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NoHairNoPrayer 02.10.2007, 00:01	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study (Hair Transplant) Thread locked
	Dr. Cole has some nice review of punch sizes in his website in the form of a study if interested: http://www.forhair.com/hairtransplant/topic1439.html NoHairNoPrayer is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
hairtech_ Denver, CO, 02.10.2007, 00:09 (edited by hairtech_, 02.10.2007, 00:33) @ NoHairNoPrayer	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	I think the study is interesting hairtech_ is located in DENVER, CO and he is available to meet: NO --- Hairtech
Heliboy Wilmington ,N.C, 02.10.2007, 11:33 @ hairtech_	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	All that I can say is I'm not sure what size punches were used on me at Dr Cole's office many years back for a small session. I came out with the 'white dot sydrome' from the extraction areas that had to be filled back in by Dr Umar . That accounts for a waste of time and alot of money on the patients part which should not be necessary. I can also attest to many -many that have contacted me over the years with the same white dot syndrome from his office but for some reason these people are scared to express that openly . I hope the size punch that was used in this study isnt the same that has consistently yielded the 'white dot syndrome' in the past. I can say that I have benefited from the 0.75mm and feel much better about it. If a doctor feels anything above that will not produce scarring and he is confident enough about it with a study - it should be put into writing and they are held accountable and required to fix the area of extraction at no charge 19,000 grafts by Dr Umar www.myhairtransformation.com Heliboy is located in WILMINGTON ,N.C and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
Dr. Cole 02.10.2007, 12:20 @ Heliboy	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Heliboy, we did your procedure in 2003 as I recall and I'll be happy to tell you the punch sizes we used if you want it disclosed. I recall we did some redistribution of some grafts, as well. I also recall you wanted more work from our office, but you went elsewhere when we could not match the 4.00 per graft price you wanted to pay. In other words, at one point you were quite happy with the results and wanted more. You also had far more pre-existing hair than you show in your pre-Umar surgery photos, but you were shaving the top of your head at the time. White dots are a known and unavoidable risk of FUE in general. No surgeon is immune from them. I've seen them in every patient who has come to my office from another FUE clinic. Regardless, I'm sorry to hear you were so distraught over them though you never expressed this to anyone in my office. If you really want to see some ugly scars, check out Luckyman's chest some time. He still has keloids. I've certainly never had a patient form keloids. I have plenty of stories I can pass along if you want to perpertuate this exchange. I've had plenty of patients who started at one clinic, but came to mine because results were more important that free or deeply discounted surgery. White dots are not white scars. they are an absence of hair and circulation. There is no such thing as a surgical procedure that leaves no evidence. Those who want to perpetuate the deceit that the smaller punch produces no evidence of surgery are essentially con men. the point of this study is quite clear. Punch size does not matter. If you feel better exclusively using a smaller punch, then that's a personal decision. We'll be happy to oblige you provided you sign a consent form acknowledgeing that the exclusive use of smaller punches carries a greater risk that you will have a poor result. We have far more results than those who consitently promote the smaller punch. We've done over 1000 cases and well over 1.2 million grafts. Patients come to us for results and we deliver. They do not come to us because we promote our procedures with smoke and mirrors or post-surgery photographs that are so small and fuzzy that one cannot accurately assess the results. Dr. Cole is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Duck 02.10.2007, 12:36 @ Dr. Cole	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	»You also had far more pre-existing hair than you show in your pre-Umar surgery photos, but you were shaving the top of your head at the time." I hope since this was brought up here. That these statements can be backed up with photo eviedence by Dr. Cole since it was brought up here for all to see. Patient of course would have to give permission for this. If not all this does is go back and forth. And we can accurately be able to judge final results better . Duck is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
