Hair Loss

ESP2 24.04.2012, 09:10	Question about DSC cells... (Hair Loss Research & Clinical Trials)
	--Don't they still exist in the miniaturized follicles in the bald areas of one's scalp? If so, what is the benefit of moving different ones from a non-bald area? Won't the new or regenerated follicle ultimately suffer the same fate as the previous one? Not saying that replicel won't work, but if my concern holds true, this might explain why it was previously surmised that replicel would be more effective for women with diffuse loss. Perhaps men would require repeat procedures, or "booster" injections from time to time. ESP2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
moawk Germany, 24.04.2012, 09:51 @ ESP2	Question about DSC cells...
	» --Don't they still exist in the miniaturized follicles in the bald areas of » one's scalp? If so, what is the benefit of moving different ones from a » non-bald area? Won't the new or regenerated follicle ultimately suffer the » same fate as the previous one? » » Not saying that replicel won't work, but if my concern holds true, this » might explain why it was previously surmised that replicel would be more » effective for women with diffuse loss. Perhaps men would require repeat » procedures, or "booster" injections from time to time. the problem is that to create new follicles you need more than DSC DP DS cells, these alone would create a hair-like structure ( Ironman et. al 2012 - Journal of Baldatology Hairsite) which will die off and not cycle. So the reason why this is only effective ( Moawk 2012) in women early stage pattern baldness it's because the thickness and length of a follicles is (might be) proportional to the number of DSC(if they are the progenitor cells) at the bottom of the follicle by using the Gho formula. "However, if HairMultiplication still involves the stimulation miniaturized follicles, with HairMultiplication it is impossible to create a high density when someone has been bald for a long time. This is because the miniaturized follicles has to be found. In these cases, HM has to be combined with other techniques like HairStemcell Transplantation" - Gho Nov 2005. The new follicles will not die because of DHT, they will die due to migration of these cells. These cells are DHT resistant and will not go through degeneration. Replicel has been aware of this, especially Hoffman for a long time. There was an interview I read where he suggested this could increase thickness and length of follicles but he never mentioned create new hair follicles. Now using the Gho formula: 5 years since baldness = you're fuked. You can see why they recruited nw3s man and women. They've been aware that their treatment will work in this cases (or at least they are pretty sure about that). These are the best cells for such treatment because as it has been shown in mice they DO NOT Cluster. However their biggest mistake was to apply the injection in the temporal region, this is something I still wonder the reason behind it. Results in this region will not be impressive and they will not be able to sc4am investors. A lot of people have realized this potential hence they are ones who have invested in replicel like me. I recently bought the stock when it was 1.75(I ve been waiting the whole time). I will be the one who might benefit the most and this might pay off my Gho treatment . I can't use replicel on my bald head if it works hence im cashing this right after phase 1. Of course I base all the above on absolutely nothing. moawk is located in GERMANY and he is available to meet: NO --- 1. Predicted the failure of replicel, months in advance. 2. Predicted how their stock would rise/drop even with exact numbers. 3. Predicted the wild claims and crazyness that gc83uk's donor regeneration will cause among the HT industry during this summer. Including rassman's opinion, Dr. Woods special patients and Pro hair clinic photos. 4. Predicted Gho will open up a clinic in asia. 5. No prediction on Histogen. Looks promising if they didn't fake results. 6. Predicted the only viable HM technique other than Gho would surface when hairs are: "generated through the appropriate cell populations" -Team Tokyo 2012 - Moawk Advice for patients: If you are considering a hair transplant, only consider Gho's HST and nothing else. First HT treatment in the world that offers: zero scarring, small downtime and donor regrowth. http://www.hasci.com Advice for Investors in HM: Invest in Team Tokyo. http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/research/organ/hair.html Ditch replicel, aderans. They are done for and have no future. Post reply
ESP2 24.04.2012, 11:35 @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» » --Don't they still exist in the miniaturized follicles in the bald areas » of » » one's scalp? If so, what is the benefit of moving different ones from a » » non-bald area? Won't the new or regenerated follicle ultimately suffer » the » » same fate as the previous one? » » » » Not saying that replicel won't work, but if my concern holds true, this » » might explain why it was previously surmised that replicel would be more » » effective for women with diffuse loss. Perhaps men would require repeat » » procedures, or "booster" injections from time to time. » » the problem is that to create new follicles you need more than DSC DP DS » cells, these alone would create a hair-like structure ( Ironman et. al 2012 » - Journal of Baldatology Hairsite) » which will die off and not cycle. » » So the reason why this is only effective ( Moawk 2012) in women early stage » pattern baldness it's because the thickness and length of a follicles is » (might be) proportional to the number of DSC(if they are the progenitor » cells) at the bottom of the follicle by using the Gho formula. » » » » » "However, if HairMultiplication still involves the stimulation miniaturized » follicles, with HairMultiplication it is impossible to create a high » density when someone has been bald for a long time. This is because the » miniaturized follicles has to be found. In these cases, HM has to be » combined with other techniques like HairStemcell Transplantation" » » - Gho Nov 2005. » » The new follicles will not die because of DHT, they will die due to » migration of these cells. These cells are DHT resistant and will not go » through degeneration. » » Replicel has been aware of this, especially Hoffman for a long time. There » was an interview I read where he suggested this could increase thickness » and length of follicles but he never mentioned create new hair follicles. » » Now using the Gho formula: 5 years since baldness = you're fuked. You can » see why they recruited nw3s man and women. » » They've been aware that their treatment will work in this cases (or at » least they are pretty sure about that). These are the best cells for such » treatment because as it has been shown in mice they DO NOT Cluster. » » However their biggest mistake was to apply the injection in the temporal » region, this is something I still wonder the reason behind it. Results in » this region will not be impressive and they will not be able to sc4am » investors. » » » A lot of people have realized this potential hence they are ones who have » invested in replicel like me. I recently bought the stock when it was » 1.75(I » ve been waiting the whole time). I will be the one who might benefit the » most and this might pay off my Gho treatment . » » I can't use replicel on my bald head if it works hence im cashing this » right after phase 1. » » Of course I base all the above on absolutely nothing. The reasoning in your answer suggests that any form of HM is pretty much impossible. Did I misread you? ESP2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
ccmethinning 24.04.2012, 14:40 @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» A lot of people have realized this potential hence they are ones who have » invested in replicel like me. I recently bought the stock when it was » 1.75(I » ve been waiting the whole time). I will be the one who might benefit the » most and this might pay off my Gho treatment . Lucky bastard, I'm in since January at 2.40. You gonna pop yourself a bottle of champagne after today? ccmethinning is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
roger_that JAMAICA, 24.04.2012, 15:01 @ ESP2	Question about DSC cells...
