Hair Loss Forum - MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

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Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
12.11.2013, 23:41
 

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP (Hair Transplant)

Hi Everyone:

I just wanted to present a case we did this past weekend. Dr. G extracted and planted 5000 FUE in one day for a patient who would only have been able to achieve around 3000-3300 grafts off of STRIP.

The patient spent only 25,000 CAD (we charge 5 dollars/graft above 4000 grafts) and the surgery ran 21 hours.

This patient, after a lot of discussion, wished to go with FUE over STRIP, due to the fact that he would not have been able to get the amount of grafts he needed to cover the entire area in one pass VIA STRIP.

This is a major step forward in FUE and Hair Transplants. The ARTAS is fantastic simply because it does not tire and can extract these large numbers of grafts in one day. These true FUE mega sessions allows the patient to not have to wait 1 year between surgeries (STRIP) or several months for another FUE surgery to fill up an entire area. Not to mention having to do the surgery over 3 or 4 days in a row with manual FUE. It keeps staff fatigue low and allows us to do these size sessions daily. We are routinely doing 3500 -4000 grafts on NW6 patients now and the scarring is a non issue - even with the 1mm punch. I will grab photos on some of our more severe hair loss patients to show as they arise. We started very conservatively - 1000 grafts cases, then 1500, 2000 etc to ensure that the scarring would not be an issue. We have been pleasantly surprised at the

The MOST important factor is that doing such a large session in one day keeps our overhead lower so we can offer FUE at a very reasonable price point for such a large number of grafts. Our goal is to make TRUE mega sessions affordable and offer them routinely.

[image]
[image]




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
brunobald

13.11.2013, 01:49

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Wow that looks painful, but worth it for all those grafts. Are Artas still currently developing their robot. It would be great if the robot could somehow be modified to incorperate donor regen if we find out later that hair transection is needed for that process.

Great to hear more mega sessions are being performed, cost is such an important issue to many buyers there are only so many people willing to drop tens of thousands on a HT. Hopefully as more clinic get used to placing more graft per session this will help to drive down costs.




brunobald is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
scar5

13.11.2013, 11:00

@ brunobald

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Good to see bigger FUE sessions, but I'm wondering about the punch. What is the outside diameter used here? It looks on the larger size. Is it 1mm?




scar5 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
ejj

13.11.2013, 11:25

@ scar5

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

I would also like to know the punch size used here. On the website of restoration robotics it stated 1.4m punch last time i looked.

ejj




ejj is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
CITNews

Alpharetta,
13.11.2013, 15:54

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

In my opinion:
This is a great example of when a strip procedure can be a far better option for a patient in the hands of a capable surgeon.

I work at Dr. Cole's office and have never seen a post-op donor area like this! The donor pic is blurry, but the extraction sites look huge and way out of the safe donor range.

Dr. Cole has performed over 8,000 strip hair transplant procedures and gradually moved to his proprietary method of FUE beginning in 2002. He currently uses a .85 punch in many cases when possible to safely score grafts. ACell is nearly always used in the donor sites because it helps healing and can reduce white dotting called hypopigmentation.

I hope this patient gets great growth, and a free option is made available to him to address the possibility of donor area scarring. If necessary, I suggest beard hair grafted into the extraction sites. The Artas is a great idea, but I don't believe the technology can yet come close to compete with the hands of a skilled FUE surgeon like Dr. Cole.

CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com

I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck




CITNews is located in ALPHARETTA and he is available to meet: NO

---
CITNews works for Dr. Cole's clinic in Atlanta
Cole Hair Transplant
Phone 678-566-1011
FREE CONSULTATION


Post reply
Dr. Cole

Atlanta, Ga,
13.11.2013, 17:05

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Just because you can do something does not mean that you should do it.

I think this is a great example of a new technology that has allowed a physician to make a very bad decision regarding this patient. First, the donor area in the middle of the occipital scalp has been harvested almost to the level of the crown loss. This might not be so bad if there were no loss in the crown area, but since you have grafted this area, it is obvious that there is some loss in the crown. What this all implies is that you have harvested outside the safe donor area. It seems fairly clear that if you did not have the technology, you would not have made this mistake with this patient.

Second, the wound size with the Artas is much larger than it needs to be. The outside diameter of the dull punch is greater than 1.7 mm and the holes appear much larger than the 1.2 mm reported inside diameter. Studies have shown that the average "missed graft" rate with the Artas is 26%. What this means is that on average, if you harvest 1000 grafts, you will remove only 740 grafts. The other attempts at harvesting are simply lost in space. These are either unnecessary wounding or completely transected grafts. Either way, it's not good.

Finally, I've done enough FUE procedures to state affirmatively that you have not harvested or placed 5000 FUE grafts in this patient. Even though you harvested well outside the safe donor zone, you have not extracted grafts in a tight enough pattern to harvest 4000 grafts, much less 5000 grafts. You also have not placed enough grafts to equal 5000 placed grafts. Think about this. In order to harvest 5000 grafts, you would have needed to make over 6000 attempts to harvest. You simply don't have enough donor area to do something like this. You just made up a number and hoped it would bring you tons of business.

There are so many better ways to do FUE than the Artas and so many more knowledgeable FUE physicians out there that can give you a good result without the risks associated with this procedure. Bad technology such as the Artas in the hands of a physician lacking proper training in FUE is a formula for potential disaster. You and your patients are going to get into serious trouble if you keep making mistakes like this. You better go get yourself some training before you attempt to market bad surgery decisions.




Dr. Cole is located in ATLANTA, GA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
John P. Cole, MD
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, GA 3009
678 566 1011
==
Dr. Cole is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 17:10

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Hi Cit News: :) I've highlighted what you wrote in red


This is a great example of when a strip procedure can be a far better option for a patient in the hands of a capable surgeon.



Just to let you know that we have performed around 6000 hair transplants and routinely do mega sessions above 4000 grafts via STRIP (I think you may want to look at the pedigree of the clinic when talking about ability :D) - Please see our video here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yORkaZXZFgk


I am not a fan of opinions. I am a fan of RESULTS.


I work at Dr. Cole's office and have never seen a post-op donor area like this! The donor pic is blurry, but the extraction sites look huge and way out of the safe donor range.


Luckily! I have HD Video of his donor which I can post :D


Dr. Cole has performed over 8,000 strip hair transplant procedures and gradually moved to his proprietary method of FUE beginning in 2002. He currently uses a .85 punch in many cases when possible to safely score grafts. ACell is nearly always used in the donor sites because it helps healing and can reduce white dotting called hypopigmentation.




This patient is near 60 years old and has no signs of miniaturization in the areas we took. He is fully aware of what he have done and in regards to the safety zone. I will also say very bluntly - and you know this so don't play pretend here - that many of the top doctors (I wont name names) go outside of the safety zone with STRIP surgeries.

