BostonBaldy
12.01.2008, 19:36 |
Info: Follica will have a cure in 1-2 years (Hair Multiplication & Research) |
Hi all,
I've been busy but of course there's been a lot of exciting news recently. However, a friend of a friend who is connected to Follica has told me that he's convinced they will have a cure in 1-2 years (and yes the new hairs will be created de novo, resistant to DHT). I realize we've all had this "insider" crap before -- from TheGame and others -- so I want to stress that I'm not sure who this friend of a friend is, nor do I know how much he knows, and I haven't heard anything new except what we already have on this HM forum. Regardless, I thought I'd pass this tidbit along. Let's hope for a good year on the baldness front.
One more thing: I should add that I've been doing this wounding plus lithium chloride/EGCG routine for a while and yes, I have some new hair growth. And the hairs are dark, oddly enough. So aside from "insider" info I think there's something to the WNT suppression/activation plus wounding method...
All the best,
BB
BostonBaldy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
mell
12.01.2008, 19:40
@ BostonBaldy
|
Info: Follica will have a cure in 1-2 years |
What are you using to remove the top layer of skin and what to you use for
WNT suppression.
mell is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.01.2008, 20:36
@ BostonBaldy
|
The hair is likely to be DHT sensitive and the insider is a bragger |
The hair is likely to be DHT sensitive and the insider is a bragger in my opinion. I mean history says that the chances that this time, the insider is not some crazy psycho who loves making up things out of a thin air, are next to zero.
Anyway, is there anyone who could explain why would the new hair (that would be grown in using the same mechanism as the old hair that felt out because it was dht sensitive), why would the new one should be any different? I mean really, give me one reason for it other then we all wish it was resistant.
btw that wounding / chloride, how many new hair do you have? And is it in completely bald area?
» Hi all,
»
» I've been busy but of course there's been a lot of exciting news recently.
» However, a friend of a friend who is connected to Follica has told me that
» he's convinced they will have a cure in 1-2 years (and yes the new hairs
» will be created de novo, resistant to DHT). I realize we've all had this
» "insider" crap before -- from TheGame and others -- so I want to stress
» that I'm not sure who this friend of a friend is, nor do I know how much
» he knows, and I haven't heard anything new except what we already have on
» this HM forum. Regardless, I thought I'd pass this tidbit along. Let's
» hope for a good year on the baldness front.
»
» One more thing: I should add that I've been doing this wounding plus
» lithium chloride/EGCG routine for a while and yes, I have some new hair
» growth. And the hairs are dark, oddly enough. So aside from "insider" info
» I think there's something to the WNT suppression/activation plus wounding
» method...
»
» All the best,
» BB
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.01.2008, 20:42
@ BostonBaldy
|
Info: Follica will have a cure in 1-2 years |
Heh and another thing. Calling something a cure that even inventors refer to as "treatment", and making up random time lines. That only confirms how much this is a pipe dream and how much it is a reality.
All right it is possible, that in 2 years you will have an option, go for HT or go for something based on WNT. But because of lack of evidence other than "friend of my friend says" I doubt it will be a cure that would give anyone nw1 hair, and I seriously doubt that the new hair will be DHT resistant.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
12.01.2008, 20:56
@ debris
|
The hair is likely to be DHT sensitive and the insider is a bragger |
debris wrote
Anyway, is there anyone who could explain why would the new hair (that would be grown in using the same mechanism as the old hair that felt out because it was dht sensitive), why would the new one should be any different? I mean really, give me one reason for it other then we all wish it was resistant
I'll give you two. If you check the article at xconomy.com, you'll notice a comment made by David Steinberg - he's Follica's Principal, and he's one of the seventeen key members listed on the site's team bio. He wrote:
I am with the company. While we have not tested this in humans yet we fully expect that hair will persist. There are multiple reasons for this. First of all, consider hair transplants - while they have other flaws, the hair does indeed persist despite the presence of circulating DHT. In a distinct, but similar way, the Follica treatment changes the microenvironment of the follicles. Further, a single hair cycle lasts several years, and at the very least the new hair should last one full cycle (because of the underlying physiology of the condition). Also, circulating levels of DHT actually drop over a man’s life. We have seen numerous clinical reports of patients showing sustained hair cycling when exposed to conditions similar to the treatment Follica is pursuing (in a carefully directed and controlled way).
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline
|
debris
12.01.2008, 21:16
@ rev
|
The hair is likely to be DHT sensitive and the insider is a bragger |
He does not seem to be too confident.
