Hair Loss

hairman2 25.06.2012, 20:46	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :) (Hair Loss Research & Clinical Trials)
	As the topic already says I think it would be cool to get some balding mice and try figure out by using different PGD2 inhibitors, which one of them shows the greatest effect. We could document the results on a blog and perhaps start a pool to fund the production or acquisition of different compounds. For all the animal right activists: I am quite convinced that such tests could be performed on the mice without doing them any harm.. I see nothing unethical about it.. Also on a side note... cots claimed that the PGD2 discoveries are completely novel. It has been stated several times that a correlation has been known for many many years. I believe that several related patents have been filed by various companies. It would be interesting to gather some info and confront Cots with this question. hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
Freddie555 26.06.2012, 03:45 @ hairman2	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	There is no mouse equivalent of male pattern hair loss. But you can get hairless mice at the pet store. i wouldn't jump into half assed experiments which would cause the poor animal pain and suffering. maybe some potion or lotion to rub onto the skin perhaps... with before after photographs of course or else its totally worthless testimonial. how about skipping the mice altogether rubbing it onto a patch of your bald nugget. Freddie555 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- "When true Hair Multiplication comes, it will arise out of the East." - John The Revelator, Feb. 18, 2001 Post reply
hairman2 26.06.2012, 04:56 @ Freddie555	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» » » There is no mouse equivalent of male pattern hair loss. But you can get » hairless mice at the pet store. » » i wouldn't jump into half assed experiments which would cause the poor » animal pain and suffering. » » maybe some potion or lotion to rub onto the skin perhaps... with before » after photographs of course or else its totally worthless testimonial. » » how about skipping the mice altogether rubbing it onto a patch of your bald » nugget. http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/16/in-surprise-finding-bald-mice-find-their-fur-again/ this link seems to suggest there are mice that suffer from hair loss. Also I doubt that applying a pgd2 inhibitor would actually cause pain and suffering for these mice. If I were to apply these substances to my own scalp then I could at best use one or two substances at once. With mice I could try a whole palette of substances and see which works best. Also many of these substances are quite expensive so that applying it to a small area on the mouse would be much cheaper than rubbing it on the entire surface of a human scalp. Furthermore, some substances might even accelerate hair loss which is a risk I would rather take on a mouse than on myself. hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
HisRage 26.06.2012, 05:22 @ hairman2	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	You should start to have se* with your sister or mother, there is a good chance that after 9 months, we will see some bald mice that can be used to test everything. If you start today it will be cool with everyone here and we will give you applause like a boss, so please stick one for the team HisRage is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Wanna know something about Dr Woods? http://www.hccc.nsw.gov.au/Publications/Media-Releases/Dr--Ray-Woods---reprimanded-and-conditions-imposed-by-Medical-Tribunal/default.aspx Or here : http://www.ripoffreport.com/directory/Dr-Ray-Woods.aspx Post reply
hairman2 26.06.2012, 05:40 @ HisRage	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» You should start to have se* with your sister or mother, there is a good » chance that after 9 months, we will see some bald mice that can be used to » test everything. If you start today it will be cool with everyone here and » we will give you applause like a boss, so please stick one for the team next time try being funny... cuz this attempt certainly failed. hairman2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
KO 26.06.2012, 09:34 @ hairman2	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» » Also on a side note... cots claimed that the PGD2 discoveries are » completely novel. It has been stated several times that a correlation has » been known for many many years. I believe that several related patents have » been filed by various companies. It would be interesting to gather some » info and confront Cots with this question. Care to defend this statement by posting links substantiating a link between PGD2i and MPB? Not saying you're totally wrong, but you're basically accusing a guy of falsifying credit with zero evidence to speak of. KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
KO 26.06.2012, 09:37 @ Freddie555	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	I second Freddie, there are PGD2 inhibitors on the market I believe. Just rub it on a transition zone. I think we need to follow 3 ideas apartt from 5AR inhibition 1) immunosuppression - tacrolimus? 2) reducing inflammation - PGD2 3) downregulating androgen receptors - Ru/curcumin etc. KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