You also suggest that a 1mm punch causes scarring and then go on to say we should BHT beard hair into these scars? Are you suggesting that the ARTAS requires repair work? What photos/videos do you have to even come close to suggesting such a statement? Where is your proof? I have hundreds of FUE cases that show the minimal scarring. Luckily I have a great video I made of our patient - who just so happend to have one here with a shaved head using a straight razor - with a 1mm punch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qeBmJAJ8I

I like to pay attention to what a consumer wants - he understands, and is an engineer and his wife a doctor - that the survival rate was 92% on average, has seen many of our patients before and after and was OVER THE MOON with the thought that he could do this all in one day.

Reality is also: I have yet to have ONE patient come back and be less than over the moon by how great their donour looks. You said it at the top - in your opinion - however, you are right - it is an opinion without fact, video and proof. There are a lot of new people on here who look to these sites and have no idea what is true and not. If you want to disprove something, put out photos, before and after photos and let people decide for themselves.

We have had amazing reviews, mind blowing results, not one complaint from over 6000 patients and continue to do so. That's reality and I have the photo's and videos to prove it.


If you want to have this discussion - I am happy to; however, I we can just continue with the discussion that in my opinion is much more realistic:

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-114196.html


If necessary, I suggest beard hair grafted into the extraction sites. The Artas is a great idea, but I don't believe the technology can yet come close to compete with the hands of a skilled FUE surgeon like Dr. Cole.


Considering we have done 6000 hair transplants and have yet to have any negative reviews or complaints I do not even think I need to explain to the readers the motive of the above statement suggesting this will need to be repaired :)




CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 17:15

@ Dr. Cole

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Dr cole:

I have much respect for you; however, I can assure you we extracted 5000 grafts. The ARTAS has a counter and we did indeed extract 5000 grafts.

Let results speak for themselves.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 17:20

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Dr Cole: to suggest that we would lie about how many grafts we extracted is ridiculous. I have posted photos, with proof. We indeed extracted 5000 grafts from this patient. As mentioned there is a counter on the ARTAS. This is reality. Not a joke, game or subjective to anything other than a number that is counted.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 17:25

@ brunobald

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Bruno bald:

The hope by doing these high numbers is to bring down cost and ensure high quality and make this type of procedure available to more people at an affordable cost. That's the goal.

The actualy punch with extracts the grafts is 1mm from the ARTAS.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
CITNews

Alpharetta,
13.11.2013, 17:56

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

I hadn't considered that one day I would be defending strip procedures since we are an FUE-only clinic. The donor looks brutal. How could this ever be superior to an average strip procedure result? Sure we see some wide scars, come through our clinic from other doctors but if it were me, I would take my chances with one of the current strip masters rather than have my donor area look like that.

Please post more photos. The donor shot was out of focus.

CITNews works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
email 35YrsAfter at chuck@forhair.com
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck




CITNews is located in ALPHARETTA and he is available to meet: NO

---
CITNews works for Dr. Cole's clinic in Atlanta
Cole Hair Transplant
Phone 678-566-1011
FREE CONSULTATION


Post reply
Dr. Cole

Atlanta, Ga,
13.11.2013, 18:14

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Age is a very important piece of information. At 60 years old, it's is hard to say that you went out of the safe donor area. You certainly went out of the "traditional" safe donor area, but I don't think there are any absolutes in terms of the safe donor area.

there is a counter on the ARtas, but it has never matched the number of grafts removed. The counter is the number of attempts. I have never heard the company disclose the difference between the number of attempts and the number of grafts removed, but they have never been equal. The attempts is always greater than the number of extracted grafts. The difference is the number of missing grafts.

Good luck.




Dr. Cole is located in ATLANTA, GA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
John P. Cole, MD
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, GA 3009
678 566 1011
==
Dr. Cole is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 18:35

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

I hadn't considered that one day I would be defending strip procedures since we are an FUE-only clinic. The donor looks brutal. How could this ever be superior to an average strip procedure result? Sure we see some wide scars, come through our clinic from other doctors but if it were me, I would take my chances with one of the current strip masters rather than have my donor area look like that.


I don't even know how to address the above. Take a look at the video I posted here regarding scarring - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qeBmJAJ8I

These photos are the day of surgery. I don't understand how you can just willingly give an opinion without any fact. I think it's quite obvious the motives here. Here is a patient 3500 graft FUE immediately post op and 10 days post op - done with the ARTAS: This is reality. Real photos and not an opinion. I'm sorry but this donor looks AMAZING at only 10 days. I took all of these photos myself. Are you now going to say that this is a different person? Or that it is more than 10 days? This is REAL. REALITY, WITH PROOF. Sorry - but there is not ONE STRIP clinic - including us - that can extract 3500 grafts via FUT and have the donor look this good even 1 year later with hair this short.

Please - before posting your "opinion" try to support it with fact - i.e. video, photo and content. An opinion is just that - not fact.

Just because no one has done this size sessions, with this type of work does not make it wrong or bad. It's just bashing something new. Just like FUE was bashed when it first came out as inferior to STRIP. Or how when STRIP mega sessions went from 2000 grafts and suddenly 5000 grafts were being done out of nowhere everyone bashed it. The reality is that THIS WORKS, it's amazing what can be done and the bashing of something new is simply hair loss history repeating itself.



[image]
[image]




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
jotronic

Homepage

Vancouver, BC Canada,
13.11.2013, 18:40

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

[image]


;)




jotronic is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
[image]
www.HassonandWong.com

All opinions are my own and may not necessarily be shared by Dr. Wong and/or Dr. Hasson.

If you are interested in having an online consultation visit www.hassonandwong.ca


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 18:47

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Dr Cole. I am a repair patient from a horrible STRIP surgery over 12 year ago. I have looked at almost every one of your photos, posts and videos in my early years before going into transplants. I respect your work and ethics and your information along with many others helped me learn the difference between good vs bad clinics. I do want to thank you for that. However, I believe in letting work, photos and videos do the talking. That is the one thing I have learned from these boards over the past 10 years.

I understand you have a difference of opinion. But we are being very bold in showing the work - without the results coming in because we are fully behind the ability of this ROBOT. I do not think any clinic will be posting the amount of photos I will post. So please try to keep an open mind, wait for results to come in and let the results speak for themself. We are finding the average survival rate on MOST patients above 92-94%. That is a real number. I am in surgery, watching, looking and counting. There have been some cases below 90% survival rate but I would guess less than 10% of our patients were in the 10-15% transection rate and I recall Dr. Feller saying even the best FUE doctors have bad FUE cases - it is what it is. We have to date had 2 people with VERY POOR transection rates and we stopped surgery because we did not want to due damage. These were both patients with very coarse and dark hair. We do not do unethical things, want most definitely have no need to "make false claims" to bring in money - we are beyond busy. We're simply pushing the envelope one step at a time in a safe way and showing that work to the public. I am EXTREMELY proud of what I see and the work and I am truly blown away that a 1mm punch is looking so amazing in the donor. I really am.

