Hair Loss Forum - HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?
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FollicleSherlock

10.07.2013, 12:27
(edited by FollicleSherlock, 10.07.2013, 12:51)
 

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion? (Hair Multiplication & Stem Cells Treatment)

Modulation of Hair Growth with Small Molecule Agonists
of the Hedgehog Signaling Pathway

The hedgehog (Hh) family of intercellular signaling proteins is intricately linked to the development and patterning
of almost every major vertebrate organ system. In the skin, sonic hedgehog (Shh) is required for hair follicle
morphogenesis during embryogenesis and for regulating follicular growth and cycling in the adult. We recently
described the identification and characterization of synthetic, non-peptidyl small molecule agonists of the Hh
pathway. In this study, we examined the ability of a topically applied Hh-agonist to modulate follicular cycling in
adult mouse skin. We report that the Hh-agonist can stimulate the transition from the resting (telogen) to the growth
(anagen) stage of the hair cycle in adult mouse skin. Hh-agonist-induced hair growth caused no detectable differences in epidermal proliferation, differentiation, or in the endogenous Hh-signaling pathway as measured by
Gli1, Shh, Ptc1, and Gli2 gene expression when compared with a normal hair cycle. In addition, we demonstrate that
Hh-agonist is active in human scalp in vitro as measured by Gli1 gene expression. These results suggest that the
topical application of Hh-agonist could be effective in treating conditions of decreased proliferation and aberrant
follicular cycling in the scalp including androgenetic alopecia (pattern hair loss).

Full Study posted here http://www.hairlossfight.com/research/modulation_of_hair_growth_hedgehog.pdf
______________________________________________________________________________

this is in it's second month of being trialed on the private forum with Pictures before already posted and after promised to be posted, was wondering about any thoughts on this approach here as well as the trial here?

Perhaps a trial here on this forum, may be something others may be pursuing already, or about to, don't know if trials are done here like in private forums.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
10.07.2013, 14:29
(edited by roger_that, 10.07.2013, 14:51)

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

FollicleSherlock,

Thanks for posting this. The transverse-sections of mouse skin, showing skin treated with vehicle only and skin treated with the Hedgehog agonist, look impressive. That is quite a lot of new hair induction.

However, the one drawback I can see with anything involving Hedgehog (and Wnt) is that this is likely to take about 10 years to get through the FDA, counting from the filing of an application for some drug (like this agonist).

Now, assuming some company already has a viable drug in the pipeline, first they'd have to file the initial FDA application (called an Investigative New Drug or IND application)...

http://www.fda.gov/drugs/developmentapprovalprocess/howdrugsaredevelopedandapproved/approvalapplications/investigationalnewdrugindapplication/default.htm

That's just the first step in a lengthy process. Then Phase I human safety trials would commence, followed by Phase II, Phase III, and approval.

This whole process could take just a few years for certain types of drugs which are considered relatively low-risk.

However, a drug like a Hedgehog agonist will NOT be considered low risk by the FDA. This pathway has major influences on cell growth, meaning cell multiplication, meaning that it implicates potential cancer formation.

Now, I am NOT saying that this Hedgehog agonist will cause cancer. Please understand what I'm saying here.

What I'm saying is that because it involves Hedgehog and has the potential to influence the expression of this type of gene, which is involved in cancer formation, it will be considered relatively high risk by the FDA, no matter what anyone says. It will automatically be considered realtively high risk. And if it even gets cleared for human clinical trials, the FDA may well require longer than usual, longitudinal-type safety studies to watch trials patients over a long period of time to determine them free of cancer.

See this article on Hedgehog and cancer:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11357142

Therefore the trials and approval process is likely to take the better part of 10 years, from the time of the filing of the application, to the final approval of the drug for human use.

And the application hasn't even been filed yet. At this rate, I doubt whether one will be filed in 2013 or 2014. So we're taking, for the whole process to come to fruition, a waiting period for us of at least 12-13 years for this.


Hedgehog and Wnt have fascinated a lot of people in the hairloss community for a long, long time now. But I think there's no way of getting round the problem I just mentioned.