In short he says well we believe it will be DHT resistant, because HT is (well, HT is because it is based on follicles that have different genetic make up, because they came from different cells then those that are on top of your head).
Then he admits that it is possible it will not be, and says all right but still you will have some hair and maybe few weeks before you start to go rapidly bald once again.
And then he says that it might work only for old guys. So once I'm 60 I can have some hair. Thanx doc, but I think I'll have different issues then.
I think that they just want to make sure that investors give them the damn money. And in fact, this is good. without it we won't have anything nor this just another flawed treatment.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.01.2008, 21:20
@ debris
|
What I see likely is that ICX + this WNT could be a cure. |
It might be possible to exploit this signaling and bring some strength and consistency to ICX's procedure which imho has greater chances to deliver true dht resistant hair that lasts a life time.
There are numerous studies that say that the balding follicle exhibits weakness of dermal papilla cells, so replenishing these cells with cells based on DP's comming from the safe area could do the trick (unless the baling DP cells go suicidal not because of their genetics, but because of genetics of some evil other cells they interact with).
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.01.2008, 21:30
@ rev
|
And btw the DHT does increase with age, up until you reach very old age |
So I dunno, they seem to be saying something that's contradicting all known research so far.
All studies of hormonal changes say clearly that T goes down while DHT does increase with age.
search pubmed if you don't believe.
So what is this guy talking about?
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Redman77
12.01.2008, 22:39
@ BostonBaldy
|
Info: Follica will have a cure in 1-2 years |
» Hi all,
»
» I've been busy but of course there's been a lot of exciting news recently.
» However, a friend of a friend who is connected to Follica has told me that
» he's convinced they will have a cure in 1-2 years (and yes the new hairs
» will be created de novo, resistant to DHT). I realize we've all had this
» "insider" crap before -- from TheGame and others -- so I want to stress
» that I'm not sure who this friend of a friend is, nor do I know how much
» he knows, and I haven't heard anything new except what we already have on
» this HM forum. Regardless, I thought I'd pass this tidbit along. Let's
» hope for a good year on the baldness front.
»
» One more thing: I should add that I've been doing this wounding plus
» lithium chloride/EGCG routine for a while and yes, I have some new hair
» growth. And the hairs are dark, oddly enough. So aside from "insider" info
» I think there's something to the WNT suppression/activation plus wounding
» method...
»
» All the best,
» BB
is this follica cure a procedure like HM or completely different? is it foing to be by injections or a topical?
Redman77 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
Maxi Hair
Mega Men Multivitamin
Fish Oils
Rogaine Foam
American Crew
Folligen Cream
Nizoral Shampoo |
ipod
12.01.2008, 22:54
@ BostonBaldy
|
THEY HAVE NOT TESTED IN HUMANS |
THEY HAVE NOT YET TESTED IN HUMANS
ipod is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
NW3 -
Propecia /Saw Palmetto
Topical Spiro / Rogaine Foam (quit REMOX IV)
High does vitamin C / Lysine / Nizoral / Tea Tree Oil Shampoo |
Mr. Frodo
13.01.2008, 00:01
@ ipod
|
smells like GHO |
» THEY HAVE NOT YET TESTED IN HUMANS
I smell a rat
Mr. Frodo is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TAGOHL
13.01.2008, 00:39
@ debris
|
The hair is likely to be DHT sensitive and the insider is a bragger |
> The hair is likely to be DHT sensitive
I think this is probably unknown, since the studies have not been done to determine this.
Finasteride and dutasteride would presumably be useful if they are DHT sensitive (although it would be bad form to require anyone who gets this treatment to take oral 5AR inibitors.)
TAGOHL is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TAGOHL
13.01.2008, 00:44
@ BostonBaldy
|
Info: Follica will have a cure in 1-2 years |
» I've been busy but of course there's been a lot of exciting news recently.
The biggest question I have with this treatment (wounding + subsequent pharmalogical manipulaton) is how well it would treat diffuse thinning. Bald spots are easy. But what if there is existing hair in the way? How do you precisely direct the treatment to balding follicles in a *thinning* area without affecting existing terminal follicles?
TAGOHL is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
13.01.2008, 01:00
@ TAGOHL
|
For TAGOHL |
» » I've been busy but of course there's been a lot of exciting news
» recently.
»
» The biggest question I have with this treatment (wounding + subsequent
» pharmalogical manipulaton) is how well it would treat diffuse thinning.