	» --Don't they still exist in the miniaturized follicles in the bald areas of » one's scalp? If so, what is the benefit of moving different ones from a » non-bald area? Won't the new or regenerated follicle ultimately suffer the » same fate as the previous one? Same reason they don't take DP cells from the balding regions of your scalp and inject them back into the same region in HM. DSC cells from balding areas are DHT-susceptible and don't help grow hair. DSC from non-balding regions are not DHT-susceptible and may help grow a lot of hair -- I hope we'll know something about that in a few days. Don't think of DSC cells as analogous to what some people claim about stem cells, that they're these magical cells that exist all over your scalp and all you have to do is inject them in the right place and they miraculously grow hair. (That appears to be a misinterpretation of Cotsarelis' findings, and maybe something that Cotsarelis has encouraged himself, at least by not explaining it clearly enough.) First of all, if certain cells (DP cells, stem cells, DSC cells) are all over your scalp, then why aren't they growing hair right NOW in balding people? RepliCel is using DSC cells from the back of your scalp ONLY. Think of DSC cells EXACTLY like DP cells, only with stronger hair growth properties. They're genetically programmed to either be susceptible to DHT (and therefore be worthless at growing hair), or not susceptible to DHT (and therefore possibly have a tendency to grow hair), depending on where on the scalp they originate from. And this location-specific genetic "map" of your scalp is just something inborn -- it has to do with the programming of the DNA, which genes are programmed to be active or inactive in cells depending on where the cells are located. Just like the cells in your chest cavity are programmed to become lung cells, and the cells inside your skull are programmed to become brain cells, the cells in different parts of your scalp also have different genetic instructions. This is an example of location-specific differential genetic programming of cells. Some are programmed to go bald (in the MPB regions) and some are not (in the back and sides of your scalp). Location, location, location!!! roger_that is located in JAMAICA and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. Post reply
moawk Germany, 24.04.2012, 15:20 @ ccmethinning	Question about DSC cells...
	» » A lot of people have realized this potential hence they are ones who » have » » invested in replicel like me. I recently bought the stock when it was » » 1.75(I » » ve been waiting the whole time). I will be the one who might benefit the » » most and this might pay off my Gho treatment . » » » Lucky bastard, I'm in since January at 2.40. You gonna pop yourself a » bottle of champagne after today? there's a big problem though that I decided to ignore . They've been promoting themselves and paying webpages to help them sell their stock these past few weeks. Which they wouldn't need to if they had good results . moawk is located in GERMANY and he is available to meet: NO --- 1. Predicted the failure of replicel, months in advance. 2. Predicted how their stock would rise/drop even with exact numbers. 3. Predicted the wild claims and crazyness that gc83uk's donor regeneration will cause among the HT industry during this summer. Including rassman's opinion, Dr. Woods special patients and Pro hair clinic photos. 4. Predicted Gho will open up a clinic in asia. 5. No prediction on Histogen. Looks promising if they didn't fake results. 6. Predicted the only viable HM technique other than Gho would surface when hairs are: "generated through the appropriate cell populations" -Team Tokyo 2012 - Moawk Advice for patients: If you are considering a hair transplant, only consider Gho's HST and nothing else. First HT treatment in the world that offers: zero scarring, small downtime and donor regrowth. http://www.hasci.com Advice for Investors in HM: Invest in Team Tokyo. http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/research/organ/hair.html Ditch replicel, aderans. They are done for and have no future. Post reply
ccmethinning 24.04.2012, 15:26 @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» there's a big problem though that I decided to ignore . » » They've been promoting themselves and paying webpages to help them sell » their stock these past few weeks. Which they wouldn't need to if they had » good results . » » I agree, very disconcerting. ccmethinning is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
roger_that JAMAICA, 24.04.2012, 15:26 @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» They've been promoting themselves and paying webpages to help them sell » their stock these past few weeks. Which they wouldn't need to if they had » good results . You're right about that, moawk. Their whole tone and promotional method is kind of fishy... roger_that is located in JAMAICA and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. Post reply
Iron_Man 24.04.2012, 18:52 @ roger_that	Question about DSC cells...
	» Don't think of DSC cells as analogous to what some people claim about stem » cells, that they're these magical cells that exist all over your scalp and » all you have to do is inject them in the right place and they miraculously » grow hair. (That appears to be a misinterpretation of Cotsarelis' » findings, and maybe something that Cotsarelis has encouraged himself, at » least by not explaining it clearly enough.) » » First of all, if certain cells (DP cells, stem cells, DSC cells) are all » over your scalp, then why aren't they growing hair right NOW in balding » people? For AGA patients (not e.g. alopecia areata patients!) you can inject "the most healthy" hair follicle (HF) stem cells from your "safe zone" as much as you want - it makes no sense as illustrated in the graphic above. The "sieve" itself is the problem. AGA patients need ALWAYS both: normal HF stem cells PLUS the most natural "sieve" - so to speak. The "sieve" itself is difficult to replicate/multiply and the "sieve" is more important for AGA patients than any stem cells! Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
KO 24.04.2012, 19:02 @ ESP2	Question about DSC cells...
	» --Don't they still exist in the miniaturized follicles in the bald areas of » one's scalp? If so, what is the benefit of moving different ones from a » non-bald area? Won't the new or regenerated follicle ultimately suffer the » same fate as the previous one? » » Not saying that replicel won't work, but if my concern holds true, this » might explain why it was previously surmised that replicel would be more » effective for women with diffuse loss. Perhaps men would require repeat » procedures, or "booster" injections from time to time. I agree with your point. The important thing is that the size of the hair shaft is determined by the size of the dermal papilla, to increase the volume of the shaft, there needs to be an increase in DP cells in the bulb. Now what might be possible is - DSC cells migrate and increase the size of the DS which may in turn increase the hair shaft slightly, but not a great cosmetic result. But that's just me and my imagination. The big question is - are Replicel creating new follicles de novo or simply stimulating existing ones? Replicel says latter, ARI says former. They are both using very similar procedures, and yet they're making totally different claims. THE Big question however is - how is Replicel maintaining hair forming capabilities after multiple passages? That's been the key roadblock, and I've never heard a clear explanation other than "DSC cells might not need it" which is very unsubstantiated. Many things here don't add up, hence I'm skeptical of Replicel. KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
ESP2 24.04.2012, 20:02 @ KO	Question about DSC cells...
	» » --Don't they still exist in the miniaturized follicles in the bald areas » of » » one's scalp? If so, what is the benefit of moving different ones from a » » non-bald area? Won't the new or regenerated follicle ultimately suffer » the » » same fate as the previous one? » » » » Not saying that replicel won't work, but if my concern holds true, this » » might explain why it was previously surmised that replicel would be more » » effective for women with diffuse loss. Perhaps men would require repeat » » procedures, or "booster" injections from time to time. » » I agree with your point. » » The important thing is that the size of the hair shaft is determined by the » size of the dermal papilla, to increase the volume of the shaft, there » needs to be an increase in DP cells in the bulb. » » Now what might be possible is - DSC cells migrate and increase the size of » the DS which may in turn increase the hair shaft slightly, but not a great » cosmetic result. But that's just me and my imagination. » » The big question is - are Replicel creating new follicles de novo or simply » stimulating existing ones? Replicel says latter, ARI says former. They are » both using very similar procedures, and yet they're making totally » different claims. » » THE Big question however is - how is Replicel maintaining hair forming » capabilities after multiple passages? That's been the key roadblock, and » I've never heard a clear explanation other than "DSC cells might not need » it" which is very unsubstantiated. » » » Many things here don't add up, hence I'm skeptical of Replicel. Many thanks for your responses. I understand DHT plays a roll in causing baldness, but from what I've gathered, DHT "chokes" the follicle so it shrinks to microscopic levels. If so, even if you replace the old DHT susceptible DSC cell with a "DHT resistant DSC cell", wouldn't the rest of the follicle components still have to overcome the DHT effect? Dr. Hall says the procedure can produce increased hair diameter and length, which is quite a boast. I hope he's right. OTOH, "DSC cells mght not need it" is another way of saying "we don't know--haven't gotten that far yet..." ESP2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
KO 24.04.2012, 20:31 @ ESP2	Question about DSC cells...
	Simply put, we have no idea. Those claiming otherwise are either experts or clueless. We can only guess. Remember these experiments have not been done on humans. I wish they'd use macaques rather than mice for the experiments. (Macaques go bald too) KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Sutekh 24.04.2012, 20:42 @ moawk	Why only Norwood III's ?
	» » Now using the Gho formula: 5 years since baldness = you're fuked. You can » see why they recruited nw3s man and women. » Where has this persistent notion that Replicel is only testing up to Norwood Class III come from. According to clinicaltrials.gov : “Males with androgenetic alopecia (AGA) involving the vertex area of the scalp, characterized as type III vertex- type VI on the Norwood Scale qualify for inclusion in the study.” Did Replicel state somewhere else they had only recruited Norwood III’s .., am I missing something here ? Sutekh is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 24.04.2012, 20:46 @ KO	Question about DSC cells...
	» Simply put, we have no idea. Those claiming otherwise are either experts or » clueless. We can only guess. No. The guessing game is over since years. The REAL inventor of the Replicel procedure found finally out that his initial guess has proven to be right. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
moawk Germany, 24.04.2012, 20:55 @ KO	Question about DSC cells...
	» Simply put, we have no idea. Those claiming otherwise are either experts or moawk is located in GERMANY and he is available to meet: NO --- 1. Predicted the failure of replicel, months in advance. 2. Predicted how their stock would rise/drop even with exact numbers. 3. Predicted the wild claims and crazyness that gc83uk's donor regeneration will cause among the HT industry during this summer. Including rassman's opinion, Dr. Woods special patients and Pro hair clinic photos. 4. Predicted Gho will open up a clinic in asia. 5. No prediction on Histogen. Looks promising if they didn't fake results. 6. Predicted the only viable HM technique other than Gho would surface when hairs are: "generated through the appropriate cell populations" -Team Tokyo 2012 - Moawk Advice for patients: If you are considering a hair transplant, only consider Gho's HST and nothing else. First HT treatment in the world that offers: zero scarring, small downtime and donor regrowth. http://www.hasci.com Advice for Investors in HM: Invest in Team Tokyo. http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/research/organ/hair.html Ditch replicel, aderans. They are done for and have no future. Post reply
ccmethinning 24.04.2012, 22:23 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » Simply put, we have no idea. Those claiming otherwise are either experts » or » » clueless. We can only guess. » » No. The guessing game is over since years. The REAL inventor of the » Replicel procedure found finally out that his initial guess has proven to » be right. Who are you referring to? Jahoda? Nobody else has focused on DSC cells. ccmethinning is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
KO 24.04.2012, 22:48 @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» » Simply put, we have no idea. Those claiming otherwise are either experts » or » » » Who is that? KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
ccmethinning 24.04.2012, 22:55 @ KO	Question about DSC cells...
	» Who is that? Coen Gho, Aka Jesus Christ ccmethinning is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 08:42 @ ccmethinning	Question about DSC cells...
	» » » Simply put, we have no idea. Those claiming otherwise are either » experts » » or » » » We can only guess. » » » » No. The guessing game is over since years. The REAL inventor of the » » Replicel procedure found finally out that his initial guess has proven » » be right. » » Who are you referring to? Jahoda? Nobody else has focused on DSC cells. Of course Jahoda. He is the REAL inventor of the Replicel procedure. He knows what works and what not works (and why) due to a lot of hardcore research since decades – and he is still doing this today. Anyway, almost 10 years ago, Dr. Jahoda analyzed McElwee’s (TrichoScience/Replicel) findings concerning whether or not these findings for hair growth/hair regeneration are relevant or not and published his analysis/thoughts in the journal NATURE: http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html Here once again the ESSENTIAL parts of Jahoda's analysis/thoughts in 2003: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> These new findings [McElwee’s findings] have particular significance for those interested in hair follicle restoration by transplantation of cultured follicle dermal cells, since up to now, the attempts to translate animal work to a human context has focused on the creation of completely new follicular structures. The fact that follicle dermal cells [or "dermal sheath cup cells"] can be recruited into existing follicles suggests the possibility of augmenting the size of existing follicles rather than creating new ones. In androgenetic alopecia [AGA], 1) it raises the prospect of being able to convert small vellus follicles [or miniaturized follicles] into large terminal structures, 2) or perhaps more realistically of halting the reduction of follicle size during the terminal to vellus transition, by the judicious local addition of appropriate cells. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< In this paragraph (above), Jahoda summarized in his own words the idea of the Replicel procedure. Here he already excluded the idea of “creating new follices” with this procedure due to his own research findings. This suggests, that IF such a procedure should be successful, you need EXISTING hair follicles in your balding areas; - either any circulating vellus hairs - or miniaturized terminal hairs. That means, these still existing hairs MUST still be able to recruit (additional) cells. If not, because these follicles are 1) already too damaged or 2) simply not able anymore to recruit (additional) dermal cells with such a procedure, as described by Jahoda above, simply CAN’T work anymore, of course. But that's -like Jahoda says- not the whole story ... In the next cited paragraph, in 2003, Jahoda tried to analyze the BIG in this thread discussed question concerning whether or not these so called “dermal sheath cup cells” (DSCS) are a SPECIFIC cell compartment/cell niche of the dermal sheath (DS) as a whole, which surrounds the whole hair follicle in general… >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dr. Jahoda: “This brings up the question of whether there [in the dermal sheath] are also specific DS cell compartments. If McElwee et al are correct, the close phenotypic and functional relationship between the DSC cells and the DP segregates them from the rest of the DS. But what is the evidence that this is a specialized DS cell compartment? In work using microinjected dyes to investigate compartmentalization within rodent follicles, no clear evidence was found for a junctional link between the papilla and adjoining dermal sheath cells (Kam and Hodgins, 1992;Choudhry et al, 1997). However, in a recently published paper in which the location and density of gap junctions was investigated in human hair follicles using EM and antibody staining, clear evidence of gap junctions was found within separate DP and DP compartments (Iguchi et al, 2003). Moreover, a particularly strong line of expression of gap junction proteins was observed at the base of the follicle exactly at the junction between the DP and the DS cells. Indeed, the authors postulated that these may "form a sort of functional syncytium through the gap junctions by which they may play a pivotal role in controlling hair growth and its cycle". Nevertheless there is evidence that, functionally, dermal sheath cells from above the DSC are not dissimilar to those in the bulb region. For example, Oliver (1967) showed that dermal sheath cells from the middle of the follicle were able to regenerate a DP within implanted follicle sections. Moreover, another group have shown that dermal sheath cells from the upper half of follicles can regenerate when transplanted ectopically into the kidney capsule (Matsuzaki et al, 1996). Therefore, there are circumstances in which other follicle DS cells can become papilla cells. These discrepancies may be explained by proximity of the DSC cells to the germinative epithelial cells, insofar as these cells may be "primed" by contact with epidermal cells to be inductive. Generally speaking, it suggests that the nature and role of the cells is [always] influenced, as in most progenitor populations, by location." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< In addition, Jahoda also tried to analyse the TYPE of cells located in this “specific” cell compartment/niche beneath the hair follicle bulb/dermal papilla and which role they may play for hair growth in general - but I do not explain this part in detail in this post/thread. Anyway, Jahoda finally also published a highly simplified and speculative model diagram for the explanation of the KEY problem that he sees with this kind of “cell based procedure” what the Replicel claim to accomplish… http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v121/n6/fig_tab/5602054f1.html?url=/jid/journal/v121/n6/full/5602054a.html#figure-title And here is IronMan’s simplified model diagram for HairSite readers… Anyway, so far, at least here at HairSite, the answer to the BIG question whether or not Jahoda or IronMan are right or wrong with their “speculative model diagrams” is still not CEARLY answered – again, at least here at HairSite. In reality, the answer (by different experts in this field) already exists since years. So do you guys want to hear/read them? If you just want the simple answer, whether or not the Replicel procedure is working or not for you as an AGA candidate, experts in this field KNOW it and say – NO. If you want to hear why exactly it doesn’t/can’t work – that’s another story for another post/thread… As a matter of fact, Jahoda was (of course) right in 2003 - that’s the point. I assume Jahoda KNEW it already in 2003 and his paper/analysis was actually just a kind of “warning” and at the same time without trying to discourage researchers/scientists to proceed with their research work. DO NOT QUOTE SUCH LONG POSTS!! Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
cal 25.04.2012, 11:51 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	That's all well and good but it doesn't explain what has been happening in the real world for years. If Jahoda put the issue to rest a decade ago, then why would the Replicel crew work on it all this time anyway? They aren't morons. They must have had some reason to doubt Jahoda's conclusions at some point. Bottom line, we don't know how well Replicel is doing. All else is speculation. cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 12:29 @ cal	Question about DSC cells...
