Dr. Woods
 
17.05.2008, 01:54 |
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape (Hair Transplant) |
On the internet, Dr Feller stated that I kept a veil of secrecy over my technique.
In 1993, I approached Dr BOB LIMMER. He was the first to introduce the concept of FOLLICULAR UNITS being generated via strip, utilizing dissecting microscopes.
His information photos etc were not as impressive as other doctors, but his information was real and honest, whereas much of the others was pure marketing BS.
That is why I approached Dr LIMMER, IN 1993.
I disclosed everything I had. I hoped we could work together but it wasn't to be.
I made other genuine and documented atempts in the coming years to other doctors and institutions but found it would be easier trying to sell a WATER ENGINE to an OIL COMPANY.
More than a decade ago, I was on the verge of derailing an institutionalised cashcow for thousands of doctors in this business, many of whom were terrified that their lack of skill and ability would be exposed.
Unlike strip, FUE required prerequisite and innate microsurgical "instinct". It requires pre existing capability , which then requires years of determined effort to perfect
I even had death threats and was warned to back off. Strip was king, made lots of money for the boys club, and my interference was unwelcome.
And all of this was happening in the mid 1990s, probably while Dr Feller was trying to pass his DO EXAM . In fact, Dr Bernstein MD joined Dr Rassman MD in 1996 doing strip in NHI.
Thats how long ago it was.
I did what I had to do and when I realised the US training college would not eventuate, I gave as much information as any competent doctor would require in order to start their own venture.
It was neccessary to do it this way because, as most realise, the HT business is NOT mainstream .
It is the wild west of medicine. It is cut throat and ruthless, each doctor trying to gain a marketing advantage over a competitor.
Just read the posts of Feller.
And manipulating before and after photos is ridiculously easy.
Employing a cheer squad chanting over and over again that questionable and crap photos look great is now a standard practice. Mass hypnosis works
On a historical note, In 1989 Dr Limmer only accepted strip. But he also only accepted an honest and credible approach utilizing microscopes and follicular units, in the face of what was a dark and shamefull time in the history of HT
Even though it was strip, his committment to a microsurgical approach must be regarded as a landmark.
Dr Ray Woods
---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant |
NeverAgain
19.06.2008, 11:54
@ rev
|
Torsion, Traction, Compression |
» » Hypocrisy!
» » Unnecessarily cutting a healthy strip of flesh from the back of a
» patients
» » head causing permanent scaring & numbness in EVERY patient.
» » Not to mention the large number of strip patients that have lost their
» » lives thanks to strip surgery.
»
» Well I never heard of anyone kill themselves over strip or die from
» complications, BUT I'm sure some of the more-butchered cases contemplated
» suicide.
»
» Seriously, I can't help but wonder how these people can literally butcher
» a person and call themselves a doctor with a straight look on their face. I
» imagine some of these die-hard strip surgeons will sell used cars once a
» cure for hairloss puts them out of business.
»
»
» .
I think it's fine if doctors want to offer strip. The only problem I have is when the doctor does not tell his patients that there is another option besides strip. I suspect most doctors wouldn't even bother to tell their patients about FUE. It is unethical not providing full disclosure to the patients.
|
the B spot
18.06.2008, 23:24
@ Dr. Woods
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
Interesting thread--- one point I will make in defense of Dr. Feller is that he sent me his patented punch AND has invited Dr. Shapiro to view his work/tools during surgery at no charge, I might add.
This would be a far cry from some of the rather "industrious" attempts to charge very high fees to learn FUE some years back.
However, that is the PAST but a couple of things:
Strip is going nowhere and still represents a quality choice for many patients. Fear mongering by FUE clinics is shameless and ignorant-- we have hundreds of patients, as do many other clinics, who have realized a tremendous transformation as a result of strip.
FUE is a great technique and when used properly either by itself or in conjunction with strip can produce amazing results.
I like to see younger patients or patients needing 1000-2000 grafts to turn to FUE as a FIRST option.
In younger patients it can bolster self-confidence and leave them options for the future.
There are pro's and con's in every surgery--- taking a 28cm long strip and the potential for wide scarring is real--- having several thousand white dots, a moth eaten donor, and subcutaneous scarring is very real as well.
The point is to educate and stop all of this senseless one-upmanship b/c as many can see FUE is becoming more prominate and gaining more acceptance.
I wish Dr. Woods would come to the US and demonstrate his technique, with Dr. Feller, Dr. Cole, Dr. Armani, Dr. Harris, Dr. Jones, etc... so we can all benefit and learn from each so the PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY SUFFER FROM BALDNESS WILL BENEFIT.
Otherwise, all of this bluster is pissing in the fan.
Sorry if this rubs anyone wrong, just a different perspective.
Jason
---
I am a Patient Advocate for the Shapiro Medical Group. My opinions are my own, unless otherwise expressed. My advice is not medical advice. |
rev
18.06.2008, 22:27
@ bigmac
|
Torsion, Traction, Compression |
» » Hypocrisy!
» » Unnecessarily cutting a healthy strip of flesh from the back of a
» patients
» » head causing permanent scaring & numbness in EVERY patient.
» » Not to mention the large number of strip patients that have lost their
» » lives thanks to strip surgery.
»
» Or look like a golf ball with tour head shaved,swings both ways.Good and
» bad in all methods
that's the exception and not the rule.
nobody walks away from strip undamaged.
.
|
bigmac
18.06.2008, 06:54
@ Travis Bickle
|
Torsion, Traction, Compression |
» Hypocrisy!
» Unnecessarily cutting a healthy strip of flesh from the back of a patients
» head causing permanent scaring & numbness in EVERY patient.
» Not to mention the large number of strip patients that have lost their
» lives thanks to strip surgery.