marco U.K, 02.10.2007, 12:40 @ Dr. Cole	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» Heliboy, we did your procedure in 2003 as I recall and I'll be happy to » tell you the punch sizes we used if you want it disclosed. I recall we » did some redistribution of some grafts, as well. I also recall you wanted » more work from our office, but you went elsewhere when we could not match » the 4.00 per graft price you wanted to pay. In other words, at one point » you were quite happy with the results and wanted more. You also had far » more pre-existing hair than you show in your pre-Umar surgery photos, but » you were shaving the top of your head at the time. White dots are a known » and unavoidable risk of FUE in general. No surgeon is immune from them. » I've seen them in every patient who has come to my office from another FUE » clinic. Regardless, I'm sorry to hear you were so distraught over them » though you never expressed this to anyone in my office. If you really want » to see some ugly scars, check out Luckyman's chest some time. He still has » keloids. I've certainly never had a patient form keloids. I have plenty » of stories I can pass along if you want to perpertuate this exchange. I've » had plenty of patients who started at one clinic, but came to mine because » results were more important that free or deeply discounted surgery. » » White dots are not white scars. they are an absence of hair and » circulation. There is no such thing as a surgical procedure that leaves » no evidence. Those who want to perpetuate the deceit that the smaller » punch produces no evidence of surgery are essentially con men. » » the point of this study is quite clear. Punch size does not matter. If » you feel better exclusively using a smaller punch, then that's a personal » decision. We'll be happy to oblige you provided you sign a consent form » acknowledgeing that the exclusive use of smaller punches carries a greater » risk that you will have a poor result. We have far more results than those » who consitently promote the smaller punch. We've done over 1000 cases and » well over 1.2 million grafts. Patients come to us for results and we » deliver. They do not come to us because we promote our procedures with » smoke and mirrors or post-surgery photographs that are so small and fuzzy » that one cannot accurately assess the results. You know what, I am sick of pulling my punches on this site. Some of you surgeons come onto this site with the demeanour of brawling ally cats when challenged rather than self reflecting or answering genuine concerns. I am not sure that I want to tolerate it or participate in it much longer. marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO
Dr Umar   Redondo Beach, California, 02.10.2007, 14:54 @ Duck	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Do you mean these photos? The archive is replete with examples of dirty tactics by competing clinics. I am sure patients would rather not wait 5 years to determine outcome of their HT regardless of the donor source. S. Umar, M.D., FAAD DermHair Clinic Redondo Beach, California +1-310-318-1500 1-877-DERMHAIR (US residents) info@dermhairclinic.com NEW WEBSITE www.dermhairclinic.com Single Follicule Extraction & Transfer (SFET) Using Head and Body hair For more SFET-FUE and BHT results go to www.dermhairclinic.com Dr Umar is located in REDONDO BEACH, CALIFORNIA and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
Dr. Cole 02.10.2007, 18:59 @ Dr Umar	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Dr. Umar, there is no attempt at dirty tactics on my part. The point very simply is that all forms of FUE leave white dots in patients prone to these. Individuals with white hair will not get them usually and there are some others who do not get them. The risk is not predictable just like the risk of strip scar width is not predictable prior to surgery. The white dots are due to an absence of pigment and circulation rather than technique. White dots do not appear on the back or lower extremities. They occassionally appear on the chest. Someone has given this patient the opinion that my procedure caused him to form white dots and that it must be due to my technique. It certainly was not me. Since he did not ever bring this up to me prior to his procedure with you, one can only guess where he derived this conclusion. I certainly have no crystal ball. I have some very good photos showing quite a bit of density and none of this redness on the scalp. Was that prior to his procedure with you or after. If after, one would suspect quite a bit of shock loss. Incidentally, those pitted grafts were there prior to his work with me. They are not my handy work. Dr. Cole is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Dr. Cole 02.10.2007, 19:05 @ Dr. Cole	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	My work focused on the hair line and removal of some of the pitted grafts. In the end it is a good result and the patient is happy. That is what matters most. Dr. Cole is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Heliboy Wilmington ,N.C, 03.10.2007, 02:21 (edited by Heliboy, 03.10.2007, 02:37) @ Dr. Cole	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Dr Cole I appreciate you being thorough with the explanation of your study. I find it very hard to comprehend based on my own experiences that the variation in punch sizes does not have some impact on the potential of cosmetically visible