» Bald spots are easy. But what if there is existing hair in the way? How do
» you precisely direct the treatment to balding follicles in a *thinning*
» area without affecting existing terminal follicles?
The treatment, based on the experimental section of the patent is this:
1)They dermabrate the skin after depilation (they actually used NAIR).
2) They inhibit wnt expression with dkk-1 for nine days
3) They then apply wnt protiens or a promoter thereof after that.
Thats it.
The tested it on human skin grafted onto a immuno deficient mouse and had new de noveau hair in 30 days, and then again at day 50--thus proving it was human hair and not mouse hair by some fluke. Its only pigmented if they block wnt-expression for the first nine days during the re-epilithializatoin period in the skin, it will be white if they dont do this.
For the diffuse thinner, they'd be making new hairs between the old ones I would suppose.
THe prostaglandin D2 inhibitor patent (ECGC inhibits prostaglandin D2), is a different patent altogether, but it is interesting that prostaglandin D2 is 4.4 times more exhibited in balding scalp over hairy scalp, and that they could inhibit a new growth phase in mouse fur for 50 days with continual application of prostaglandin D2, and the sebacous hypertropy and thin hair on mice that have alot of it. I doubt that will regrow hair, but it might keep it from thinning on someone who has hair.
We will see what the tests can do in humans, and not human skin on a mouseback very shortly. If they can grow hair on some guys..............I'll be very happy as that will be a second procedure (ICX)to have done so. Surely one of them will work. Im ready for baldness to be whipped once and for all for humanity
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
mate
13.01.2008, 01:02
@ TAGOHL
|
The hair is likely to be DHT sensitive and the insider is a bragger |
» Finasteride and dutasteride would presumably be useful if they are DHT
» sensitive (although it would be bad form to require anyone who gets this
» treatment to take oral 5AR inibitors.)
That's what I'm thinking. If it does indeed work but produces non-persistent results, couldn't one take a course of 5ARs immediately following and expect to retain and large amount of that hair for a significant period? If you could develop an acceptable amount of hair and retain it for 3-5 years, it may buy you the time necessary for a true, full treatment down the line. Even temporary results are worth the money if they can allow a patient to bridge the time between the present and the future of alopecia treatments.
mate is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
mate
13.01.2008, 01:06
@ Mr. Frodo
|
smells like GHO |
» » THEY HAVE NOT YET TESTED IN HUMANS
»
» I smell a rat
The people behind this are associated with a very presitgious university that is very concerned with its reputation. Plus, they have serious backing from a major corporation.
It may not work, but if it doesn't, it won't be because the science was bad or falsified.
There's a big difference between a Chinese quack and the University of Pennsylvania/P&G.
mate is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
13.01.2008, 01:58
@ mate
|
smells like GHO |
"a cure in 1-2 years"
AARRGGHHH!!!
We need some sort of understanding in the HM research world that ALL mentioning of timelines MUST disclose whether this is when the product would be ON THE MARKET, or whether the timeframe in question is how long before they begin a 3-stage clinical trials process.
That little detail is the difference between 2 years or 12.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
James Bond
13.01.2008, 21:11
@ mate
|
smells like GHO |
» » » THEY HAVE NOT YET TESTED IN HUMANS
» »
» » I smell a rat
»
» The people behind this are associated with a very presitgious university
» that is very concerned with its reputation. Plus, they have serious
» backing from a major corporation.
»
» It may not work, but if it doesn't, it won't be because the science was
» bad or falsified.
»
» There's a big difference between a Chinese quack and the University of
» Pennsylvania/P&G.
For the record:
Gho's HM research was performed in collaboration with a prestigious University in Holland. His principle research consultant is one of the most published and well-respected dermatologists in the world. Their preliminary HM study is published in the most prestigious medical journal in the world.
Fact: Gho claimed to be stimulating dormant follicles via follicular stem cell injections. Many people called him a liar because there were no public studies that even hinted this might be possible. Years later McElwee performed a ground-breaking study proving Gho's claims were accurate.
Fact: Gho claimed that if you leave the lower third of a follicle in the skin undisturbed, it will result in regrowth up to 80% of the time. Many people claimed him to be a liar because studies at the time showed that planting the lower third back in the skin resulted in poor regeneration. Independent researchers later tested leaving lower third follicles in the skin and proved Gho's claim to be accurate.