Or look like a golf ball with tour head shaved,swings both ways.Good and bad in all methods
|
rev
18.06.2008, 04:48
@ Travis Bickle
|
Torsion, Traction, Compression |
» Hypocrisy!
» Unnecessarily cutting a healthy strip of flesh from the back of a patients
» head causing permanent scaring & numbness in EVERY patient.
» Not to mention the large number of strip patients that have lost their
» lives thanks to strip surgery.
Well I never heard of anyone kill themselves over strip or die from complications, BUT I'm sure some of the more-butchered cases contemplated suicide.
Seriously, I can't help but wonder how these people can literally butcher a person and call themselves a doctor with a straight look on their face. I imagine some of these die-hard strip surgeons will sell used cars once a cure for hairloss puts them out of business.
.
|
Travis Bickle
Post strip surgery HELL,
18.06.2008, 03:26
@ marco
|
Torsion, Traction, Compression |
Hypocrisy!
Unnecessarily cutting a healthy strip of flesh from the back of a patients head causing permanent scaring & numbness in EVERY patient.
Not to mention the large number of strip patients that have lost their lives thanks to strip surgery.
---
It’s only after a bald man is butchered by a strip surgeon that he realises that there is nothing wrong with being bald.
It’s better to be naturally bald then disfigured. |
marco
U.K,
15.06.2008, 16:18
@ Dr. Woods
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
»
» If you play your cards right, Marco, maybe...just maybe...you could be my
»
»
» "SECRETARY OF NAPE".
»
»
» Aspirational "heir" President Elect...Dr Ray Woods
Although I often berate you for your lack of professional etiquette, I am thoght of as equally acidic in my own profession. We would likely be assassinated within our own hairarchy. By the way I am interested Xenoplastic sources for HT so maybe I could be minister of foreign off hairs. Enough of this!!
marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view |
Dr. Woods
15.06.2008, 09:36
(edited by Dr. Woods, 15.06.2008, 10:24)
@ marco
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
» Ray, A great HT surgeon you may be, but never even think about going into
» politics:-
But Marco, a global petrochemical conglomerate with a glut of synthetic plastic , and toxic hair implants has offered me sponshorship and funding......no strings attached.....honest...
SO I WILL NOT QUIT MY RUN FOR THE "HAIRHOUSE"..NOT UNTIL EACH AND EVERY HAIR IS SPLIT..and counted.
Now I know this thread is over and this conversation is just between us. So I will confide in you my campaign speech
MY FELLOW HAIRMERICANS, I PROMISE FREE AND UNIVERSAL HAIRCOVER FOR ALL..NO BALD GUY LEFT BEHIND...
If you play your cards right, Marco, maybe...just maybe...you could be my
"SECRETARY OF NAPE".
Aspirational "heir" President Elect...Dr Ray Woods
---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant |
craig
14.06.2008, 20:11
@ Dr. Woods
|
mel gibson and bruce willis |
» » Dr. Woods:
» »
» »
» » Is there a single doctor in the US that you recommend? If not, is there
» a
» » single doctor in the world you recommend? (Excluding your sister)
»
»
» Being true to the "Woods Technique Declaration of Patient Rights", in all
» 10 "laws" would help to that end.
»
» But otherwise, " recommend unto other doctors, as they recommend unto
» you"
»
» If I keep paraphrasing , I expect a call from the big guy himself...Mel.
»
» I wonder if he likes the script I sent..." LETHAIR WEAPON "
»
» I'm also working on " DYE HAIR " part 1 .
»
» Dr Ray Woods
Is this a cryptic post to let us know that Bruce Willis and Mel Gibson are Dr. Woods' patients?
|
marco
U.K,
14.06.2008, 18:36
@ Dr. Woods
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
» PS I hope hairsite dosen't mind if I put my name forward as OBAMAS running
» mate..of course there is Hillary and Oprah in the way . Getting between
» those two will be tough, so , on second thought, I think I'll stick to
» hair.
»
» Dr Ray Woods
Ray, A great HT surgeon you may be, but never even think about going into politics
marco has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view |
superflyhairguy
13.06.2008, 13:59
@ Dr. Woods
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
Dr. Woods:
I respect that answer. And it's quite funny, too. I wish you would relocate to Tejas, US---we would love you here! You're just soo damned far away and on the wrong side of the earth. Anyway, I still regard you as the best.
|
Dr. Woods
12.06.2008, 23:09
(edited by Dr. Woods, 12.06.2008, 23:16)
@ superflyhairguy
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
» Dr. Woods:
»
»
» Is there a single doctor in the US that you recommend? If not, is there a
» single doctor in the world you recommend? (Excluding your sister)
Being true to the "Woods Technique Declaration of Patient Rights", in all 10 "laws" would help to that end.
But otherwise, " recommend unto other doctors, as they recommend unto you"
If I keep paraphrasing , I expect a call from the big guy himself...Mel.
I wonder if he likes the script I sent..." LETHAIR WEAPON "
I'm also working on " DYE HAIR " part 1 .
Dr Ray Woods
---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant |
superflyhairguy
10.06.2008, 18:26
@ Dr. Woods
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
Dr. Woods:
Is there a single doctor in the US that you recommend? If not, is there a single doctor in the world you recommend? (Excluding your sister)
|
Dr. Woods
10.06.2008, 06:28
(edited by Dr. Woods, 10.06.2008, 06:47)
@ therapy
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
» »
» » Dr Ray Woods
»
» Dr. Ray Woods you are barking up the wrong tree, you have to admit that
» the "hacks" that you were referring to rarely post in the forum. Are you
» saying that the likes of Feller, Cole, Arvind, Armani, Hasson and Wong,
» Umar are destroying lives? You may not see eye to eye with these doctors
» but they are far from destroying lives in the hair transplant world. You
» made good points but they are irrelevant in the forum.