dotting. In regards to the hairline work that you did the transplanted hair did grow in and was useful in front of my hairpiece at that time which was my goal. At that time before BHT became a viable option I thought I would have to wear an hairpiece the rest of my life and thought a natural hairline would offer some balance . I made no reference to that transplanted hair not growing and serving its purpose in front of my hairpiece . Since that time alot of work has been done to further restore my hairline since removal of my hairpiece following successful restoration . Any hair that I had prior to my BHT work was shown in my immediate before pic behind the hairline that you transplanted. I left the transplanted hairline you performed and the hair behind it uncut ,unshaved for the purpose of showing the variation of coverage that existed before I started my BHT restoration . You have helped many patients and this is well known . I responded to this thread based on the conclusion comments in your study stating punch sizes do not matter. The forums are used by many to research their options and stimulate questions/inquires /advantages /disadvantages for undergoing transplants . Your study provokes alot of thought which scares me to some extent for the potential candidate researching scarring potential with FUE but you have stated your study conclusions as you see them and have experienced . 19,000 grafts by Dr Umar www.myhairtransformation.com Heliboy is located in WILMINGTON ,N.C and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
GHI   03.10.2007, 15:07 @ Dr. Cole	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Dr. Cole, Very interesting study. If your FIT/CIT technique leaves the donor area without noticeable scarring or indication a graft has been removed, then why do you provide FIT farming to replace the harvested grafts. Why do you feel the need to replace the excised tissue if there is no indication you harvest from that area? GHI is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Global Hair Institute (866)530-HAIR info@globalhairinstitute.com www.globalhairinstitute.com
CIT 03.10.2007, 19:31 @ marco	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	I will be displaying donor and recipient photos over the next few posts. While some have been recommending small or smaller punches for over four years, IHTI has been putting up one result after another. This is a result of a 6102 graft FIT/CIT session. This surgery was performed with 5135 grafts extracted from the scalp and 967 grafts extracted from the body. A large number of follicular units were required to properly treat this individual's Class 6 hair loss pattern. In this case the follicular density of the donor area was slightly better than average (80-90 fu/cm2) which enabled a 5000+ scalp FIT harvest in a single pass. The remaining grafts were harvested from the legs and placed in the perimeter of the crown. The results are very impressing and the patient is very satisfied. Here are clear pre-operative and follow-up photos below. My advice is not medical advice. CIT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Toll Free: 800 368 4247 USA: 1 (678) 566-1011 Email: consults@forhair.com www.forhair.com
HairSite   03.10.2007, 20:03 @ GHI	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» Dr. Cole, » Very interesting study. If your FIT/CIT technique leaves the donor area » without noticeable scarring or indication a graft has been removed, then » why do you provide FIT farming to replace the harvested grafts. Why do » you feel the need to replace the excised tissue if there is no indication » you harvest from that area? Regardless of what size punch is used, once a graft is extracted, the donor density will be compromised. Hair farming will be useful for filling in the empty space between grafts and diminish the thinning look. HairSite is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- HairSite.com email: hairsite@aol.com for a free consultation ===================================== reminder: 1. StandUp2Cancer.org
GHI   03.10.2007, 22:49 @ CIT	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	CIT, Nice photos. May we see his procedure photos immediately post op for the scalp also? GHI is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Global Hair Institute (866)530-HAIR info@globalhairinstitute.com www.globalhairinstitute.com
CIT 03.10.2007, 22:53 @ CIT	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Here we have a class 3V with dark brown medium caliber hair and a medium skin tone. He has a follicular density of 90 at the left mastoid and a hair density of 210 at the left mastoid. He underwent a 3 day session of FIT to the frontal 1/3rd of his scalp. My advice is not medical advice CIT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Toll Free: 800 368 4247 USA: 1 (678) 566-1011 Email: consults@forhair.com www.forhair.com