Now, while this stuff may be fascinating, I don't know about you, but I'm interested in some viable, nearer-term breakthrough.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
Khalil

10.07.2013, 15:10

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Roger_that

In this article about Follicas Fgf9 finding

http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2013/06/03/hair-raising-follica-study-could-point-to-baldness-therapy/

Its states that they are using a well known and studied drug, does that mean the FDA approval for follica will be quick?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He did say, though, that the company has been doing a lot of work with topical formulations that are applied directly to the skin.

Follica said in its statement that it has already done preclinical tests that combine devices it has created to disrupt the skin with several unspecified “known and novel drugs.” It also claims to have run “a series” of human clinical trials, including a mid-stage study that has caused new hair follicles to be produced in humans. Unfortunately for our rabid readers, however, Olle and Follica aren’t offering many details from these studies, other than to indicate that the platform is proving to work so far and that the research has paved the way for the company’s next step: to try a specific device configuration with a specific, well-known and studied drug (meaning it wouldn’t have to be as extensively tested as a new chemical) in a group of human patients.





Khalil is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
10.07.2013, 15:13
(edited by roger_that, 10.07.2013, 15:32)

@ FollicleSherlock

Can you explain what you mean by "trialled"?

FollicleSherlock, you keep on saying that this or that is being "trialled" or "trialed in the private forum".

Can you explain what you mean by this?

What kind of "trials" are you referring to?

How can a drug be "trialed" in a forum?

It's either in human clinical trials or it's not.

Mouse experiments don't count.

Are you saying that human beings on the private forum are testing this stuff on themselves?

I think they're crazy.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
10.07.2013, 15:26
(edited by roger_that, 10.07.2013, 16:09)

@ Khalil

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

They are saying that in a potential therapy based on FGF9, some drug might be developed which would be administered to the tissue, to induce the production of more FGF9 than is normally present in the skin (this might be done in conjunction with wounding the skin).

They are saying that the specific drug which would cause the tissue to produce more FGF9 is not known yet, or has not been developed yet. (There might actually exist such a drug right now, but I don't think one has been floated as a candidate. Therefore they might have to develop one.)

A couple of things I would add:

(1) If a new drug is required to induce more FGF9, such a drug would by definition not have been studied yet, and would require full clinical trials, which would be lengthy. (Just because they know a lot about FGF9 now, doesn't mean they know all the potential effects of a drug that would induce it).

(2) Even if it's just a matter of adding more FGF9 to the tissues, they don't even know what the full safety implications of that are. (For instance, human growth hormone is produced by the human body, but I believe it still required some form of clinical trials for safety to rule out serious side effects.) The reason this question may be important is because they would be adding MORE FGF9 to the skin than normally exists in the skin at a given time. What are the safety ramifications of having a higher than normal concentration of FGF9 in the skin?

This is a complicated issue and I don't know a lot about FGF9. Perhaps someone can enlighten us more.

But as far as I can tell, just because this stuff is fairly well-known and already produced by the human body, doesn't mean some drug like an FGF9 agonist will be approved quickly and easily.

It looks like the part at the end where they mention they want "to try a specific device configuration with a specific, well-known and studied drug (meaning it wouldn’t have to be as extensively tested as a new chemical) in a group of human patients", is typical of Follica, in that they always seem to be looking for a convenient and inexpensive short-cut to get from A to B.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. If a convenient short-cut really exists, they should try it.

But I think what they're looking for is something like an "OC000459", except for FGF9, instead of for blocking PGD2.

In other words, a drug that's either already on the market, or somewhere in the approval process, for any indication, that would just happen to stimulate FGF9 production. (Like OC000459, which is intended for asthma/allergy, also might have an application for stopping AGA hair loss.)

Then they would be able to conveniently sidestep the long, and very expensive, process of developing and getting approved a completely new drug.

The problem with that is, they haven't mentioned any potential candidates. They say a "specific" drug. Does that mean they already know of one, or are they just hypothesizing?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

11.07.2013, 22:36

@ roger_that

Can you explain what you mean by "trialled"?

Originally Posted by roger_that

FollicleSherlock, you keep on saying that this or that is being "trialled" or "trialed in the private forum".

Can you explain what you mean by this?

What kind of "trials" are you referring to?

How can a drug be "trialed" in a forum?

It's either in human clinical trials or it's not.

Mouse experiments don't count.

Are you saying that human beings on the private forum are testing this stuff on themselves?