So, all is fine jolly happy and harmonious in hairtransplant land.
No problems here, well....none that you will ever hear about.
Constant vigilance , questioning, and thoughtfull investigation of each and every claim, photo , video or post is the very lifeblood of a democratic and free forum.
And Hairsite offers the opportunity and freedom to speak. So, use it , and appreciate it.
Otherwise, it would just be another sponsored cheer squad silencing all decent.
And these sentiments extend to far greater issues than hair.
PS I hope hairsite dosen't mind if I put my name forward as OBAMAS running mate..of course there is Hillary and Oprah in the way . Getting between those two will be tough, so , on second thought, I think I'll stick to hair.
Dr Ray Woods
---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant |
rev
08.06.2008, 07:21
@ bverotti
|
lives are ruined indeed |
» You just dont seem to believe that strip is the cause for some people to go
» from a healthy person without a HT to a devasted person after a strip
» surgery ?
» THEY DO EXIST, make no mistake about it.
I have a simple opinion on this debate:
STRIP is for butchers. FUE is for doctors.
In fact, I'm left shaking my head when I see surgeons advertise FUT, to this very day, as "the gold standard". Did they fall asleep and miss the news? Motorized cars have replaced the horse and carriage, global warming is real, strip leaves scars.
.
|
bverotti
Belgium,
08.06.2008, 05:41
@ therapy
|
lives are ruined indeed |
You just dont seem to believe that strip is the cause for some people to go from a healthy person without a HT to a devasted person after a strip surgery ?
THEY DO EXIST, make no mistake about it.
---
Consultant for Prohairclinic Belgium http://www.prohairclinic.com/default.asp?language=en
FUE only institute since 2004
Specialized in FUE megasessions |
therapy
07.06.2008, 14:36
@ Dr. Woods
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
» » The problem is that Dr. Woods is so secretive with his technique so
» nobody
» » really knows what Dr. Woods actually invented. He wouldn't hold a
» candle
» » in court.
»
» If you read the original post, you will realise there was no initial
» secrecy .
»
» But after numerous attempts to put me out of business , media bans, etc,
» all of which happened in the mid 1990's, I had no choice.
»
» I continued to prove FUE worked, and gave enough hints and information for
» other doctors to connect the dots, while maintaining self preservation in
» an incredibly cut throat , aggressive and unscrupulous industry.
»
» FUE and the "declaration of patient rights" was a huge threat to all those
» hacks who spent a weekend course and set up on the monday pretending to be
» "expert pioneers".
»
» It was a threat to the establishment. And in my view, the establishments
» primary role was to protect and cover those responsible for some of the
» most horrific life destroying acts of surgery .
»
» Dr Ray Woods
Dr. Ray Woods you are barking up the wrong tree, you have to admit that the "hacks" that you were referring to rarely post in the forum. Are you saying that the likes of Feller, Cole, Arvind, Armani, Hasson and Wong, Umar are destroying lives? You may not see eye to eye with these doctors but they are far from destroying lives in the hair transplant world. You made good points but they are irrelevant in the forum.
|
Dr. Woods
07.06.2008, 10:50
@ ixan
|
secrecy , hypocrisy , and videotape |
» The problem is that Dr. Woods is so secretive with his technique so nobody
» really knows what Dr. Woods actually invented. He wouldn't hold a candle
» in court.
If you read the original post, you will realise there was no initial secrecy .
But after numerous attempts to put me out of business , media bans, etc, all of which happened in the mid 1990's, I had no choice.
I continued to prove FUE worked, and gave enough hints and information for other doctors to connect the dots, while maintaining self preservation in an incredibly cut throat , aggressive and unscrupulous industry.
FUE and the "declaration of patient rights" was a huge threat to all those hacks who spent a weekend course and set up on the monday pretending to be "expert pioneers".
It was a threat to the establishment. And in my view, the establishments primary role was to protect and cover those responsible for some of the most horrific life destroying acts of surgery .
Dr Ray Woods
---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant |
Dr. Woods
29.05.2008, 22:36
(edited by Dr. Woods, 29.05.2008, 22:47)
@ canadadry
|
secrecy, hypocrisy and video tape |
» well you write nothing i wouldn't expect you to write; infact this thread
» has helped a great deal, to see the egos bounce about. For me it has not
» opened my eyes because i have been down the road before and made a mistake,
» but it has closed the odd door to a dr I might have considered.
Glad to see this thread helped, but surely you are not suggesting that doctors have egos ???....
The fact here is that patients wanting a hair transplant are extremely mobile.
They will travel great distances to see a doctor they heard about.
And they will ask " are you the best????"
And what do you think the doctor will say, even though he may be a complete hack.....
The doctor will say, "look no further, I am the best in this field"
But lets be fair. In our capitalist system, in every field of endevour, there is fierce competition. Politicians, dentists, salesmen , laser eye surgeons....everyone is competing against the guys around the corner. Or in our case, around the globe
And if you did not have an ego, Canadadry, why the hell did you care about loosing some hair.....
So Canadadry, "he who is without ego, cast the first stone"
Dr Ray Woods
Otherwise, I wish you all the best and hope no more mistakes are made.
---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant |
canadadry
29.05.2008, 10:58
@ Dr. Woods
|
canadadry |
» » amazed that professional can't control themselves and resort to this to
» » market themselves; long gone are the days doctors were held in respect
» and
» » who do they have to blame.
»
» No doctor would be here if there was no interest, demand or postings from
» people..like you.
»
» You have just contributed a small amount, but it all adds up to what is
» the new cyberspace medical market place, like it or not.
»
» You clicked onto HAIRSITE, you read, you posted, and you get a response.