roger_that JAMAICA, 30.06.2012, 20:54 @ KO	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» » » » Also on a side note... cots claimed that the PGD2 discoveries are » » completely novel. It has been stated several times that a correlation » has » » been known for many many years. I believe that several related patents » have » » been filed by various companies. It would be interesting to gather some » » info and confront Cots with this question. » » Care to defend this statement by posting links substantiating a link » between PGD2i and MPB? Not saying you're totally wrong, but you're » basically accusing a guy of falsifying credit with zero evidence to speak » of. It does appear that the connection between PGD2 and MPB was first described by Cotsarelis. Several companies have patents related to PGD2 and are developing treatments, or doing clinical trials, but for OTHER USES, not for MPB. The main thing they seem to be testing PGD2 for is as an agent to prevent allergic "flushing". Nowhere have I seen any connection between PGD2 and hair growth before Cotsarelis' announcement. However, faslifying credit for things is pretty widespread in the hairloss research world, even among "respectable" doctors. There's good reason to believe that some prominent HT surgeons falsely took credit for the discovery that ACell and other cellular matrices like it may help in healing HT strip wounds and possibly in regrowing hair. This idea was first being discussed here on HairSite and on other internet forums quite a bit BEFORE any of these doctors publicly announced they were researching it or using the idea. Also, I am not certain of this, but there does seem to be more than a little bit of evidence out there that Dr. Cotsarelis grabbed credit for the idea of wounding tissue as a means of liberating stem cells or empowering them to regrow hair, or in general, wounding tissue to stimulate hair growth. And that idea later became a cornerstone of Follica. But it seemed that Dr. Cotsarelis and Follica "suddenly" made this connection only AFTER the connection was raised here on HairSite, and on other internet hairloss forums, by lay-people! There was absolutely NO "prior art", so to speak, envisaging wounding as a treatment modality for hairloss, including by Dr. Mayumi Ito, BEFORE it was first mentioned on internet hairloss boards and discussed on these boards quite a bit. Go back and look at the dates of Mayumi Ito's article, and then compare them with the dates on which wounding + hairloss were first discussed on internet forums, and I think you'll find that lay-people were discussing it first, well before Drs. Cotsarelis, Ito, and other researchers were! So, who gets official credit for that? The laymen who first started discssing that connection here, or the doctors who scrambled to write studies on it and pass it off to Follica to try to commercialize? It seems a lot of what we call "credit" has to do with how many credentials and connections one has, not with how quickly one can come up with innovative ideas. roger_that is located in JAMAICA and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. Post reply
gutted 30.06.2012, 23:14 @ HisRage	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» You should start to have se* with your sister or mother, there is a good » chance that after 9 months, we will see some bald mice that can be used to » test everything. If you start today it will be cool with everyone here and » we will give you applause like a boss, so please stick one for the team 2020, baldness has made you into the internets biggest troll!!! great idea, since mouse follicle cycles are small and any improvements or lack of would be seen instananeously. the biggest drawback in assessing efficacy in any treatments in humans is the human hair growth cycle, it takes ageeeeees to notice any sort of benefit. gutted is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
action_reaction 30.06.2012, 23:52 @ gutted	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» 2020, baldness has made you into the internets biggest troll!!! » » great idea, since mouse follicle cycles are small and any improvements or » lack of would be seen instananeously. » » the biggest drawback in assessing efficacy in any treatments in humans is » the human hair growth cycle, it takes ageeeeees to notice any sort of » benefit. huh??? I didn't even post in this thread lol... this whole idea is stupid. Just apply PGD2 inhibitor on yourself and see for yourself if it works. There is a very high chance that it will action_reaction is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
KO 01.07.2012, 02:16 @ roger_that	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» Also, I am not certain of this, but there does seem to be more than a » little bit of evidence out there that Dr. Cotsarelis grabbed credit for the » idea of wounding tissue as a means of liberating stem cells or empowering » them to regrow hair, or in general, wounding tissue to stimulate hair » growth. And that idea later became a cornerstone of Follica. But it » seemed that Dr. Cotsarelis and Follica "suddenly" made this connection only » AFTER the connection was raised here on HairSite, and on other » internet hairloss forums, by lay-people! There was absolutely NO "prior » art", so to speak, envisaging wounding as a treatment modality for » hairloss, including by Dr. Mayumi Ito, BEFORE it was first mentioned » on internet hairloss boards and discussed on these boards quite a bit. » » Go back and look at the dates of Mayumi Ito's article, and then compare » them with the dates on which wounding + hairloss were first discussed on » internet forums, and I think you'll find that lay-people were discussing it » first, well before Drs. Cotsarelis, Ito, and other researchers were! » Why don't you post the links to the posts that described wounding prior to Cotsarelis' paper. I didn't read the forums as regularly back then (not sure if I was even signed up). And then we'll see. And secondly it's not true. Wounding leading to HF neogenesis *in humans* was first mentioned by AM Kligman in 1961. KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
roger_that JAMAICA, 01.07.2012, 05:11 (edited by roger_that, 01.07.2012, 05:36) @ KO	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» Why don't you post the links to the posts that described wounding prior to » Cotsarelis' paper. I didn't read the forums as regularly back then (not » sure if I was even signed up). And then we'll see. As I said, "I am not certain of this". The discussions of wounding and hair loss did seem to predate any "official" research on the subject. I will try to find a reference. If anyone is reading this and remembers making a reference to it back in 2007 or earlier (Willy?), please let us know. » And secondly it's not true. Wounding leading to HF neogenesis *in humans* » was first mentioned by AM Kligman in 1961. I realize Kligman's work predates the internet, but do you have a more specific reference or link to that paper by Kligman, or a summary of it? How did you become aware of this? If Cotsarelis or Ito cited him on this, can you show where they cited him and what Kligman's findings were with more details? If Kligman did publish research about this, though, that would be "prior art" that clearly predates anything on the subject discussed in internet forums, so Cotsarelis and Ito would definitely be off the hook for falsely taking credit. Thanks for the information -- and sorry I didn't know about this when I wrote that! roger_that is located in JAMAICA and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. Post reply
KO 01.07.2012, 10:48 @ roger_that	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» » Why don't you post the links to the posts that described wounding prior » to » » Cotsarelis' paper. I didn't read the forums as regularly back then (not » » sure if I was even signed up). And then we'll see. » » As I said, "I am not certain of this". The discussions of wounding and » hair loss did seem to predate any "official" research on the subject. I » will try to find a reference. If anyone is reading this and remembers » making a reference to it back in 2007 or earlier (Willy?), please let us » know. » » » And secondly it's not true. Wounding leading to HF neogenesis *in » humans* » » was first mentioned by AM Kligman in 1961. » » I realize Kligman's work predates the internet, but do you have a more » specific reference or link to that paper by Kligman, or a summary of it? » How did you become aware of this? If Cotsarelis or Ito cited him on this, » can you show where they cited him and what Kligman's findings were with » more details? » » If Kligman did publish research about this, though, that would be "prior » art" that clearly predates anything on the subject discussed in internet » forums, so Cotsarelis and Ito would definitely be off the hook for falsely » taking credit. » » Thanks for the information -- and sorry I didn't know about this when I » wrote that! NP. Kligman's paper has been posted here before: https://anonfiles.com/cdn/1321911163884.pdf There was also Breedis' paper, which I don't have the link to. Here is the paper on Wnt inducing cell differentiation during wound healing in *2006* : http://en.scientificcommons.org/1515549 You can see here the idea of wound healing and wnt leading to hair growth is first "hinted" here. They didn't grow terminal hair here but formed primitive hair-like structures. This was in 2006. Check Ito's references here: http://netanart.com/Images/wnt.pdf KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply
blindwilly 01.07.2012, 11:54 @ hairman2	does anyone know where i can get balding mice? :)
	» does anyone know where i can get balding mice? Let me see what we have in stock. Ok, we have.. ..blue mouses and.. ..six legs mouses and.. mouses that looks like Hollywood actors and.. ..mouse that sings opera lyrics.. no, sorry, we don't have balding mouses. However if you are interested we can brought you mouses with a mohican hair cut, this weekend there is a 3x2 special offer. -- Mouses and mouses co. ltd. "A very special mouse for every very special moment." blindwilly is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO Post reply