Let the work speak for itself.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 18:49

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

LOL @joe - hope the west coast is warmer than in Toronto :)




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Dr. Cole

Atlanta, Ga,
13.11.2013, 19:02

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Dude, you are not pushing the envelope. There is nothing you have suggested that has not been done or attempted before except you are pushing a bad piece of equipment to the brink of insanity. You have no results, yet you are claiming to do over 3000 grafts. You honestly believe you are the first person to exceed 4000 FUE grafts? Again, just because you can do something, does not mean you should do it.

Let me clue you in on a few things. First, i know the donor area. I know it a ton better than you do. I know what a donor area looks like when you harvest over 3000 grafts. I know how tight the extractions have to be. I know that you are far to well spaced apart to reach that target number. You are harvesting well outside the mid-occipital donor area with a bludgeon punch. You are nothing short of a disaster in the making.
ui



Dr. Cole is located in ATLANTA, GA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
John P. Cole, MD
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, GA 3009
678 566 1011
==
Dr. Cole is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 19:11

@ Dr. Cole

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Let's let the results speak for themselves :)




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
CITNews

Alpharetta,
13.11.2013, 19:47

@ jotronic

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

We see on average, four severe strip scars per week come through our clinic from various doctors worldwide. I don't see any entertainment value here.

[image].


CITNews and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck




CITNews is located in ALPHARETTA and he is available to meet: NO

---
CITNews works for Dr. Cole's clinic in Atlanta
Cole Hair Transplant
Phone 678-566-1011
FREE CONSULTATION


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 20:08

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

You are comparing that scar to this guy 10 days post?? I think it's obvious the difference between a butcher STRIP job and these two results of the donor.

Video of FUE - 1mm punch scarring shaved head http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qeBmJAJ8I

10 days post 3500 grafts - [image][/img]


Not sure how this proves poor donor healing from ARTAS FUE - but I agree that's a brutal scar :)




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
CITNews

Alpharetta,
13.11.2013, 20:33

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

The attached photo is the above mega-strip scar, excised, 1 day post-op. A .85 punch was used. The two photos on the right are of a different patient's extraction sites. The lower photo is 3 months post-op. Even under magnification, I could only find one of the 12 extraction sites as indicated by the blue arrow. Because the image is magnified, one might think there are wide spaces between the follicular units. Note the white arrows. The white arrows indicate natural spaces where there were never any grafts removed. This is what can be achieved through minimal-depth extraction and by using a physician directed, smaller punch as opposed to larger robot directed punches. ACell doesn't always eliminate hypopigmentation but it certainly improves the appearance of donor areas. ACell is approved by the FDA as a regenerative product and we have seen up to 70% follicle regeneration using ACell with minimal depth extraction and the average regeneration of about 50%.


[image]

CITNews also posts as 35YrsAfter and works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice.
Please feel free to call or email me with any questions. Ask for Chuck




CITNews is located in ALPHARETTA and he is available to meet: NO

---
CITNews works for Dr. Cole's clinic in Atlanta
Cole Hair Transplant
Phone 678-566-1011
FREE CONSULTATION


Post reply
CITNews

Alpharetta,
13.11.2013, 20:46

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Originally Posted by Sure Hair Transplants

You are comparing that scar to this guy 10 days post??


No not at all. A rep dropped into this thread and appeared to be entertained (see above animation).

CITNews works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice
e




CITNews is located in ALPHARETTA and he is available to meet: NO

---
CITNews works for Dr. Cole's clinic in Atlanta
Cole Hair Transplant
Phone 678-566-1011
FREE CONSULTATION


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
13.11.2013, 21:22

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Those before and afters were impressive. See - I looked at the photos, they were good and I said so. Can you not look at the before and after of 3500 FUE with ARTAS - only 10 days post and not admit what is obvious - that the donor looks AMAZING! Or how about the video with a completely skin shaved donor where there is barely any scarring - again. Nothing personal - but how can you say there is going to be horrible donor scarring when clearly there is not even only 10 days post. Again, I just look at before and afters and comment on proof and reality. I understand you can't endorse ARTAS, but just because you don't like the technology does not take away from the fact the scarring - 10 days out is AMAZING. FAR FAR FAR FAR superior to ANY STRIP surgery.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
CITNews

Alpharetta,
13.11.2013, 23:42

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

I watched the video you posted of your 1500 graft case. Did he have 1500 grafts removed and placed over the course of 2 surgeries? in the video, you showed about 2/3 of the donor extraction sites. Liberally, with a counting incision device we could count 333 extraction sites. There surely weren't 1167 extractions taken from the remaining 1/3 on the right side?

[image]

CITNews works at Dr. Cole's office
forhair.com
Cole Hair Transplant
1045 Powers Place
Alpharetta, Georgia 30009
Phone 678-566-1011
I am not a doctor and the content of my posts are my opinions, not medical advice




CITNews is located in ALPHARETTA and he is available to meet: NO

---
CITNews works for Dr. Cole's clinic in Atlanta
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Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
14.11.2013, 01:21

@ CITNews

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Wow. You equate a a FUE surgery to a brutal STRIP surgery, suggest it needs repair - when by the way some of the founding fore fathers of FUE not only embrace but USE and practice ARTAS FUE in their clinic, then when I post amazing 10 days post FUE results you refuse to address them and then try so slam our FUE work? The issue is that anyone who reads this thread will see REAL PHOTOS AND REAL RESULTS - and that my friends counts for any of your unreal thoughts and ideas about bad scarring, and whatever negative reviews you have. We do great work. PROOF is in video.

333 grafts eh? (I'm Canadian so we use EH). I'll answer this simply via the following. Does this before and after look like 333 grafts? Didn't think so :)

Why does it bother you so much that we can do great work? Because it's not your shared view? Either way the result speaks for itself.

[image]

I love this thread because you talk about a repair and then can't address the undeniable fact that those 3500 grafts are not visible only 10 days out. I am still waiting for you to bring any VIDEO/PHOTO and proof to validate anything you have said - which to this point - for the record you have not.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Dr. Cole

Atlanta, Ga,
14.11.2013, 06:18

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

The comment relates to the number of extraction sites that are visible in post surgery photos. At best, he can see a little over 300 extraction sites. That's a long way from 1500 extraction sites.

I don't think it's possible to suggest that FUE done by any means leaves an undetectable donor area in all instances. when one claims to extract 1500 grafts, but they extract far fewer grafts (in this instance about 333 in 75% of the donor area), they are asking for trouble. People are not fools. Those of us who have been doing this a long time certainly are not fools. When we can look at a donor area and we see a widely scattered extraction pattern that is not consistent with 1500 grafts extracted, you are asking for trouble. Are we supposed to believe you or our lying eyes?

Look, it is impossible to comment on the before and after photo in this instance. In the before photo there is a hint that there is some pre-existing hair along the hairline that has been trimmed down and obscured by over exposure. The hair in the before is much shorter. The hair in the after is longer. It is clear that some grafts were placed in the peaks as these grafts are clearly obvious. In front of these larger grafts are some finer, lighter hairs. Grafted hairs should all be the same color and darker rather than lighter. The curtains don't match the carpet in this case. The longer hair alone in the after photos can make this NW 2 look like he has far more hair. In other words, you have to do better than this to convince an expert in the field of surgically treating hair loss. You need much better before and after photos. Furthermore, if you want to be taken seriously, don't show a donor area that had no more than 350 grafts taken from the 75% we can see and pass it off as a donor area where 1500 grafts were harvested. And….yes we can see hypopigmented extraction sites in your donor area. It is not surprising that we can see them, but there are certainly fewer than 1500. If you had harvested 1500 grafts, we might be impressed. In that you did not harvest 1500 grafts, and you claimed to have harvested 1500 grafts we have to question you.

An average donor area in a Caucasian male has about 15,200 follicular units in the safe donor area. A maximal harvest in a single pass consists of about 25% of the donor area. That is far less than the 5000 grafts you claim to have harvested in this individual. Now, you did extend your harvest outside the safe donor area primarily in the mid-occipital area. However, you did not extend enough to have harvested 5000 grafts. Moreover, your extraction pattern is not maximal. It is closer to 10% rather than 25% of the donor area as many areas are skipped altogether. Now add to this that you claim the patient is 60 years old. The Artas is not indicated for use in non-pigmented hair. You can dye the hair, but you can't dye all of it. Also, dying the hair will leave a dark pigment on the skin that one can see. We don't see this. To achieve 5000 grafts, you would have to maximally harvest the donor area. In that the Artas cannot see white hair, even if you did dye the hair, you can't dye all of it so it's impossible for the Artas to maximally harvest a patient with white hair. When you add to this photos where you claim to have harvested 1500 grafts, but in 75% of the donor area you chose to exhibit, we see no more than 350 extraction sites. Now, if I add to this that in the best of hands, it is possible to harvest 5000 grafts, but you will see 5000 extraction sites. The individual patient where you can harvest 5000 grafts from the safe donor area in a single pass makes up less than 5% of all hair transplant patients. Your patient would have to be in the top 1 to 5% of all patient donor areas to harvest 5000 grafts in a single pass. Yet, as men mature, they tend to loose follicular density rather than increase follicular density. To achieve 5000 grafts with an Artas, you would have needed to attempt over 6000 extractions and this becomes mathematically impossible. Nothing in your stories adds up.

I don't know if you are intentionally trying to mislead people or whether you are just plain dumb. Here are a couple of tips for you. In your videos, just show your results and talk about what really happened. Don't try to pass off a NW 6 as a guy heading to a NW7. Don't say a that all the hair on his head is from a transplant when it is clear that he started with a retained frontal tuft and that tuft is still there. You might fool a patient who does not know any better, but any seasoned veteran in hair transplant surgery knows that a retained frontal tuft always makes the result look much better than if they frontal tuft was not retained. Don't exaggerate your results to make it seem that your results are much better than what others with equal or more talent can achieve. Don't claim to have performed a world record type procedure, when it is clear that you have not. You are acting like a used car salesman and it shows. Tone it down just a little and I'm sure you will have a very successful life.




Dr. Cole is located in ATLANTA, GA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
John P. Cole, MD
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, GA 3009
678 566 1011
==
Dr. Cole is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
14.11.2013, 14:57

@ Dr. Cole

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

There is a lot of accusations here and I will reply to all of them. However, I want to be clear:

Dr. Cole. In all due respect. You wrote:

In average donor area in a Caucasian male has about 15,200 follicular units in the safe donor area. A maximal harvest in a single pass consists of about 25% of the donor area. That is far less than the 5000 grafts you claim to have harvested in this individual. Now, you did extend your harvest outside the safe donor area primarily in the mid-occipital area. However, you did not extend enough to have harvested 5000 grafts. Moreover, your extraction pattern is not maximal. It is closer to 10% rather than 25% of the donor area as many areas are skipped altogether."


I'll go with these numbers. In essence you are saying that if we had extracted 10% of the harvested area in the safe zone you are suggesting that would be around 1,500 grafts. In a gentleman who is older - who is outside the safety zone - you would agree, in your opinion - that he has probably no more than 25,000 grafts in this area - so you are suggesting we pulled around 2500 grafts give or take?? I just want to clarify what you are suggesting the amount of grafts we extracted were.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
14.11.2013, 19:13

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Luckily I do have photos :)

If you read the previous posts, you will see what this pertains to.

Here are the 1500 FUE photos. We were testing a 1mm punch with this gentleman prior to purchasing the ARTAS to see how the healing would be. The photo in the Youtube Video here --http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8qeBmJAJ8I

Shows this patient after his first day of surgery. We chose this photo because in the post second day we used gauze. That being said you can see the photo here of this gentleman after his first day, donor.


[image]

This is a photo of the gentleman on the morning of his SECOND day of surgery.

[image]

This is the photo of the gentleman post second day in the recipient. You can see - very simply that there are far more than 500 grafts place. We drilled PRECISELY 1500 grafts and planted abour 1250-1350. This patient was done in early 2012, so I am looking to find out the exact planted graft count. This patient was also informed that the survival rate might be lower and was provided the exact graft count.

[image]

You can see above the gauze around his head in the after second day and sadly, around the back of his head. Nonetheless the recipient shows the amount of grafts and no doubt 1500 "attempts" were had. Thus in the video above, you can see how impressive the results are regarding scarring.

[image]

As mentioned before I like facts and photos :)




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
14.11.2013, 19:18

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Just to also advise everyone that I we are obtaining a copy of the 5000 graft FUE case from ARTAS which STATES, PRECISELY how many punches were extracted in the case in this thread.

I honestly believe that slamming someone, and taking personal shots, just because you believe something different is extremely unprofessional. We have proof. Real numbers and that is far more important than any persons "perception"

Furthermore. This article here --> http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-114196.html

You can read from Dr. James Harris the reality on the Robot as follows:

Dear Dr. Cole:

I appreciate your comments and concerns however it’s obvious that many of your statements, and the conclusions drawn from them, are based on incorrect notions and ignorance about of some of the basic facts regarding the ARTAS System. There are numerous instances of these lapses, and in fact too many to address, but in the body of your text below I will attempt to provide explanations IN RED about some of your misperceptions and mischaracterizations of the ARTAS System and the physicians using the system.

Respectfully,
James Harris, MD, FACS


Ziering Medical video series: ARTAS automated hair transplant (Hair Transplant)
posted by Dr. Cole , Atlanta, Ga, 14.01.2013, 20:07


The mean follicle transection rate is 8% with the robot. That means some times it will be over 15%. And sometimes it will be 1%. In fact the usual range is 2-12%

In my opinion, a mean rate of 8% is too high, but when the rate soars over 10%, you should look for ways to bring the transection amputation rate down. There in lies a major problem with Artas physicians. THE ARTAS PHYSICIANS FOR THE MOST PART DON’T KNOW HOW TO DO FUE SO WHEN THINGS GO TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET WITH THEIR ROBOTIC EXTRACTIONS; THEY HAVE NOTHING TO OFFER OTHER THAN AN UNACCEPTABLY HIGH ARTAS T-RATE. Transection rates are by no means the gold standard in assessing the success of a particular technique. The problem is that you may have a case with a very low transection rate (say less than 4%) but the patient has poor growth (and you cannot possibly deny this has ever happened to you) so obviously there were other factors that contributed to the failure and most of these relate to graft handling. During graft extraction from the skin, especially with limited depth sharp dissection, excessive crushing trauma can be inflicted on the follicles that will affect growth. Technicians can mishandle the grafts and cause desiccation or trauma during insertion. The loss of grafts from these factors can make an 8% transection rate pale in comparison.
What the ARTAS System and it’s blunt punch dissection technique offers is a deeper level of dissection which means less tethering and therefore less force and less trauma during graft removal. The other factor is that on the average the system creates grafts with more fat and connective tissues around the follicles which has been shown in studies to be beneficial to graft survival. These factors allow good hair restoration surgeons to provide the highest quality FUE results. The ARTAS System is a tool, an instrument, for conducting FUE and you can’t logically ascribe unethical intentions or “disinterest” on the part of the physicians that use it.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
14.11.2013, 19:20

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

As mentioned and acknowledged by those using the ARTAS the transection rate in many cases are under 8%. This patient above in no exception.

Thus, based upon the above, one does not need to extract 6000 grafts in order successfully pull 5000 grafts (this would suggest the transection rate to be around 20% which is completely false).


This is reality. Fact. Truth.

:)




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
cal

14.11.2013, 21:12

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Regarding the post-op donor area pic with 300 / 1500 grafts debate:

I see only a few hundred little red scabs. But I see way more than 300 spots in that guy's donor zone which appear to be missing a graft and looking kinda pink. Perhaps not every graft extraction hole was wearing a crimson red scab at the time of the pic.




Random question about the ARTAS:


Does this robot have the capacity to do "low depth extractions" in any way? Like perhaps an adjustable setting in the future if not already built in today?

I don't wish to derail the discussion into a debate about donor regeneration. But GENERALLY SPEAKING there seems to be an increasing amount of evidence throughout the HT world that some donor site regrowth is possible in the right circumstances. I'm asking if the ARTAS has the potential to take advantage of this phenomenon in the future or if its method of action rules it out.




cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Sure Hair Transplants

E-mail

Toronto, Ontario, Canada,
14.11.2013, 21:52
(edited by Sure Hair Transplants, 14.11.2013, 22:23)

@ cal

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Hi Cal:

You wrote

"Regarding the post-op donor area pic with 300 / 1500 grafts debate:

I see only a few hundred little red scabs. But I see way more than 300 spots in that guy's donor zone which appear to be missing a graft and looking kinda pink. Perhaps not every graft extraction hole was wearing a crimson red scab at the time of the pic."

Thanks for the comment and posting the obvious :)


You wrote

Random question about the ARTAS:

Does this robot have the capacity to do "low depth extractions" in any way? Like perhaps an adjustable setting in the future if not already built in today?

I don't wish to derail the discussion into a debate about donor regeneration. But GENERALLY SPEAKING there seems to be an increasing amount of evidence throughout the HT world that some donor site regrowth is possible in the right circumstances. I'm asking if the ARTAS has the potential to take advantage of this phenomenon in the future or if its method of action rules it out.


To my knowledge - and speak frequently with them - the answer is no as far as low depth extraction. They are currently building an extension on the machine to make recipient sites - this seems to be where the next step is going as far as the ARTAS.

At the end of the day - the ARTAS is a tool sold by a company to make money - and unless there is definitive evidence that donor regeneration is possible, it would be bas business on their end to take such a step. This is of course only my opinion.


We have been paying close attention to donor regeneration with those mentioned on this site and have actually emailed them to see if we may be able to work together but have yet to hear back. I'll keep you posted.




Sure Hair Transplants is located in TORONTO, ONTARIO, CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Paul-Joseph
Telephone #1-877-444-7873
Email: hairtransplants@surehair.com
Website: surehairtransplants.com
Sure Hair Transplants
Toronto, Ontario Canada


Post reply
Dr. Cole

Atlanta, Ga,
16.11.2013, 04:53

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Let me make this clear. You are dishonest in your presentation of the Artas and your procedures. All Artas physicians now recognize that the number of excision attempts is well below the number of grafts removed. This is the missed graft rate. you are not a physician so you have no clue what you are doing or what you are producing. Why would Artas sell a device to a non-physician? I don't have a clue.

Anyway, Artas has many problems. One of them is the missed graft rate. The other is the transected follicle rate. The other is the transected graft rate. Who is paying for all of these mistakes? Patients!.

i think you feel that I'm attacking the Artas because i make my own equipment. Let me make this clear. Artas never came out with a good product before they began marketing their robot. I made 5 versions before i ever marketed a single version or even used a single version. The simple fact is that good equipment will do a good job. Bad equipment will do a bad job. One cannot turn something bad into good. This is true in many ways. i can put my great equipment in the hands of bad surgeons all day long and they will not do a good job. Only good surgeons can make great equipment work well. When you have poor hands, you have no choice. You have to go to the poor option or the Artas. If the doctor is bad, he buys the Artas. If the doctor is good, he buys a better product. A great product cannot turn a bad doctor into a good doctor. A bad product like the Arats cannot turn a bad doctor into good because the product was bad to begin with.

I do not think I have run into any individual on the forums to date that I would label as someone whose name begins with L and ends with R with an A and I in the middle though not necessarily in that order. Sure hair, i think you are the first poster I've met in a moderated forum with such a designation. I would not walk from you clinic. I would run from it.

Now, if you want to involve Craig Ziering or Jim Harris in this conversation, since you want to toss them into the mix, feel free to do so. I'd love to hear their comments about your absurd claims to have done a 5000 graft FUE case with the Artas. If they substantiate your claims, we can then begin to have a very serious conversation. I highly doubt that either is dumb enough to back your ridiculous claims especially based on your absurd photos that you feel are supportive despite the fact that your photos clearly refute all of your claims.




Dr. Cole is located in ATLANTA, GA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
John P. Cole, MD
1070 Powers Place
Alpharetta, GA 3009
678 566 1011
==
Dr. Cole is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Dr. Arvind

Homepage E-mail

New Delhi, India,
18.11.2013, 10:11

@ Sure Hair Transplants

2 things at a talk at ESHRS about the robot

Dear readers,
There are just 2 pieces of information I would like to share.