	» That's all well and good but it doesn't explain what has been happening in » the real world for years. If Jahoda put the issue to rest a decade ago, » then why would the Replicel crew work on it all this time anyway? They » aren't morons. They must have had some reason to doubt Jahoda's » conclusions at some point. Oh, of course their reason is indeed BIG - making money out of the whole disaster. That brings me to the next question: How old are you? 12? 16? I mean, almost every idiot out there can "smell" what they really try. A real and serious reseach company or scientist - doesn't act like these jokers. They know that NOTHING happens as soon as the "hot smoke" has disappeared. Today, who cares about all the guys behind Intercytex? The same will happen with all the guys behind Replicel - and they are aware about the latter. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
moawk Germany, 25.04.2012, 12:30 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	let me understand this Ironman, you're saying replicel will not even work to increase hair diameter and length? moawk is located in GERMANY and he is available to meet: NO --- 1. Predicted the failure of replicel, months in advance. 2. Predicted how their stock would rise/drop even with exact numbers. 3. Predicted the wild claims and crazyness that gc83uk's donor regeneration will cause among the HT industry during this summer. Including rassman's opinion, Dr. Woods special patients and Pro hair clinic photos. 4. Predicted Gho will open up a clinic in asia. 5. No prediction on Histogen. Looks promising if they didn't fake results. 6. Predicted the only viable HM technique other than Gho would surface when hairs are: "generated through the appropriate cell populations" -Team Tokyo 2012 - Moawk Advice for patients: If you are considering a hair transplant, only consider Gho's HST and nothing else. First HT treatment in the world that offers: zero scarring, small downtime and donor regrowth. http://www.hasci.com Advice for Investors in HM: Invest in Team Tokyo. http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/research/organ/hair.html Ditch replicel, aderans. They are done for and have no future. Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 12:56 (edited by Iron_Man, 25.04.2012, 13:17) @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» let me understand this Ironman, you're saying replicel will not even work » to increase hair diameter and length? Definitely NOT for AGA patients - that's the reason why I always highlight "AGA patients" in this context (Replicel/ARI/etc). IN THEORY, such a procedure (and if your really use THE proper cells), such a procedure as described by the Replicel guys/Jahoda, could EVENTUALLY work in none-AGA patients, or MAYBE even for those canditates whose transplanted hair follicles from the donor area experienced a PERFECT healing (without any fibrous tissue around them) in the recipient site - eventually. How? What happens if they culture/multiply your "wiskers" - aka stronger beard hair cells - and inject a proper amount of these cells into none-AGA effected individuals? Eventually the normal scalp hairs become more "beard-hair-like" - namely somewhat thicker/stronger. Eventually. But even in this case, the question would remain - for how long thicker/stronger? For just 1 cycle? 2 cycles? Forever? Or just for a few month? Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 13:46 (edited by Iron_Man, 25.04.2012, 14:08) @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» Generally speaking, » it suggests that the nature and role of the cells is [always] » influenced, » as in most progenitor populations, » by location." » <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Furthermore, Jahoda's conclusion in his 2003 paper: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thus, McElwee's paper, having raised the prospect of being able to augment follicle size by recruitment, is balanced by Tobin's evidence of movement of dermal cells not only within the follicle, but outside to the dermis. In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, there is the possibility that the balance of migration is altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin dermis leads [always] to reduction in size of the dermal papilla, and in turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. If this leakage is the result of signals from a dermal environment unique to this region of skin, then addition of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable. Jahoda, 2003 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< And that's -unfortunately- a FACT today... The CONCLUSION is - just adding more cells, or any combinations of cells, DOESN'T WORK in AGA patients -period. These so called "stem cell niches" or ECM's itself (aka LOCATION of the cells) cause the problem - not the cells per se. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
MikadoMan 25.04.2012, 14:02 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	righ now nobody really knows what will happen. there is always the donor dominance of follicles and their cells BUT you need donor area tissue (maybe) if the cells migrate into follicles adn the donor dominance remain there then it will work of course. even if it would only last for lets say around 3 to 4 hair cycles, thats more then enough to live a life with a full head of hair semi permanent the truth is, cells can do what nobody may expect. my personal believ is that you could tweak the positive outcomes with one little trick, using ghos hst to transplant a huge amount of donor hairs (tissues remain intact) and create a donor characteristic barrier or wall on your recipient area. those japanese guys with their mice experiment did actually investigate the cycle thing and those hairs cycled which is a good proof of concept. the reason why this is good, is simple, if you recharge their cell reservoire, those cells would be blown out pretty fast BUT when they split and multiply, you will always have the donor characteristics stick in place, even if those are lower concentrations. but as always and let me tell you this straight IT WONT WORK ON PRIOR FUT/FUE TRANSPLANT PATIENTS thats impossible, iam sorry thats also the reason why people with prior transplants are that sceptical cause they know it wont work. dead is dead and destroyed or sleeping is destroyed or sleeping and thats it. cause cells never do migrate through scar tissue that well if all natural guidance systems are down. do i believe in Replicel, not at all BUT i wouldnt rule out cell based solutions in a near future for specific reasons. when they started to create follicles from the scratch, they broke a milestone because creating follicles is actuall hands down THE solution for every case. they said they need 30 or so biopsies for around 10.000 hairs/follicles? the problem here is that they tried it out how much they could get and now the problem is to create multiple hair follicles. also remember you can manipulate artificial follicles in a way that you can create different hair colours or textures. and ironman is right with certain statements but not completely, because cells can be motivated to become what they should be and all follicles in the donor area have the ability to resist to whatever it is that cause hais loss MikadoMan is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- You wanna get all the answers why none of your "ethical" clinics have adopted Ghos HST hairmuliplication so far? THEN READ THIS http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/img/uploaded_files/2879_file32.pdf Post reply
ccmethinning 25.04.2012, 14:04 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » That's all well and good but it doesn't explain what has been happening » in » » the real world for years. If Jahoda put the issue to rest a decade ago, » » then why would the Replicel crew work on it all this time anyway? They » » aren't morons. They must have had some reason to doubt Jahoda's » » conclusions at some point. » » Oh, of course their reason is indeed BIG - making money » out of the whole disaster. That brings me to the next question: How old are » you? 12? 16? I mean, almost every idiot out there can "smell" what they » really try. A real and serious reseach company or scientist - doesn't act » like these jokers. They know that NOTHING happens as soon as the "hot » smoke" has disappeared. Today, who cares about all the guys behind » Intercytex? The same will happen with all the guys behind Replicel - and » they are aware about the latter. http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-99553.html McElwee on Jahoda: "As for Dr Jahoda's commentary - the simple answer is we disagree. The detailed answer is privileged information." Maybe, just maybe, they know something we don't, or have something in their procedure we don't know about. ccmethinning is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 14:16 @ MikadoMan	Question about DSC cells...