Fact: Gho claimed that HM stimulation worked well in some patients but that other patients got a very poor response and that it was extremely difficult to figure out why. People called him a liar claiming that he was making an excuse to cover up not really having done any HM research. Recently ICX stated that patients in their phase II trials had inconsistent regrowth results varying between 13 and 105%. This is almost exactly on par with Gho's claim of having obtained between 20 and 80% consistency in his initial phase II research.
Gho was unable to complete his protocol, but people really need to get over this and try to accept reality. ICX is at almost the exact stage of development that Gho was at when he reached a plateau in his research. Much like Gho, ICX has continued to miss timelines and has failed to meet milestones. But this is par for the course in biotech startup ventures. If people believe there will be a difference between the time it took Gho to perform his HM research and Follica, ICX, ARI, PhoenixBio, etc to perform their research, then they are purely deluded about the way the biotech world works.
I truly hope people open up there eyes and realize that if Gho taught us anything it is that we must remain hopeful but patient.
James Bond is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
James Bond
13.01.2008, 21:14
@ James Bond
|
patient |
Patient: bearing provocation, annoyance, misfortune, delay, hardship, pain, etc., with fortitude and calm and without complaint, anger, or the like.
James Bond is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
14.01.2008, 02:04
@ benji
|
Where we are at in our pursuit of hair................ |
ICX is in phase 2, testing small groups of men (less than 10), trying to find out which mix of culturing cells, injections of cells (depths, numbers, mixes), best grow hair or rejuvinate hair (or both).
Follica, fresh off its "victory" of being able to grow human hair on human skin grafted onto the back of a mouse, will be heading into human trials trying to grow hair also. They plan to use 15-20 men in their first big test. I dont know if its already underway, or will be taking place shortly or not.
What we DO HAVE TO BE EXCITED ABOUT is this: The mathematical chances that both of these companies "cant do it" and have to quit are half of what merely one of them face. If Follica's first test with men is successful, it would seem that hair replacement from one company the other would seemingly be only a matter of time. Aderans claims it has "grown human hair on human skin" via Washenik, so Follica, ICX, Aderans are three companies in this hemisphere that can make the claim they have grown de noveau human hair on human skin and that in itself is exciting. Gho was one overworked man trying to solve a really tough complicated puzzle, but these are companies backed by shareholding-money, and two of them are backed by much larger corporations. Follica, owned ultimately by Proctor and Gamble, should have more cash than any of them. Three players, all with massive dollar signs in their eyes, working on our behalf. The math is on our side in this that one of them will emerge with a pretty good product, and I dont think it will be ten years either.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
14.01.2008, 05:11
@ benji
|
Where we are at in our pursuit of hair................ |
Yeah, that's what is so encouraging.
The blanket assumption that "any form of commercial HM is still decades away" doesn't even seem to match the MOST LIKELY situation anymore, let alone the best case scenario that is possible. It would only take a somewhat-successful next decade to get some kind of basic HM on the market.
It won't be out in 2008. But we might very well be in the REAL last 5 years now.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
HanginInThere
Hair loss University,
14.01.2008, 13:34
@ cal
|
Baloney................ |
» Yeah, that's what is so encouraging.
»
» The blanket assumption that "any form of commercial HM is still decades
» away" doesn't even seem to match the MOST LIKELY situation anymore, let
» alone the best case scenario that is possible. It would only take a
» somewhat-successful next decade to get some kind of basic HM on the
» market.
»
» It won't be out in 2008. But we might very well be in the REAL last 5
» years now.
You guys are being overly optomisitc based on your desperation and hope that HM will not only work, but it will be here soon.
Look at Cloning, They know how to do it, but even with animals it is so fraught with complications , and errors , that it does not seem to be feasible. Cloning is very similar in its methods, to what ICX is attempting. Do some research on the failures of cloning
"
What's the problem with cloning?
About 98% of cloning efforts fail.
Usually a cloned embryo dies before birth but sometimes afterwards too.
Most of the survivors have potentially fatal heart or lung problems or diseases like diabete"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/tech/cloning/newsid_1676000/1676856.stm
HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg |
HairSite
All Over,
14.01.2008, 14:05
@ HanginInThere
|
Baloney................ |
» You guys are being overly optomisitc based on your desperation and hope
» that HM will not only work, but it will be here soon.
»
» Look at Cloning, They know how to do it, but even with animals it is so
» fraught with complications , and errors , that it does not seem to be
» feasible. Cloning is very similar in its methods, to what ICX is
» attempting. Do some research on the failures of cloning
» "
» What's the problem with cloning?
