rev
your nightmares,
09.05.2008, 15:55
(edited by rev, 09.05.2008, 16:49) |
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) (Hair Multiplication & Research) |
These comments were made by Daphne Zohar (Follica) on xconomy.com. This is, pretty much the last thing we'll hear from Follica until their next press release. In other words, anything beyond this point is pure speculation.
Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of context and posted on various websites.
Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time. Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and confidential information.
We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are absolutely focused on driving this forward.
Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
biston
09.05.2008, 17:17
(edited by biston, 09.05.2008, 17:24)
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
link? I can't find this post, daphne has just posted 2 times in 2007 and nothing about that, if u can link the url
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
haircoach
09.05.2008, 17:34
@ biston
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
http://www.xconomy.com/2008/01/04/gone-today-hair-tomorrow-follica-raises-funds-to-begin-human-trial-of-baldness-treatment/2/
haircoach is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
fckhrls
09.05.2008, 17:53
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» These comments were made by Daphne Zohar (Follica) on xconomy.com. This is,
» pretty much the last thing we'll hear from Follica until their next press
» release. In other words, anything beyond this point is pure speculation.
»
» Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various
» forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and
» inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have
» responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of
» context and posted on various websites.
»
» Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the
» most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time.
» Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and
» confidential information.
»
» We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any
» Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite
» our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are
» absolutely focused on driving this forward.
»
» Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
Great find, Rev. Its hard to read between the lines, but it sounds less than promising. At the very least, I think we can assume that any assumptions of an abbreviated timeline are unfounded. Its going to take a while, this one.
fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
biston
09.05.2008, 18:16
@ haircoach
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
oh yes this is the right link 
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
baldlatino34
09.05.2008, 18:48
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
FUNNY….I always thought that this was the biggest site of hair multiplication. because Daphne Zohar did not come here to say nothing on follica? all the users of this site do not deserve answers???
baldlatino34 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Spanish Dude
09.05.2008, 18:57
@ fckhrls
|
Does this mean no summer trials??????? |
» Great find, Rev. Its hard to read between the lines, but it sounds less
» than promising. At the very least, I think we can assume that any
» assumptions of an abbreviated timeline are unfounded. Its going to take a
» while, this one.
Does this mean no summer trials???????
Spanish Dude is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
HanginInThere
Somewhere,
09.05.2008, 19:20
@ Spanish Dude
|
Does this mean no summer trials??????? |
» » Great find, Rev. Its hard to read between the lines, but it sounds less
» » than promising. At the very least, I think we can assume that any
» » assumptions of an abbreviated timeline are unfounded. Its going to take
» a
» » while, this one.
»
» Does this mean no summer trials???????
sounded like a bunch of double talk to me..............trying to say......do not assume we know anything or that our product works.....we will let you know
HanginInThere is located in SOMEWHERE and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg
2% Nizoral Cream Topically Nightly,,,after Shampoo |
cal
09.05.2008, 20:44
@ HanginInThere
|
Does this mean no summer trials??????? |
Yeah, sounds like the classic "Get off our backs, we'll call YOU when we know something."
Although in the case of Follica, I have to believe that they'd be totally concerned about their method & results getting into public knowledge too early. It's just too damn simple for anything else.
It's not like ICX in that respect at all.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
09.05.2008, 21:06
@ Spanish Dude
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» Does this mean no summer trials???????
- it means they're a private company with allot at stake.
- it means they're tired of answering questions, and have people like us distort what they say.
- it means they know hairloss is a big deal for us psychologically, and them financially.
- it means they want to be left alone to do their job.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
09.05.2008, 21:17
@ cal
|
Does this mean no summer trials??????? |
» Yeah, sounds like the classic "Get off our backs, we'll call YOU when we
» know something."
»
»
» Although in the case of Follica, I have to believe that they'd be totally
» concerned about their method & results getting into public knowledge too
» early. It's just too damn simple for anything else.
»
» It's not like ICX in that respect at all.
Exactly.
In fact, even if trials go well..............they might not say anything until they are ready to license to dermatologists offices for fear of men trying it at home.
The hair removal emobodiment of the patent almost CERTAINLY WOULD WORK as it worked in regular mice and removed their fur.
Even if it didn't work on your head, if you had old hair plugs you wanted removed or back hair----this will help you.
Also, even if it didn't work in humans for whateve reason, as they get to watch brand new hair development on mammals like Chimps and macaques with less evolved immune systems, they will likely get to figure out what genes do what in hair follicle development and probably can identify on this BIG scale exactly what genes cause baldness and hopefully in the future develop compounds that can interdict them.
Ive not thought about this scenario either, if it didn't work in either the frontal or (shockingly to me) the donor area....................it still might work on the body. If a guy had a hairy chest for instance, he might be able to make alot more of it for a Body hair transplant as far fetched as that might seem.