»
» Hairtransplantation is the wildwest , a totally unregulated free for all.
»
» And if a doctor sees wrong doing, he should get involved.
»
» But that becomes a never ending story as a bloody debate rages.
»
» Who is right?, who is wrong? stick around.
» Otherwise, canadadry, the bar is thata way ^
»
» By the way, ophthalmologists offering laser eye surgery are becoming quite
» "market" driven and aggressive promoters.
»
» Give them a piece of your mind as well
»
» Dr Ray Woods
well you write nothing i wouldn't expect you to write; infact this thread has helped a great deal, to see the egos bounce about. For me it has not opened my eyes because i have been down the road before and made a mistake, but it has closed the odd door to a dr I might have considered.
|
superflyhairguy
29.05.2008, 08:31
@ HanginInThere
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
I think it's both.
|
HanginInThere
29.05.2008, 07:54
@ superflyhairguy
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
» Once again, just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they don't have
» time to argue or debate. . . Once again, even a perfunctory glance at
» almost any medical journal will reveal this. . . If they're soooo busy---so
» busy that they can't debate, who's to say that they're soo busy they can't
» have hobbies, etc? Being a "famous" doctor and having time to debate is
» not a conflict of two mutually exclusive phenomenon.
debate is one thing
you call what is happening here between docs debating?
I do not know if I would be so generous
jealously sniping, is more like it
---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg
2% Nizoral Cream Topically Nightly,,,after Shampoo |
superflyhairguy
29.05.2008, 07:48
@ HanginInThere
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
Once again, just because someone is a doctor doesn't mean they don't have time to argue or debate. . . Once again, even a perfunctory glance at almost any medical journal will reveal this. . . If they're soooo busy---so busy that they can't debate, who's to say that they're soo busy they can't have hobbies, etc? Being a "famous" doctor and having time to debate is not a conflict of two mutually exclusive phenomenon.
|
HanginInThere
28.05.2008, 22:24
(edited by HanginInThere, 28.05.2008, 22:40)
@ superflyhairguy
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
» » how do you docs have time to spend so much time on the board arguing
»
»
»
» That's the pot lecturing the kettle for its blackness.
nobody ever accused me of not having time to argue..........my point was how do u find the time? not whether arguing was good or bad
i am just some guy on the internet, not some famous doctor with a busy practice full of patients waiting for transplants
that was why I asked the docs...........where do busy famous docs like you find the time to argue on this board
so you equate my time to their time?
---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg
2% Nizoral Cream Topically Nightly,,,after Shampoo |
ixan
28.05.2008, 21:43
@ HanginInThere
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
» » I see something wrong with trying to patent something you didn't invent.
»
» » Even IF it is legal, it's certainly not ethical. No ethics in the HT
» » business means no money from my pocket. I must seriously question the
» » intelligence of someone who doesn't see anything wrong with trying to
» » patent something you didn't invent.
»
» i did not know it was legal to patent something you did not invent
»
» i guess its like applying for a copywrite on a logo, or a company name,
» but then in that case the law says, the first one to use the name in
» business, has a right to use the name, regardless of copywrite
»
» I have company Zmaster, for 5 yrs, i do not copywrite the name, someone
» else comes in and does that after i have been in business for 5 yrs, the
» court would say I am the rightful owner of the name, and have the legal
» right to use it
The problem is that Dr. Woods is so secretive with his technique so nobody really knows what Dr. Woods actually invented. He wouldn't hold a candle in court.
|
superflyhairguy
28.05.2008, 11:39
@ HanginInThere
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
» » I see something wrong with trying to patent something you didn't invent.
I never said it was.
|
HanginInThere
28.05.2008, 10:12
@ superflyhairguy
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
» I see something wrong with trying to patent something you didn't invent.
» Even IF it is legal, it's certainly not ethical. No ethics in the HT
» business means no money from my pocket. I must seriously question the
» intelligence of someone who doesn't see anything wrong with trying to
» patent something you didn't invent.
i did not know it was legal to patent something you did not invent
i guess its like applying for a copywrite on a logo, or a company name, but then in that case the law says, the first one to use the name in business, has a right to use the name, regardless of copywrite
I have company Zmaster, for 5 yrs, i do not copywrite the name, someone else comes in and does that after i have been in business for 5 yrs, the court would say I am the rightful owner of the name, and have the legal right to use it
---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg
2% Nizoral Cream Topically Nightly,,,after Shampoo |
HanginInThere
27.05.2008, 21:28
@ superflyhairguy
|
Hanginthere your a funny man! |
» Why wouldn't a doctor have time to argue? Do you think they're locked away
» in lab coats with no communicated to the outside? Have you ever bothered
» to read medical journals? They debate all of the time.
thanks for the update, i thought they kept them locked away in special rooms unless they were needed
---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg
2% Nizoral Cream Topically Nightly,,,after Shampoo |
superflyhairguy
27.05.2008, 12:35
@ HanginInThere
|
Hanginthere your a funny man! |
Why wouldn't a doctor have time to argue? Do you think they're locked away in lab coats with no communicated to the outside? Have you ever bothered to read medical journals? They debate all of the time.
|
superflyhairguy
27.05.2008, 08:59
@ therapy
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
I see something wrong with trying to patent something you didn't invent. Even IF it is legal, it's certainly not ethical. No ethics in the HT business means no money from my pocket. I must seriously question the intelligence of someone who doesn't see anything wrong with trying to patent something you didn't invent.
|
HMorHT
26.05.2008, 21:06
@ therapy
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
» I don't see anything wrong with what Feller is doing, it is not illegal,
» that 's what a good businessman would do IMO.
»
» » Feller wants to see everyones tool, in person or on videotape.