» About 98% of cloning efforts fail.
»
» Usually a cloned embryo dies before birth but sometimes afterwards too.
»
» Most of the survivors have potentially fatal heart or lung problems or
» diseases like diabete"
»
» http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/tech/cloning/newsid_1676000/1676856.stm
What Intercytex is doing is CELL THERAPY, not cloning.
HairSite is located in ALL OVER and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. ---
HairSite.com
email: hairsite@aol.com for a free consultation
=====================================
reminder:
1. StandUp2Cancer.org |
HanginInThere
Hair loss University,
14.01.2008, 14:25
@ HairSite
|
Baloney................ |
» » You guys are being overly optomisitc based on your desperation and hope
» » that HM will not only work, but it will be here soon.
» »
» » Look at Cloning, They know how to do it, but even with animals it is so
» » fraught with complications , and errors , that it does not seem to be
» » feasible. Cloning is very similar in its methods, to what ICX is
» » attempting. Do some research on the failures of cloning
» » "
» » What's the problem with cloning?
» » About 98% of cloning efforts fail.
» »
» » Usually a cloned embryo dies before birth but sometimes afterwards too.
» »
» » Most of the survivors have potentially fatal heart or lung problems or
» » diseases like diabete"
» »
» »
» http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/tech/cloning/newsid_1676000/1676856.stm
»
» What Intercytex is doing is CELL THERAPY, not cloning.
regardless of that, it is not a simple process and what makes guys think that this testing will be
successful AND here within a year or two, is beyond me
it will always be.........jusr around the corner, or here within 5 yrs
werent we hearing the same thing in 1999? guys were so eager and frothing at the mouth back then and what happened?
HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg |
HairSite
All Over,
14.01.2008, 14:39
@ HanginInThere
|
Baloney................ |
» regardless of that, it is not a simple process and what makes guys think
» that this testing will be
» successful AND here within a year or two, is beyond me
You never know unless you TRY. Humans are constantly striving to improve our lives. That's what separate us from the apes.
»
» it will always be.........jusr around the corner, or here within 5 yrs
» werent we hearing the same thing in 1999? guys were so eager and frothing
» at the mouth back then and what happened?
We have made a lot of progress since 1999. Back then it was just Dr. Gho, a one man show with a lot of mystery and secrecy behind the scene. Now we have a very transparent public company currently in phase II of the human trials.
HairSite is located in ALL OVER and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. ---
HairSite.com
email: hairsite@aol.com for a free consultation
=====================================
reminder:
1. StandUp2Cancer.org |
rev
your nightmares,
14.01.2008, 15:05
@ HanginInThere
|
Baloney................ |
HANGINGSHIT wrote:
regardless of that, it is not a simple process and what makes guys think that this testing will be successful AND here within a year or two, is beyond me
Actual timelines aside, I think HM is a far simpler
process than getting you to shut your Piehole!!!
sorry...BaloneyHole!
BTW. you're still an idiot.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline
|
biston
14.01.2008, 15:08
@ HanginInThere
|
Baloney................ |
» regardless of that, it is not a simple process and what makes guys think
» that this testing will be
» successful AND here within a year or two, is beyond me
»
» it will always be.........jusr around the corner, or here within 5 yrs
» werent we hearing the same thing in 1999? guys were so eager and frothing
» at the mouth back then and what happened?
Hangin is right, we could still wait 10 years before to see a "decent" cure for baldness from (at least one of..) these company, even if there are some society testing they trials, it doesn't mean that everything will go well and soon..
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
HairSite
All Over,
14.01.2008, 16:06
@ biston
|
Baloney................ |
» » regardless of that, it is not a simple process and what makes guys think
» » that this testing will be
» » successful AND here within a year or two, is beyond me
» »
» » it will always be.........jusr around the corner, or here within 5 yrs
» » werent we hearing the same thing in 1999? guys were so eager and
» frothing
» » at the mouth back then and what happened?
»
» Hangin is right, we could still wait 10 years before to see a
» "decent" cure for baldness from (at least one of..) these company, even if
» there are some society testing they trials, it doesn't mean that everything
» will go well and soon..
Nobody says it will definitely be a CURE for hair loss. There will be first generation HM, second generation HM etc. I suspect products like minoxidil, Propecia and even hair transplants will still have a major role to play even when HM becomes available. It will be good news for people just starting to lose their hair. Hopefully with minoxidil, Propecia, and HM, they will be able to slow down the progression of hair loss significantly.