There will be a trichological benefit out of this scientific find one way or another. Im just hoping more donor-area hair can be made. That alone would make my day and many other men's also. If they can make hair up front, and especially if they can make hair up front while blocking the expression of the CAG-repeat polymorphisms on the androgen receptor gene...........it would be a friggin' gold mine.
I think they are afraid if they do a trial and have success, alot of men will be trying to cop the procedure at home by doing websearches about it and being directed to discussions like we have had about it on hairsite and find the patent......................but that is probably a unfounded concern. The general public is pretty stupid and mostly lazy, and aren't into hair like us denziens of hairsite.
I hope they have success and get rich. If they have success, they will be getting a few thousand of my dollars I asssure you.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheOne
09.05.2008, 22:38
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
That 'R' guy on xconomy seems totally crazy to me.
TheOne is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
09.05.2008, 22:45
@ TheOne
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» That 'R' guy on xconomy seems totally crazy to me.
yeah, he's fairly preachy, but at least he's optimistic.
We have a serious deficit of that here.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
fckhrls
09.05.2008, 22:56
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» » Does this mean no summer trials???????
» - it means they're a private company with allot at stake.
» - it means they're tired of answering questions, and have people like us
» distort what they say.
» - it means they know hairloss is a big deal for us psychologically, and
» them financially.
» - it means they want to be left alone to do their job.
I think there was a little more to it, or rather, I wish there had been a little more to it. Rather than say "we are working on it and won't be talking about it anytime soon", they could have said, "we are positive on our technology and excited about its prospects, but due to patent concerns, we will not be releasing anymore information". There is a very big difference between those two types of statements, and the implications are significantly different. At the very least, I think we're looking at years before learning about whether or not this thing will work.
I'm 31 with a cosmetically acceptable (I'm a diffuse thinner, but with the right hair cut - not a buzz - and under most conditions, you wouldn't think I'm losing my hair) head of hair. I hope I can maintain it for at least 5-7 more years, because that's probably how long its going to take to see any new developments in this industry.
fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
09.05.2008, 23:03
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» I think there was a little more to it, or rather, I wish there had been a
» little more to it. Rather than say "we are working on it and won't be
» talking about it anytime soon", they could have said, "we are positive on
» our technology and excited about its prospects, but due to patent concerns,
» we will not be releasing anymore information". There is a very big
» difference between those two types of statements, and the implications are
» significantly different. At the very least, I think we're looking at years
» before learning about whether or not this thing will work.
I want details just as much as the next guy; unfortunately, your comments are just as speculative as mine. Neither of us knows what's going on in that company, but if it makes you feel any better here's an older slightly more positive interview with Daphne Zohar
http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1127701415&channel=245991542
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
Jtelecom
09.05.2008, 23:27
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
Well said, Rev! The speculation of speculation of speculation of speculation on this site would be quite comical if it weren't so pathetic. I have never seen so many people hang on every single word that comes out of someone's mouth - trying this way and that way to "decipher" what someone has said or written and usually spinning it way out of control and reality. Some posters (above) have even gone as far as to say that THEY have a right to know everything that a PRIVATE company is doing. Is that arrogance or desperation? Whether one likes it or not, this company is under ZERO obligation to them.
Jtelecom is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
Jtelecom
5 Strip Surgeries (4 Bosley, 1 AlviArmani)
3 FUE Surgeries (2 Undisclosed, 1 AlviArmani)
(Latest FUE Surgery: June 6, 2008 - AlviArmani Los Angeles) |
fckhrls
09.05.2008, 23:37
@ Jtelecom
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» Well said, Rev! The speculation of speculation of speculation of
» speculation on this site would be quite comical if it weren't so pathetic.
» I have never seen so many people hang on every single word that comes out
» of someone's mouth - trying this way and that way to "decipher" what
» someone has said or written and usually spinning it way out of control and
» reality. Some posters (above) have even gone as far as to say that THEY
» have a right to know everything that a PRIVATE company is doing. Is that
» arrogance or desperation? Whether one likes it or not, this company is
» under ZERO obligation to them.
speculation is part of the game. If you have such a problem with that, why are you here? You should just sit and home and wait for the day when a HM clinic to open its doors down the block from you. Until that happens, you shouldn't be spending a moment on this or any other board "speculating". And yet, here you are, like the rest of us, trying to make sense out of companies who may or may not have any viable technology to offer.
fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Jtelecom
10.05.2008, 00:10
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
I come here for the science and the possibilities, not the speculation. You, on the other hand, seem to come here for the speculation and your (expert) interpretation of Intercytex and Follica. Intercytex stock went down three points today - must have failed. Intercyex is looking for a partner - must have failed. Follica put out a statement - must be failing. Follica has not divulged their science - must be failing. Follica...- blah, blah, blah.