In ESHRS (European society of hair transplant surgery) meeting some time ago, the ARTAS marketing rep gave a presentation about their robot.

They said its FDA approved and a beneficial (I forget the exact word) to any hair transplant doctor's practice.

Seems a fair enough statement?!
But I asked them 2 questions -

1. You know ARTAS is approved only for straight, fine calibre brown hair? So why are you not mentioning this tiny detail here. Its not approved for any other hair type.
Giving part information to doctors could land them in trouble with their patients.
(I do not remember his exact reply, but suffice to say, he did not talk to me for the next 2 days).

2. I asked did ARTAS give meaningful improvement for an HT doctor who IS an expert already.
The reply was that Dr. Harris evaluated the ARTAS and his own method and found no meaningful improvement.


So, I raised a question, wouldn't it be better to learn all aspects of HT surgery from an expert (not cheap 2 day workshops), learn all the aspects of HT for an year at let us say USD 1,00,000/- rather than pay USD 2,50,000?- for a so called robot and end up paying additional USD 1/- for every time the robotic punch goes in whether it gets an intact graft.

You guessed correct... I got no reply.
Regards,
Dr. A

P.S. - If you think there are any inaccuracies in my above post, please remember this conversation was not private but carried out in front of the entire ESHRS conference.




Dr. Arvind is located in NEW DELHI, INDIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Dr.(Capt) Arvind Poswal
A-9,First Floor,
C.R. Park, (Near Nehru Place),
New Delhi-110019, India. www.fusehair.com
e-mail: fusehair1@gmail.com
Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
Hours-10a.m.to 5p.m
Scalp & Body hair transplants
facebook - arvind poswal
Results- www.fusehair.com/image
===
Dr. Arvind Poswal is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
HMorHT

19.11.2013, 17:14

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Originally Posted by Sure Hair Transplants

Those before and afters were impressive. See - I looked at the photos, they were good and I said so. Can you not look at the before and after of 3500 FUE with ARTAS - only 10 days post and not admit what is obvious - that the donor looks AMAZING! Or how about the video with a completely skin shaved donor where there is barely any scarring - again. Nothing personal - but how can you say there is going to be horrible donor scarring when clearly there is not even only 10 days post. Again, I just look at before and afters and comment on proof and reality. I understand you can't endorse ARTAS, but just because you don't like the technology does not take away from the fact the scarring - 10 days out is AMAZING. FAR FAR FAR FAR superior to ANY STRIP surgery.


I am not a doctor but I have seen and read enough to know that the white dots do not appear right away 10 days after surgery. You need to wait a year or longer, then shave the patient's head and see what happens to his donor. That will be the real proof.




HMorHT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
HMorHT

19.11.2013, 17:39

@ Dr. Arvind

2 things at a talk at ESHRS about the robot

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

1. You know ARTAS is approved only for straight, fine calibre brown hair? So why are you not mentioning this tiny detail here. Its not approved for any other hair type.



Isn't that interesting!!! Thanks for sharing Dr. Arvind. I didn't even know that they needed FDA approval for the robot.




HMorHT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
HairSite

Homepage E-mail

20.11.2013, 17:00

@ Sure Hair Transplants

MEGA session - 5000 ARTAS FUE- ONE DAY Surgery - More grafts than STRIP

Originally Posted by Sure Hair Transplants

Wow. You equate a a FUE surgery to a brutal STRIP surgery, suggest it needs repair - when by the way some of the founding fore fathers of FUE not only embrace but USE and practice ARTAS FUE in their clinic


To be fair and let's give credit where credit is due, there is only ONE inventor of FUE and it is Dr. Ray Woods.




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email: hairsite@aol.com for a free consultation
=====================================
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Post reply
Dr. Arvind

Homepage E-mail

New Delhi, India,
20.11.2013, 17:03

@ HairSite

Not true about inventor of fue

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.




Dr. Arvind is located in NEW DELHI, INDIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Dr.(Capt) Arvind Poswal
A-9,First Floor,
C.R. Park, (Near Nehru Place),
New Delhi-110019, India. www.fusehair.com
e-mail: fusehair1@gmail.com
Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
Hours-10a.m.to 5p.m
Scalp & Body hair transplants
facebook - arvind poswal
Results- www.fusehair.com/image
===
Dr. Arvind Poswal is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
HairSite

Homepage E-mail

20.11.2013, 17:30

@ Dr. Arvind

Not true about inventor of fue

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?




HairSite is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
HairSite.com
email: hairsite@aol.com for a free consultation
=====================================
reminder:
1. Scalp Micro Pigmentation - the latest in hair restoration.
1. Hairmax Lasercomb: medical device cleared by the US FDA
2. Instant Hair Thickening Fibers - 10 PACK DEEP DISCOUNT PROMO
3. Privacy Statement & Terms of Use


Post reply
Dr. Arvind

Homepage E-mail

New Delhi, India,
21.11.2013, 07:22

@ HairSite

Not true about inventor of fue

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.

Originally Posted by HairSite


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?


Dr Okuda, Japan .




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Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
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Post reply
damraak

22.11.2013, 06:22

@ Dr. Arvind

Not true about inventor of fue

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.

Originally Posted by HairSite


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dr Okuda, Japan .


I have never heard of Dr. Okuda before, Dr. Woods always says that he is the inventor of FUE, it's even on his website, how did he manage to get away with this for so many years?




damraak is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
licht

22.11.2013, 06:54

@ Dr. Arvind

Not true about inventor of fue

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.

Originally Posted by HairSite


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dr Okuda, Japan .


Surely you are not talking about Shoji Okuda, who died in 1962, whose works were not even translated into English until the 2000s.

http://blog.americanhairloss.org/hair-loss/history-hair-transplant-surgery/

He was obviously pioneering but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that his work led to FUE as the commercially viable it is today.




licht is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
hairdar

22.11.2013, 19:42

@ Dr. Arvind

Not true about inventor of fue

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.

Originally Posted by HairSite


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dr Okuda, Japan .


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840892/

[1] The technique was in fact much older than this and Japanese dermatologists Sasagawa,[2] Okuda,[3] Tamura[4] and Fujita[5] were using small autografts containing hair follicles for the correction of scars and cicatricial alopecias. It is not known whether they used these techniques for the correction of androgenetic alopecia, but if they did, they certainly did not mention it in their medical papers. In any case their publications, written in Japanese did not reach Western eyes for decades.




hairdar is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
George Taylor: There's your Minister of Science; honor-bound to expand the frontiers of knowledge...
Dr. Zira: Taylor, please!
George Taylor: ...except that he's also chief Defender of the Faith!
Dr. Zaius: There is no contradiction between faith and science... true science!
George Taylor: Are you willing to put that statement to the test?
Cornelius: Taylor, I would much rather...
George Taylor: Take it easy... you saved me from this fanatic, maybe I can return the favor!