HairSite is located in ALL OVER and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. ---
HairSite.com
email: hairsite@aol.com for a free consultation
=====================================
reminder:
1. StandUp2Cancer.org |
biston
14.01.2008, 16:49
@ HairSite
|
Baloney................ |
????
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
mate
14.01.2008, 16:50
@ HairSite
|
Baloney................ |
» » » regardless of that, it is not a simple process and what makes guys
» think
» » » that this testing will be
» » » successful AND here within a year or two, is beyond me
» » »
» » » it will always be.........jusr around the corner, or here within 5
» yrs
» » » werent we hearing the same thing in 1999? guys were so eager and
» » frothing
» » » at the mouth back then and what happened?
» »
» » Hangin is right, we could still wait 10 years before to see a
» » "decent" cure for baldness from (at least one of..) these company, even
» if
» » there are some society testing they trials, it doesn't mean that
» everything
» » will go well and soon..
»
» Nobody says it will definitely be a CURE for hair loss. There will be
» first generation HM, second generation HM etc. I suspect products like
» minoxidil, Propecia and even hair transplants will still have a major role
» to play even when HM becomes available. It will be good news for people
» just starting to lose their hair. Hopefully with minoxidil, Propecia, and
» HM, they will be able to slow down the progression of hair loss
» significantly.
I think you're right; HM will be another much-needed arrow in the quiver.
As for the latest iteration, I think we obviously have a tendency to over-react to any news. The Gho debacle went on for YEARS without anything to show for it. Now its Intercytex or Follica, and it will also likely continue for years. Lets hope something comes of it. I am encouraged to see a major corporation behind at least one of these treatments.
Are we in the final "5 years"? Maybe, but I think its safe to say that we are definitely in the final 10.
mate is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Jtelecom
14.01.2008, 19:20
@ mate
|
Baloney................ |
If they can make a (dead rat's) heart beat again by injecting it with cells, as they announced today, I think that HM has a fair shot at becoming viable in five years.
Jtelecom is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
Jtelecom
5 Strip Surgeries (4 Bosley, 1 AlviArmani)
3 FUE Surgeries (2 Undisclosed, 1 AlviArmani)
(Latest FUE Surgery: June 6, 2008 - AlviArmani Los Angeles) |
James Bond
15.01.2008, 00:59
@ HairSite
|
Baloney................ |
» » You guys are being overly optomisitc based on your desperation and hope
» » that HM will not only work, but it will be here soon.
» »
» » Look at Cloning, They know how to do it, but even with animals it is so
» » fraught with complications , and errors , that it does not seem to be
» » feasible. Cloning is very similar in its methods, to what ICX is
» » attempting. Do some research on the failures of cloning
» » "
» » What's the problem with cloning?
» » About 98% of cloning efforts fail.
» »
» » Usually a cloned embryo dies before birth but sometimes afterwards too.
» »
» » Most of the survivors have potentially fatal heart or lung problems or
» » diseases like diabete"
» »
» »
» http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/tech/cloning/newsid_1676000/1676856.stm
»
» What Intercytex is doing is CELL THERAPY, not cloning.
James Bond is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
James Bond
15.01.2008, 01:30
@ James Bond
|
Baloney................ |
» » » Cloning is very similar in its methods, to what ICX is
» » » attempting. Do some research on the failures of cloning
No its not. If anything, cloning is the exact opposite of what ICX is attempting. With cloning, you use highly specialized tools and techniques to radically alter cells in an attempt to force them to grow radically different from what nature originally intended.
By contrast, ICX is attempting to keep cells as close to what nature intended as humanly possible. The problem is that they need to expand the numbers of these natural cells, but to do that, they have to put them in culture. Unfortunately, the cells change when they are cultured. This change is unwanted and unintended and causes the cells to not be able to grow hair anymore.
In short, cloning has nothing to do with HM. The term "hair cloning" is used to describe HM to those that know almost nothing about science, but it is never intended to be taken literally.
James Bond is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Amilcar
15.01.2008, 14:03
@ James Bond
|
Baloney................ |
» » » » Cloning is very similar in its methods, to what ICX is
» » » » attempting. Do some research on the failures of cloning
»
» No its not. If anything, cloning is the exact opposite of what ICX is
» attempting. With cloning, you use highly specialized tools and techniques
» to radically alter cells in an attempt to force them to grow radically
» different from what nature originally intended.
»
» By contrast, ICX is attempting to keep cells as close to what nature
» intended as humanly possible. The problem is that they need to expand the
» numbers of these natural cells, but to do that, they have to put them in
» culture. Unfortunately, the cells change when they are cultured. This
» change is unwanted and unintended and causes the cells to not be able to
» grow hair anymore.
»
» In short, cloning has nothing to do with HM. The term "hair cloning" is
» used to describe HM to those that know almost nothing about science, but
» it is never intended to be taken literally.
I second that ...HanginThere please give me a BREAK...
Amilcar is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Amilcar
15.01.2008, 14:24
@ Amilcar
|
HanginInthere GIVE ME A BREAK !!! |
I'm really starting to think that you have some vital interest at maintaing the Status Quo when it comes to MPB..thats uncredible..dont you lose hair! dont you wish that humanity finds a cure...Thx God not all humans think like you..if that was the case then we would not have discovered agriculture,the wheel, never started doing maths, discovered the vaccination for tuberculosis , hepatitis,penicillin, never built the pyramides, never discovered the Americas or walked on the moon........It's ok to be critical but for the puropose of science and the benefit of fixing things not doing the critics for the sole purpose of being negative, destroying hopes and hitting at every single new perspective...It's ok to Hope, it's ok to Dream..that was the most powerful energy humanity had since the beginning of time and the key factor behind all the breakthroughs Humanity achieved so far..we did that for at least 5000 years and we intend to continue doing so whether you liked it or not... GIVE ME A BREAK !!!
Amilcar is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Amilcar
15.01.2008, 14:26
@ Amilcar
|
HanginInthere GIVE ME A BREAK !!! |
and please spare me your standard stereotypes "Im HanginInthere I keep my hair but you guys..bla bla"
Amilcar is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
15.01.2008, 16:20
@ Amilcar
|
HanginInthere GIVE ME A BREAK !!! |
Amilcar wrote:
I'm really starting to think that you have some vital interest at maintaing the Status Quo when it comes to MPB..thats uncredible..dont you lose hair! dont you wish that humanity finds a cure...Thx God not all humans think like you..if that was the case then we would not have discovered agriculture,the wheel, never started doing maths, discovered the vaccination for tuberculosis , hepatitis,penicillin, never built the pyramides, never discovered the Americas or walked on the moon........It's ok to be critical but for the puropose of science and the benefit of fixing things not doing the critics for the sole purpose of being negative, destroying hopes and hitting at every single new perspective...It's ok to Hope, it's ok to Dream..that was the most powerful energy humanity had since the beginning of time and the key factor behind all the breakthroughs Humanity achieved so far..we did that for at least 5000 years and we intend to continue doing so whether you liked it or not... GIVE ME A BREAK !!!
Ignore him man. I wrote something similar to your response last week.I told him his lack of faith in human ingenuity reminded me of Charles Duell (Director of U.S. Patent Office) when he said: "Everything that can be invented has been invented" back in 1899. I think he's response was something along the lines of "yeah, you're a racist f*g, you hate Asians, I bet you have no hair and you didn't graduate from highschool."
This guy just comes around here to make trouble because he doesn't have anything better to do. He gets a kick from the attention we give him, and it's obvious he hates himself. How else could you explain a balding man that picks on other balding men. He thinks he's being cleaver by insulting us than hiding behind the race card when we fight back. Honestly, this guy's a one-trick pony, and we're all tired of his reruns. Just flip the channel, and ignore him.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline
|
GWULaw
16.01.2008, 01:07
@ benji
|
Where we are at in our pursuit of hair................ |
» Follica, fresh off its "victory" of being able to grow human hair on human
» skin grafted onto the back of a mouse, will be heading into human trials
» trying to grow hair also. They plan to use 15-20 men in their first big
» test. I dont know if its already underway, or will be taking place shortly
» or not.
»
One of the articles mentioned something about this. I believe it said that Follica will begin trials soon and will have final data in around a year.
GWULaw is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
16.01.2008, 13:46
@ HairSite
|
It works in incremental steps only ... |
So the probability that suddenly there's going to be a cure that can NW7 return to NW1 (tomorrow, or within next 2 years) is quite small.
in few years (when ICX finish the trials) -- which may take several years. They have not even finished phase 2yet -- we may have something thats one step better than what we have now.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
16.01.2008, 15:03
@ debris
|
It works in incremental steps only ... |
debris:
So the probability that suddenly there's going to be a cure that can NW7
return to NW1 (tomorrow, or within next 2 years) is quite small.
in few years (when ICX finish the trials) -- which may take several years.