Jtelecom is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
Jtelecom
5 Strip Surgeries (4 Bosley, 1 AlviArmani)
3 FUE Surgeries (2 Undisclosed, 1 AlviArmani)
(Latest FUE Surgery: June 6, 2008 - AlviArmani Los Angeles) |
rev
your nightmares,
10.05.2008, 00:14
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» These companies are very obscure in their releases. They have a need to
» be obtuse - the truth can have damaging effects on their company. ICX has
» clearly failed, and yet they continue to insist that they have a viable
» product that just needs some more money and more trials. Well, no one was
» buying that, and the market didn't either, and that's why their stock is in
» the toilet. Because of this, speculation is part of the game. If you have
» such a problem with that, why are you here? You should just sit and home
» and wait for the day when a HM clinic to open its doors down the block from
» you. Until that happens, you shouldn't be spending a moment on this or any
» other board "speculating". And yet, here you are, like the rest of us,
» trying to make sense out of companies who may or may not have any viable
» technology to offer.
»
» The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different from
» those that were coming out of that company in the past. You'd be a moron
» not to take note of that and consider it when discussing the future of that
» company.
Let it go for now man.
Follica's primary task is to cure hairloss; let them do their job. Jen (their office manager) told me they were starting "initial testing in humans in Boston soon". That was from an email in late March.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
HanginInThere
Somewhere,
10.05.2008, 00:18
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» » These companies are very obscure in their releases. They have a need to
» » be obtuse - the truth can have damaging effects on their company. ICX
» has
» » clearly failed, and yet they continue to insist that they have a viable
» » product that just needs some more money and more trials. Well, no one
» was
» » buying that, and the market didn't either, and that's why their stock is
» in
» » the toilet. Because of this, speculation is part of the game. If you
» have
» » such a problem with that, why are you here? You should just sit and
» home
» » and wait for the day when a HM clinic to open its doors down the block
» from
» » you. Until that happens, you shouldn't be spending a moment on this or
» any
» » other board "speculating". And yet, here you are, like the rest of us,
» » trying to make sense out of companies who may or may not have any
» viable
» » technology to offer.
» »
» » The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different
» from
» » those that were coming out of that company in the past. You'd be a
» moron
» » not to take note of that and consider it when discussing the future of
» that
» » company.
»
» Let it go for now man.
»
» Follica's primary task is to cure hairloss; let them do their job. Jen
» (their office manager) told me they were starting "initial testing in
» humans in Boston soon". That was from an email in late March.
»
»
» .
sounds like rev is one of the obsessed guys who does endless speculation.......that drives them nuts
emails their manager? 
HanginInThere is located in SOMEWHERE and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg
2% Nizoral Cream Topically Nightly,,,after Shampoo |
rev
your nightmares,
10.05.2008, 00:28
@ HanginInThere
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» sounds like rev is one of the obsessed guys who does endless
» speculation.......that drives them nuts
»
» emails their manager?
I emailed info@puretechventures.com; their office manager replied.
Grow up man.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
GWULaw
10.05.2008, 00:42
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» These comments were made by Daphne Zohar (Follica) on xconomy.com. This is,
» pretty much the last thing we'll hear from Follica until their next press
» release. In other words, anything beyond this point is pure speculation.
»
» Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various
» forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and
» inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have
» responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of
» context and posted on various websites.
»
» Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the
» most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time.
» Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and
» confidential information.
»
» We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any
» Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite
» our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are
» absolutely focused on driving this forward.
»
» Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
I don't really see much to be worried about in this statement. I read it as Daphne saying: "Please stop e-mailing us questions regarding the things you read on message boards. It's ANNOYING."
Let's be honest guys, we know they're a bunch of us that have done that.
GWULaw is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TAGOHL
10.05.2008, 00:51
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
»
» The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different from
» those that were coming out of that company in the past.
I've seen her past and current statements, and I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. I think some people expect every sentence to carry some sort of hidden meaning that needs to be decoded. I think you are over-analyzing her remarks.
In any case, I found her latest statements encouraging -- just the opposite of what you thought. Who is right?
Despite any statements made, past or present, I still have no idea if this treatment will work. But I am happy they are going to start human trials.
TAGOHL is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TAGOHL
10.05.2008, 01:17
@ TAGOHL
|
One more thing |
» I still have no idea if this treatment will work.
Let me expand on this remark. I absolutely believe Follica's procedure can create a new hair follicle on a bald person's scalp. And I believe ICX can as well, with their technique.
So, whether someone can create a brand new hair follicle is not the issue. Hell, Jahoda created new hair follicles via HM techniques 24 years ago! (Nature. 1984 Oct 11-17;311(5986):560-2).
