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akon24

26.01.2008, 00:42
 

Hair Loss & Olive Oil (Hair Loss Supplements)

Dab and rub olive oil all over your head before you go to bed. Sleep with it on your head the whole night and shampoo it out in the morning.

So why do I have you do this? Well, excess sebum hardens and builds layers of deposits on your scalp to choke off your hairs and make growing hair extremely hard. What the olive oil does is it helps break up those hardened layers and eliminate bacteria.

This prepares your scalp for the numerous techniques that will work in growing hair @




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James Bond

26.01.2008, 01:15

@ akon24

Hair Loss & Olive Oil

» Dab and rub olive oil all over your head before you go to bed. Sleep with
» it on your head the whole night and shampoo it out in the morning.
»
» So why do I have you do this?

So you can rip us off and get some of our money on a phony baldness treatment. ;-)




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Minitor

26.01.2008, 01:39

@ James Bond

Hair Loss & Olive Oil

» » Dab and rub olive oil all over your head before you go to bed. Sleep
» with
» » it on your head the whole night and shampoo it out in the morning.

I don't know whats funnier, the fact that you think people who frequent this forum would actually do what you mentioned above, or the fact that you are 24 years old and still listen to rap.... And you couldn't come up with a better handle???




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benji

26.01.2008, 02:13

@ Minitor

Olive oil component and DHT---DS labs...

This is from the DS labs website:

Spectral.DNC-L strongly inhibits the action of 5-alpha-reductase, thus limiting DHT, sebum, and hair loss.

The best inhibitor, olive extract standardized with its active ingredient, verbascoside, blocks 5-alpha-reductase for healthy sebum regulation. Ripe olives contain biophenols, a class of molecule known for antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and antiviral properties. A major component of the biophenols, verbascoside inhibits 5-alpha-reductase type-2 at a rate 3.5 times greater than the second compound, serenoa repens.




http://www.divineskin.com/spectralDNC-L/spectral-dnc-l-most-effective.html

There is the page in which you will read that.




Now this is ol' Benj......folks topical anti-androgens that have been shown to reduce body hair are out there. Peppermint oil mixed with water will reduce androgenic body hair and thus is an anti-androgen, topical green tea extract with an alcoholic vehicle also is an anti-androgen. Both are hyper cheap and easily made at home. Olive oil, even if the verbaige from the Spectral DNC website is correct, would be messy and well..........oily and make your head look like an oil slick even if it is a good alpha five inhibitor
Some of these "scams"---like Avacor and HairGenesis actually have green tea extract, beta sis, and saw palmetto in conjunction with minoxidil. Its stuff you can make at home easily for very very little money, literally pennies a day. They simply figure you are too stupid to read labels. They als mislead you by stating that sebum is causing your hair to miniaturize. Its not, your hair falls out because the products of the effected dermal papillas get the hair follicle to enter catagen early and get the immune system to attack the follice with all sorts of pro-inflammatory chemicals. Thats it, thats androgenic hairloss





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James Bond

26.01.2008, 19:31

@ benji

Olive oil component and DHT---DS labs...

» Now this is ol' Benj......folks topical anti-androgens that
» have been shown to reduce body hair are out there. Peppermint oil mixed
» with water will reduce androgenic body hair and thus is an anti-androgen,
» topical green tea extract with an alcoholic vehicle also is an
» anti-androgen. Both are hyper cheap and easily made at home. Olive oil,
» even if the verbaige from the Spectral DNC website is correct, would be
» messy and well..........oily and make your head look like an oil slick
» even if it is a good alpha five inhibitor
» Some of these "scams"---like Avacor and HairGenesis actually have green
» tea extract, beta sis, and saw palmetto in conjunction with minoxidil. Its
» stuff you can make at home easily for very very little money, literally
» pennies a day. They simply figure you are too stupid to read labels. They
» als mislead you by stating that sebum is causing your hair to miniaturize.
» Its not, your hair falls out because the products of the effected dermal
» papillas get the hair follicle to enter catagen early and get the immune
» system to attack the follice with all sorts of pro-inflammatory chemicals.
» Thats it, thats androgenic hairloss


I picked up some Fincar the other day to use in a topical. I noticed a study that showed good results in solution at .005%. That amounts to a very small amount of finasteride in the mix. I'm thinking of adding green tea extract and also using some emu oil I picked up a while back (as per Wasada). What is the best form and source of alcohol to use as a vehicle? What are your recommendations for mix ratios etc? Thanks!