I think they're crazy.


More specifically there exist both experimental chemicals and FDA approved medications that impact these pathways that have been found.

Pictures have been promised for tomorrow at 11 am your time I understand, check it out yourself.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

12.07.2013, 04:28

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Also Roger given your awaiting approval of experimental chemicals by the FDA for trials and eventual approval, why don't you currently use orally and/or topically Finasteride and Dutasteride, assuming you don't here, as they have already gone through these hoops as well as patient body experience?




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
12.07.2013, 06:55

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

I do use Finasteride.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

12.07.2013, 10:46

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Not to get off topic, however in spirit of sharing Dut is in phase 3 in Japan for AGA.

As regards growth factors one has to agree there are risks perhaps for all or many and Head and Neck cancers are some of the most aggressive cancers, and considering that the head and particularly the most exposed surface area is the top of the head where hair is or many find desirable to be, prudence is definitely the approach.

I even found a study abstract on Minoxidil( growth factor) and colon cancer increasing it by 20-40%. Need to obtain fulltext to get more details.

Voltage-gated potassium ion channels in colon cancer

Authors: Mansoor Abdul, Naseema Hoosein

Affiliations: Rumbaugh-Goodwin Institute for Cancer Research, Plantation, FL 33313, USA

Pages: 961-964

Abstract:
Voltage-gated potassium channels (VGPCs) have been previously implicated in cellular proliferation. In this study, the expression of VGPCs was examined by immunohistochemistry in seventy-four human colonic carcinoma specimens. Immunostaining for the Kv1.3 type VGPC was absent in two normal human colon specimens. Kv1.3 staining in the 74 colon cancer specimens was low in 9% (7/74), moderate in 61% (45/74) and high in 30% (22/74). Potassium channel (PC) openers, minoxidil and diazoxide (5-50 μg/ml), increased growth of SW1116, LoVo, Colo320DM and LS174t human colon cancer cell lines by 20-40%. PC-blockers, dequalinium and amiodarone, caused marked growth-inhibition of the four cell lines, at concentrations between 1 to 3 μg/ml. PC-blockers such as glibenclamide inhibited cellular proliferation at concentrations above 50 μg/ml while tetraethylammonium and 4-aminopyridine (up to 100 μg/ml) did not have significant growth-suppressive effects. Our results indicate the presence of VGPCs in colon cancer and suggest that PCs could serve as therapeutic targets.

- See more at: http://www.spandidos-publications.com/or/9/5/961#sthash.ll2SJxbS.dpuf
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet it has approval both as an oral FDA medication and it also is sold OTC for hair loss, despite certain percent absorbed systemically, although this may be small.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Review

Nature Reviews Clinical Oncology 8, 97-106 (February 2011) | doi:10.1038/nrclinonc.2010.196

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SEARCH PUBMED FOR
Naoko Takebe
Pamela J. Harris
Ronald Q. Warren
S. Percy Ivy
Targeting cancer stem cells by inhibiting Wnt, Notch, and Hedgehog pathways

Naoko Takebe, Pamela J. Harris, Ronald Q. Warren & S. Percy Ivy

Abstract
Tumor relapse and metastasis remain major obstacles for improving overall cancer survival, which may be due at least in part to the existence of cancer stem cells (CSCs). CSCs are characterized by tumorigenic properties and the ability to self-renew, form differentiated progeny, and develop resistance to therapy. CSCs use many of the same signaling pathways that are found in normal stem cells, such as Wnt, Notch, and Hedgehog (Hh). The origin of CSCs is not fully understood, but data suggest that they originate from normal stem or progenitor cells, or possibly other cancer cells. Therapeutic targeting of both CSCs and bulk tumor populations may provide a strategy to suppress tumor regrowth. Development of agents that target critical steps in the Wnt, Notch, and Hh pathways will be complicated by signaling cross-talk. The role that embryonic signaling pathways play in the function of CSCs, the development of new anti-CSC therapeutic agents, and the complexity of potential CSC signaling cross-talk are described in this Review.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
12.07.2013, 12:17

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

So, what's the point you're getting at with all this? That even FDA approved hairloss drugs can cause cancer?




