Personian
27.06.2008, 10:07 |
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss (Hair Multiplication & Research) |
Hello,
Many years ago when I was young, I've seen posts on the internet on the subject of hairloss, saying that (excessive) masturbation/sex can contribute to hairloss.
I remember back then fully endorsing the opinion of those who claimed such a connection between ejaculation and hairloss has no scientific basis, is plain nonsense, and was invented by mean people trying to deprive balding guys from enjoyment.
Years have passed, and in the meantime I did a B.Sc in Biology and then M.Sc in Molecular biology (now I'm in my doctorate).
Anyway, a week ago I tried to reevaluate my position concerning this issue. To my surprise, the claim of a connection between hairloss and ejaculation suddenly seemed to have a lot of sense.
I've been browsing Pubmed and saw articles showing that after ejaculation, the levels of Testosterone and DHT in the blood, go up. This of course makes sense, since after ejaculation it is logical that spermatogenesis should be increased, and so testosterone is needed.
It certainly makes sense that when testosterone levels are high in the blood, the levels will also go up in the hair follicles on the head, and there, some will be transferred to DHT by 5-alpha-reductase => contributing to hairloss.
I have to admit I'm not an endocrinologist. If any of you have links to papers or scientific basis that could explain why the above theory is flawed as a contributing factor for hairloss, I'll be happy to read it.
Personian is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
brm
his room,
06.07.2008, 16:48
@ ADP
|
Theory can be the opposite! |
I remember reading a study showing that testosterone levels were the highest seven days (neither 6 nor8) after the latest ejaculation.
The real problem though is the link between hormonal renewal as ejaculation triggers it and 5ar renewal in the same time. And we might have very little clues if any as to this last point. Yes, "stagnating'" T in the system from no ejaculation may seem to be fuel for higher DHT levels but a more frequent renewed production of T may look as ominous. After all, that's the underlying argument behind the more sex=less hair "theory". The amount of T produced on a weekly basis is higher and then the liable conversion into DHT is as well. I don't know what side to take. Is a constantly high but little "renewed" T more harmful than a low but more rapid turnover? I am a complete ignorant as to this dilemma but the answer may lie in the occurrence time of conversion by a 5ar molecule in the life of a T molecule(????). Maybe Brian or benji could help here.
brm is located in HIS ROOM and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting. |
ADP
05.07.2008, 21:21
@ helpme007
|
Theory can be the opposite! |
I'd like to think its the total opposite.
That is, when you don't have sex your bodies sexual hormones continue to increase. This is why after a certain point you just need to have sex. So in this theory the highest levels of testosterone and DHT would be just before you ejaculate. By ejaculating you bring down the levels to its lowest point possible (without drug interference)
What's great about this theory is that you should have sex or masturbate more often so that your hormonal levels are always low. If these levels are low then it does not interfere with your hair follicles as much. If you do NOT have sex or masturbate as often then you are MORE at risk that it will interfere with your hair follicles.
So guys, masturbate & have SEX as much as you can!!! DON'T YOU LOVE THIS THEORY!!!!
By the way its just my own thoughts on this. Nothing scientific and just makes me feel better. Actually, it may even be the case.
Can we start spreading this around instead of whoever sexual repressive person started the old tale? 
PASS IT ON!!!!
ADP is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
helpme007
03.07.2008, 05:18
@ Personian
|
who wants to stop making sex coz of this theory? |
n/t
helpme007 has 3 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
helpme007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
03.07.2008, 00:20
@ follicawork!
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Hey, you don't have to convince ME that there's no real link.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
follicawork!
New York City,
02.07.2008, 21:16
@ cal
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
» The research says no.
»
» A few people think it does. But there's never any evidence to back that
» up.
oh kk.... how about people that have great hair for a long time??? they dont have sex and are ultra virgins???? lolol this sound rediculous.
follicawork! is located in NEW YORK CITY and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
02.07.2008, 16:06
@ follicawork!
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
The research says no.
A few people think it does. But there's never any evidence to back that up.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
follicawork!