The issue, guys, is making the leap between generating a new hair follicle, and consistently generating many thousands of cosmetically acceptable new hair follicles, which is what a high paying customer expects.
Wide is the gap between proof-of-concept and a viable cosmetic procedure. This gap is where so many people have been stalled, from Gho to Cooley, from Bazaan to Unger, from Aderans to ICX.
In summary, I believe Follica's claims of creating new hair follicles. But I am still waiting for the evidence that what they have is acceptable enough for a treatment they can market.
TAGOHL is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TAGOHL
10.05.2008, 01:31
@ TAGOHL
|
HM - a quarter century later |
It's pretty funny that almost 25 years have passed since HM was discovered, and we still don't have a HM procedure on the market.
Nature. 1984 Oct 11-17;311(5986):560-2.
Induction of hair growth by implantation of cultured dermal papilla cells.
Jahoda CA, Horne KA, Oliver RF.
Mammalian hairs are formed by differentiation and keratinization of cells produced in the epidermal matrix (Figs 3, 4). Using the rodent vibrissa follicle as a model, transplantation studies have shown that the dermal papilla, a discrete population of specialized fibroblasts, is of prime importance in the growth of hair. Papillae induce hair growth when implanted into follicles and can interact with skin epidermis to form new hair follicles. When grown in culture, papilla cells display singular morphological and behavioural characteristics compared with connective tissue cells from other skin sources. We report here that serially cultured adult papilla cells can induce the growth of hair when implanted into follicles which otherwise would not grow hairs. This finding presents an opportunity to characterize properties distinguishing the papilla cell population from other skin fibroblasts, and, more specifically, those which control hair growth. The eventual application of this work to human hair replacement techniques can also be envisaged.
PMID: 6482967 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
TAGOHL is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
HMorHT
10.05.2008, 02:25
@ TAGOHL
|
The Biggest Blow |
» It's pretty funny that almost 25 years have passed since HM was discovered,
» and we still don't have a HM procedure on the market.
»
» Nature. 1984 Oct 11-17;311(5986):560-2.
»
» Induction of hair growth by implantation of cultured dermal papilla
» cells.
»
» Jahoda CA, Horne KA, Oliver RF.
»
» Mammalian hairs are formed by differentiation and keratinization of cells
» produced in the epidermal matrix (Figs 3, 4). Using the rodent vibrissa
» follicle as a model, transplantation studies have shown that the dermal
» papilla, a discrete population of specialized fibroblasts, is of prime
» importance in the growth of hair. Papillae induce hair growth when
» implanted into follicles and can interact with skin epidermis to form new
» hair follicles. When grown in culture, papilla cells display singular
» morphological and behavioural characteristics compared with connective
» tissue cells from other skin sources. We report here that serially cultured
» adult papilla cells can induce the growth of hair when implanted into
» follicles which otherwise would not grow hairs. This finding presents an
» opportunity to characterize properties distinguishing the papilla cell
» population from other skin fibroblasts, and, more specifically, those which
» control hair growth. The eventual application of this work to human hair
» replacement techniques can also be envisaged.
»
» PMID: 6482967 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
I think the biggest blow is Intercytex press release in March, that kind of dampen my spirits about new research despite how promising it may sound.
HMorHT is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
10.05.2008, 03:55
@ HMorHT
|
The Biggest Blow |
ICX had no threats of individuals & smaller companies copying their work in the near-term, but they really needed public perception on their side to keep money coming in.
Follica is in exactly the opposite position right now.
We don't know jack about Follica except that two months ago they were talking about trials right away and now they're zipping up. Either something actually happened in the last two months, or they're just changing their PR stance a little. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but I find the latter scenario a lot more likely.
I suspect that either Follica's method will work (in little or no different form from the procedural variantions that they've already patented), or else it's gonna be a total bust. If it doesn't work soon then it probably just goes onto the huge pile of "learning experiences" for the MPB research community.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
ipod
10.05.2008, 04:11
@ cal
|
The Biggest Blow |
» ICX had no threats of individuals & smaller companies copying their work in
» the near-term, but they really needed public perception on their side to
» keep money coming in.
»
» Follica is in exactly the opposite position right now.
»
»
»
»
» We don't know jack about Follica except that two months ago they were
» talking about trials right away and now they're zipping up. Either
» something actually happened in the last two months, or they're just
» changing their PR stance a little. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic, but
» I find the latter scenario a lot more likely.
»
» I suspect that either Follica's method will work (in little or no
» different form from the procedural variantions that they've already
» patented), or else it's gonna be a total bust. If it doesn't work soon
» then it probably just goes onto the huge pile of "learning experiences" for
» the MPB research community.