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

12.07.2013, 16:41

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

the pictures you asked about were posted and are up now of before and after now, you can draw your own conclusions.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
12.07.2013, 16:55
(edited by roger_that, 12.07.2013, 17:12)

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

FollicleSherlock, I didn't ask about any pictures. I stated some things about these Hedgehog "trials" which are being done by some people on that forum.

By the way, do you know anything about the difference between cancer initiators and cancer promoters?

This has been studied for a very long time in the field of oncology. There's a huge difference... Why don't you read up a little bit?

http://www.cancerquest.org/cancer-initiation-promotion-progression.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1007563/

http://cisncancer.org/cancer101/what_causes_cancer_03.html

The HUGE difference is that some substances switch on an "initiator" gene and permanently turn a cell into a potential cancer cell, while others can only promote the growth and spread of cancer once it already exists.

I fear you have completely misread that article about Minoxidil and colon cancer. It says that Minoxidil increases the growth rate of colon cancer, but nowhwere in the article does it say they found Minoxidil to initiate cancer. Minoxidil is increasing the growth rate of a preexisting cancer, which is not surprising at all.

Actually, full disclosure: I don't think you can even classify Minoxidil as a true cancer gene promoter, either. It's not doing what either typical initators or typical promoters do. Instead it's something like VEGF (Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor, which has been found to increase the rate of growth of tumors), in that it promotes angiogenesis in and around the tumor, which means that it causes more small blood vessels to grow, feeding the cancer and making the tumor grow faster.

Minixodil is well known to increase micro-angiogenesis. This is precisely why it can have an effect of increasing cancer growth rates. But it doesn't cause cancer; it doesn't initiate cancer. It has been deemed "safe" in that regard.

Exercise promotes angiogenesis. So by the same token, exercise may cause cancer to grow faster once it already exists. But exercise does not cause cancer.

The problem is you are trying to erroneously equate Minoxidil with a Hedgehog agonist, which you can't do. Given the right circumstances, Hedgehog agonists may actually be initiators of cancer. The Hedgehog gene pathway has been found to be central in carcinogenesis, and something that would stimulate that pathway might pose a big risk of initiating cancer, or promoting it directly through the genes (as opposed to quite indirectly, by causing more blood vessels to grow).

I see you're a member of the notorious "Everything Causes Cancer" crowd. A very serious "medical" condition in its own right, found quite commonly in those armed with a little bit of medical knowledge.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

12.07.2013, 17:24

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Originally Posted by roger_that

FollicleSherlock, I didn't ask about any pictures


The pictures of results posted now are what everyone is talking about in pm and has just caused a maximum users online record and frankly what one will remember about today in hair loss layman's world if they saw them, frankly because they were quite impressive!

Originally Posted by roger_that


By the way, do you know anything about the difference between cancer initiators and cancer promoters?


Yes.


Originally Posted by roger_that
I fear you have completely misread that article about Minoxidil and colon cancer.


Fear Not

Originally Posted by roger_that

I see you're a member of the notorious "Everything Causes Cancer" crowd. A very serious "medical" condition in its own right, found quite commonly in those armed with a little bit of medical knowledge.


That would be conjecture and a false characterisation unfortunately, I simply posted studies without saying the above you mention.


On a friendly note, excellent educational material that deserves reiteration on a layman's forum.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
12.07.2013, 17:32

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

FS, I'm sorry if I came across as antagonistic. Actually I respect your posting about these things, and I'm grateful you're sharing this information here.

Seriously though, I don't think Minoxidil and other vasodilating drugs that promote angiogenesis can be compared with a class of drugs like Hedgehog agonist, in terms of cancer risk (I mean cancer initiation risk, not just pushing an already-existing cancer along).

If you think they can be equated in that sense, please enlighten us!




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

12.07.2013, 20:04
(edited by FollicleSherlock, 12.07.2013, 20:35)

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

The feedback is rolling in now as we type to each other, the results from this have spurred a very very strong interest, so expect to be hearing more of this on the forums than any other treatment for the next few months. If comments of today on noticeable results alleged on stopag a.com are a sign of things to come than many many more are now moving to join the ranks on this treatment method.

I agree this is unfortunate considering the risk and safety questions outstanding. Hopefully some of them may see what you have shared in that regard here or if you happen to share it elsewhere and the one study I posted on such, however most won\'t bother to come here to read this.