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benji

26.01.2008, 20:46

@ James Bond

Olive oil component and DHT---DS labs...

» » [»
» I picked up some Fincar the other day to use in a topical. I noticed a
» study that showed good results in solution at .005%. That amounts to a
» very small amount of finasteride in the mix. I'm thinking of adding green
» tea extract and also using some emu oil I picked up a while back (as per
» Wasada). What is the best form and source of alcohol to use as a vehicle?
» What are your recommendations for mix ratios etc? Thanks!




JB,
Genhair, where Ive bought proscar in the past, has a topical formulation of topical finasteride at .25% and green tea extract at .2%, http://genhair.com/shop/product.php?product_id=10.
Perhaps you could buy one box of theirs and copy their ratios of alcohol and PPG.

The mixes Ive used in the past were adding Pure Grain Alcohol via the liquor store to the water/GTE mix I'd made. I simply addded GTE to what appeared to be the solubility limit to water, and then after added the PGA to it to about a 50/50 or 40/60 mix. Ive not tried finas topically, but I'd imagine what one might do is go ahead and buy a topical finas in a one month's supply and just copy the ingredient forulation on the back of the box or whatever. I'd venture to guess that PPG and alcohol are used at about a 50/50 ratio with perhaps some denatured water.


Peppermint oil and purified water (its a mixture, so one has to shake it a bit) reduced my beard hair at three months profoundly on one side of my chin vs. the other side. The reason Im inclinded to think something in peppermint oil is quite the anti-androgen (besides the Japanese article claiming it reduced sebum and was an alpha five inhibitor) is that the stuff keeps showing up in so many hairloss products. Tricomin has menthol, Alpecin has menthol, American Crew Thickening shampoo has menthol, Tricomin shampoo has peppermint oil, Revivogen has menthol, Revivogen shampoo has menthol, one of the new Head and Shoulders shampoos has menthol, One formulation of a coal tar shampoo has menthol, Paul Mitchell's lemon/sage "thickening" shampoo has peppermint in it, American Crew's "Citrus Mint" has Balm mint, Hair Cycle shampoo has peppermint oil, Alpecin Shampoo has menthol, Revita's newest shampoo formulation has both menthol and menthyl salyciate or something like that, some of the spiro formulations at genhair have menthol. Why would they all be putting peppermint in these things if its not anti-androgenic?? Peppermint oil is hyper cheap also---a few bucks a year. My advice to anyone considering it is to buy some peppermint oil and purified water, mix it at a 1/40-50 ratio (it burns at a one-to-thirty ratio and is painful) and put it on one side of their beard for three to four months and see for themselves how it can reduce beard hair under androgenic control


Here is the old sciencelinks article on "natural" antiandrogens (I cannot no longer find the link online, but its been posted online in various places):

Activity of herbal extracts on the control of sebum secretion.Accession number;04A0230063
Title;Activity of herbal extracts on the control of sebum secretion.
Author;UCHIUMI YOICHIRO(Maruzen Pharm. Co., Ltd., JPN) YAMAMOTO SUSUMU(Maruzen Pharm. Co., Ltd., JPN) MIZUTANI KENJI(Maruzen Pharm. Co., Ltd., JPN)
Journal Title;Fragr J