New York City,
02.07.2008, 15:20
@ cal
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
so does it cuase hair loss or not?
follicawork! is located in NEW YORK CITY and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
02.07.2008, 09:25
@ bucket
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
But that's just it - pointing out a link between ejaculation and hormone production is not a new development. It's not being argued against in the first place.
The detracters aren't questioning a link between masturbation and DHT/Test production. They're questioning whether the proportional size/duration of that little spike is enough to be anything approaching relevant to our situation.
Here's an idea:
If somebody proves a link between weightlifting and increased hair loss, THEN I will listen to the masturbation theories. The same kind of temporary hormone elevation occurs afterwards (but probably much higher), and I would think that would be a hell of a lot easier to prove. But so far I have not been convinced of this link.
I don't think the studies done on this issue ever adequately account for the HUGE influence of various androgen-boosting supplements. The powerful scary illegal ones are only half the story.
I once read a statistic that something like one in 30 american HIGH-SCHOOL kids has been on illegal steroids. And for every one kid trying the illegal dangerous stuff, think of how many more are probably trying the OTC "safe" stuff that causes lesser amounts of similiar effects. And we're just talking the (total) high school kid population here, not even specifically the young adult population that's in the gym yet. The number is this high for kids, and they probably have to beg for allowance money to pay for half the stuff and then find someone else's mailing address just to send it to.
And the fact is, weightlifting has become a very common and accepted way to COPE with hair loss after it has started already. I want to see THAT factor accounted for when they study this issue.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
bucket
01.07.2008, 21:39
@ cal
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
I am definitely not pro masturbation = hair loss. I am not trying to make this work out through deduction. But as for disregarding scientific evidence. I'm regarding it. Scientifically, ejaculation raises testosterone. Scientifically, testosterone gets converted. Of course, their are multiple aspects of this to consider before making a proof masturbation = hair loss. But this is at least a hypothesis worth examining, if even to prove it wrong.
Also, there is a lot of discussion out in this post about "It is not logical that everybody that has sex would go bald, use your basic observation skills." This is true, and it's because of the fact that not all men have hairs that are DHT sensitive at the same age. Therefore, it is possible a sex fiend who ejaculates 5 times a day and is blessed with DHT resistent hair could have much better hair than a casual sex practicer of two ejaculations a week with hair that is not resistent to DHT. There are lots of factors to consider.
Masturbation seems like it might have a link to hair loss.
»
» And the earth also seems to be flat.
»
»
»
» Both of these things fly in the face of conventional scientific thinking.
» And yet both seem to make some plausible sense to the observer. (A flat
» earth actually makes a hell of a lot more gut-level sense than the
» alternative accepted theory.)
»
» All the observer has to do is disregard the current scientific evidence to
» the contrary, and start trying to find his own correlations for things. It
» won't take him long to start amassing a very reasonable-sounding set of
» observations in favor of both of these ideas.
»
»
»
» But the problem is, a bunch of reasonable-sounding correlations aren't
» enough.
»
» If I fly in one direction for long enough, I still come back to where I
» started. And if I stop masturbating, I still keep on going bald.
bucket is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Wiskers
01.07.2008, 18:46
(edited by Wiskers, 01.07.2008, 18:52)
@ cal
|
Hmmm...? |
Cal,
I like your analogy, but I'm not so sure...
I heard that when trying to take a dump, if you strain really hard, the poop can press against your prostate, causing DHT to increase at an exponential level.
Further evidence shows that after 10-20 of such dumps, your hair density will go down by at least 10%.
The only thing that can be done about this, is to make the poop less solid, such that the pressure placed on the prostate is not as forceful.
In conclusion, it makes sense that if one wishes to keep his hair, he must induce diarrhea so that every trip to the bathroom places as little stress on the prostate as possible.
BTW, I have just completed my Bachelor's degree in economics, so I am fully informed in the science of cause and effect.
Wiskers is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
01.07.2008, 17:48
@ bucket
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Masturbation seems like it might have a link to hair loss.
And the earth also seems to be flat.
Both of these things fly in the face of conventional scientific thinking. And yet both seem to make some plausible sense to the observer. (A flat earth actually makes a hell of a lot more gut-level sense than the alternative accepted theory.)
All the observer has to do is disregard the current scientific evidence to the contrary, and start trying to find his own correlations for things. It won't take him long to start amassing a very reasonable-sounding set of observations in favor of both of these ideas.
But the problem is, a bunch of reasonable-sounding correlations aren't enough.
If I fly in one direction for long enough, I still come back to where I started. And if I stop masturbating, I still keep on going bald.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
bucket
01.07.2008, 12:17
@ Personian
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
This really interests me. Lately I've been thinking about it awhile independently of having read this post. I like an ejaculation as much as the next guy, but have lately been trying to cut back. If I do do it, I immediately picture my head being surged with testosterone and potential DHT.
Now, somebody stated earlier that it should be no problem if you are on propeica, but remember, Propecia reduces only 72% of the DHT production vs. the 90% or so from Avodart. Also, this is just the DHT level, it reduces even less of the DHT serum. Wasn't it 52% or so?
Now, I don't want to be pessimistic, but realistic. The author of this original post here presented a very pertinent topic to all of us. If it turns out that, sadly, more ejaculation makes more DHT, than we should at least be aware of this, whether we heed it or not. I would love to discuss this further.
» Hello,
»
» Many years ago when I was young, I've seen posts on the internet on the
» subject of hairloss, saying that (excessive) masturbation/sex can
» contribute to hairloss.
»
» I remember back then fully endorsing the opinion of those who claimed such
» a connection between ejaculation and hairloss has no scientific basis, is
» plain nonsense, and was invented by mean people trying to deprive balding
» guys from enjoyment.
»
» Years have passed, and in the meantime I did a B.Sc in Biology and then
» M.Sc in Molecular biology (now I'm in my doctorate).
»
» Anyway, a week ago I tried to reevaluate my position concerning this
» issue. To my surprise, the claim of a connection between hairloss and
» ejaculation suddenly seemed to have a lot of sense.
»
» I've been browsing Pubmed and saw articles showing that after ejaculation,
» the levels of Testosterone and DHT in the blood, go up. This of course
» makes sense, since after ejaculation it is logical that spermatogenesis
» should be increased, and so testosterone is needed.
»
» It certainly makes sense that when testosterone levels are high in the
» blood, the levels will also go up in the hair follicles on the head, and
» there, some will be transferred to DHT by 5-alpha-reductase => contributing
» to hairloss.
»
» I have to admit I'm not an endocrinologist. If any of you have links to
» papers or scientific basis that could explain why the above theory is
» flawed as a contributing factor for hairloss, I'll be happy to read it.
bucket is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
28.06.2008, 07:17
@ benji
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
how do you explain this?
http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-30179.html
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
28.06.2008, 01:36
@ cal
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
» Personian, have you looked into what research HAS been done on masturbation
» and hair loss already? I'm not sure about where & when, but think it's
» been studied before.
»
» To tell you the truth, I don't think any study on earth would ever stop
» people from wanting to prove a link between masturbation and MPB. Too many
» people just want to find something to vilify masturbation with, and too
» many people also want to find some way to believe that MPB is the result of
» their sinful life.
To be honest I do think that sex does affect your hair if you are a mpb guy. But I doubt it is any significant. I know few ppl who do not masturbate and have no sex life either because they are priests. And bald priests. One of them I know very well. I'm 100% sure he would not touch himself.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
28.06.2008, 01:33
(edited by debris, 28.06.2008, 02:12)
@ benji
|
proves my point............ |
I think T levels in the follicle would have to be enormous. Perhaps this just proves that serum levels and scalp levels are two different things.
The two studies hairsite posted prove that this in fact is the case. if T : DHT ratio stays the same, and balding guys have higher DHT in scalp than non balding, but similar serum androgen levels, then their serum T : scalp DHT is different from the non balding guys, showing nicely to what a degree the serum level studies are irrelevant to your hair.