» »
» » He has relentlessly posted aggressive challanges to everyone performing
» » FUE, and attacked me in particular.
» »
» » So why is he so obsessed with seeing everyones tools ?.
» »
» » All the other doctors seem to be getting on with it and not giving a
» damn
» » over someone elses instruments. Its just Feller.
» »
» » Question is why.
» »
» » Here is my opinion.
» »
» » Feller regards himself as an inventor. Since early 2003 he has patented
» » various contraptions and designs regarding follicular extraction.
» »
» » Every conceivable possibility he has tried to patent, including
» » PERFORATIONS, SERRATIONS, VACUUM CHAMBERS , RELIEVED TIPS etc etc. He
» has
» » tried to cover everything with a patent
» »
» » Evidently, he still performs strip, so his gadgets aren't working so
» » well.
» »
» » But he must be certain that whatever instrument any doctor anywhere in
» the
» » world is using , they MUST BE USING AT LEAST ONE OF HIS PATENTED
» » COMPONENTS.
» »
» » That means the doctor is in breach of a patent . All Feller needs to do
» is
» » have a peek and then the legalities begin, ensuring he gets a cheque in
» the
» » mail every time an FUE is performed.
» »
» » Its what I think is the reason for his ongoing almost frantic posts
» over
» » instrument disclosure, challenges etc
» »
» » Dr Ray Woods
Here's my take on what this is all about. Dr. Woods had all the time in the world to patent his tools but he chose not to do it, now he is bitter that Feller patented all fue tools imaginable and may put a squeeze on his bottom line or even threaten to sue for patent violation.
|
therapy
26.05.2008, 18:08
@ Dr. Woods
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
I don't see anything wrong with what Feller is doing, it is not illegal, that 's what a good businessman would do IMO.
» Feller wants to see everyones tool, in person or on videotape.
»
» He has relentlessly posted aggressive challanges to everyone performing
» FUE, and attacked me in particular.
»
» So why is he so obsessed with seeing everyones tools ?.
»
» All the other doctors seem to be getting on with it and not giving a damn
» over someone elses instruments. Its just Feller.
»
» Question is why.
»
» Here is my opinion.
»
» Feller regards himself as an inventor. Since early 2003 he has patented
» various contraptions and designs regarding follicular extraction.
»
» Every conceivable possibility he has tried to patent, including
» PERFORATIONS, SERRATIONS, VACUUM CHAMBERS , RELIEVED TIPS etc etc. He has
» tried to cover everything with a patent
»
» Evidently, he still performs strip, so his gadgets aren't working so
» well.
»
» But he must be certain that whatever instrument any doctor anywhere in the
» world is using , they MUST BE USING AT LEAST ONE OF HIS PATENTED
» COMPONENTS.
»
» That means the doctor is in breach of a patent . All Feller needs to do is
» have a peek and then the legalities begin, ensuring he gets a cheque in the
» mail every time an FUE is performed.
»
» Its what I think is the reason for his ongoing almost frantic posts over
» instrument disclosure, challenges etc
»
» Dr Ray Woods
|
Dens1
26.05.2008, 16:04
@ bverotti
|
Threats |
as long as prohairclinic de Reys customers are left with such messed up donors, I cannot imagine any threats, I´d prefer a thin scar instead of this:
http://alopezie.de/foren/transplant/index.php/t/1317/
---
200 grown out minis/micros from strip session in the 90s
500 FUEs with Dr Gho in two sessions > NO DONOR REGROWTH as advertised!
July 11th 2005: 2500+ (strip) FUHT with Dr A in India > GREAT OVERALL EXPERIENCE! |
superflyhairguy
23.05.2008, 12:40
@ HanginInThere
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
» how do you docs have time to spend so much time on the board arguing
That's the pot lecturing the kettle for its blackness.
|
bigmac
23.05.2008, 04:36
@ nwone
|
Dr. Feller |
http://picasaweb.google.com/BobHaber2/HaberSpreader/photo?authkey=IzMfSCmz8uc#5202585668893214434
Have a look at thids and you will see how strip is removed without damaging the follicles.
|
bverotti
Belgium,
23.05.2008, 04:28
@ nwone
|
Dr. Feller |
»
» Just how many grafts do you think are destroyed by removal of the strip?
»
»
» Hmmm. Compromise donor vs. yeild on recipient.
Interesting.
I heared a doc one say about FUE and FUT.
If you want to plant a tree in your garden you dig a hole, you dont bomb your garden !
---
Consultant for Prohairclinic Belgium http://www.prohairclinic.com/default.asp?language=en
FUE only institute since 2004
Specialized in FUE megasessions |
nwone
22.05.2008, 20:53
(edited by nwone, 22.05.2008, 21:06)
@ AqueousSoln
|
Dr. Feller |
» » Aqueous,
» » Cool down my friend. Let’s do as you said and take the emotional out of
» » it. Let’s get back on track.
» »
» » I do not know your doctor, but by the use of the term FIT, I assume the
» » custom tools you are referring to is Dr. Cole’s patented punch holder.
» IF
» » that is what you are referring to, then it should be made clear to you
» and
» » the viewers that this device was only designed and used to limit the
» depth
» » of the punch. It does nothing as far as minimizing:
» » 1. Torsion
» » 2. Traction
» » 3. Compression
» »
» » If you are using customized punches, as I do, I’ve never seen any
» mention
» » of it by you. What do you use? I would be happy to send your doc a few
» » Feller Punches if he would send me a few of his. You are welcome to
» » critique it and describe it online. Even videotape it. As for your
» » technology, I could critique it publicly or give you private feedback.
» If
» » it is proprietary, I’d be happy to sign a non-disclosure.
» »
» » Innovative FUE doctors need to start working together, not against each
» » other. There is plenty of business out there for everyone, and the more
» » transparent we all are, the faster and stronger the FUE industry will
» » grow.