They have not even finished phase 2yet -- we may have something thats one
step better than what we have now.
You're forgetting that technological progress tends to follow a pattern of exponential growth. For example, just because it took a company 5 years to pass it's first development hurdle does not necessarily mean it will take another 5 to pass the next.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline
|
marco
U.K,
16.01.2008, 16:53
@ rev
|
It works in incremental steps only ... |
» debris:
» So the probability that suddenly there's going to be a cure that can NW7
» return to NW1 (tomorrow, or within next 2 years) is quite small.
»
» in few years (when ICX finish the trials) -- which may take several
» years.
» They have not even finished phase 2yet -- we may have something thats one
» step better than what we have now.
»
» You're forgetting that technological progress tends to follow a pattern
» of exponential growth. For example, just because it took a company 5 years
» to pass it's first development hurdle does not necessarily mean it will
» take another 5 to pass the next.
»
Sorry to call rank but I am heavily involved with candidate drug valuation and the figures over the board are as follows
Success rate ie no attrition
Phase I 80%
Interest to outlicense / decision to move to phase II 50% (not so applicable here)
Phase II 33% (yes, only 33% pass phase II for efficacy and other reasons)
Phase III (first pivotal dose)80%
Submission / application to FDA 90%
This onformation should be cast in stone on the forum as a reality check!!!!!!
marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
16.01.2008, 17:46
@ marco
|
It works in incremental steps only ... |
Sorry to call rank but I am heavily involved with candidate drug valuation and the figures over the board are as follows
Success rate ie no attrition
Phase I 80%
Interest to outlicense / decision to move to phase II 50% (not so applicable here)
Phase II 33% (yes, only 33% pass phase II for efficacy and other reasons)
Phase III (first pivotal dose)80%
Submission / application to FDA 90%
This onformation should be cast in stone on the forum as a reality check!!!!!!
Very interesting. One would think the percentages between phase I and II would be inverted. I was under the impression Phase I sought to seek results (however minor) while Phase II sought efficacy. Phase I always strikes me as the biggest hurdle, but that's just an assumption coming from a layman.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline
|
marco
U.K,
16.01.2008, 17:59
@ rev
|
It works in incremental steps only ... |
» Sorry to call rank but I am heavily involved with
» candidate drug valuation and the figures over the board are as follows
»
» Success rate ie no attrition
»
» Phase I 80%
» Interest to outlicense / decision to move to phase II 50% (not so
» applicable here)
» Phase II 33% (yes, only 33% pass phase II for efficacy and other reasons)
» Phase III (first pivotal dose)80%
» Submission / application to FDA 90%
»
»
» This onformation should be cast in stone on the forum as a reality
» check!!!!!!
»
»
» Very interesting. One would think the percentages between phase I and II
» would be inverted. I was under the impression Phase I sought to seek
» results (however minor) while Phase II sought efficacy. Phase I always
» strikes me as the biggest hurdle, but that's just an assumption coming
» from a layman.
»
»
I understand and it is a little counter intuitive. Phase I deals with safety and has an escalating dose. Phase II deals with efficacy (some data might be achieved in phase I but that is just a side product of the study).
The thing is that the pharma industry is quite good at predicting safety from ADME-TOX (absorption distribution metabolism excretion toxicology) studies in vitro and in animal models. Of cause this must be the case or phase I would regularly kill people. Phase II is the big one. If phase II ie efficacy was predictable then we would have new drugs every day and they would be inexpensive. The reason for this (arguably) is that there are a limited number of known enzymes that result in toxic side effects (that is toxic side effects as opposed to other side effects) whereas the efficacy for the treatment involves the novel target under investigation.
marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
marco is located in U.K and he is available to meet: NO |
Amilcar
16.01.2008, 18:34
@ rev
|
It works in incremental steps only ... |
» debris:
» So the probability that suddenly there's going to be a cure that can NW7
» return to NW1 (tomorrow, or within next 2 years) is quite small.
»
» in few years (when ICX finish the trials) -- which may take several
» years.
» They have not even finished phase 2yet -- we may have something thats one
» step better than what we have now.
»
» You're forgetting that technological progress tends to follow a pattern
» of exponential growth. For example, just because it took a company 5 years
» to pass it's first development hurdle does not necessarily mean it will
» take another 5 to pass the next.
»
»
»
» .
Brilliant observation
Amilcar is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
goata007
16.01.2008, 21:03
@ marco
|
It |
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