Hair Loss - Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article

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benji

04.05.2008, 15:18

Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article (Hair Multiplication & Research)
Post reply

Brain growth linked to baldness

The finding could lead to better hair loss treatments

Revolutionary hair loss treatments could be on the way after skin specialists found a link between a brain cell growth protein and the rate at which hair falls out.
The German scientists found that by increasing the body's levels of brain growth proteins they also increased the rate at which hair falls out.

Restricting levels meant hair was shed at a slower rate.

The finding could lead to improved treatments to get rid of unwanted hair and for treating baldness, according to a report in New Scientist magazine.

Mousy hair

Dr Ralf Paus and colleagues carried out the research at Humbolt University in Berlin.

US experiments last year produced extremely hairy mice

They looked at growth cycles of hair follicles and their relationship with brain cell development.

Their earlier research showed that when mice lost hair, there was a high concentration of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and neurotrophin-4 (NT-4) around their follicles.

BDNF and NT-4 are two growth factors thought to be important in the development of brain cells.

The earlier research also showed that the genes that make the proteins are abnormally active at the same time.

Balding from birth

For the new study, the team genetically-engineered mice to produce excess quantities of both the factors.

They found that the mice shed their hair abnormally early.

In mice engineered to produce neither factor, hair took longer than normal to fall out.

"This is the first evidence that growth factors previously thought to be important for the development of brain cells are also important for the growth of hair follicles," Dr Paus told the magazine.

The scientists think the proteins work by binding to a receptor called tyrosine kinase B.

Treatments in development

Practical uses of the finding would be increasing the presence of BDNF and NT-4 around unwanted hair or using drugs to block the receptor to hold baldness at bay.

Such drugs have already been developed for use in diseases such as Alzheimer's and multiple sclerosis, said Dr Paus.

"It's not too far-fetched to propose using them for hair disorders, particularly if you can apply them topically in lotions," he said.

However, it was too early to tell whether the findings in mice would apply to humans, he added.

This is because mice grow hair in synchronised waves whereas in humans each hair follicle grows independently.

File this under "God is an A$$hole". Tyrosine kinease inhibitors for baldness is in a patent or two.

benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

bug2

18.06.2008, 05:21

@ FatalEvolution
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� lol
�
� the smartest people i know have a full head of hair and no sign of
� baldness whatsoever. Maybe they were born intelligent whereas bald people
� tryed to over the years :-P

possibly

bug2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

FatalEvolution

URANUS,
07.05.2008, 14:32

@ benji
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

lol

the smartest people i know have a full head of hair and no sign of baldness whatsoever. Maybe they were born intelligent whereas bald people tryed to over the years :-P

FatalEvolution is located in URANUS and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

brm

his room,
07.05.2008, 10:58

@ HanginInThere
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

There have always been serious doubts about Einstein's paternity ot the theory of relativity. The guy seems to have published under his name results that were not his complete own.

brm is located in HIS ROOM and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

HanginInThere

Hair loss University,
06.05.2008, 19:42

@ rev
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

what confirms you are pathetic

is your crying to everyone on the board about me in your sig

whats wrong, too weak to handle me on your own?

definitely :-D :-D :-D :-D

HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO
---
Hangin Regimen...........

Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg

rev

your nightmares,
06.05.2008, 19:35

@ HanginInThere
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � � � � � � Brain growth linked to baldness
� � � � � �
� � � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P
� � � � �
� � � � � Have you read hanging's comments?
� � � � � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.
� � � �
� � � � :clap: :-D :lol2: :clap:
� � �
� � � hanging
� � � this is not widows...................:rotfl:
� �
� �
� � Replies like that merely debunk Benji's link.
� �
� �
� � .
�
� every reply you make, ..........makes scientists wonder if only retards go
� bald

they have you on speed dial.

.

rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO
---
InterCytex �noun
a place where good ideas go to die.

Follica �noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.

Ken Washenik, MD, PhD �noun
inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline

HanginInThere

Hair loss University,
06.05.2008, 19:31

@ rev
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � � � � � Brain growth linked to baldness
� � � � �
� � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P
� � � �
� � � � Have you read hanging's comments?
� � � � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.
� � �
� � � :clap: :-D :lol2: :clap:
� �
� � hanging
� � this is not widows...................:rotfl:
�
�
� Replies like that merely debunk Benji's link.
�
�
� .

every reply you make, ..........makes scientists wonder if only retards go bald

HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO
---
Hangin Regimen...........

Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg

rev

your nightmares,
06.05.2008, 17:15
(edited by rev, 06.05.2008, 17:20)

@ HanginInThere
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � � � � Brain growth linked to baldness
� � � �
� � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P
� � �
� � � Have you read hanging's comments?
� � � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.
� �
� � :clap: :-D :lol2: :clap:
�
� hanging
� this is not widows...................:rotfl:

Replies like that merely debunk Benji's link.

.

rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO

HanginInThere

Hair loss University,
06.05.2008, 15:32

@ debris
was einstein bald
Post reply

[image]

HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO
---
Hangin Regimen...........

Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg

debris

06.05.2008, 15:27

@ HanginInThere
pls forgive rev
Post reply

Ok all this means, no thinking guys, from now on, we do not think, every new thing you learn, makes you more bald!!! STOP DOING THAT!

debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

HanginInThere

Hair loss University,
06.05.2008, 12:56
(edited by HanginInThere, 06.05.2008, 13:25)

@ rev
pls forgive rev
Post reply

� � � Brain growth linked to baldness
� �
� � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P
�
� Have you read hanging's comments?
� Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.
�
�
�
� .

if the level of your baldness makes you smarter

Rev must be president of Mensa :lol2:

HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO
---
Hangin Regimen...........

Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg

HanginInThere

Hair loss University,
06.05.2008, 12:55

@ WidowsPeak
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � � � Brain growth linked to baldness
� � �
� � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P
� �
� � Have you read hanging's comments?
� � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.
�
� :clap: :-D :lol2: :clap:

this is not widows................... :rotfl:

HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO
---
Hangin Regimen...........

Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg

WidowsPeak

Austin, TX,
06.05.2008, 11:06

@ rev
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � � Brain growth linked to baldness
� �
� � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P
�
� Have you read hanging's comments?
� Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.

:clap: :-D :lol2: :clap:

WidowsPeak is located in AUSTIN, TX and he is available to meet: NO
---
http://hairregrowth.blogspot.com/2004_12_01_hairregrowth_archive.html

brm

his room,
05.05.2008, 19:36

@ cal
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

Strangely enough, my conclusion runs a little different:

finasteride makes me dumb. One more side effect Merck Sharp has downplayed.
That would make a nice stastistic study, like:

2% users report increased dumbness which generally disappears after months of use. Maybe their smart word for it is brain fog.

brm is located in HIS ROOM and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

cal

04.05.2008, 19:23

@ goata007
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

More findings about mice, not people.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

goata007

04.05.2008, 18:23

@ rev
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� Have you read hanging's comments?
� Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.

true dat!

goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein

benji

04.05.2008, 17:39

@ Stevi
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � � Yea!!!Germany,we the best ;-) But it dont help us now!!! :-(
� �
� � what a stupid post stevi! :-|
� �
�
� � But a interesting article..
� Sorry... :-(

Scientists are a rather balding lot.................and there are alot of engineers and scientists in Germany. Mice that could complete mazes the fastest (the smartest ones) were shown to have more fur-loss earlier than contorl (duber mice). The Smad-7 pathway was shown to be a bit elevated in the smart mice if I rememeber correctly and it correlates to sebaceous gland hyperplasia and less fur.

benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Stevi

04.05.2008, 16:53

@ munich_user
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � Yea!!!Germany,we the best ;-) But it dont help us now!!! :-(
�
� what a stupid post stevi! :-|
�

� But a interesting article..
Sorry... :-(

Stevi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

rev

your nightmares,
04.05.2008, 16:48

@ goata007
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� � Brain growth linked to baldness
�
� Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P

Have you read hanging's comments?
Short answer. NOT ALWAYS.

.

rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO
---
InterCytex �noun
a place where good ideas go to die.

Follica �noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.