Perhaps you or someone else will copy the pictures before and after here if allowable, so everyone can see.

(there is a similar thread on subject, although not main thread that is on the private, in the experimental room on hlh)
------------

On a separate note it is interesting you have posted extensively on cancer today, as I was evaluating coal tar and pine tar shampoo the former used in the Finasteride trials.

With the objective of seeing not only if Coal Tar sold OTC addresses similar pathology of AGA as Nizoral(Ketoconazole) and works in a multimodal way with Finasteride, as well as assessing the cancer risk of Coal Tar to see if it was a \"complete carcinogen\" which not only initiates but also promotes growth.
Basically determining not only if Coal tar and perhaps Pine Tar are valuable to add in with Finasteride in rotation with Ketoconazole and if so, are they worth the risk.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

12.07.2013, 20:38

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

This is the text posted on the hlh thread OP. author Knocking On Norwood.

" 1st off, credit to jimbo and others researching this potential treatment. I take no credit here, i just see the need for an expanded trial with more people to get a better idea of efficacy.

Now, this is worth a shot. The topical use of halcinonide, fluticasone, clobetasol, or fluocinonide to treat MPB. These meds are easily obtainable and safe. They are FDA approved glucocorticoids that bind Smo and promote stem cell proliferation thru mediating the hedgehog pathway. You guys excited yet?

here's a link explaining how they work

http://www.pnas.org/content/ea...2/0910712107.full.pdf

Dosing and efficacy are all guesses right now, but the more people that try this potential treatment the better. There is some solid science behind this and it should be very safe for at least a couple of months straight. The idea, as of now, is to cycle treatments on and off. the ratio of on/off time has yet to be determined, but hell, thats why this is posted in the experimental section.


Dont forget, the biggest plus is we dont have to use shady chinese labs to obtain these FDA approved meds. You can get fluticasone from inhouse. "




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
13.07.2013, 11:00
(edited by roger_that, 13.07.2013, 11:39)

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Well, first of all, this hasn't been proven yet empirically. To my knowledge, there has never been any reliable, consistent proof of hair growth in humans by applying these corticosteroids topically to the scalp, except for maybe some very rare instances where certain very powerful steroidal anti-inflammatory agents were given to patients for other indications (e.g., for rheumatoid arthritis), and there were very unusual, anecdotal instances of new hair growth.

Secondly, I believe this is nothing new. For the past 10-15 years at least, there has been quite a bit of interest in the Hedgehog and Wnt pathways among hard-core hairloss "self-research" enthusiasts. Who knows how many self-experiments have been done with various compounds? -- probably thousands.

These drugs have been around for a long time, the theory has been around for a long time, and the connection between the drugs and the theory has been known for a long time. This is not something like PGD2 inhibition, where the theory is brand new

And where are the results? Where are the photos, the evidence, etc.?

Third, this "Hedgehog stimulation" stuff is extremely complex. There are many compounds that may induce the Hedgehog pathway indirectly, or barely, or in such a way that it doesn't induce hair growth.

It is not even known exactly how the Hedgehog pathway induces hair growth. This is something deeply involved with embryonic development, and the "neural ectoderm" which develops with the mesoderm into the integument and integumentary organs like hair follicles. These people are trying to induce hair growth at the most fundamental level, and yet they have no idea (not even a clue) of how this would be taking place, or if any of these compounds are precisely enough targeted to accomplish that, or just somehow vaguely associated with "Hedgehog", among other things.

Also, I suspect this is one of those areas where mice are truly and fundamentally different from humans. If I had to conjecture, I'd say that the neogenesis seen in those mice from induction of the Hedgehog pathway is impossible in an adult human, and would only be possible in humans under embryonic conditions where the intercellular signaling environment is much different.

My guess is that any results they see will be disappointing at best.

Originally Posted by FollicleSherlock

This is the text posted on the hlh thread OP. author Knocking On Norwood.

" 1st off, credit to jimbo and others researching this potential treatment. I take no credit here, i just see the need for an expanded trial with more people to get a better idea of efficacy.

Now, this is worth a shot. The topical use of halcinonide, fluticasone, clobetasol, or fluocinonide to treat MPB. These meds are easily obtainable and safe. They are FDA approved glucocorticoids that bind Smo and promote stem cell proliferation thru mediating the hedgehog pathway. You guys excited yet?

here's a link explaining how they work

http://www.pnas.org/content/ea...2/0910712107.full.pdf

Dosing and efficacy are all guesses right now, but the more people that try this potential treatment the better. There is some solid science behind this and it should be very safe for at least a couple of months straight. The idea, as of now, is to cycle treatments on and off. the ratio of on/off time has yet to be determined, but hell, thats why this is posted in the experimental section.


Dont forget, the biggest plus is we dont have to use shady chinese labs to obtain these FDA approved meds. You can get fluticasone from inhouse. "





roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
poulal

13.07.2013, 13:18

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

OMG this conversation is just so boring, just shut the fvck up!




poulal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

13.07.2013, 23:58

@ poulal

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Since thread is top posted anyway, and someone put a comment above to try to purposely participate in someone's move affront to silence this thread as is being discussed elsewhere and people are requesting this member username of mine as well to "shut up " about it from off site, without paying "shut up money", not that I'd need any or asked of course or do what anyone or group want.

I suggest if anyone wants more details since I am finished here anyway, to utilize their memberships at private or public forums where it is and or go and join such by submitting their application there to see if admin's approve of your expertise in AGA, end of story on this one.

p.s. that last above post is so de classe for this forum, if you wanted the thread to die as people were saying to let it do, you could've just not posted, instead of insulting a respectable helpful individual such as Roger_that, I swear if I find out you came from off site which I doubt, your career of trolling at least will end.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

14.07.2013, 03:58

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Trying to figure exactly how the below PGD2 and DKK1 pathology fit with the final 3rd bottom diagram which is Numb and Notch, if anyone knows please fill in the missing pieces and connections

[image]

[image]

and Numb and Notch that relate to this topic,

[image]

and finally fits into the master Diagram with PGD2 in the first two, if you or anyone can do it, be my guest, using your paint brush feature you can up date them and repost.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
baldgiraffe

19.07.2013, 14:20

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

You promised pics. If no pics, then it doesn't work.




baldgiraffe is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

20.07.2013, 17:21

@ baldgiraffe

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

think you were confused by wording of title, nothing was promised in regards to pics on this thread here.




FollicleSherlock is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Mr. Z

20.07.2013, 18:22

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Go back to your "private forum". If it were so great, you wouldn't be here trying to recruit people for whatever nonsense you've got cooking over there. You have zero, and i mean zilch, nada, no way, no how, chances of coming up with a treatment for hairloss. The only thing you'll manage to do is put your health at risk.




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Post reply
roger_that

MARYLAND,
20.07.2013, 19:15

@ Mr. Z

Exactly, Mr. Z

Well said. He should know that these constant oblique, smarmy comments to the effect that, "If only HairSite could be as good as the private forum..." are not welcome here.

A lot of the people on that forum are just deluded about their nutty self-experimentation with Wnt, HedgeHog, etc.

There's absolutely nothing new about that sh*t, it's been going on for at least the past 10 years on various hairloss forums, with the same (or similar) drugs, the same deluded theories, the same reckless abandon and indifference to dangerous side effects health risks. Most likely it's also the same small group of deranged people carrying out these endless experiments, too.

If FollicleSherlock wants to think those people are on the "cutting edge" of something, that's his prerogative, and if he's interested I've also got 400 acres of prime real estate to sell him off the coast of Bimini.




roger_that is located in MARYLAND and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.


Post reply
FollicleSherlock

21.07.2013, 02:14

@ roger_that

Exactly, Mr. Z

Interesting

Originally Posted by Mr. Z

Go back to your "private forum". If it were so great, you wouldn't be here trying to recruit people for whatever nonsense you've got cooking over there. You have zero, and i mean zilch, nada, no way, no how, chances of coming up with a treatment for hairloss. The only thing you'll manage to do is put your health at risk.


Disclaimer is clear here, I would never recommend anyone undertake any form of treatment without the advisement and decision between them and their Primary Health Care Practitioner, medical doctor, so in no way recruit anyone for anything whatsoever.

I don't know how you deduce the probability assessment you offer based on pharmacokinetic properties and pathology, please expound on that at your leisure.