Connecting serum level study with in vitro study on a follicle cells thus makes only little sense.
For me what matters is my hair. It thickened big time since I read the regrowth success and started copying it.
I've also read interesting study yesterday that said that DHT levels in the balding and non balding scalp areas of the same guy do vary. The balding scalp has much higher dht levels then the hairy areas. So in fact it surely must be just the DHT inside of that follicle that matters because if you take follicle from the non balding area and move it a dip of just 0.75 in diameter seems to be enough to protect the moved follicle from the neighbouring dht levels forever.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
27.06.2008, 18:06
@ HairSite Admin
|
proves my point............ |
» Effect of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and testosterone on apoptosis in
» human dermal papilla cells.
»
» Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2006;19(6):311-21
»
» Pathogenetic mechanisms in androgenetic alopecia are not yet fully
» understood; however, it is commonly accepted that androgens like
» testosterone (T) and 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT) inhibit hair
» follicle activity with early induction of the catagen.
»
» Thus, we investigated the influence of T and 5alpha-DHT on proliferation,
» cell death and bcl-2/bax expression in cultured dermal papilla cells (DPC)
» from nonbalding scalp regions of healthy volunteers.
»
» T and 5alpha-DHT induced apoptosis in DPC in a dose-dependent and
» time-related manner; in addition a necrotic effect due to T at 10(-5) M was
» found. Interestingly, bcl-2 protein expression was decreased in T- and
» 5alpha-DHT-treated cells, leading to an increase in the bax/bcl-2 ratio.
»
» In addition, T and 5alpha-DHT induced proteolytic cleavage of caspase 8
» and inhibited proliferation of DPC at 10(-5) M. High concentrations of T
» and 5alpha-DHT were needed to induce apoptotic effects in DPC.
»
» These data suggest that DPC from nonbalding scalp regions do have the
» capacity to undergo apoptosis, but need a high androgen stimulus.
»
» The present study provides an interesting new pathogenetic approach in
» androgenetic alopecia.
both T and DHT could cause apoptosis.
DHT has a five-times slower dissasssociation rate from the androgen receptor, so it stays bound longer before chemically degrading than T does, but they unlock the same genes within the dermal papilla when uptaken. DHT also has a higher affinity for the receptor than T does, but both actively bind. Without DHT, the androgenic stimulis to the follicle likely never gets high enough to "kick off" baldness to start with (pseudohermaphrodites in the caribbean), but post-beginning of AGA in a subject, T contributes to the process just like DHT, but more slowly. Both SUCK for your hair.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
27.06.2008, 18:01
@ debris
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
»
» benji: if you go to regrowth.com there are a lot of guys doing it. I tried
» that and it does work. as long as you stop T->DHT, a lot of T will help
» your hair. In fact most of the guys there do not take propecia. They just
» boost their T levels and use natural supplements to reduce inflamation. I
» dunno if some of the supplements they take reduces 5AR. I never stopped
» taking fin and do not plan to.
»
» And because I've been on similar T boosting regimen for several months
» already I can confirm they are true. It does work.
»
tons of bodybuilders go bald...............and quickly, while having very high T levels
Androgenic alopecia is shown to be a genetic consequence of a particular variant of the androgen receptor gene that just shy of 99.0% of all balding men just happen to have---and its severtiy linked to how many cag-repeat mutations of that gene are on their chromosomes. These web sites are increasingly full of loons and moderated by fabulously indulgent moderators who allow people to post garbage they make up in their own minds, slanted brutally by what they wish to think about baldness---i.e. that your hair doesn't really have bad genetics that predispose it to be weak in response to testosterone or any of its derivatives
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
27.06.2008, 16:51
@ debris
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Personian, have you looked into what research HAS been done on masturbation and hair loss already? I'm not sure about where & when, but think it's been studied before.