»
»
One thing comforting about Follica is that they have some of the world's best doctors on their team, Dr cotsarelis and Dr Vera Price are both big names in the hair loss community, they probably have a better chance of succeeding than most companies.
ipod is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
NW3 -
Propecia /Saw Palmetto
Topical Spiro / Rogaine Foam (quit REMOX IV)
High does vitamin C / Lysine / Nizoral / Tea Tree Oil Shampoo |
fckhrls
10.05.2008, 04:27
@ TAGOHL
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» »
» » The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different
» from
» » those that were coming out of that company in the past.
»
» I've seen her past and current statements, and I honestly have no clue
» what you are talking about. I think some people expect every sentence to
» carry some sort of hidden meaning that needs to be decoded. I think you are
» over-analyzing her remarks.
»
» In any case, I found her latest statements encouraging -- just the
» opposite of what you thought. Who is right?
»
» Despite any statements made, past or present, I still have no idea if this
» treatment will work. But I am happy they are going to start human trials.
Well, previously the company was inviting national news agencies to do pieces on them and pushing press releases announcing their research. Now, they don't want to answer questions and have announced that they will no longer be releasing any further information. That is a siginificant change in tone, and it has come about for a reason. What that reason is, we can only speculate, but you can't deny that there is something driving their sudden change in attitude.
fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Steve78
10.05.2008, 04:30
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» » »
» » » The bottom line is, the tone of her statements are vastly different
» » from
» » » those that were coming out of that company in the past.
» »
» » I've seen her past and current statements, and I honestly have no clue
» » what you are talking about. I think some people expect every sentence
» to
» » carry some sort of hidden meaning that needs to be decoded. I think you
» are
» » over-analyzing her remarks.
» »
» » In any case, I found her latest statements encouraging -- just the
» » opposite of what you thought. Who is right?
» »
» » Despite any statements made, past or present, I still have no idea if
» this
» » treatment will work. But I am happy they are going to start human
» trials.
»
» Well, previously the company was inviting national news agencies to do
» pieces on them and pushing press releases announcing their research. Now,
» they don't want to answer questions and have announced that they will no
» longer be releasing any further information. That is a siginificant change
» in tone, and it has come about for a reason. What that reason is, we can
» only speculate, but you can't deny that there is something driving their
» sudden change in attitude.
Maybe they are worried that some other companies may steal their technologies. Some poster already mentioned this, let's face it, it's a lot easier to copy what Follica is trying to do than to copy Intercytex.
Steve78 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Arch Koven
10.05.2008, 04:59
@ benji
|
Does this mean no summer trials??????? |
» » Yeah, sounds like the classic "Get off our backs, we'll call YOU when we
» » know something."
» »
» »
» » Although in the case of Follica, I have to believe that they'd be
» totally
» » concerned about their method & results getting into public knowledge
» too
» » early. It's just too damn simple for anything else.
» »
» » It's not like ICX in that respect at all.
»
»
»
»
»
» Exactly.
»
» In fact, even if trials go well..............they might not say anything
» until they are ready to license to dermatologists offices for fear of men
» trying it at home.
»
»
» The hair removal emobodiment of the patent almost CERTAINLY WOULD WORK as
» it worked in regular mice and removed their fur.
»
»
» Even if it didn't work on your head, if you had old hair plugs you wanted
» removed or back hair----this will help you.
»
»
» Also, even if it didn't work in humans for whateve reason, as they get to
» watch brand new hair development on mammals like Chimps and macaques with
» less evolved immune systems, they will likely get to figure out what genes
» do what in hair follicle development and probably can identify on this BIG
» scale exactly what genes cause baldness and hopefully in the future develop
» compounds that can interdict them.
»
»
» Ive not thought about this scenario either, if it didn't work in either
» the frontal or (shockingly to me) the donor area....................it
» still might work on the body. If a guy had a hairy chest for instance, he
» might be able to make alot more of it for a Body hair transplant as far
» fetched as that might seem.
»
»
»
» There will be a trichological benefit out of this scientific find one way
» or another. Im just hoping more donor-area hair can be made. That alone
» would make my day and many other men's also. If they can make hair up
» front, and especially if they can make hair up front while blocking the
» expression of the CAG-repeat polymorphisms on the androgen receptor
» gene...........it would be a friggin' gold mine.
»
»
» I think they are afraid if they do a trial and have success, alot of men
» will be trying to cop the procedure at home by doing websearches about it
» and being directed to discussions like we have had about it on hairsite and
» find the patent......................but that is probably a unfounded
» concern. The general public is pretty stupid and mostly lazy, and aren't
» into hair like us denziens of hairsite.