NoHairNoPrayer 03.10.2007, 23:32 @ CIT	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	This is a good example of a patient (white hair with white skin) who would not get white dotting--at least not visible. The reason is simple, no contrast between the areas of hair and the areas of extraction, or absence of hair. That cannot be said of other patients with darker complexion and/or hair in the donor. The absence of hair will leave contrast to the naked eye and create the infamous white dotting. Again, it might not be true scarring, or any different whether 0.75 or 1.00 mm punch is used, but simply the contrast created by the absence of hair at various locations whereas the surroundings have hair. Natural thinning occurs in a pattern that usually does not create absence of hair contrast. However, donor harvesting cannot emulate nature's thinning it seems so far, since so many FUE-ed donors have this white dotting issue. The punch size is really psychological for most cases. The real issue is the unnatural pattern or contrast created by absence of hair, rather than any scarring. That is the improvement that is needed in the industry, to emulate natural thinning rather than geometrical discernible white gaps in space of dark background. If you take a virgin scalp donor, then use photoshoot to eliminate 3-4000 single hairs, you will see that there will be white dotting. Does it mean that the patient had scarring because of photoediting? No, simply there is now white gaps in a dark background, that, simply, sticks out. Nothing to do about it other than grafting in those to break that pattern, or make it naturally thin as in normal thinning. NoHairNoPrayer is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
marco U.K, 04.10.2007, 06:27 @ HairSite	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» Regardless of what size punch is used, once a graft is extracted, the » donor density will be compromised. Hair farming will be useful for filling » in the empty space between grafts and diminish the thinning look. I think there is a reasonable arguement that a larger punch has the danger of damaging the surrounding follicles. This effect was coined by Dr. Woods as "devils halo". In as much as there is a risk to the extracted graft by smaller punches there is therefore a risk identified by Dr. Woods to several surrounding follicles which logically would be effected more by larger punches. These white dot are most notible in this scenario. Ofcause this may depend on the skill of a particular surgeon. marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO
hairtech_ Denver, CO, 04.10.2007, 09:33 @ marco	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	I think Dr. Bisanga performed a study for "peripheral transections". hairtech_ is located in DENVER, CO and he is available to meet: NO --- Hairtech
CIT 04.10.2007, 10:25 @ NoHairNoPrayer	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» This is a good example of a patient (white hair with white skin) who would » not get white dotting--at least not visible. The reason is simple, no » contrast between the areas of hair and the areas of extraction, or absence » of hair. » » That cannot be said of other patients with darker complexion and/or hair » in the donor. The absence of hair will leave contrast to the naked eye and » create the infamous white dotting. Again, it might not be true scarring, or » any different whether 0.75 or 1.00 mm punch is used, but simply the » contrast created by the absence of hair at various locations whereas the » surroundings have hair. » » Natural thinning occurs in a pattern that usually does not create absence » of hair contrast. However, donor harvesting cannot emulate nature's » thinning it seems so far, since so many FUE-ed donors have this white » dotting issue. The punch size is really psychological for most cases. The » real issue is the unnatural pattern or contrast created by absence of » hair, rather than any scarring. That is the improvement that is needed in » the industry, to emulate natural thinning rather than geometrical » discernible white gaps in space of dark background. » » If you take a virgin scalp donor, then use photoshoot to eliminate 3-4000 » single hairs, you will see that there will be white dotting. Does it mean » that the patient had scarring because of photoediting? No, simply there is » now white gaps in a dark background, that, simply, sticks out. Nothing to » do about it other than grafting in those to break that pattern, or make it » naturally thin as in normal thinning. We performed on this patient more than 1300+ FIT grafts from the scalp and 1000+ body FIT grafts from the chest. These follow-up photos are completely shaved unlike his pre-operative photos. The patient has a very thin donor area and some scars on his donor over the back of his head. It is nearly impossible to take grafts with a strip procedure. This patient's only solution was to do a follicular isolation technique procedure with his body hair. Fortunately, he had a viable source of chest hair to add coverage to his scalp. His healing very well after just approx. 45 days and is expected to be better in weeks to come. My advice is not medical advice CIT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Toll Free: 800 368 4247 USA: 1 (678) 566-1011 Email: consults@forhair.com www.forhair.com
marco U.K, 04.10.2007, 10:29 @ hairtech_	????