To tell you the truth, I don't think any study on earth would ever stop people from wanting to prove a link between masturbation and MPB. Too many people just want to find something to vilify masturbation with, and too many people also want to find some way to believe that MPB is the result of their sinful life.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
27.06.2008, 15:26
@ HairSite Admin
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Hairsite: that study says dht:t ratio stays constant. But that surely was done only on patients that do not try to alternate any of their hormone levels. So its a study that says if you are a normal guy who does not give a sht about hair, does not take any steroids and does not mess with his hormone levels, your dht:t will be pretty much constant.
What we know though is that if you block 5ar, t will go up dht down. hairwise this translates to more hair. of course this does not prove anything as well. legit opinion is that it is only the dht that goes down that actually helps the hair growth and I'm not going to argue with that because it surely is true that low dht is better for mpb. what I'm convinced though is that low dht + reasonably increased T is better for hair then just low dht.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
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debris
27.06.2008, 15:16
@ Personian
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
You should also include prolactin.
http://ajp.amjpathol.org/cgi/content/abstract/168/3/748
Human Scalp Hair Follicles Are Both a Target and a Source of Prolactin, which Serves as an Autocrine and/or Paracrine Promoter of Apoptosis-Driven Hair Follicle Regression
Kerstin Foitzik*, Karoline Krause*, Franziska Conrad*, Motonobu Nakamura*, Wolfang Funk and Ralf Paus*
From the Department of Dermatology,* University Hospital Hamburg-Eppendorf, University of Hamburg, Hamburg, Germany; the Department of Dermatology, University Hospital Schleswig-Holstein, Campus Lübeck, University of Lübeck, Lübeck, Germany; Klinik Doctor Kozlowski, München, Germany; and Kyoto University, Kyoto, Japan
The prototypic pituitary hormone prolactin (PRL) exerts a wide variety of bioregulatory effects in mammals and is also found in extrapituitary sites, including murine skin. Here, we show by reverse transcriptase-polymerase chain reaction and immunohistology that, contrary to a previous report, human skin and normal human scalp hair follicles (HFs), in particular, express both PRL and PRL receptors (PRL-R) at the mRNA and protein level. PRL and PRL-R immunoreactivity can be detected in the epithelium of human anagen VI HFs, while the HF mesenchyme is negative. During the HF transformation from growth (anagen) to apoptosis-driven regression (catagen), PRL and PRL-R immunoreactivity appear up-regulated. Treatment of organ-cultured human scalp HFs with high-dose PRL (400 ng/ml) results in a significant inhibition of hair shaft elongation and premature catagen development, along with reduced proliferation and increased apoptosis of hair bulb keratinocytes (Ki-67/terminal dUTP nick-end labeling immunohistomorphometry). This shows that PRL receptors, expressed in HFs, are functional and that human skin and human scalp HFs are both direct targets and sources of PRL. Our data suggest that PRL acts as an autocrine hair growth modulator with catagen-promoting functions and that the hair growth-inhibitory effects of PRL demonstrated here may underlie the as yet ill-understood hair loss in patients with hyper-prolactinemia.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Personian
27.06.2008, 15:14
@ cal
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
» If there was a link between sexual activity and hair loss, I really think
» we would have seen it by now. There is plenty of variation in the amounts
» of sex had by varying males, and the issue makes perfect sense to pay
» attention to in general (witness how often it gets brought up). It has
» been looked at in the past.
What I would have liked to see is the following experiment:
- Take 200 balding guys, divide them to two 100 groups.
- One group should ejaculate every day, the other group should not ejaculate at all.
- Every day each test subject should comb his hair and count the hairs that remained on the comb.
- Every week blood samples should be taken, to measure T and DHT blood concentrations.
- The test should run 3 months.
- After 3 months, the groups should change parts, the one that ejaculated every day should stop, and vice versa. This new test should run 3 months too.
At the end of such test there will be appropriate information to really evaluate if ejaculation does or doesn't contribute to hairloss. Will the non-ejaculators show much lower T and DHT levels ?, will they have less hair on the comb ?