»
» I hope they have success and get rich. If they have success, they will be
» getting a few thousand of my dollars I asssure you.
i think the overwhelmingly likely scenario is that they just havent developed a technique that works with any consistent results yet.
but there is a POSSIBILITY that if/when they do perfect the technique, it will actually be TOO simple from a business standpoint, and they'll withhold their discoveries in order to develop a more complicated method of achieving the same results, so that its premise can't/wont be duplicated.
Arch Koven is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
10.05.2008, 05:04
(edited by rev, 10.05.2008, 05:10)
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
fckhrls:
Well, previously the company was inviting national news agencies to do pieces on them and pushing press releases announcing their research. Now, they don't want to answer questions and have announced that they will no longer be releasing any further information. That is a siginificant changein tone, and it has come about for a reason. What that reason is, we can only speculate, but you can't deny that there is something driving their sudden change in attitude.
Read her original message dude. Follica won't release anymore info because of speculations --like yours-- that skew their comments. Daphne's last message meant nothing... yet here we are, like Henny Penny, worrying that the sky is falling
Daphne Zohar
Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of context and posted on various websites.
However, if you want to speculate something - speculate the meaning of her second paragraph. It seems, they have to work through the proper protocols before they start scraping unnecessary amounts of flesh off people's heads (or whatever else their process involves).
Daphne Zohar
Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time. Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and confidential information.
We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are absolutely focused on driving this forward.
Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
Arch Koven
10.05.2008, 05:05
@ fckhrls
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» I think there was a little more to it, or rather, I wish there had been a
» little more to it. Rather than say "we are working on it and won't be
» talking about it anytime soon", they could have said, "we are positive on
» our technology and excited about its prospects, but due to patent concerns,
» we will not be releasing anymore information". There is a very big
» difference between those two types of statements, and the implications are
» significantly different. At the very least, I think we're looking at years
» before learning about whether or not this thing will work.
agreed.
if Follica was even remotely close, they would not have made a statement that could even remotely be construed as "forget about it for now" which that statement essentially was saying.
if it was strictly a case of them being on the right trail but not wanting information to leak, they would still have spoken about it in a more promotional/encouraging capacity. they would not want people to forget about it or abandon it and explore other solutions.
to me this sounded more like "look, we're not nearly as close as some of you are desperate to believe, so how about you rabid dogs just back off for a little while, ok?"
Arch Koven is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
10.05.2008, 05:17
@ Arch Koven
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» agreed.
»
» if Follica was even remotely close, they would not have made a statement
» that could even remotely be construed as "forget about it for now" which
» that statement essentially was saying.
»
» if it was strictly a case of them being on the right trail but not wanting
» information to leak, they would still have spoken about it in a more
» promotional/encouraging capacity. they would not want people to forget
» about it or abandon it and explore other solutions.
»
» to me this sounded more like "look, we're not nearly as close as some of
» you are desperate to believe, so how about you rabid dogs just back off for
» a little while, ok?"
You're speculating. Now re-read her message
Daphne Zohar
Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of context and posted on various websites.
Our goals are very much aligned with yours. We are working through the most rigorous clinically driven scientific methods and results take time. Furthermore, as a private company we need to protect our business and confidential information.
We will not be announcing anything further for a while, nor will any Follica representatives be able to answer any questions by phone. Despite our lack of communication with the public, please be assured that we are absolutely focused on driving this forward.
Thanks again for all of your comments and support.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO |
goata007
10.05.2008, 14:39
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» You're speculating. Now re-read her message
»
» Daphne Zohar
» [i]Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in
» various forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and
» inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact.
» When we have responded to inquiries in a measured way,
» comments have been taken out of context and posted on various
» websites. [color=gray]
Good post rev....unfortunately, some people just like to post irrational negative comments no matter what. Saying they are bound for failure when they haven't even started the trials yet is just plain stupid. The bottom line is that Follica is a private firm, giving out positive news or hiding bad news doesn't make any difference to them. PERIOD.
The reason Zohar made that post was becasue people have been speculating way too much and contacting them way way too much, which isn't constructive at all. So she politely asked everyone to forget Follica for a while and let them do their work. I don't see anything wrong with this at all!
goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein |
debris
11.05.2008, 07:58
@ rev
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» Even with the best intentions on the part of the bloggers (in various
» forums), there has been significant misinformation out there and
» inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact. When we have
» responded to inquiries in a measured way, comments have been taken out of
» context and posted on various websites.
Basically she says here, what you read on the web is exagerrated. This is not going to give you full head of hair.
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheOne
11.05.2008, 08:05
@ debris
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» Basically she says here, what you read on the web is exagerrated. This is
» not going to give you full head of hair.
Not quite.
TheOne is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
biston
11.05.2008, 18:15
@ debris
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» Basically she says here, what you read on the web is exagerrated. This is
» not going to give you full head of hair.