» »
» » It is very good that your clinic offers BOTH strip and FUE. By virtue
» of
» » that fact alone I would think that you are much more open in describing
» the
» » pros and cons of each procedure.
» »
» » It is the “FUE only” clinics that I suspect are less than forthright in
» » their disclosure of the differences between Strip and FUE. I applaud
» you
» » and your doctor for doing BOTH as I know it is not easy to perform both
» » regularly.
» »
» » I have to take issue with your claim of 90% success rate though. Perhaps
» a
» » little hyperbole? While there are definitely some patients that
» approach
» » and exceed that number, it isn’t many. Your claim that it is so on all
» » patients doesn’t jibe with your claim that you do “test cases”. Why do
» test
» » cases if you are consistently getting 90% or higher FUE success rates?
» It
» » would seem superfluous.
» »
» » I will only allow an FUE surgery to dip down to a 70% success ration
» » before I call off the surgery. It is rare indeed that you can get a 90%
» » success ration, ESPECIALLY in a big case. You must be using different
» tools
» » indeed!
» »
» »
» » Perhaps I’m not being clear though. When I talk about a “success rate”
» I
» » mean the ratio of FUE attempts to successful extractions. If it takes
» 1000
» » attempts to successfully extract 600 grafts, then FUE is clearly not
» the
» » best procedure for that patient…even if every one of those 600 grafts
» » ultimately grows.
» »
» » I just looked on your site and saw an FIT patient in your photo
» gallery.
» » Personally, I think the results are marvelous. But I still think the
» result
» » pales in comparison to strip graft procedures of the same number that
» have
» » been posted. I thinking anyone making such a comparison would agree.
» »
» » Your doctor should be very proud of that result as long as the patient
» » knew well before hand that an FUE result may not be as good as an equal
» » number of strip grafts. I would personally be very happy to showcase an
» FUE
» » result like that on my website so don’t take it as a negative
» criticism.
» » What makes that result even more outstanding is the significant
» cosmetic
» » difference the patient enjoys even though he has fine hair. That’s a
» real
» » challenge for an FUE doc, and your doc has clearly risen to the
» occasion.
» »
» » Again, the fact that your doctor does both strip and FUE proficiently
» you
» » are excluded from much of the criticism I have been offering the “FUE
» only”
» » clinics on this thread.
» »
» » I believe, however, that you and your doctor will agree that there is
» room
» » for improvement in this field, even for the most proficient doctors.
» Let’s
» » remain in touch and share information and tips. Who knows, maybe your
» » doctor and I can come up with the next generation of instruments and
» » protocols.
» »
» » Contact me if your doc would like to trade instruments and tips and
» let’s
» » see if we can take this field to the next level.
»
» Hey Dr. Feller,
»
» I didnt mean to leave you without a response, and there is a lot to
» respond to. Id like to continue communication as you suggest, but maybe
» starting a new thread would be good because this one has so many topics
» smooshed together. I prefer to deal with one thing at a time.
»
» I dont know about the punch holder you describe, but we have a whole set
» of FIT instruments and techniques to choose from that not only greatly
» decreases the traumas you mentioned, but they can be changed up and
» modified from patient to patient, from one area to another, etc.
»
» I think it is good that docs work together for the advancement of the
» industry, but do not expect anyone to detail step-by-step instructions with
» video. I dont think it is the most responsible thing to do on the
» internet. But, there are demonstrations and talks of this nature at ISHRS
» and other conventions for hair transplant. Patients can go too.
»
» I stand behind our growth rates. Test cases are just one example of how
» we can support this claim with controlled scientific protocol and
» documentation. I will start a new thread about test cases, and I hope you
» can read it and maybe participate if you can.
»
» It would also be good to start a thread about what you call success rate.
» We have similar terms, but also different.
»
» Another great discussion can center around FIT vs Strip results. Each
» case is different, so it is not comparing apples to apples, but I know
» understand your point. It really comes down to growth rate, density, and
» approach to the case.
»
» If you want to trade instruments, Dr. Mwamba said that he would try your
» punch and give you feed back. He is honest and unbiased. If the Feller
» punch offers and advantage to any patient, he will buy it and use it. If
» not, he will let you know exactally the features and why without being
» abrasive.
»
» However, if you want to use FIT instruments, you have to get them from Dr.
» Cole. It is not our technology to give away. Dr. Cole had doctors come
» from the US, Europe, and Asia to observe the FIT technique. So, it would
» not be unreasonable for you to visit as well.
»
» I think the field of hair transplant is at a higher level of technology,
» capability, and ethics, but it is just not widespread. The better choices
» should be displayed so that they can replace the old habits. Hopefully
» discussion can give it a jumpstart.
Torsion, compression, etc. is really a fabricated excuse to suggest that Strip provides better coverage. In the end, the strip just involves more individual hairs per procedure for less money.
There have been countless tests to suggest excellent yields from both strip and FUE.
Just how many grafts do you think are destroyed by removal of the strip?
Hmmm. Compromise donor vs. yeild on recipient.
|
Jtelecom
22.05.2008, 19:13
@ AqueousSoln
|
Patient First Philosophy |
"Although the patient's opinions are welcomed, it is a good point that the doctor is the one accountable and has the right to refuse treatment that is not reasonable or not in the patient's best interest."
Well, that was really not my point. From a PATIENT's perspective, the onus is directly on the surgeon to extract, handle and place the grafts in a safe manner to ensure regrowth. I understand your response, given the fact that you work for a surgeon.