	» I think Dr. Bisanga performed a study for "peripheral transections". How could you possibl do that without taking a biopsy????? marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO
CIT 05.10.2007, 04:57 @ GHI	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» Dr. Cole, » Very interesting study. If your FIT/CIT technique leaves the donor area » without noticeable scarring or indication a graft has been removed, then » why do you provide FIT farming to replace the harvested grafts. Why do » you feel the need to replace the excised tissue if there is no indication » you harvest from that area? This patient came to IHTI with a desire for body hair after his donor was tapped from harvesting. Our surgical staff performed over 3000 grafts from the chest and thighs. His hairline is much more dense after the placement of body hair. Below are wet photos of his progress after 1 year. My advice is not medical advice CIT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Toll Free: 800 368 4247 USA: 1 (678) 566-1011 Email: consults@forhair.com www.forhair.com
CIT 05.10.2007, 16:09 @ CIT	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» Here we have a class 3V with dark brown medium caliber hair and a medium » skin tone. He has a follicular density of 90 at the left mastoid and a » hair density of 210 at the left mastoid. He underwent a 3 day session of » FIT to the frontal 1/3rd of his scalp. » » » » » » » » » » » » » » » » » My advice is not medical advice We showed 12 month progress on this Norwood 5 after 3200+ FIT/CIT grafts. Now he is about 28 months post-op and his growth is very much impressive. Here are the follow-up photos of his case. My advice is not medical advice CIT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Toll Free: 800 368 4247 USA: 1 (678) 566-1011 Email: consults@forhair.com www.forhair.com
marco U.K, 05.10.2007, 16:46 @ CIT	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Hi, I notice that his crown filled in the last pics. In the op he only had the frontal and top done. What caused the crown to fill in? marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO
CIT 05.10.2007, 17:32 @ marco	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» Hi, » » I notice that his crown filled in the last pics. In the op he only had the » frontal and top done. What caused the crown to fill in? He had crown work as well but the previous photos were intermediate post op, not final. CIT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Toll Free: 800 368 4247 USA: 1 (678) 566-1011 Email: consults@forhair.com www.forhair.com
marco U.K, 05.10.2007, 18:46 @ CIT	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» He had crown work as well but the previous photos were intermediate post » op, not final. So you haven't mentioned how many graft he actually had???? marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO
CIT 06.10.2007, 11:12 @ marco	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Excuse me, he received a total of 3900 FIT grafts. Approx. 700 were placed on the crown. CIT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- Toll Free: 800 368 4247 USA: 1 (678) 566-1011 Email: consults@forhair.com www.forhair.com
marco U.K, 06.10.2007, 11:18 @ CIT	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	» Excuse me, he received a total of 3900 FIT grafts. Approx. 700 were placed » on the crown. Thanks. marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO
Dr Umar   Redondo Beach, California, 06.10.2007, 19:49 @ Dr. Cole	Dr Cole
	Dr Cole The photos of Heliboy that I posted earlier this week, were taken before the start of the first surgery at my clinic, that is the photos were taken before any grafts were extracted and before any anesthetic was administered. Heliboy is not a layman as such and he is quite capable of arriving at his conclusions as are many other patients I have seen and treated in my clinic with similar and varying grievances about other clinics. It is not my practice to inflame the sensitivities of patients with grievances regardless of their merits. As for Luckyman, I'll never know exactly what the situation was with this patient. He (apparently in concert with your clinic) posted his comments and his photos on the internet without calling or e-mailing me. After he posted his photos, I offered to fly him out to my clinic for examination (he declined) and I attempted to communicate with him by phone, but he would not speak with me. Luckyman did post on the internet that he wanted me to call you (Dr. Cole) to discuss his condition, as Luckyman had visited your clinic. So I called your office, spoke with a member of your staff and explained that I was calling about Luckyman. I was told that you (Dr. Cole) would call me back, but you never