This means they already knows in advance the results of the tests that have yet to begin. Prophets !
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.05.2008, 03:39
(edited by debris, 12.05.2008, 04:06)
@ biston
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
of course they know. It never works in large steps but rather many small incremental steps. What media suggested was a cure for hair loss, which everyone with brains knows is not going to happen sudenly out of nowhere.
Follica will produce a treatment that will be far from full head of elvis hair, and it will take them at least 5 years from now on, before it is ready to be sold and if proper 3 phase trials are needed even longer than a decade.
Now compare this with the claims you read on the internet and from the media so far (aka just another hair loss hype) and you will understand what she meant when she said "there has been significant misinformation out there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact."
It's like that always, the journalists, and desperate guys start fantasizing about a having back full head of hair in just few years, then the scientists (if they are naive enough) try to stop it (which never succeeds). Finally after many years, the cure does not come because it was not meant to be a cure in the first place but instead of taking a lesson, everyone blames the research to be a fraud.
You guys never learn.
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheOne
12.05.2008, 08:25
@ debris
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» of course they know. It never works in large steps but rather many small
» incremental steps. What media suggested was a cure for hair loss, which
» everyone with brains knows is not going to happen sudenly out of nowhere.
»
» Follica will produce a treatment that will be far from full head of elvis
» hair, and it will take them at least 5 years from now on, before it is
» ready to be sold and if proper 3 phase trials are needed even longer than a
» decade.
»
» Now compare this with the claims you read on the internet and from the
» media so far (aka just another hair loss hype) and you will understand what
» she meant when she said "there has been significant misinformation out
» there and inidviduals drawing conclusions that are not based on fact."
»
» It's like that always, the journalists, and desperate guys start
» fantasizing about a having back full head of hair in just few years, then
» the scientists (if they are naive enough) try to stop it (which never
» succeeds). Finally after many years, the cure does not come because it was
» not meant to be a cure in the first place but instead of taking a lesson,
» everyone blames the research to be a fraud.
»
» You guys never learn.
No, you have blown her comment way out of context.
I think you need to pay more attention to what you read and where it comes from.
Most of what you wrote was purely your misguided opinion.
TheOne is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
biston
12.05.2008, 09:34
@ debris
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
» of course they know.
they can't know what will happen in human trials before start :p
» Follica will produce a treatment that will be far from full head of elvis
» hair, and it will take them at least 5 years from now on, before it is
» ready to be sold and if proper 3 phase trials are needed even longer than a
» decade.
who can say this atm ? why they need at least 5 years, and who said they need 3 phases? each treatment on which they rely is already approved, so they doesn't need additional test as phase I,II,III etc..
» You guys never learn.
I never said they will hit the market soon for sure, or it will works for sure, but your arguments are not concrete I think.
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
12.05.2008, 11:05
@ biston
|
Comments from Daphne Zohar (Follica) |
Imagine for a second that it's about 2005 and ICX's depressing phase#2 reports weren't out yet.
Imagine if there were a bunch of cases over the years of men accidentally getting injected with their own cloned donor-scalp-area tissue of some sort, and then sprouting patches of thick real hair at the site of the injections . . . I think this would have made us a lot more optimistic about the ICX project being able to work, don't you?
Well, that's basically the situation with Follica's wounding method. There are enough anecdotal cases of wounding-based hair regrowth to believe that at least the THEORY can work. It's just a big question of whether Follica has really found a consistent & marketable way to do it or not.
And all the drugs & procedures that Follica is using (at least under the current patents) are already approved.
All of this still tells us nothing concrete about effectiveness or timeline to market. However, I think the baseline facts of this operation are worthy of at least as much optimism as any HM effort in the past has ever been.
(If some of you naysayers really can't live with the idea that HM might actually happen soon, then maybe it would make you feel better to remind yourselves that the new Follica hairs probably won't have better DHT resistance than the originals did.)
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
haircoach
12.05.2008, 11:54
@ cal
|
Steinberg said 4 years |
Steinberg said 4 years in this interview. Is it true this forecast for you?
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080317/jsp/knowhow/story_9026429.jsp
haircoach is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
12.05.2008, 14:10
(edited by benji, 12.05.2008, 14:21)
@ haircoach
|
Product in the market in four years-----if all goes well.....Steinberg |
n/t
That would mean tested, working, sent out to either dermatologists offices or little "Follica clinics". This article was dated March 17, 2008. That would be March 2012.