---
Jtelecom
5 Strip Surgeries (4 Bosley, 1 AlviArmani)
3 FUE Surgeries (2 Undisclosed, 1 AlviArmani)
(Latest FUE Surgery: June 6, 2008 - AlviArmani Los Angeles) |
AqueousSoln
22.05.2008, 16:39
@ Jtelecom
|
Patient First Philosophy |
» Oh, come on now. If a patient were to watch and verify placement of EVERY
» graft, the procedure would take about 48 hours. There should be a certain
» amount of trust given by the patient to the surgeon and the trust should be
» earned. After all, the surgeon is 100% accountable, not the patient. The
» patient may be able to see the placement of every graft, but he/she
» certainly cannot see any damage/transection that may have occurred.
Good points. Although the patient's opinions are welcomed, it is a good point that the doctor is the one accountable and has the right to refuse treatment that is not reasonable or not in the patient's best interest.
The patient should be involved and nothing should be kept secret, but every graft IS excessive.
You could hook up a video camera to your microscope or loupes, however. If there were damage, the patient would be able to tell in that case.
Although the patient's opinions are welcomed, it is a good point that the doctor is the one accountable and has the right to refuse treatment that is not reasonable or not in the patient's best interest.
---
World Hair Transplant Center (WHTC)
Office of Dr. Patrick Mwamba |
Franklin
22.05.2008, 15:48
(edited by Franklin, 22.05.2008, 15:56)
@ Jtelecom
|
Patient First Philosophy |
Is someone going to watch every single graft put in? Probably not and you are right the patient should have great trust in the surgeon through there research. But it is great to have the option to watch it. Also I asked on quite a few occassions to see the grafts immidiately after extraction and how healthy they looked. Nice option if you want it. Whatever it takes to give the patient there own piece of mind. There are some clinics that have 4 and 5 people extracting grafts. If patients are fine with this so be it. "The patient may be able to see the placement of every graft, but he/she certainly cannot see any damage/transection that may have occurred." Well one thing I did see is the lack of growth from my 800 grafts previously under high powered magnification. And the doctor did not have to point this out to me with my head shaved pre-op it was clear as day up on the monitor.
|
wookie
22.05.2008, 15:42
@ Dr. Feller
|
secrecy , hypocricy , and videotape |
»
» The irony here is that I happen to agree with Dr. Woods that FUE surgery
» really should not exceed about 500 grafts per sitting. Dr. Campbell
» actually told me that herself at a meeting in NYC when I was starting my
» own “self imposed residency” in FUE years ago. I subsequently found out on
» my own that 500 was indeed the max I could do before getting tired, so it
» confirmed Dr. Woods public position and Dr. Campbell’s friendly advice she
» gave in private. That’s why I’m so confident and vocal about that being
» about the max FUE that should be done in a sitting.
»
»
thats a very interesting statement dr.feller .
if you're so confident about that number being the maximum for one sitting , why then did you say to me in the telephone consultation that i had with you in january 2008 - regarding FUE - that you may be able to get upto 1500 grafts in a single session "if it went well " ?
|
Jtelecom
22.05.2008, 13:41
@ AqueousSoln
|
Patient First Philosophy |
Oh, come on now. If a patient were to watch and verify placement of EVERY graft, the procedure would take about 48 hours. There should be a certain amount of trust given by the patient to the surgeon and the trust should be earned. After all, the surgeon is 100% accountable, not the patient. The patient may be able to see the placement of every graft, but he/she certainly cannot see any damage/transection that may have occurred.
---
Jtelecom
5 Strip Surgeries (4 Bosley, 1 AlviArmani)
3 FUE Surgeries (2 Undisclosed, 1 AlviArmani)
(Latest FUE Surgery: June 6, 2008 - AlviArmani Los Angeles) |
AqueousSoln
22.05.2008, 12:46
@ Dr. Feller
|
Dr. Feller |
» Aqueous,
» Cool down my friend. Let’s do as you said and take the emotional out of
» it. Let’s get back on track.
»
» I do not know your doctor, but by the use of the term FIT, I assume the
» custom tools you are referring to is Dr. Cole’s patented punch holder. IF
» that is what you are referring to, then it should be made clear to you and
» the viewers that this device was only designed and used to limit the depth
» of the punch. It does nothing as far as minimizing:
» 1. Torsion
» 2. Traction
» 3. Compression
»
» If you are using customized punches, as I do, I’ve never seen any mention
» of it by you. What do you use? I would be happy to send your doc a few
» Feller Punches if he would send me a few of his. You are welcome to
» critique it and describe it online. Even videotape it. As for your
» technology, I could critique it publicly or give you private feedback. If
» it is proprietary, I’d be happy to sign a non-disclosure.
»
» Innovative FUE doctors need to start working together, not against each
» other. There is plenty of business out there for everyone, and the more
» transparent we all are, the faster and stronger the FUE industry will
» grow.
»
» It is very good that your clinic offers BOTH strip and FUE. By virtue of
» that fact alone I would think that you are much more open in describing the
» pros and cons of each procedure.
»
» It is the “FUE only” clinics that I suspect are less than forthright in
» their disclosure of the differences between Strip and FUE. I applaud you
» and your doctor for doing BOTH as I know it is not easy to perform both
» regularly.
»
» I have to take issue with your claim of 90% success rate though. Perhaps a
» little hyperbole? While there are definitely some patients that approach
» and exceed that number, it isn’t many. Your claim that it is so on all
» patients doesn’t jibe with your claim that you do “test cases”. Why do test
» cases if you are consistently getting 90% or higher FUE success rates? It
» would seem superfluous.
»
» I will only allow an FUE surgery to dip down to a 70% success ration
» before I call off the surgery. It is rare indeed that you can get a 90%
» success ration, ESPECIALLY in a big case. You must be using different tools
» indeed!