Journal Code:G0987B

ISSN:0288-9803

VOL.32;NO.3;PAGE.53-57(2004)
Figure&Table&Reference;TBL.4, REF.13
Pub. Country;Japan
Language;Japanese
Abstract;Potential activity of herbal extracts on sebum secretion was studied. Among the herbal extracts tested, polyol-soluble licorice extract P-U (product name) derived from Glycyrrhiza inflata showed the most potent testosterone 5 .ALPHA.-reductase inhibition, androgen receptor binding inhibition and antimicrobial activities, which are closely related to sebum secretion. In addition to the findings on polyol-soluble licorice extract P-U, clove extract and peppermint extract showed testosterone 5 .ALPHA.-reductase inhibition, arnica extract and rose fruit extract showed androgen receptor binding inhibition, alpinia speciosa root extract and scutellaria root extract showed estrogen receptor agonists, and sophora root extract showed antimicrobial activity. (author abst.)




In case you wondering, you can find some licorice shampoos, as well as some shampoos with clove, arnica, peppermint and spearmint, and rose hips therein also. Why in the hell would a manufacturere bother to put this stuff in shampoos if they thought there was no positive effect is beyond me.





One more thingy on topical finasteride.................Dave001, who used to post and was really smart about compounding topicals, used to put finas tablets and spiro tablets in a topical skin cream (Im guessing like Oil of Olay or cetaphil) and use it. He thought quite highly of it. That might be a very effective way to stop further loss also. I would guess he was aiming for about a 1% finas and 5% spiro formulation. Hairmedics, that this website advertises (Hairsite) used to sell a topical finasteride. They are pricey as hell, but again................you might be able to copy their formula if they print it on the package.



Im hoping ICX gets it in gear and gets a working procedure jammin' so none of us have to concern ourselves with anti-androgens, but until then...........back to the salt mines.




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James Bond

26.01.2008, 22:13

@ benji

Olive oil component and DHT---DS labs...

Thanks Benji!

I tried to buy the genhair product a month or so ago, but their online store was not working properly. In the meantime, I've noticed that some people claim the finasteride cream works a lot better than the alcohol/prop mixture. Waseda recommends 40ml emu oil, 30mg fincar, and 2ml of 50% alcohol mixed into an oily cream. Supposedly this inhibits absorption into the bloodstream and allows for higher concentrations of the drug in the scalp skin. Also, some researchers believe that finasteride works by an additional mechanism to DHT inhibition (directly blocking the caspase activity cascade), which could explain why it works well despite its inability to effectively block both types of DHT.

Interestingly, the following study showed that a .005% topical finasteride solution grew hair. That is a way weak solution that should not cause systemic side effects in even the most sensitive finasteride user. So if you have had sides, it could be worth a try to add 5mg to 60ml of solution.

1997 JOURNAL Of DERMATOLOGICAL TREATMENT 8(3):189-192
mazzarella f; Loconsole f; Cammisa A; Mastrolonardo M; Vena GA
Topical finasteride in the treatment of androgenic alopecia. Preliminary evaluations after a 16-month therapy course

Topical fINASTERIDE has potential in the treatment of androgenic alopecia, report researchers from Italy. In this pilot study, 52 patients (28 men) with androgenic alopecia applied a topical finasteride 0.005% solution (n=26), or vehicle (26), twice daily for 16 months. Journal of Dermatological Treatment 8: 189-192, Sep 1997

Mazzarella Report


They used a typical vehicle of 50% ethanol, 25% propylene glycol, and 25% water. The results were measured (in part) by taking monthly photographs, and then comparing the photos at the end of the 16-month trial. The photos were graded on the following scale:

5 Complete restoration of hair density
4 Marked reduction of balding area(s)
3 Slight reduction of balding area(s)
2 No change compared to baseline
1 Slight enlargement of balding area(s)
0 Marked enlargement of balding area(s)

Here is the paragraph from their "Evaluation of hair regrowth" section:

"During the first 3 months of the trial, the clinical response was not significant. The scores for hair regrowth ranged from 1 to 2 with no significant difference between the two study groups. By contrast, throughout the subsequent course of the study a significant improvement in the status of the scalp hair was observed among the finasteride-treated patients. At the end of the study, the clinical results were scored 4 in 12 patients and 3 in the remaining 14. Response to treatment was substantiated by both an increase in the hair density at the periphery of balding areas and a progressive, though slow and incomplete retrieval of the hair texture within previously bare sites. Patients initially grew vellus-type hair that tended to change to thicker, pigmented terminal hair as the clinical response progressed. As for the group receiving placebo, only ten patients were evaluable at the end of the study. The high number of dropouts was a result of the lack of any improvement in the status of the scalp hair. These results were scored as follows: 2 in three patients, 1 in three patients and 0 in four patients."

"Of the 52 patients enrolled, 36 (69.2%) completed the entire study period. Notably, all dropouts occurred in the placebo group after 1 to 10 months. Moreover, the overall tolerability of the treatment was excellent. No patient experienced any local or systemic untoward effect. In particular, in the finasteride group laboratory data indicated revealed no relevant change in plasma levels of total testosterone, free testosterone or dihydrotestosterone. On the basis of these findings any significant percutaneous absorption of the drug could reasonably be excluded."




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James Bond

26.01.2008, 23:24

@ James Bond

To make a .005% solution

Note: In order to make up a .005% finasteride solution similar to the one in the study, it would require one 5mg tablet into 100ml of vehicle (about 2 months supply). Inhouse has thirty tablets for $27.50 shipped. So that works out to about 45 cents a month for the finasteride. Since I bought enough fincar to kill a horse, I think I will start with the following:

Night application
40ml emu oil
2ml 101 proof vodka
15mg fincar
(haven't got the green tea extract yet)


Day application:
30ml minoxidil 5%
30ml 101 proof vodka
20mg fincar
(haven't got the green tea extract yet)

Thanks to the poster who supplied the study info that I used in my previous post:-)




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ludwig

26.01.2008, 23:48

@ James Bond

bottom line

» Note: In order to make up a .005% finasteride solution similar to the one
»so Benji, do you beleive olive oil is good to use as a topical or not?
as far as gr tea. is it benifical to use the extract as an internal?
thanks for the input




in the study, it would require one 5mg tablet into 100ml of vehicle (about
» 2 months supply). Inhouse has thirty tablets for $27.50 shipped. So that
» works out to about 45 cents a month for the finasteride. Since I bought
» enough fincar to kill a horse, I think I will start with the following:
»
» Night application
» 40ml emu oil
» 2ml 101 proof vodka
» 15mg fincar
» (haven't got the green tea extract yet)
»
»
» Day application:
» 30ml minoxidil 5%
» 30ml 101 proof vodka
» 20mg fincar
» (haven't got the green tea extract yet)
»
» Thanks to the poster who supplied the study info that I used in my
» previous post:-)




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James Bond

27.01.2008, 00:29

@ James Bond

Study I previously posted could be a fake!

After some research, I think the study I previously posted might have been faked.




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benji

27.01.2008, 01:31

@ James Bond

Study I previously posted could be a fake!

http://journals.mui.ac.ir/jrms/article/viewFile/53/19

Doesn't look good to be honest. This was tested for female hirsutism.







Ludwig wrote: "»so Benji, do you beleive olive oil is good to use as a topical or not?
as far as gr tea. is it benifical to use the extract as an internal?"



Ludwig...........The only place Ive seen that an olive oil component is an alpha five inhibitor is on the DS labs website. Although they make other products with minoxidil and copper peptides, I think I'd rather see at least a patent application somewhere showing someone thinks this olive oil component is an alpha five inhibitor topically before I'd trust my hair to it. Id definitely choose something else as an anti-androgen personally.


There IS a patent from Gillette for usage of green tea as a method of reducing beard hair. There are also studies showing that it increases the activity of scalp hair dermal papillas. There is a study (2 in fact) showing that it inhibits DHT-dependent hamster flank organ growth. Its in alot of topicals also, so somebody thinks its an anti-androgen. My worry about GTE is that it inhibits angiogenesis and it inhibits wnt-signalling. The wnt signalling might be more important for the hair follicle as an organ than we know. The only way to test for this fully would be ex-vivo testing of the entire follicle and quite frankly, a trial with topical GTE being the only substance tested. I know its an anti-androgen through the activity of ECGC and a few other of the catechins. It has been shown to reduce sebum secretions, which is also evidence of anti-androgenic activity.

Internally in mice, GTE actually RAISED serum levels of DHT, and black tea actually LOWERED serum levels of DHT by 72%. Go figure. I posted that study in the topicals or naturals forum. Some things have different effect injested vs. topically applied. Hangininthere posted a study showing that in a test tube, saw palmetto inhibits DHT better than dutasteride. However in the body, serum levels of DHT are unchanged on saw palmetto (but Saw Palmetto lowers insulin and inhibits prostaglandins and is an anti-inflammatory so it still might be beneficial against AGA, but by other means).


[color=purple]I can tell you of all the substances that Ive personally seen scientific journal or study proof of actually increasing hair counts and hair weights on human beings or apes:
Minoxidil
Finasteride,
Dutasteride,

2% ketoconazole cream.....pretty darn impressive pic and study from Japan
http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=68440&forumid=1 Hangin might have pics if that doesn't load

Prox-N, Bryan Shelton's picture at HLT in the photo gallery (wont load here I guarantee it.....2 years on prox-n alone. Pretty impressive)

Tricomin (two pics on their website, phase two fda trial---about equal to minox at 2% : http://www.tricomin.com/pages/why.html (move cursor over pictures to see second set)

Latanaprost in stumptailed Macaques---superior to minoxidil according to Hideo Uno

Internal sprio----you dont want this---major side effects
flutamide--------you dont want this either---major side effects

Apple proanthocyandins............only one picture, but its pretty impressive
http://www.applepoly.com/procyanidin-b-2/enlarge_2.htm (there are also mouse pictures of this substance which are pretty impressive)

Proxiphen, 2 pretty damned impressive pics: http://www.drproctor.com/hair-loss-pictures.htm and http://www.drproctor.com/pattern-hair-loss.html

Topical RU58841......very impressive stumptailed macaque picture, better than finasteride........http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/138/1/356.pdf. Impressive picture

Nizoral shampoo study.....about as effective as 1% minoxidil, study is at HLT in the resource library

NANO shampoo...........Chuck Fraser's picture......on Proctor's website,
http://www.drproctor.com/nano-hair-regrowth.htm Chuck posts at HLT sometimes and will verify that he was on nothing else at the time of the photos. He still uses NANO to my knowledge

The "essential oils" in a Scottish Alopecia Areata study,http://archderm.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/134/11/1349/FIGDST8013F5?ck=nck

That is really it. Everything else is conjected to be helpful, but they dont have any real third party in vivo (in humans or apes) proof. Alpecin was tested in a couple of Universities in Germany and claimed an increase in haircounts at four months..........but where are the pics? I put Revivogen on a wrist almost three years ago and it really reduced the body hair there........but the hair still hasn't thickened up to equal the other arm. Based on a study Ive read about GSE (in revivogen) being involved in apoptosis, it makes me wonder if this "stimulant' long term might be bad for hair in general. They have five pics on their website.....but no third party test conducted so who says those guys werent on minox or something? Roxythromicyn was found to be somewhat effective in pre-clinical trials.....about like you'd expect one percent minox to be. Crinagen doesnt do squat (my opinion), and everything else is "untested". I would be interested to see what a licorice topical could do based on the extremely anti-androgenic profile of this substnace and topical curcumoids are being developed, but they will have to be refined because of staining issues on the scalp (Androscience). Topical spiro has conflicting data apparently with some studies indicating it not to be very beneficial and some saying it is. It IS internally, but you get the side effects. There is a patent out for the reduction of sebum with cedarwood oil..........



I think you can see why many of us are anxiously awaiting ICX, Aderans, and Follica..............we would rather merely have better hair and not have to worry about what it takes to "keep it" [/color]




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