did. S. Umar, M.D., FAAD DermHair Clinic Redondo Beach, California +1-310-318-1500 1-877-DERMHAIR (US residents) info@dermhairclinic.com NEW WEBSITE www.dermhairclinic.com Single Follicule Extraction & Transfer (SFET) Using Head and Body hair For more SFET-FUE and BHT results go to www.dermhairclinic.com » Dr. Umar, there is no attempt at dirty tactics on my part. The point very » simply is that all forms of FUE leave white dots in patients prone to » these. Individuals with white hair will not get them usually and there » are some others who do not get them. The risk is not predictable just » like the risk of strip scar width is not predictable prior to surgery. » The white dots are due to an absence of pigment and circulation rather » than technique. White dots do not appear on the back or lower » extremities. They occassionally appear on the chest. » » Someone has given this patient the opinion that my procedure caused him to » form white dots and that it must be due to my technique. It certainly was » not me. Since he did not ever bring this up to me prior to his procedure » with you, one can only guess where he derived this conclusion. I » certainly have no crystal ball. » » I have some very good photos showing quite a bit of density and none of » this redness on the scalp. Was that prior to his procedure with you or » after. If after, one would suspect quite a bit of shock loss. » » Incidentally, those pitted grafts were there prior to his work with me. » They are not my handy work. Dr Umar is located in REDONDO BEACH, CALIFORNIA and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
arun 07.10.2007, 11:46 @ NoHairNoPrayer	heliboy - toppik question
	HB, I just saw your pix. Congrats on your progress. I couldnt help noticing the nice way you have used the toppik. Mine gets smudged all the time. Any help will be appreciated. HTs, BHTs and concealors used correctly are thew thinking man's answer to hairloss, IMO. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v729/shumar/finetouch/dermhair/12731.jpg arun is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
arun 07.10.2007, 11:53 (edited by arun, 07.10.2007, 12:04) @ arun	Heliboy - I finally managed
	I cant seem to get the pix to show Let me try. I look fwd to looking just this way. I follow your progress eagerly. Dont stop your updates and advise. Love you. Hey1 I got the pix to show. This is what I wanted but they were not showing. arun is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Heliboy Wilmington ,N.C, 07.10.2007, 13:27 (edited by Heliboy, 07.10.2007, 13:47) @ arun	Heliboy- Toppik answer
	Arun Wow= you would think after two years of me working ruthlessly on putting an end to my long nightmare journey of hair loss restoration and documentation along the way and finally getting peace of mind - that those trained to mislead would stop their inevitable task. It seems to never end . Ironic you post in this particular thread where some scrutiny was issed . You seemed to have worked so hard to post the pics which was not necessary . I'm sure that you felt some sort of satisfaction was achieved by it . I can assure you that no toppik was used in your posted pics .I have had these pics posted on my website gallery for quite some time to show the effect of body hair . I'm sorry to dissapoint you since you have put so much effort forth . I personally do not appreciate the attempt to mislead /misnterprete my results that I have worked very hard to obtain over the past two years and spent a great deal of money on . During your track of my progress you seem to have missed a few lessons in the role of BHT. It is actually used to provide as a filler and due to its characteritics it offers a toppik like effect with its coverage . Posters on this forum that that I have met with including Endhairpiece and 69sting (I think you know him well) were two that have seen in person to see it first hand The toppik like effect of BHT is discussed in a previous thread: http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=51916&mode=full Just so that you know : I dont need any of your love -I have enough (keep up the good work over there ) But thank you for your compliment towards my progress. I am so sure that it was heartfelt . Since you want to look so much like me why dont you put your pic forth and let us see what you need to do. I'll be glad to offer my advice . I would hate for you to live with smearing your Toppik for the rest of your life. That has to be very discouraging 19,000 grafts by Dr Umar www.myhairtransformation.com Heliboy is located in WILMINGTON ,N.C and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
Sofarsogood Los Angeles area, 07.10.2007, 16:03 (edited by Sofarsogood, 07.10.2007, 16:21) @ Heliboy	BHT growth by Dr. Umar...