Personian is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
27.06.2008, 14:35
@ HairSite Admin
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Personian,
I don't disagree that there can be a shortening of lifespan linked to improvement in fertility.
But it's a big leap to think that having normal amounts of sexual activity would help cause visible amounts of hair damage within any reasonably relevant timeframe. That's what I disagree with.
If there was a link between sexual activity and hair loss, I really think we would have seen it by now. There is plenty of variation in the amounts of sex had by varying males, and the issue makes perfect sense to pay attention to in general (witness how often it gets brought up). It has been looked at in the past.
It's like hypothesizing that maybe physical fitness is relevant to slowing or speeding up hair loss - There's TONS of anecdotal talk about it, the theory makes a certain amount of sense . . . and yet it never really bears out. We never really find the data that a better lifestyle has a significant effect. We never really find out any factor that changes things enough to make a worthwhile difference. (Yes there can be some minor effect, but we can't go the gym 4 times a week and get our hair loss halted.)
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
HairSite Admin
27.06.2008, 14:15
@ HairSite Admin
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Effect of 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone and testosterone on apoptosis in human dermal papilla cells.
Skin Pharmacol Physiol. 2006;19(6):311-21
Pathogenetic mechanisms in androgenetic alopecia are not yet fully understood; however, it is commonly accepted that androgens like testosterone (T) and 5alpha-dihydrotestosterone (5alpha-DHT) inhibit hair follicle activity with early induction of the catagen.
Thus, we investigated the influence of T and 5alpha-DHT on proliferation, cell death and bcl-2/bax expression in cultured dermal papilla cells (DPC) from nonbalding scalp regions of healthy volunteers.
T and 5alpha-DHT induced apoptosis in DPC in a dose-dependent and time-related manner; in addition a necrotic effect due to T at 10(-5) M was found. Interestingly, bcl-2 protein expression was decreased in T- and 5alpha-DHT-treated cells, leading to an increase in the bax/bcl-2 ratio.
In addition, T and 5alpha-DHT induced proteolytic cleavage of caspase 8 and inhibited proliferation of DPC at 10(-5) M. High concentrations of T and 5alpha-DHT were needed to induce apoptotic effects in DPC.
These data suggest that DPC from nonbalding scalp regions do have the capacity to undergo apoptosis, but need a high androgen stimulus.
The present study provides an interesting new pathogenetic approach in androgenetic alopecia.
HairSite Admin is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
I offer research assistance for HairSite.
email: hairsite@aol.com for free consultations
=====================================
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HairSite Admin
27.06.2008, 14:02
@ debris
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Dihydrotestosterone and testosterone throughout the life span of Czech men
OBJECTIVE:
The dihydrotestosterone:testosterone ratio seems to be an important factor in the expression of androgenic activity, especially in the prostate and pilosebaceous unit. Whereas the decline of testosterone (T) in aging men is well known, controversial data can be found in literature concerning the age dependence of dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels. Data from the database of the Institute of Endocrinology served as the basis for the definition of the life span curve for the ratio dihydrotestosterone : testosterone.
METHODS:
The results of testosterone and dihydrotestosterone obtained immunoassays from 10 251 male patients were used in the construction of the curve.
RESULTS:
The data show that after a peak of DHT:T in infancy and a subsequent decrease in puberty, the ratio of both androgens remains practically without change from approx. 20 years of age till old age.
CONCLUSION:
High DHT:T ratio in infancy decreases at puberty and throughout the entire reproductive period of life this ration remains practically constant.