Post reply
Dr. Arvind

Homepage E-mail

New Delhi, India,
24.11.2013, 17:47

@ licht

Let Dr Woods say he does not know Dr Okuda's work

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.

Originally Posted by HairSite


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dr Okuda, Japan .

Originally Posted by licht


Surely you are not talking about Shoji Okuda, who died in 1962, whose works were not even translated into English until the 2000s.

http://blog.americanhairloss.org/hair-loss/history-hair-transplant-surgery/

He was obviously pioneering but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that his work led to FUE as the commercially viable it is today.


Dear licht,
Am I missing something here?
The person who does a technique first is the inventor. The people who come later to popularize/reinvent the technique can be called pioneers at best.

Lets not put the cart in front of the horse.

1. Were the Japanese patients not consumers?
2. Did the Japanese doctors not invent and make it available to their Japanese patients in 1930s.
3. If a person not conversant in the Japanese language does not come to know about this does NOT take the credit away from the rightful inventor.

4. Truly, I do feel sad that Dr. Woods did not acknowledge this fact himself. In his place most others would have acknowledged this little fact which I assume he knows.

If he wants to say he was not aware of Dr Okuda till 5 years ago (just for example),I would like him to write it here himself.

Regards,
Dr. A




Dr. Arvind is located in NEW DELHI, INDIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Dr.(Capt) Arvind Poswal
A-9,First Floor,
C.R. Park, (Near Nehru Place),
New Delhi-110019, India. www.fusehair.com
e-mail: fusehair1@gmail.com
Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
Hours-10a.m.to 5p.m
Scalp & Body hair transplants
facebook - arvind poswal
Results- www.fusehair.com/image
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Dr. Arvind Poswal is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Dr. Arvind

Homepage E-mail

New Delhi, India,
24.11.2013, 17:53

@ hairdar

Not true about inventor of fue

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.

Originally Posted by HairSite


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dr Okuda, Japan .

Originally Posted by hairdar


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2840892/

[1] The technique was in fact much older than this and Japanese dermatologists Sasagawa,[2] Okuda,[3] Tamura[4] and Fujita[5] were using small autografts containing hair follicles for the correction of scars and cicatricial alopecias. It is not known whether they used these techniques for the correction of androgenetic alopecia, but if they did, they certainly did not mention it in their medical papers. In any case their publications, written in Japanese did not reach Western eyes for decades.



And my question, just why is so important that it did not reach the Western eyes?

An invention is an invention. Too bad if Western people did not know the language. That is no reason to take the credit away from the original inventor.
Sorry, but I do not buy this line of argument.




Dr. Arvind is located in NEW DELHI, INDIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Dr.(Capt) Arvind Poswal
A-9,First Floor,
C.R. Park, (Near Nehru Place),
New Delhi-110019, India. www.fusehair.com
e-mail: fusehair1@gmail.com
Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
Hours-10a.m.to 5p.m
Scalp & Body hair transplants
facebook - arvind poswal
Results- www.fusehair.com/image
===
Dr. Arvind Poswal is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
licht

24.11.2013, 19:00

@ Dr. Arvind

Let Dr Woods say he does not know Dr Okuda's work

All right. Let's play this game.


[postedby]Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dear licht,
Am I missing something here?
The person who does a technique first is the inventor. The people who come later to popularize/reinvent the technique can be called pioneers at best.

Lets not put the cart in front of the horse.

1. Were the Japanese patients not consumers?



Please demonstrate any sort of definitive evidence that Japanese patients received something equivalent to modern FUE from Dr. Okuda.



2. Did the Japanese doctors not invent and make it available to their Japanese patients in 1930s.


See above.


3. If a person not conversant in the Japanese language does not come to know about this does NOT take the credit away from the rightful inventor.


You seem to have missed the point. While it's almost certain that Dr. Okuda was doing ground-breaking work, and was pioneering in the field of hair replacement surgery, I don't believe there is any evidence whatsoever that he was performing single graft FUE surgery for male pattern baldness as we know it today. Even if he were, it did not lead the to the viable commercial procedure which we are using today, which was pioneered in the early 1990s (as far as I know). The surgery that you are doing today doesn't come from Dr. Okuda. It comes from transplant doctors such as Woods in the last couple of decades.


4. Truly, I do feel sad that Dr. Woods did not acknowledge this fact himself. In his place most others would have acknowledged this little fact which I assume he knows.

I don't really know who you are, or if there is some sort of personal or professional conflict going on here, but it seems obvious that you are clutching at straws to take credit away from Woods for his part in pioneering FUE.

Anyway, please cite source material, in either Japanese or English, that conclusively shows that Dr Okuda was performing hair restoration surgery in the 1930s for male pattern baldness that is the equivalent of today's FUE, and that this led to or had influence on developments in transplant surgery that occurred decades later.




licht is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
hairdar

24.11.2013, 21:47
(edited by hairdar, 24.11.2013, 22:03)

@ Dr. Arvind

Let Dr Woods say he does not know Dr Okuda's work

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind

Not true at all. Woods was/is not inventor of fue.

Originally Posted by HairSite


Dr. Arvind, can you let us know who was the first doctor who invented FUE as a commercially viable mainstream treatment for hair loss?

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dr Okuda, Japan .

Originally Posted by licht


Surely you are not talking about Shoji Okuda, who died in 1962, whose works were not even translated into English until the 2000s.

http://blog.americanhairloss.org/hair-loss/history-hair-transplant-surgery/

He was obviously pioneering but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that his work led to FUE as the commercially viable it is today.

Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dear licht,
Am I missing something here?
The person who does a technique first is the inventor. The people who come later to popularize/reinvent the technique can be called pioneers at best.

Lets not put the cart in front of the horse.

1. Were the Japanese patients not consumers?
2. Did the Japanese doctors not invent and make it available to their Japanese patients in 1930s.
3. If a person not conversant in the Japanese language does not come to know about this does NOT take the credit away from the rightful inventor.

4. Truly, I do feel sad that Dr. Woods did not acknowledge this fact himself. In his place most others would have acknowledged this little fact which I assume he knows.

If he wants to say he was not aware of Dr Okuda till 5 years ago (just for example),I would like him to write it here himself.

Regards,
Dr. A


http://www.fusehair.com/about_us

About us

Dr. (ex-Capt) Arvind Poswal

Dr. Arvind Poswal, MBBS (AFMC), is widely regarded as one of the best hair transplant surgeon in the world. He is the inventor of the FUSE technique and instrumentation and has pioneered many of the latest advances in hair restoration surgeries.




hairdar is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
George Taylor: There's your Minister of Science; honor-bound to expand the frontiers of knowledge...
Dr. Zira: Taylor, please!
George Taylor: ...except that he's also chief Defender of the Faith!
Dr. Zaius: There is no contradiction between faith and science... true science!
George Taylor: Are you willing to put that statement to the test?
Cornelius: Taylor, I would much rather...
George Taylor: Take it easy... you saved me from this fanatic, maybe I can return the favor!