»
»
» Perhaps I’m not being clear though. When I talk about a “success rate” I
» mean the ratio of FUE attempts to successful extractions. If it takes 1000
» attempts to successfully extract 600 grafts, then FUE is clearly not the
» best procedure for that patient…even if every one of those 600 grafts
» ultimately grows.
»
» I just looked on your site and saw an FIT patient in your photo gallery.
» Personally, I think the results are marvelous. But I still think the result
» pales in comparison to strip graft procedures of the same number that have
» been posted. I thinking anyone making such a comparison would agree.
»
» Your doctor should be very proud of that result as long as the patient
» knew well before hand that an FUE result may not be as good as an equal
» number of strip grafts. I would personally be very happy to showcase an FUE
» result like that on my website so don’t take it as a negative criticism.
» What makes that result even more outstanding is the significant cosmetic
» difference the patient enjoys even though he has fine hair. That’s a real
» challenge for an FUE doc, and your doc has clearly risen to the occasion.
»
» Again, the fact that your doctor does both strip and FUE proficiently you
» are excluded from much of the criticism I have been offering the “FUE only”
» clinics on this thread.
»
» I believe, however, that you and your doctor will agree that there is room
» for improvement in this field, even for the most proficient doctors. Let’s
» remain in touch and share information and tips. Who knows, maybe your
» doctor and I can come up with the next generation of instruments and
» protocols.
»
» Contact me if your doc would like to trade instruments and tips and let’s
» see if we can take this field to the next level.
Hey Dr. Feller,
I didnt mean to leave you without a response, and there is a lot to respond to. Id like to continue communication as you suggest, but maybe starting a new thread would be good because this one has so many topics smooshed together. I prefer to deal with one thing at a time.
I dont know about the punch holder you describe, but we have a whole set of FIT instruments and techniques to choose from that not only greatly decreases the traumas you mentioned, but they can be changed up and modified from patient to patient, from one area to another, etc.
I think it is good that docs work together for the advancement of the industry, but do not expect anyone to detail step-by-step instructions with video. I dont think it is the most responsible thing to do on the internet. But, there are demonstrations and talks of this nature at ISHRS and other conventions for hair transplant. Patients can go too.
I stand behind our growth rates. Test cases are just one example of how we can support this claim with controlled scientific protocol and documentation. I will start a new thread about test cases, and I hope you can read it and maybe participate if you can.
It would also be good to start a thread about what you call success rate. We have similar terms, but also different.
Another great discussion can center around FIT vs Strip results. Each case is different, so it is not comparing apples to apples, but I know understand your point. It really comes down to growth rate, density, and approach to the case.
If you want to trade instruments, Dr. Mwamba said that he would try your punch and give you feed back. He is honest and unbiased. If the Feller punch offers and advantage to any patient, he will buy it and use it. If not, he will let you know exactally the features and why without being abrasive.
However, if you want to use FIT instruments, you have to get them from Dr. Cole. It is not our technology to give away. Dr. Cole had doctors come from the US, Europe, and Asia to observe the FIT technique. So, it would not be unreasonable for you to visit as well.
I think the field of hair transplant is at a higher level of technology, capability, and ethics, but it is just not widespread. The better choices should be displayed so that they can replace the old habits. Hopefully discussion can give it a jumpstart.
---
World Hair Transplant Center (WHTC)
Office of Dr. Patrick Mwamba |
AqueousSoln
22.05.2008, 11:43
@ Dr. Woods
|
Patient First Philosophy |
"Every patient has the right to watch each and every follicle placed in their balding area, counting with a clicker if they wish, and verifying every follicle is intact
Every patient, if they wish , can watch represenative graft removal proving negligable transection rate."
I like this. We have the same philosophy at WHTC. The patient should be involved with their own surgery as much or as little as they would like. Dr. Mwamba believes that it is best to educateand show the patient without bias and allow them to choose what they want. That is why he spent the last 9 years learning and perfecting several HT techniques. To provide options to the patient.
It takes more time to train this way and it takes more doctor-to-patient time to educate the patient. But, I think it is worth it, and I hope to see more of this caliber of philosophy in this industry.
---
World Hair Transplant Center (WHTC)
Office of Dr. Patrick Mwamba |
AqueousSoln
22.05.2008, 11:23
@ topcat611
|
Hanginthere your a funny man! |
» »
» » amazed that professional can't control themselves and resort to this to
» » market themselves; long gone are the days doctors were held in respect
» and
» » who do they have to blame.
»
» That's exactly what my thoughts are regarding this thread.
»
» Medicine is no longer a respectable profession. Just greedy men and women
» doing whatever they can to increase their market share and fatten their
» wallets.
»
» This applies even more so outside the ht business. People are conned daily
» into unnecessary surgeries and medications they don't need. Meanwhile the
» doctors are fat and happy.
»
» I'm sure there might be a few left they really want to help people, but
» it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Let the buyer beware.
True true true. The pendulum has swung from highly esteemed doctors to salesmen with a scalpel. To complicate our current situation, medical information used to be big, thick volumes of text subject to a series of editions and input from several senior sources. Now, anyone can publish on the internet whenever the mood strikes them. Is it true, is it not? Who knows?
On the upside, patients used to have no option but to blindly put their entire faith and trust in their doc. Now, at least research is possible for the common man. I strongly suggest that people put a lot of research into any medical procedure or diagnosis and discuss their findings zith their docs. But, we need to hone our skills when verifying information. Consider the source, their motivation, the evidence they use to support their arguement, etc.
---
World Hair Transplant Center (WHTC)
Office of Dr. Patrick Mwamba |
Dr. Woods
22.05.2008, 10:52
@ canadadry
|
canadadry |
» amazed that professional can't control themselves and resort to this to
» market themselves; long gone are the days doctors were held in respect and
» who do they have to bl |
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