HairSite Admin is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
I offer research assistance for HairSite.
email: hairsite@aol.com for free consultations
=====================================
reminder:
1. Help China Earthquake Victims
2. Free hair replacement system for men & women |
debris
27.06.2008, 13:56
@ debris
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
btw found this as well which suggests that if you have abnormally low T and increase it to normal levels, your dht will increase as well.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/91/6/1995/T6
so I really do not advice anyone trying it without fin or similar dht blocker or without studying more in depth what the guys on regrowth do with the other supplements they take.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
27.06.2008, 13:41
@ debris
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Btw, I've not found the iffy study itself but I've found a guy mentioning it here:
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/FramelessPages/Articles/real_reason_men_lose_hair.htm
The University of Iowa did a study some years back where they injected a group of 18 to 20 year olds with 600 times more testosterone than they already had! (1). (It’s a wonder these guys didn’t impregnate every gal in Iowa and both the Dakotas)! During the entire duration of the fairly long study, a control group of men aged 50+ was monitored for the same things the young men were being monitored for: Total and Free Testosterone level, Estrogen level, DHT levels and other pertinent things. The control group received no hormones or medications during the study period.
During the time of having super high T levels the young men had low DHT levels! Their DHT levels remained consistent and did not elevate. AND their estrogen levels remained low as well. This came as a surprise, because the prevailing thought among MD endocrinologists (who really don’t know much about hormones) was that as T levels rose so would DHT levels and that T would convert to E and increase estrogen levels. That flatly did not happen. What also did not happen were any increases in prostate size, testicular or prostate cancer or the onset of any other malignant disease.
Anyway, it does look like a BS article so you are free to dismis it. Try searching for more ppl who experimented with increased T levels and their effect on hair growth. That may convince you.
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debris
27.06.2008, 13:28
(edited by debris, 27.06.2008, 13:38)
@ benji
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
benji: if you go to regrowth.com there are a lot of guys doing it. I tried that and it does work. as long as you stop T->DHT, a lot of T will help your hair. In fact most of the guys there do not take propecia. They just boost their T levels and use natural supplements to reduce inflamation. I dunno if some of the supplements they take reduces 5AR. I never stopped taking fin and do not plan to.
And because I've been on similar T boosting regimen for several months already I can confirm they are true. It does work.
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benji
27.06.2008, 13:24
@ debris
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
» It may make sense to you, but high Testosterone levels are actually good
» for hair. Thats already experimentally proven fact. NO ITS NOT PROVEN OR EVEN ALLEGED. IN EX VIVO EXPERIEMTS, TESTOEREONE AS WELL AS DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE CAN MAKE MPB FOLLICLES SLOW GROWTH. IN FACT, JUST HIGH AMOUNTS OF TESTOSTERONE IN EXPERIMENTS CAN MAKE EVEN OCCIPTAL SCALP HAIRS RESPOND NEGATIVELY. »
» So I'd say as long as you take propecia or similar DHT blocker, you want T
» as high as possible so the androgen receptors will get satisfied, and body
» will stop producing DHT. WHERE ON EARTH DID YOU HEAR THAT?
»
» a lot of T is good. its the 5-alpha reductase that trigger conversion of T
» into DHT. More T you have, less 5-alpha will be produced because your body
» will assume there is enough androgens out there (T) and no super androgens
» are necessary (DHT). WHERE IN THE HELL DID YOU HEAR THIS NUTCASE IDEA?????
» » If I'd be worried about something then it would be prolactin. Too much of
» it is proven to shrink hair follicles.
»
» Now can I get my Msc from biology as well please? YOU REALLY OUGHT NOT POST YOUR DRIVE-BY THOUGHTS ON ENDROCRINOLOGY HERE, THEY ARE MISLEADING
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Personian
27.06.2008, 13:18
(edited by Personian, 27.06.2008, 13:30)
@ cal
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
» The idea that sexual activity would do damage to a healthy young man is
» completely backwards to evolution as we know it.
This is not necessarily true.
In the field of aging (which is my field), we can see a contrast between body-maintanance, and fertility.
We have many examples from eukaryotic animals, that when we enhance their body-maintanace (which extends their lifespan) we see a reduction in fertility, and when we hurt their fertility (like take out the gonads), we see an increase in body-maintanace (and an increased lifespan).
It seems that one thing comes at the expense of the other.
There is an evolutionary theory that tries to explain the reason for this, and if anyone is interested, I will describe it.