Post reply
HairSite

Homepage E-mail

25.11.2013, 06:29

@ HairSite

Inventor of FUE hair transplant

Dr. Okuda invented punch-graft technique. Let's see if punch graft fits the definition of FUE as we know it today.

It is universally accepted that in order to be labeled as FUE, the doctor performing the procedure must accomplish the following (or at least has the intention of accomplishing the following):


1) Minimally Invasive - contrary to FUE, the old punch-graft technique was as invasive as it can get for the patient's well being. As a matter of fact, the punch-graft technique was so intrusive that the patient's donor site was commonly referred to as bullet holes. See picture below.

Picture taken from http://www.angelfire.com/indie/hairtransplant/consult.html for illustration purposes.
[image]


2) Little or No Visible Scars - One of the indisputable benefits of FUE is that it produces little or no visible scars. The objective of the invention was to offer patients an alternative to unsightly strip scars and allow patients the luxury of wearing their hair short.

But based on the picture above, clearly this was not something that punch-graft technique could accomplish by any stretch of imagination.


3) Single Follicular Unit Extraction - in order to be labeled as FUE, the technique must also be capable of isolating a single follicular unit for extraction. This is also the beauty of FUE as it allows the doctor to cherry pick the follicular units that are best suited for the patient's needs. In contrast, punch-graft adopts a one size fits all technique in harvesting. The picture below shows what a typical punch graft looks like.

Picture taken via external link from New Hair Institute website (http://www.newhair.com/procedures/fut/strip-harvesting/). Below is for illustration purposes only and do NOT represent the work of NHI.
[image]


Based on the above, it is obvious that punch-graft embodies none of the essence of FUE and does not fit the definition of FUE as we know it today. Punch graft was born in a different era with radically different objectives serving substantially different goals and expectations.

It would be a bit far fetched to attribute Dr Okuda as the inventor of FUE that is commonly performed nowadays.




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Post reply
Dr. Arvind

Homepage E-mail

New Delhi, India,
25.11.2013, 11:14

@ HairSite

Inventor of FUE hair transplant

Originally Posted by HairSite

Dr. Okuda invented punch-graft technique.

It is universally accepted that in order to be labeled as FUE, the doctor performing the procedure must accomplish the following (or at least has the intention of accomplishing the following):


1) Minimally Invasive - contrary to FUE, the old punch-graft technique was as invasive as it can get for the patient's well being. As a matter of fact, the punch-graft technique was so intrusive that the patient's donor site was commonly referred to as bullet holes. See picture below.

Picture taken from http://www.angelfire.com/indie/hairtransplant/consult.html for illustration purposes.
[image]


2) Little or No Visible Scars - One of the indisputable benefits of FUE is that it produces little or no visible scars. The objective of the invention was to offer patients an alternative to the unsightly strip scars and allow patients the luxury of wearing their hair short.

But based on the picture above, clearly this was not something that punch-graft technique could accomplish by any stretch of imagination.


3) Single Follicular Unit Extraction - in order to be labeled as FUE, the technique must also be capable of isolating a single follicular unit for extraction. This is also the beauty of FUE as it allows the doctor to cherry pick the follicular units that are best suited for the patient's needs. In contrast, punch-graft adopts a one size fits all technique in harvesting. The picture below shows what a typical punch graft looks like.

Picture taken via external link from New Hair Institute website (http://www.newhair.com/procedures/fut/strip-harvesting/). Below is for illustration purposes only and do NOT represent the work of NHI.
[image]


Based on the above, it is obvious that punch-graft embodies none of the essence of FUE and does not fit the definition of FUE as we know it today. Punch graft was born in a different era with radically different objectives serving substantially different goals and expectations.

It would be a bit far fetched to attribute Dr Okuda as the inventor of FUE that is commonly performed nowadays.



Dear Hairsite,

You are quoting from blogs when you quote angelfire.
Is the picture that you have shown a work of Dr. Okuda?

I have known all these years that you keep a balanced and open perspective. So, please consult the textbooks and old journals of hair restoration before posting material like this.

I hope I do not have to be more explicit.
Regards,
Dr. A




Dr. Arvind is located in NEW DELHI, INDIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Dr.(Capt) Arvind Poswal
A-9,First Floor,
C.R. Park, (Near Nehru Place),
New Delhi-110019, India. www.fusehair.com
e-mail: fusehair1@gmail.com
Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
Hours-10a.m.to 5p.m
Scalp & Body hair transplants
facebook - arvind poswal
Results- www.fusehair.com/image
===
Dr. Arvind Poswal is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Dr. Arvind

Homepage E-mail

New Delhi, India,
25.11.2013, 11:26

@ licht

Let Dr Woods say he does not know Dr Okuda's work

All right. Let's play this game.

[postedby]
[postedby] I don't believe there is any evidence whatsoever that he was performing single graft FUE surgery for male pattern baldness as we know it today.

I don't really know who you are,


Dear Licht,
The above 2 sentences of yours are sufficient for me. You seem not to know me but do seem to believe there is no evidence of DR. Okuda performing fue (by whatever name).

That convinces me that I do not need to answer you.

----------------------------

As for the genuine readers... a simple analogy
Edison invented the electric bulb
Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone

(Samsung did not invent the telephone nor do they claim too - ethical behavior)

Its easy to get the drift if a person wants to. Paid shills can come up with loads of sentences etc., but sorry I am not going to waste my time on this.

------------------------------
For genuine readers, all they have to do is read up some comprehensive textbooks on hair transplants and they will know that what I am saying is correct.

Regards,
Dr. A




Dr. Arvind is located in NEW DELHI, INDIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Dr.(Capt) Arvind Poswal
A-9,First Floor,
C.R. Park, (Near Nehru Place),
New Delhi-110019, India. www.fusehair.com
e-mail: fusehair1@gmail.com
Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
Hours-10a.m.to 5p.m
Scalp & Body hair transplants
facebook - arvind poswal
Results- www.fusehair.com/image
===
Dr. Arvind Poswal is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
licht

25.11.2013, 14:17
(edited by licht, 25.11.2013, 14:38)

@ Dr. Arvind

Let Dr Woods say he does not know Dr Okuda's work



Originally Posted by Dr. Arvind


Dear Licht,
The above 2 sentences of yours are sufficient for me. You seem not to know me but do seem to believe there is no evidence of DR. Okuda performing fue (by whatever name).


I'm sorry. I don't quite get what you are saying here. Because I don't know your biography in detail, I am somehow not a "genuine reader".

I take it then you have no evidence whatsoever that Dr Okuda invented FUE as we know it today?

You've made an extraordinary claim, and I asked you a series of simply questions asking for proof of that claim. You offer none.

We don't want spurious analogies. Just prove what you are saying.

Sorry if that's not "genuine" enough for you.

Also, although it isn't in the slightest bit relevant, Edison didn't invent the light-bulb.




licht is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


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