" “If everything goes well, we could have a product in the market in four years,” David Steinberg of PureTech told KnowHow. The firm is confident that it will be a big player in the baldness treatment market, which in the US alone is said to be in the range of $ 2-4 billion. "
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.05.2008, 14:25
@ haircoach
|
Steinberg said 4 years |
"If everything goes well, we could have a product in the market in four years"
1. It will take them longer (because likehood of everything going well is like winning a lottery)
2. The odds are that it will fail and never make it to the market (just statistics, most of research fails. In hairloss, pretty much all of it fails on humans)
3. If we are all lucky and the low odds of success do happen, there's going to be "a product". Most probably it will not be full head of quality hair for average nw6 joe.
But yeah, it is true, if everything goes well, then in 4 years theres going to be a product. lol. When was it the last time when everything went well? NEVER???
You need to realize that predicting future is a probability job. And the optimistic guess for a probability of a cure in 4 years is probably < 5%. It may happen, but it's very unlikely.
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
12.05.2008, 14:34
@ debris
|
it will either work or it wont |
they need to just test the wounding protocol over the summer and we will know if it works by this time next year for certain.
they can test it with cyclosporin and without, with wnt added and without, all the various scenarios they are thinking of
it would only take about 25 men with very good close before and after photos to try all embodiments and POSSIBLE embodiments and know for sure which guys had good results, great results and no results with what
then it would be answered in full...............if you tried one protocol on three guys a piece, and it didn't work on any of them, then it doesnt work period. You could try 8 different mixes, etc of topicals with this many men. I'd just opt for internal injestion of the drugs myself over this time in order not to disturb anything happening in the affected dermis and let the bloodstream deliver any medicines up there................
If they choose to dawdle their trials, and only try one method at a time over the next three years....................it certainly could take four years to find out.
[b]MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, THEY ARE GOING TO PLAN ON STARTING A CLINIC IN EACH MAJOR CITY ALL ACROSS THE FRUITED PLAIN AND ARE HOPING TO HAVE THEM IN PLACE BEFORE RELEASING ANYTING.............IN ORDER TO MAKE ALL THE MONEY FOR THEMSELVES AND ARE DELAYING A RELEASE UNTIL THAT TIME[/b] Otherwise, if they think they have a winner now, why not test it and get it over with, and license it so it could be out by next summer delivered by individual dermatologists with their "kits" sent to them to be given to you or administered by them at their offices?
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.05.2008, 14:37
@ benji
|
it will either work or it wont |
MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, THEY ARE GOING TO PLAN ON STARTING A CLINIC IN EACH MAJOR CITY ALL ACROSS THE FRUITED PLAIN AND ARE HOPING TO HAVE THEM IN PLACE BEFORE RELEASING ANYTING.............IN ORDER TO MAKE ALL THE MONEY FOR THEMSELVES AND ARE DELAYING A RELEASE UNTIL THAT TIME
Are you on some kind of drugs?
maybe tomorrow there's going to be UFO landing here in front of the london eye.
All this hype is a product of desperate balding minds. It can't be more ridiculous than it is.
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
12.05.2008, 14:45
@ debris
|
it will either work or it wont |
» MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, THEY ARE GOING TO PLAN ON
» STARTING A CLINIC IN EACH MAJOR CITY ALL ACROSS THE FRUITED PLAIN AND ARE
» HOPING TO HAVE THEM IN PLACE BEFORE RELEASING ANYTING.............IN ORDER
» TO MAKE ALL THE MONEY FOR THEMSELVES AND ARE DELAYING A RELEASE UNTIL THAT
» TIME
»
» Are you on some kind of drugs?
»
» maybe tomorrow there's going to be UFO landing here in front of the london
» eye.
Can you think of any other rationalization of why Steinberg is predicting four years down the line for release?
This isn't a process by which different mixes of cells are cultivated, mixed or not mixed, and implanted. It will either work in a human being or it will not. They can try all different mixes of drugs all at once with a batch of volunteers and know if it will make hair in a human being (instead of human skin grafted onto a mouse) all at once and get it over with. I suppose though, since they know HM isn't in the near future, that they can take their time with it because no real competition is coming soon. That is definitely a possibility.
BTW---I dont use any psychoactive drugs and have a pretty nice head of hair...with receeded temples
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
12.05.2008, 14:53
(edited by debris, 12.05.2008, 15:02)
@ benji
|
it will either work or it wont |
He's predicting 4 years because:
a) he's not a liar
b) he gives the earliest date possible. An event that could be described as A GREAT LUCK.
I mean if you were a realist and were saying well 4 years if everything goes well, but most probably 6. because nothing goes well for us, and chances are we are going to fail. Would that attract any investor or business partner? Business is all about the most optimistic outcomes always, and in research it's even worse. research is unpredictable, and fails most of the time. If you tried to succeed in research and was telling the investors the truth, they would not give you a single penny as everyone around is lying to them or at least being highly optimistic.
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
12.05.2008, 15:13
@ debris
|
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