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Personian
27.06.2008, 12:58
@ debris
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
» BTW  Do you know what is the difference between receptor degradation and
» binding of something onto the receptor?
»
» I always wanted to know. but I'm not able to find any description. Is it
» perhaps both the same?
"Receptor degradation" means destruction of the receptor.
When something binds to a receptor, it usually doesn't lead to degradation of the receptor. If the molecule that atteched to the receptor is an activating ligand (like testosterone to the androgen receptor), then the receptor will activate some pathway. If on the other hand it's an inhibitory ligand, then the receptor will not be able to bind to an activator ligand, and in some cases, might even undergo degradation.
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cal
27.06.2008, 12:46
@ debris
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Ejaculation is ejaculation, no matter what the cause. If masturbation is bad for hair then all sexual activity is bad for hair.
The idea that sexual activity would do damage to a healthy young man is completely backwards to evolution as we know it. If ejaculation has any effect on hair then I believe it would be extrememly small.
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debris
27.06.2008, 12:22
@ Personian
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
BTW Do you know what is the difference between receptor degradation and binding of something onto the receptor?
I always wanted to know. but I'm not able to find any description. Is it perhaps both the same?
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debris
27.06.2008, 12:13
@ Personian
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
»
» Anyway, if you say that high levels of testosterone were found to counter
» hairloss, then that's the important thing. You have a link for such paper,
» btw ?
»
I'm not sure about a paper. What I'm talking here about is experience of lot of hair loss board users. If you search various forums you will find that people are even taking maca root and ZMA to intentionally increase their T levels. I'm doing the same, and my hair is twice as thick as before when I started for this reason I never even bothered to search for a paper. I know it works because I first read it from other hairloss sufferers, tried it, and I'm a living proof that they were right. It may be possible there is a paper though. I dunno.
All in all I still think that you may be right, if you dont block 5AR, I'm not sure if increased T increases DHT as well. What I'm sure though is that if you do block 5AR, and then even boost your T, your hair will get much better then with just blocking 5AR.
I also remember there was some iffy study, that was mentioning an experiment when they boosted young guys with T over the roof. They were horny, and their hair was superb. I don't remember if DHT levels were mentioned there.
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Tricky95
27.06.2008, 11:55
@ Personian
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Oh god... I'm screwed then. I try to crack one off at least twice a day.. 
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Personian
27.06.2008, 11:49
@ debris
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
What you say regarding the connection between higher levels of testosterone which lead to lower levels of DHT, is logical if you assume a negative feedback loop of testosterone on 5-alpha-reductase. But, theoretically I wouldn't be surprised to find a positive feedback loop of testosterone on 5-alpha-reductase. We see it a lot in molecular biology, that once a certain signaling pathway is activated, it enhances itself by positive feedback.
Anyway, if you say that high levels of testosterone were found to counter hairloss, then that's the important thing. You have a link for such paper, btw ?
The thing that still worries me, is that after ejaculation, blood DHT levels were found to go higher as well.
» Now can I get my Msc from biology as well please?
Ha !, it just goes to show you how broad the field of biology is. My specific field of study is very different than dermatology/endocrinology, so I'll not be surprised if many of you guys know a lot more than me about the biology of hairloss.
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debris
27.06.2008, 10:37
(edited by debris, 27.06.2008, 10:44)
@ Personian
|
Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
It may make sense to you, but high Testosterone levels are actually good for hair. Thats already experimentally proven fact.
So I'd say as long as you take propecia or similar DHT blocker, you want T as high as possible so the androgen receptors will get satisfied, and body will stop producing DHT.
a lot of T is good. its the 5-alpha reductase that trigger conversion of T into DHT. More T you have, less 5-alpha will be produced because your body will assume there is enough androgens out there (T) and no super androgens are necessary (DHT).
If I'd be worried about something then it would be prolactin. Too much of it is proven to shrink hair follicles.
Now can I get my Msc from biology as well please?
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Sceptic
27.06.2008, 10:15
@ Personian
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Connection between sperm-ejaculation and hairloss |
Sorry but : WALOC
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