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Post reply
FollicleSherlock

21.07.2013, 03:11
(edited by FollicleSherlock, 21.07.2013, 03:52)

@ roger_that

Exactly, Mr. Z

Originally Posted by roger_that

Well said. He should know that these constant oblique, smarmy comments to the effect that, "If only HairSite could be as good as the private forum..." are not welcome here.


I understand, it would be like comparing Theoretical Math to Applied Math.




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Post reply
FollicleSherlock

22.07.2013, 18:49

@ FollicleSherlock

Exactly, Mr. Z

Please delete this thread.




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Post reply
FollicleSherlock

26.07.2013, 12:15
(edited by FollicleSherlock, 26.07.2013, 12:39)

@ roger_that

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

@Roger_that & KO (Avan) & Hairsite admin for the record,

1. being the first respondent and most active respondent to me on this thread, can you state that you have not seen any photos of any person on this thread posted by me?

2. You don't see any sensitive information being shared here by us do you, right?

3. We are given only 45 minutes to edit posts in this forum, and then can't edit them ourselves using standard procedures right?

4. To admin, there never have been any pictures of any person on this thread in your records and if someone were stating such they would be stating an untruth and not trustworthy, right

This would clear up much controversy that has arisen in regards to this thread, thank you kindly. I am more than happy to return the favor of taking the time to clear things up in the future for you.




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Post reply
georgex6

GREECE ATHENS,
31.07.2013, 09:42

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4083/Hedgehog-cure-baldness.html




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Post reply
cody1212

01.08.2013, 13:54

@ georgex6

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

So where can you buy this? How much? How to mix and apply it?




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Post reply
georgex6

GREECE ATHENS,
08.08.2013, 19:47

@ cody1212

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Alternative approaches to the one taken by the UPenn team have, in the past, yielded promising results, along with a mixed bag of terrifying side effects. For example, Garza explains, there is already a quite effective genetic treatment for baldness that has been tested in mice, which activates the (

actually-named) Sonic The Hedgehog pathway. The upside: lots of hair. The downside: huge, uncontrollable, ulcerating tumors.

"This [other] medication can dramatically turn on hair growth in the mouse," says Garza, "but the main reason this hasn't been aggressively commercialized is that is turns out it's the same pathway used to turn on hair follicle growth that also causes basal cell cancers. Theoretically, if people were given [the treatment] in very high doses and were using it along their scalp, sure: they might grow hair. But there's also the chance that they'll grow basal cell cancers. Which nobody would like. Especially if the tumor starts bleeding."


www.esquire.com/the-side/cure-for-balding-5430612




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Post reply
Researcher

08.08.2013, 19:59

@ georgex6

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

I have been watching this thread regularly since it was first posted, however I have yet to see one picture posted of anyone using this, on this thread, when will this be shared please?

Also this pics on private in the title, that isn't clear either in the first post of this thread or title, where or what that is, is it?




Researcher is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Researcher

08.08.2013, 21:07
(edited by Researcher, 08.08.2013, 21:35)

@ FollicleSherlock

HHAG 1.5 (HedgeHog) trialled now with Pic's on private, what's your opinion?

Originally Posted by georgex6

Alternative approaches to the one taken by the UPenn team have, in the past, yielded promising results, along with a mixed bag of terrifying side effects. For example, Garza explains, there is already a quite effective genetic treatment for baldness that has been tested in mice, which activates the (

actually-named) Sonic The Hedgehog pathway. The upside: lots of hair. The downside: huge, uncontrollable, ulcerating tumors.

"This [other] medication can dramatically turn on hair growth in the mouse," says Garza, "but the main reason this hasn't been aggressively commercialized is that is turns out it's the same pathway used to turn on hair follicle growth that also causes basal cell cancers. Theoretically, if people were given [the treatment] in very high doses and were using it along their scalp, sure: they might grow hair. But there's also the chance that they'll grow basal cell cancers. Which nobody would like. Especially if the tumor starts bleeding."


www.esquire.com/the-side/cure-for-balding-5430612[/div][/div]

Thanks for posting the above today. Simply it isn't worth the risk of cancer, end of story you are saying and this cancer is also reproducible in human testing or this is simply animal testing and what is the confidence level that it translates to human exactly?

If there are these pictures of people doing this, lets see them, no need to beat around the bush with this thread.





Researcher is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply

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