	» righ now nobody really knows ... Excuse me, but do you think that THE experts in this field like Jahoda, Christiano and all these researcher they mention in their papers concerning this issue "really know nothing"?? "nobody really knows" ts ts ts ts ts ... they are all idiots, sure. They study these problems and publish their findings just for fun, sure. But if you refer to the super-duper Replicel jokers - you're right, THEY know definitely nothing and you guys now got this so called "privileged information". Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
ccmethinning 25.04.2012, 14:25 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » righ now nobody really knows ... » » Excuse me, » but do you think that THE experts in this field like Jahoda, Christiano and » all these researcher they mention in their papers concerning this issue » "really know nothing"?? » » "nobody really knows" ts ts ts ts ts ... they are all idiots, sure. They » study these problems and publish their findings just for fun, sure. » » But if you refer to the super-duper Replicel jokers - you're right, THEY » know definitely nothing. LOL, Replicel might not work, but to choose to support the researchers that support your agenda (Jahoda) and absolutely discredit the ones that oppose your agenda (McElwee)as knowing nothing (which is clearly not the case) is just laughable. ccmethinning is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 14:33 @ ccmethinning	Question about DSC cells...
	» » But if you refer to the super-duper Replicel jokers - you're right, THEY » » know definitely nothing. » » LOL, Replicel might not work, but to choose to support the researchers that » support your agenda (Jahoda) and absolutely discredit the ones that oppose » your agenda (McElwee)as knowing nothing (which is clearly not the case) is » just laughable. Why? Do you know what they really did the past 10 years for the Replicel procedure? No, I don't think you want to know this. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
MikadoMan 25.04.2012, 14:33 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » righ now nobody really knows ... » » Excuse me, » but do you think that THE experts in this field like Jahoda, Christiano and » all these researcher they mention in their papers concerning this issue » "really know nothing"?? » » "nobody really knows" ts ts ts ts ts ... they are all idiots, sure. They » study these problems and publish their findings just for fun, sure. » » But if you refer to the super-duper Replicel jokers - you're right, THEY » know definitely nothing. First of all i never said that, its normally you who says that everyone is an idiot. but i will explain it to you when Jahoda and others went for this, it was in a much darker time in terms of technological or biological ideas, if i recall it correctly it was long before the cloned sheep etc they witnessed problems in terms of practicable use and they did theoretical BUT successful things especially Jahoda. Also when they say something they use words like maybe or could because even they didnt know everything for sure. and this is something you didnt get in my posting, i explained the pros and cons and the possible things that could happen. science is in the beginnings always about theoretical ideas and gets practical afterwards. facts are in those days they know crap about hair loss, also gho admitted that his first FM technique wasnt quiet as good. its a learning process. btw a normal hair cycle can last for several years, so getting hairs for three or so cycles will do pretty good. i know its hard, especially when you have something called scar tissue in the recipient area, where thos cell based solutions wont really work, i have a small scar at the back of my head (accident not FUT) and even i know that this scar wont grow hair ever again but i have to accept it. and ironman please just stop with the constant fighting for now, its really not worth the time, we should rather help gc that his case becomes more "famous" to inspire other youngsters who have an open mind and maybe try to find a hair loss solution. we wont get younger so lets cut the crap MikadoMan is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- You wanna get all the answers why none of your "ethical" clinics have adopted Ghos HST hairmuliplication so far? THEN READ THIS http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/img/uploaded_files/2879_file32.pdf Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 14:37 @ MikadoMan	Question about DSC cells...
	» First of all i never said that, its normally you who says that everyone is » an idiot. No, I just say what I always say - at least YOU're just a psychiatric loser who has no say and you're just some one who should just rather stay away from my posts. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
ccmethinning 25.04.2012, 14:46 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » » But if you refer to the super-duper Replicel jokers - you're right, » THEY » » » know definitely nothing. » » » » LOL, Replicel might not work, but to choose to support the researchers » that » » support your agenda (Jahoda) and absolutely discredit the ones that » oppose » » your agenda (McElwee)as knowing nothing (which is clearly not the case) » is » » just laughable. » » Why? Do you know what they really did the past 10 years for the Replicel » procedure? » No, I don't think you want to know this. I know they had to wait a long time for their patent to clear. What else? Please enlighten us. ccmethinning is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
MikadoMan 25.04.2012, 15:16 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » First of all i never said that, its normally you who says that everyone » is » » an idiot. » No, I just say what I always say - at least YOU're just a psychiatric loser » who has no say and you're just some one who should just rather stay away » from my posts. Ok i think its clear now, you are insane and you have a bipolar disorder or overly agressive behaviour. I dont stay away from postings because you are not always telling the full aspect of the story, especially the cycle thing in the mouse experiment lately. where they clearly said "they were focussing on this exactly" the cycle thing and if something survives one or two cycles, you can pretty much say that it will stay there because of the cell migration, so thats something you did not tell us, and this is important. i wonder why it is so hard and difficult for you to destinct between friend and foe all the time. its not helpful if you play the agresive lone ranger all the time, it wont help you or anyone else. also stop this whole loser psychiatric thing, you know that its getting old. also stop using this really childish signature, its not your job to fing out psychos or trolls, because if you deal with psychos on a constant base you will become one yourself. its like starring in the abyss and then the abyss stares right into you. i repeat again, cells can be modified or "motivated" to do their thing, to clutch together and form a new follicle and/or to revive an dormant one, and if you take a closer look all those researcher use the terms may or could whic means that other things could happen. as an example for this theory is histogen when they told and showed that the hair count increased after a later benchmark. if hairs wouldnt cycle, they would have blown this boost aways and nothing would have happenend. And you can quote researchers as much as you like but not everyone knows everything, most of the promising things were found by accident, or at least a good amount of them and thats also a fact. you dont know everything and so do i, all we do is show our personal ideas, cause sometimes its not just about Copy and Paste but rather think about something for yourself to set a spark MikadoMan is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- You wanna get all the answers why none of your "ethical" clinics have adopted Ghos HST hairmuliplication so far? THEN READ THIS http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/img/uploaded_files/2879_file32.pdf Post reply
Mr. Z 25.04.2012, 15:21 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	I fixed it for you... » Thus, McElwee's paper, » having raised the prospect of being able to augment follicle size by » recruitment, is balanced by Tobin's evidence of movement of dermal » cells not only within the follicle, but outside to the dermis. » » In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, » there is the possibility that the balance of migration is » altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin » dermis leads always to reduction in size of the dermal papilla, and in » turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. » If this leakage » is the result of signals from a dermal» environmentunique to this region of skin, then addition » of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable. » Jahoda, 2003 The above quote represents the current state of understanding as of 2003. Fortunately, we are not in 2003 anymore. The DS cells can and do alter the epidermal genome expression - this has been demonstrated experimentally. The epidermal cells have a very high degree of plasticity which makes them prone to morphogenetic influence. In other words, they are capable of being reprogrammed. Thus the injected cells are changing the entire environment. This is why Replicel will succeed. Mr. Z is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 15:21 @ ccmethinning	Question about DSC cells...