	Hi guys, Well, as many of you know, I traveled to the ISHRS meeting for two reasons; get advise on maintaining by transplant and getting as many opinions possible from docs, techs and patients regarding my BHT result. Dr. Umar was prepared to present 10 successful BHT cases but because of time restraints, was only able to present six cases... in seven minutes! That's all he was allotted. A bit disappointing but it was his first appearance. Afterwards, I received very positive acknowledgement about my BHT "feathered" and reshaped hairline Dr. Umar created using only leg hair. Over 12 docs from 10 different countries happily verified my BHT growth. Where was Dr. Cole? I only wish Dr. Cole was in attendance. If he was, I didn't get a chance to have him examine my HT along with the others. His validation would have meant a lot to me. However, many of the top docs in the field were most impressed with Dr. Umar's handiwork. In addition, dozens of techs and patients (and one well known forum moderator) also observed the BHT growth. Most of the docs' names can be found in my thread here about the convention, and there were more as well. In short, leg hair did a great job in softening my old HT hairline formally made up of "minis", "micros" and "FUs". I flew to Vegas to have so many others confirm what I've been posting about BHT for almost two years now... BHT worked for me. Have a test when going in for some FUE and try it for yourself. Peace please, Sofar P.S. I have also seen Heliboy's result and his hair looks WAY better than mine would if I buzzed my hair as he does. His BHT growth is very obvious and does indeed provide great filler in his case. Sofarsogood has 7 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view Sofarsogood is located in LOS ANGELES AREA and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. --- BHT was used to "soften" my former HT hairline that was made up of larger grafts. At the ISHRS 2007convention, 12 docs from 10 countries, many techs and one famous forum moderator acknowledged the BHT growth. Click the link for more about my case. http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/27-sofarsogood Video of my BHT result: http://youtube.com/watch?v=n_8uYbMTa4I
arun 07.10.2007, 22:48 @ Heliboy	Heliboy- Toppik answer
	Why you getting so worked up? I asked a question in the subject line. I had a roommate once used to apply toppik. He's no more. Thats how I thought I saw toppik in your pix. Most people can miss it, but this is what bits of toppik looks like. He had a knack of using little quantities without it clumping. If you dont use toppik, thats fine with me. I'll ask someone else. arun is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
MPB 08.10.2007, 06:48 @ arun	Heliboy- Toppik answer
	» Why you getting so worked up? I asked a question in the subject line. » I had a roommate once used to apply toppik. He's no more. Thats how I » thought I saw toppik in your pix. Most people can miss it, but this is » what bits of toppik looks like. He had a knack of using little quantities » without it clumping. » If you dont use toppik, thats fine with me. I'll ask someone else. Heliboy's BHT case is one of the most successful and followed cases on these forums. If you didn't know that you must have been living on another planet. Research my friend. One can see how your statement can come off a tad bit insulting. MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Skywalker 08.10.2007, 13:18 @ MPB	Heliboy- Toppik answer
	Heliboy's BHT case is one of the most successful and followed cases on these forums. MPB, there is no consensus on this at all. Of course the Toppik issue is another matter - I do not think anybody is seriously accusing Heliboy of that - and if they are then I think they are just wrong. Skywalker is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
MPB 08.10.2007, 21:38 @ Skywalker	Heliboy- Toppik answer
	» Heliboy's BHT case is one of the most successful and followed cases on » these forums. » » MPB, there is no consensus on this at all. » There isn't? Then I guess we have all been living in a fucking fish bowl. MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Dr. Cole 08.10.2007, 22:31 @ MPB	Heliboy- Toppik answer
	Dear Heliboy, I appreciate your comments. Some things disappoint me deeply. One is the failure to meet a patient’s expectations. Yet another is to loose a patient. Loss of a patient generally means you performed poorly or you treated a valued customer without the respect they deserve. In your case I had no idea what you needed financial consideration until after you had left my practice. We were keeping all body hair prices high at the time to discouarge patients from jumping into a procedure that had a limited track record. I’m no quitter so I like to finish what I start. After it was apparent that you had sought alternative options, I explored your file. Needless to say, I was exceedingly disappointed. I often perform pro-bono work or discounted work. I have no problem doing extra work if needed at no charge. For instance, I performed over 1000 grafts at no extra charge last Tuesday because I had the time and it was something my patients needed in order to accomplish the mission. You have to realize that when we first began offering FUE at the end of 2002. The response to this offertory was immense. At the time we honestly had few options, instruments, and techniques. At times we had to send patients back home because we could not acquire enough quality grafts to achieve the results we expect. I recall one patient who came to us from Israel. We actually sent him home with 20 grafts in his head because I could not discern an affective way to harvest a substantial number of quality grafts. It is not in my chemistry to cheat a patient. In 2003 we had limited options available for our customers, but an enormous interest in what we were trying to do. We also had a surgery team accustomed to 6000 strip grafts per day at that time. We had no protocol for FUE. The growing pains were very hard on this seasoned staff and cost us a few of them as they saw no future in FUE. As I recall you had your first procedure with us in April of 2003. Of course I could be wrong in this date. We were trying to use a large surgery microscope at that time, but could not make it work to a degree of satisfaction that meets our high standards. We did some hair line work for you and some redistribution of pitted larger grafts. Our technique at the time was stone age then compared to what we can accomplish today. It was during this period of high demand and limited tools/techniques that I would spend long hours trying to harvest fewer than 500 grafts in some individuals. The evolution of the process was in the trenches work that sometimes would yield only a few hundred grafts because quantity without quality was not an option for us Gradually over 6 months time I developed instrumentation that would allow for a growing successful patient base. The development did not stop there. We still had some cases that stumped us so we continued to develop instruments and capitalize on the depth control aspects of our instrumentation. Most of the development was trial and error, but some of it was fortuitous luck that was a consequence of long hours punctuated by mistakes. Ever so gradually, the procedure evolved and continues to advance even today. We recognized that no one technique or instrument works equally well for all individuals so we evolved into 32 different basic instruments that can be modified infinitely based on individual characteristics. Beyond these 32 instruments we added modifiers that speed the process and the quality of the result. You are concerned about scarring, but it is actually a good thing that punch size up to a limit does not affect healing because you need multiple options to treat all patients. Recipient site size up to a certain size does not affect healing either. The ablity to vary instruments is the reason we are able to acheive consitent results. Repair work with DJ evolved slowly as well. I had to invent techniques to overcome the problems here, take out everything and then put it back so that he had a natural appearance. He had almost no donor area because it had been cut out and thrown away by agressive scalp reduction procedures called a Lift. Even today, however, I am sure he would like more density. There is a limited supply of body hair remaining. Much of his body hair grew well. i do not think it did as well in his strip scars. Sometimes it grows well in strip scars and sometimes it doesn't. We were very impressed by the early body hair results of Dr. Wood. Therefore, we sought methods to remove body hair safely and affectively. Pricing was initially high to discourage patients from choosing this method of hair restoration while we worked on technique. We had a few patients who could afford large sessions and were willing to take chances that it would work. I honestly told people that I could not gurantee growth at all and i could not predict scarring. It did work very well in our first large case, but not as good in some other very large cases. Heliboy, you are fortunate to have found a physician that achieved a very good result for you. I am happy that you have such a wonderful result that pleases you greatly. I’m sorry to loose a patient, but much happier that you have a satisfying result. I am pleased for both you and Dr. Umar and sincerely hope he will continue building on such success stories as you and So Far So Good. With regard to Las Vegas, I planned to go out Saturday morning, but cancelled at the last minute. I stayed home with my younger children and played golf with my 11 year old son and 9 year old daughter. We did have a booth at the meeting where we promoted many of our surgical instruments that are either patented or patent pending. I think they have had 13 meetings thus far and I’ve missed only two. I’ve done well over my share of presenting including body hair results. I brought 6 patients to the meeting last year. Two had body hair results. I intentionally brought one who had a great result and on who had a subtle result to show that one cannot always guarantee great results with body hair. I did not want to over promote the procedure to other physicians. Unfortunately, the great result did not come so I fear that many left with a disappointed outlook on body hair. I’ve also presented many cases via slides showing body hair results and study data that document some of the challenges and limitations we face with body hair. I know that the slide presentations have been well received in the past. My personal take on body hair is that it is good filler hair. One should use head hair first and then body hair. One should not over sell the potential as sometimes the result is quite subtle. One of the problems with body hair is that it often begins to grow quite fine. It may never reach the original diameter prior to transplantation and this will definately affect the end result, which will be much thinner. We also know that high densities do not always produce the desired yield, based on a study I performed comparing high density yeild to low density yeild. Therefore, I no longer transplant body hair at a density higher than 30 per sq cm. Obviously, this will not produce as much coverage as 70 per sq cm, but the yield seems to be better in some. I’ve seen it grow well at densities approaching 70 per sq cm, but this does not always occur. Body hair is useful to those with repair work where the donor area is essentially exhausted. I wish it worked equally well for all individuals, but this simply does not seem to be the case. We have always told patients that we cannot guarantee any results with body hair. Dr. Cole is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
HairSite   08.10.2007, 23:03 @ NoHairNoPrayer	Fue punch size from Dr. Cole's study
	Dr. Cole's name was brought into this thread in the first place, I am going to let Dr. Cole have the last word. This is one of those threads that will never yield any conclusions, only animosity among one another. Thread is now locked. HairSite is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- HairSite.com email: hairsite@aol.com for a free consultation ===================================== reminder: 1. StandUp2Cancer.org