Ken Washenik, MD, PhD �noun
inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline

munich_user

04.05.2008, 16:45
(edited by munich_user, 04.05.2008, 16:53)

@ Stevi
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� Yea!!!Germany,we the best ;-) But it dont help us now!!! :-(

what a stupid post stevi! :-|

But an interesting article..

munich_user is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Stevi

04.05.2008, 16:39

@ benji
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

Yea!!!Germany,we the best ;-) But it dont help us now!!! :-(

Stevi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

goata007

04.05.2008, 15:56

@ benji
Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article
Post reply

� Brain growth linked to baldness

Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? :-P

goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein

benji 04.05.2008, 15:18	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article (Hair Multiplication & Research) Post reply
	Brain growth linked to baldness The finding could lead to better hair loss treatments Revolutionary hair loss treatments could be on the way after skin specialists found a link between a brain cell growth protein and the rate at which hair falls out. The German scientists found that by increasing the body's levels of brain growth proteins they also increased the rate at which hair falls out. Restricting levels meant hair was shed at a slower rate. The finding could lead to improved treatments to get rid of unwanted hair and for treating baldness, according to a report in New Scientist magazine. Mousy hair Dr Ralf Paus and colleagues carried out the research at Humbolt University in Berlin. US experiments last year produced extremely hairy mice They looked at growth cycles of hair follicles and their relationship with brain cell development. Their earlier research showed that when mice lost hair, there was a high concentration of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) and neurotrophin-4 (NT-4) around their follicles. BDNF and NT-4 are two growth factors thought to be important in the development of brain cells. The earlier research also showed that the genes that make the proteins are abnormally active at the same time. Balding from birth For the new study, the team genetically-engineered mice to produce excess quantities of both the factors. They found that the mice shed their hair abnormally early. In mice engineered to produce neither factor, hair took longer than normal to fall out. "This is the first evidence that growth factors previously thought to be important for the development of brain cells are also important for the growth of hair follicles," Dr Paus told the magazine. The scientists think the proteins work by binding to a receptor called tyrosine kinase B. Treatments in development Practical uses of the finding would be increasing the presence of BDNF and NT-4 around unwanted hair or using drugs to block the receptor to hold baldness at bay. Such drugs have already been developed for use in diseases such as Alzheimer's and multiple sclerosis, said Dr Paus. "It's not too far-fetched to propose using them for hair disorders, particularly if you can apply them topically in lotions," he said. However, it was too early to tell whether the findings in mice would apply to humans, he added. This is because mice grow hair in synchronised waves whereas in humans each hair follicle grows independently. File this under "God is an A$$hole". Tyrosine kinease inhibitors for baldness is in a patent or two. benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
bug2 18.06.2008, 05:21 @ FatalEvolution	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� lol � � the smartest people i know have a full head of hair and no sign of � baldness whatsoever. Maybe they were born intelligent whereas bald people � tryed to over the years possibly bug2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
FatalEvolution URANUS, 07.05.2008, 14:32 @ benji	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	lol the smartest people i know have a full head of hair and no sign of baldness whatsoever. Maybe they were born intelligent whereas bald people tryed to over the years FatalEvolution is located in URANUS and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
brm his room, 07.05.2008, 10:58 @ HanginInThere	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	There have always been serious doubts about Einstein's paternity ot the theory of relativity. The guy seems to have published under his name results that were not his complete own. brm is located in HIS ROOM and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
HanginInThere Hair loss University, 06.05.2008, 19:42 @ rev	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	what confirms you are pathetic is your crying to everyone on the board about me in your sig whats wrong, too weak to handle me on your own? definitely HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO --- Hangin Regimen........... Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day DHT blockers (daily intake) Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized Pygeum 500mg Nettles 500mg Beta Sitosterol 125mg
rev your nightmares, 06.05.2008, 19:35 @ HanginInThere	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � � � � � � Brain growth linked to baldness � � � � � � � � � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? � � � � � � � � � � Have you read hanging's comments? � � � � � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. � � � � � � � � � � � � � � hanging � � � this is not widows...................:rotfl: � � � � � � Replies like that merely debunk Benji's link. � � � � � � . � � every reply you make, ..........makes scientists wonder if only retards go � bald they have you on speed dial. . rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO --- InterCytex �noun a place where good ideas go to die. Follica �noun a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame. Ken Washenik, MD, PhD �noun inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline
HanginInThere Hair loss University, 06.05.2008, 19:31 @ rev	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � � � � � Brain growth linked to baldness � � � � � � � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? � � � � � � � � Have you read hanging's comments? � � � � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. � � � � � � � � � � hanging � � this is not widows...................:rotfl: � � � Replies like that merely debunk Benji's link. � � � . every reply you make, ..........makes scientists wonder if only retards go bald HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO --- Hangin Regimen........... Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day DHT blockers (daily intake) Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized Pygeum 500mg Nettles 500mg Beta Sitosterol 125mg