	» » Why? Do you know what they really did the past 10 years for the Replicel » » procedure? » » No, I don't think you want to know this. » » I know they had to wait a long time for their patent to clear. What else? » Please enlighten us. Sure, that's just 1 reason for doing absolutely NOTHING. Or would YOU do a hand's turn (investing a hell of time and money) if you're not sure whether or not you can do something in future with the patent content? I guess no. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 15:25 @ Mr. Z	Question about DSC cells...
	» The DS cells can and do alter the epidermal genome expression - this has » been demonstrated experimentally. The epidermal cells have a very high » degree of plasticity which makes them prone to morphogenetic influence. In » other words, they are capable of being reprogrammed. Thus the injected » cells are changing the entire environment. This is why Replicel will » succeed. REALLY? Show me the science. Ah, I know, just the Replicel guys know this science and nobody else on this planet. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
MikadoMan 25.04.2012, 15:32 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » The DS cells can and do alter the epidermal genome expression - this » has » » been demonstrated experimentally. The epidermal cells have a very » high » » degree of plasticity which makes them prone to morphogenetic influence. » In » » other words, they are capable of being reprogrammed. Thus the injected » » cells are changing the entire environment. This is why Replicel will » » succeed. » » REALLY? » Show me the science. Ah, I know, just the Replicel guys know this science » and nobody else on this planet. They can alter in positive and in negative ways, didnt you make some head cancer jokes in the past. with those jokes you supported this theory. Replicel may, i repeat may succeed but not for prior transplant guys (which are actual a wide mass of people) and i think they will adress this problem shortly. if cells are injected in certain areas, they become like their surroundings or the adopt the abilities of what they will get, but this works only on a close base, like donor and rcipient follicles but not so much on lung cells on your head etc. in my personal opinion, cell solutions will be the future cause right now we have a circle and a lot of players who have at least potential MikadoMan is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- You wanna get all the answers why none of your "ethical" clinics have adopted Ghos HST hairmuliplication so far? THEN READ THIS http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/img/uploaded_files/2879_file32.pdf Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 15:37 (edited by Iron_Man, 25.04.2012, 16:06) @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< » » And that's -unfortunately- a FACT today... » » The CONCLUSION is - just adding more cells, or any combinations of cells, » DOESN'T WORK in AGA patients -period. » » These so called "stem cell niches" or ECM's itself (aka LOCATION of the » cells) cause the problem - not the cells per se. So let me look ... it seems even the Wikipedia guys know more than the Replicel guys... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell_niche Stem cell niche is a phrase loosely used in the scientific community to describe the microenvironment in which stem cells are found, which interacts with stem cells to regulate stem cell fate. The word 'niche' can be in reference to the in vivo or in vitro stem cell microenvironment. During embryonic development, various niche factors act on embryonic stem cells to alter gene expression, and induce their proliferation or differentiation for the development of the fetus. Within the human body, stem cell niches maintain adult stem cells in a quiescent state, but after tissue injury, the surrounding micro-environment actively signals to stem cells to either promote self renewal or differentiation to form new tissues. Several factors are important to regulate stem cell characteristics within the niche: - cell-cell interactions between stem cells, as well as - interactions between stem cells and neighbouring differentiated cells, - interactions between stem cells and adhesion molecules, - extracellular matrix components, - the oxygen tension, - growth factors, - cytokines, and - physiochemical nature of the environment including the pH, ionic strength (e.g. Ca2+ concentration) and metabolites, like ATP, are also important. The stem cells and niche may induce each other during development and reciprocally signal to maintain each other during adulthood. Scientists are studying the various components of the niche and trying to replicate the in vivo niche conditions in vitro. This is because for regenerative therapies, cell proliferation and differentiation must be controlled in flasks or plates, so that sufficient quantity of the proper cell type are produced prior to being introduced back into the patient for therapy. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< In simple words, just any stem cells or "dermal sheath cup cells" or cell crap whatever on their own, they are simply UNABLE to reprogramm anything in case if injected into another location. They simply CAN'T change or "reprogram" the whole "microenviroment" in any new location. NO WAY! If this would be so easy, something like CANCER wouldn't exist anymore! The Replicel guys always -sorry, what else?- talk about CELL-REPLICATION - and not "NICHE REPLICATION". Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
Mr. Z 25.04.2012, 17:04 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» » In simple words, just any stem cells or "dermal sheath cup cells" or cell » crap whatever on their own, they are simply UNABLE to reprogramm anything » in case if injected into another location. They simply CAN'T change or » "reprogram" the whole "microenviroment" in any new location. NO WAY! » If this would be so easy, something like CANCER wouldn't exist anymore! » » The Replicel guys always -sorry, what else?- talk about CELL-REPLICATION - » and not "NICHE REPLICATION". Replicel has already demonstrated that they can inject DSC cells into an epidermal environment that has NO pre-existing hair follicles, an area that never supported hair growth of any kind, and can successfully form a brand new, fully functional follicle. How do you suppose that's happening? Magic? The cells in that environment are being reprogrammed by the injected cells. Just as the cells in a bald AGA affected scalp would be reprogrammed. This is a fact which is without reproach. You can ignore it if you want, but it doesn't make you correct. Mr. Z is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
hairman2 25.04.2012, 17:38 @ Mr. Z	Question about DSC cells...
	» Replicel has already demonstrated that they can inject DSC cells into an » epidermal environment that has NO pre-existing hair follicles, an area that » never supported hair growth of any kind, and can successfully form a brand » new, fully functional follicle. How do you suppose that's happening? » Magic? The cells in that environment are being reprogrammed by the injected » cells. Just as the cells in a bald AGA affected scalp would be » reprogrammed. This is a fact which is without reproach. You can ignore it » if you want, but it doesn't make you correct. They have not demonstrated this on humans... merely rubbing feces on mice seems to be sufficient to invoke hair growth. hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 19:10 @ Mr. Z	Question about DSC cells...
	» Replicel has already demonstrated that they can inject DSC cells into an » epidermal environment that has NO pre-existing hair follicles, an area that » never supported hair growth of any kind, and can successfully form a brand » new, fully functional follicle. How do you suppose that's happening? » Magic? You mean Replicel’s mouse footpad eyewash to impress idiots? Let me look … McElwee,2003: “DP or DSC cells implanted to footpads produced comparatively few follicles for the same number of cells implanted, but long hairs emanating from the footpads (arrowheads) were apparent 6 mo after DP or DSC cell implantation (d), whereas DS-implanted footpads exhibited no gross morphologic changes (e).” <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The MOUSE reality … According to all this, do you really still think that it is a big problem to create any hairs in a mouse’s footpad if you add some specialized hair follicle cells to wonderful pre-existing cells who almost cry for hair growth?? "Magic" ... Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
Mr. Z 25.04.2012, 22:18 @ hairman2	Question about DSC cells...
	» They have not demonstrated this on humans... merely rubbing feces on mice » seems to be sufficient to invoke hair growth. Aderans has demonstrated it on humans. It works. Now it's a matter of optimizing. I feel replicel will be a stepwise improvement over what Aderans has. Anyway, we'll find out soon enough what Replicel is able (or not) to do.... "Current findings suggest that in terms of essential mesenchymal–epithelial interactions, the adult papilla derived stimuli that signal epithelium to make hair are very similar (if not identical) in human follicles and rodent vibrissae, despite the obvious phenotypic differences." Dr. Jahoda Mr. Z is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
moawk Germany, 25.04.2012, 22:18 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	new follicles are out of the question, this is the only bs i don't trust from replicel. Maybe ARI since they were trying to get new follicles since the beggining. However, IronMan you have to admit that you don't know for sure if IT IS POSSIBLE to actually reverse miniaturization not for a long time but good enough to become a treatment like the PRP bullcr4p but much better. This has always been the main scope of replicel even though they were always BSing people with new follicles just to sc4m more investors. moawk is located in GERMANY and he is available to meet: NO --- 1. Predicted the failure of replicel, months in advance. 2. Predicted how their stock would rise/drop even with exact numbers. 3. Predicted the wild claims and crazyness that gc83uk's donor regeneration will cause among the HT industry during this summer. Including rassman's opinion, Dr. Woods special patients and Pro hair clinic photos. 4. Predicted Gho will open up a clinic in asia. 5. No prediction on Histogen. Looks promising if they didn't fake results. 6. Predicted the only viable HM technique other than Gho would surface when hairs are: "generated through the appropriate cell populations" -Team Tokyo 2012 - Moawk Advice for patients: If you are considering a hair transplant, only consider Gho's HST and nothing else. First HT treatment in the world that offers: zero scarring, small downtime and donor regrowth. http://www.hasci.com Advice for Investors in HM: Invest in Team Tokyo. http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/research/organ/hair.html Ditch replicel, aderans. They are done for and have no future. Post reply
Mr. Z 25.04.2012, 22:33 (edited by Mr. Z, 25.04.2012, 22:53) @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	» According to all this, do you really still think that it is a big problem » to create any hairs in a mouse’s footpad if you add some specialized hair » follicle cells to wonderful pre-existing cells who almost cry for hair » growth?? » » "Magic" ... Please point me to the post where i said DP cells can't induce hair growth? Your response is a nonsequitor. You post so much superflous crap that you can't even keep track of what you said or what people are talking to you about. Let me refresh you memory so you can stay on topic. These are your words: In simple words, just any stem cells or "dermal sheath cup cells" or cell crap whatever on their own, they are simply UNABLE to reprogramm anything in case if injected into another location. They simply CAN'T change or "reprogram" the whole "microenviroment" in any new location. NO WAY! Your post quoting McElwee's paper is funny because it completely contradicts your entire argument...which i've quoted for you directly and put into italics in case you can't remember. Reprogramming does happen. It is a reality. Your sieve analogy, although nice, holds no water. Mr. Z is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Mr. Z 25.04.2012, 22:47 @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» However, IronMan you have to admit that you don't know for sure if » IT IS POSSIBLE to actually reverse miniaturization not for a long time » but good enough to become a treatment like the PRP bullcr4p but much » better. You're correct Moawk, Ironman doesn't know. But, we shouldn't be too hard on him, there is alot that is unknown. Control of thrombin signaling through PI3K is a mechanism underlying plasticity between hair follicle dermal sheath and papilla cells J. Cell Sci. 2008 121:1435-1443 "Overall, this points to a significant level of cell plasticity and suggests that change in the differentiation status of DP and DS cells might play a physiological role during the hair cycle. However, it is unclear whether variation in tissue size, cell renewal and cross-reconstitution of DP and DS rely on the presence of common undifferentiated precursors (Lako et al., 2002; Jahoda et al., 2003; Fernandes et al., 2004) and/or on the transdifferentiation of mature mesenchymal cells. Despite the fundamental and the practical interest in understanding how two very specialized cell types can regenerate cells of the alternate phenotype, nothing is known about the molecular mechanisms or factors involved." Mr. Z is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
KO 25.04.2012, 22:59 @ Mr. Z	Question about DSC cells...
	» You're correct Moawk, Ironman doesn't know. But, we shouldn't be too hard » on him, there is alot that is unknown. » » Control of thrombin signaling through PI3K is a mechanism underlying » plasticity between hair follicle dermal sheath and papilla cells » J. Cell Sci. 2008 121:1435-1443 » » "Overall, this points to a significant level of cell plasticity and » suggests that change in the differentiation status of DP and DS cells might » play a physiological role during the hair cycle. However, it is unclear » whether variation in tissue size, cell renewal and cross-reconstitution of » DP and DS rely on the presence of common undifferentiated precursors (Lako » et al., 2002; Jahoda et al., 2003; Fernandes et al., 2004) and/or on the » transdifferentiation of mature mesenchymal cells. Despite the » fundamental and the practical interest in understanding how two very » specialized cell types can regenerate cells of the alternate phenotype, » nothing is known about the molecular mechanisms or » factors involved." Good find...although we should keep in mind both DP and DS cells are essentially fibroblasts, so i think they are not that different. KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 23:03 (edited by Iron_Man, 25.04.2012, 23:22) @ moawk	Question about DSC cells...
	» However, IronMan you have to admit that you don't know for sure if » IT IS POSSIBLE to actually reverse miniaturization not for a long time » but good enough to become a treatment like the PRP bullcr4p but much » better. I understand what you mean - maintenance of an AGA affected hair status, but still "good" hair status - so to speak. But there is still a problem ... » In skin undergoing androgenetic alopecia, » there is the possibility that the balance of migration is » altered and incontinence of dermal sheath cells to the skin » dermis leads [always] to reduction in size of the dermal papilla, and in » turn to miniaturization of the follicle structure. » If this leakage » is the result of signals from a dermal » environment unique to this region of skin, then addition » of cells by recruitment might only be postponing the inevitable. » Jahoda, 2003 » <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< What did Dr. Jahode mean with "balance of (normal) migration is altered"? That means, that during the hair cycles (anagen, catagen, telogen) there is normally always a normal BALANCED amount of cells within the hair follicle - "balanced" is the point. Furthermore, in 2008/2009, Jahoda mentioned in an interview: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Christiano, PhD, a professor of dermatology and genetics and development at the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons, collaborates closely with Dr. Jahoda on hair-related research. "Not long after you remove them, the cells don't even know they're dermal papillae anymore," says Christiano, who is sitting in her office behind a desk piled two feet high with books and papers. "It's like taking an Etch-a-Sketch and shaking it," she says. "You erase their identity." The Jahoda-Reynolds experiment worked because a clump of hair follicle cells were promptly relocated, which preserved their inductivity, a measure of their capacity to remain uniquely hair cells before devolving into something more generic. While I'm in her office, Christiano calls England and puts Dr. Jahoda on speakerphone. "These cells seem to have an in-built regulatory system," he explains. "We don't know how it works. Getting the cells to remain inductive is still the basic challenge." <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< In other words, they know that not just "cells", rather the (instructive) "micro-environment" has an "in-built regulatory system". That means, the amount of cells within the hair follicle is always REGULATED and balanced. So it makes no sense to add more cells at any given time. In such a case (if you do), it happens what Jahoda and I tried to explain with the graphics - the number of cells is always REGULATED and BALANCED and if there is indeed a "leakage" especially in AGA skin (it is!), additon of cells simply makes no sense. Neither for already "dead" vellus follicles, nor for still existing "good" (miniaturized) follicles. That's the problem. Jahoda and/or Christiano study this problem since a very long time. They know what theiy are talking about. So the answer is: "maintenance" with cell-based injections - how? What should be the reason for "maintenance" if there IS an in-build regulatory system? It would be the same as if would add more fuel/gas into your car's tank - your car will not drive faster. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 23:44 (edited by Iron_Man, 26.04.2012, 00:06) @ Mr. Z	Question about DSC cells...
	» Let me refresh you memory so you can stay on topic. These are your words: » » In simple words, just any stem cells or "dermal sheath cup cells" or » cell crap whatever on their own, they are simply UNABLE to reprogramm » anything in case if injected into another location. They simply CAN'T » change or "reprogram" the whole "microenviroment" in any new location. NO » WAY! » » » Your post quoting McElwee's paper is funny because it completely » contradicts your entire argument...which i've quoted for you directly and » put into italics in case you can't remember. » » Reprogramming does happen. It is a reality. Excuse me, but what the f.... is for you "reality"?? I guess you don't even know anymore what "reality" is - but that's YOUR problem. And what "contradicts" my entire argument?? I guess you still think that some hairs grew in McElwee's mouse footpad because the implanted DSC cells "reprogrammed the whole micro-environment" in the mouse's footpad - right??? Come on, this is not the right topic for you, because it seems you don't even understand what pre-existing K14, K16 and K17 cells (and even some more with proper markers) in a mouse footpad in combination mit e.g. implanted DSC cells can produce (aka "JiGami" ) - especially in a young mouse. So I think you should rather post something intelligent in the new hair tattoo thread or so. Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
Iron_Man 25.04.2012, 23:51 @ Mr. Z	Question about DSC cells...
	» Control of thrombin signaling through PI3K is a mechanism underlying » plasticity between hair follicle dermal sheath and papilla cells » J. Cell Sci. 2008 121:1435-1443 » » "Overall, this points to a significant level of cell plasticity and » suggests that change in the differentiation status of DP and DS cells might » play a physiological role during the hair cycle. However, it is unclear » whether variation in tissue size, cell renewal and cross-reconstitution of » DP and DS rely on the presence of common undifferentiated precursors (Lako » et al., 2002; Jahoda et al., 2003; Fernandes et al., 2004) and/or on the » transdifferentiation of mature mesenchymal cells. Despite the » fundamental and the practical interest in understanding how two very » specialized cell types can regenerate cells of the alternate phenotype, » nothing is known about the molecular mechanisms or » factors involved." That's nice. Mr. Z found out that another scientist on this planet in 2008 found out that someting could be complicated because nothing is known about molecular mechanismus or factors involved. Not bad. I wonder what for I posted Jahoda's et al new findings from 2011 concerning this subject in this thread. Ah, I know, I should "refresh my memory" so that I'm able to stay on topic. Funny ... Iron_Man is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- I documented the world’s 1st day-by-day (HST) donor hair regeneration process … Post reply
MikadoMan 26.04.2012, 04:21 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	Wow thats a saddening new low fo ironman, contradictions, confusion and on top of that he uses my criticism towards him to suit him best. and he does it again, he posts snippets out of contexts, also now we have the proof that ironman only wants to troll people because i wrote exactly those things in my posting That cells have to be guided to do what they can and what does our austrian guy do? jop he steals this, insults everyone and plays the all knowing guy. weakest point is "the wikipedia guys know better then replicel" first of all in wikipedia everyone can put infos in a text, everyone and you dont know if one of them is actually a replicel or whatever guy, so seriously what are you still doing? no one claps for you when you attack people, no one does and definitely nobody cares, wake up even moawk grew up and he simply doesnt use pictures anymore or gets in fightings with people, but you are still the same. seriously do you get a sexual kick out of those things, do me a favour, get out in the sun vitamin d deficy brings agressive and depressive behaviour at hand. oh and from the answers of the people here, they read your stuff carefully and they find inconsitencies, it sems you are the only one not reading everything carefully Yes i know now you will put the whole " I dont read psycho loser bS pus**y talks because i am cool" thing, but nobody will care Oh and btw i think ou knoe nothing because all you can do is use copy and paste when it fits your current rant, sorry but you are even less brainiac then your average psycho who uses his brain. In those Jahode reports i read a lot of may and maybes like i said before so even they admit the dont know everything. its becoming more and more eminent that you are so agressive because of your recipient minefield where those cell based solutions wont work and you cant simply give this to other people to bnefit from this, especially if those people get in fights with you. bitter persn shame on you MikadoMan is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- You wanna get all the answers why none of your "ethical" clinics have adopted Ghos HST hairmuliplication so far? THEN READ THIS http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/img/uploaded_files/2879_file32.pdf Post reply
moawk Germany, 26.04.2012, 05:01 @ Iron_Man	Question about DSC cells...
	Oh Iron_Man . I am afraid that the evidence you provide is overwhelming, it makes wanna sell my stocks right now. Especially with how sneaky replicel sounds before even phase 1. I still hope, the regulation thing is BS. Balance of cells sounds like a BS theory to me, much like the physics theorists who come up with some BS paper everyday. I hope AGA is much more simpler than that because if everything you have said is true, then I do not see a cure in the next 200 years. Also Ironman you need to stop fighting Mikadoman and fighting each other, we are uniting against the evils of the HT industry. Those days should be over. moawk is located in GERMANY and he is available to meet: NO --- 1. Predicted the failure of replicel, months in advance. 2. Predicted how their stock would rise/drop even with exact numbers. 3. Predicted the wild claims and crazyness that gc83uk's donor regeneration will cause among the HT industry during this summer. Including rassman's opinion, Dr. Woods special patients and Pro hair clinic photos. 4. Predicted Gho will open up a clinic in asia. 5. No prediction on Histogen. Looks promising if they didn't fake results. 6. Predicted the only viable HM technique other than Gho would surface when hairs are: "generated through the appropriate cell populations" -Team Tokyo 2012 - Moawk Advice for patients: If you are considering a hair transplant, only consider Gho's HST and nothing else. First HT treatment in the world that offers: zero scarring, small downtime and donor regrowth. http://www.hasci.com Advice for Investors in HM: Invest in Team Tokyo. http://www.tsuji-lab.com/en/research/organ/hair.html Ditch replicel, aderans. They are done for and have no future. Post reply