months old.

How much did a month's supply cost you?




Ahab is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Ahab

30.03.2012, 23:19

@ jarjarbinx

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

How much did a month's supply cost you?




Ahab is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
jarjarbinx

31.03.2012, 00:19

@ Ahab

When DHT is blocked the body produces more testosterone.

» » » » when I got fresh RU i was getting back every last strand of hair.
» » Even
» » » » those that were los down to peach fuzz.
» » »
» » » Then why did you stop RU?
» »
» »
» » Let me try explaining this again. When I got it fresh it worked great
» but
» » when it wasn't fresh it didn't work at all. Sometimes I got it fresh
» » sometimes it wasn't fresh. As I'm sure can imagine, the times I got it
» » when it wasn't fresh was a waste of money because it didn't work. I
» could
» » not get any chemist to make it fresh for me each time i wanted it. All
» the
» » chemists I dealt with were making for large numbers of people and they
» » would make a batch and then sell as much as they could and then save the
» » leftover for the next time they had people asking for it. I griped and
» » griped and griped that I only wanted fresh RU but the chemists said it
» was
» » not profitable to make fresh for me each time. Since I kept griping
» they
» » began lying to me and telling me it was fresh and sometime it was fresh
» but
» » sometimes it wasn't. I could tell because sometimes it worked and
» » sometimes it didn't. I finally gave up. Sometimes I would get total
» » regrowth sprouting in and sometimes I would get not one new hair coming
» in.
» » It was like a fish market with the seller lying to me and saying it was
» » fresh "just for me" and sometimes it was but sometimes it was months
» old.
»
» How much did a month's supply cost you?


I don't remember. I didn't buy a month's supply at a time. I bought a 3 - 4 month supply at a time.




jarjarbinx is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply

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