rev your nightmares, 06.05.2008, 17:15 (edited by rev, 06.05.2008, 17:20) @ HanginInThere	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � � � � Brain growth linked to baldness � � � � � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? � � � � � � Have you read hanging's comments? � � � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. � � � � � � hanging � this is not widows...................:rotfl: Replies like that merely debunk Benji's link. . rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO
HanginInThere Hair loss University, 06.05.2008, 15:32 @ debris	was einstein bald Post reply
	HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO --- Hangin Regimen........... Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day DHT blockers (daily intake) Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized Pygeum 500mg Nettles 500mg Beta Sitosterol 125mg
debris 06.05.2008, 15:27 @ HanginInThere	pls forgive rev Post reply
	Ok all this means, no thinking guys, from now on, we do not think, every new thing you learn, makes you more bald!!! STOP DOING THAT! debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
HanginInThere Hair loss University, 06.05.2008, 12:56 (edited by HanginInThere, 06.05.2008, 13:25) @ rev	pls forgive rev Post reply
	� � � Brain growth linked to baldness � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? � � Have you read hanging's comments? � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. � � � � . if the level of your baldness makes you smarter Rev must be president of Mensa HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO --- Hangin Regimen........... Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day DHT blockers (daily intake) Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized Pygeum 500mg Nettles 500mg Beta Sitosterol 125mg
HanginInThere Hair loss University, 06.05.2008, 12:55 @ WidowsPeak	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � � � Brain growth linked to baldness � � � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? � � � � Have you read hanging's comments? � � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. � � this is not widows................... HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO --- Hangin Regimen........... Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day DHT blockers (daily intake) Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized Pygeum 500mg Nettles 500mg Beta Sitosterol 125mg
WidowsPeak Austin, TX, 06.05.2008, 11:06 @ rev	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � � Brain growth linked to baldness � � � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? � � Have you read hanging's comments? � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. WidowsPeak is located in AUSTIN, TX and he is available to meet: NO --- http://hairregrowth.blogspot.com/2004_12_01_hairregrowth_archive.html
brm his room, 05.05.2008, 19:36 @ cal	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	Strangely enough, my conclusion runs a little different: finasteride makes me dumb. One more side effect Merck Sharp has downplayed. That would make a nice stastistic study, like: 2% users report increased dumbness which generally disappears after months of use. Maybe their smart word for it is brain fog. brm is located in HIS ROOM and he is available to meet: YES email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
cal 04.05.2008, 19:23 @ goata007	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	More findings about mice, not people. cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
goata007 04.05.2008, 18:23 @ rev	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� Have you read hanging's comments? � Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. true dat! goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- "If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein
benji 04.05.2008, 17:39 @ Stevi	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � � Yea!!!Germany,we the best But it dont help us now!!! � � � � what a stupid post stevi! � � � � � But a interesting article.. � Sorry... Scientists are a rather balding lot.................and there are alot of engineers and scientists in Germany. Mice that could complete mazes the fastest (the smartest ones) were shown to have more fur-loss earlier than contorl (duber mice). The Smad-7 pathway was shown to be a bit elevated in the smart mice if I rememeber correctly and it correlates to sebaceous gland hyperplasia and less fur. benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Stevi 04.05.2008, 16:53 @ munich_user	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � Yea!!!Germany,we the best But it dont help us now!!! � � what a stupid post stevi! � � But a interesting article.. Sorry... Stevi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
rev your nightmares, 04.05.2008, 16:48 @ goata007	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� � Brain growth linked to baldness � � Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? Have you read hanging's comments? Short answer. NOT ALWAYS. . rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO --- InterCytex �noun a place where good ideas go to die. Follica �noun a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame. Ken Washenik, MD, PhD �noun inventor of the famous "5 year" timeline
munich_user 04.05.2008, 16:45 (edited by munich_user, 04.05.2008, 16:53) @ Stevi	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� Yea!!!Germany,we the best But it dont help us now!!! what a stupid post stevi! But an interesting article.. munich_user is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
Stevi 04.05.2008, 16:39 @ benji	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	Yea!!!Germany,we the best But it dont help us now!!! Stevi is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
goata007 04.05.2008, 15:56 @ benji	Brain growth linked to baldness...........BBC article Post reply
	� Brain growth linked to baldness Hmmm...so does that mean that bald people are smarter? goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO --- "If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein