benji
25.07.2008, 19:50 |
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... (Hair Multiplication & Research) |
Guys,
Ive ordered Arava TWICE and Getfitinib once. Nothing has made it to my mailbox yet.
I have a feeling the post-master in my part of the world must be diligent about intercepting generic drugs from wherever they come on behalf of the FDA or whatnot. I NEVER have had problems ordering anything online and actually recieving them before. If I order Prox-N or Folligen for instance, it usually gets here in about three days. I got fluridil in less than seven days. Ive gotten cedarwood and lavender oil in literally two business days before.
Thats the only guess I have. Its been about two weeks on the last two orders or thereabouts. Its been well over a month since my first attempt to score Arava from 'mypills.'
I guess Im kinda screwed on getting to try it at home. I wish you guys luck though. Im out alot of money in this......Ive spent about seven hundred bucks and have nothing to show for it. Ive spoken with reps who have sworn (I believe them) that they sent the stuff. One site offered to send another order free of charge, but I dont think it would matter. I think the postmaster is on the look out for foreign generics. Its the only reason I can think of. Mail has never been a problem for me before.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
abcxyz
25.07.2008, 21:36
@ benji
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
You will get a note from your local post office if your mail has been intercepted.
abcxyz is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
Rogaine foam + Propecia + Nizoral 1% + Lysine
No longer use topical Dutas as of Nov 2007. |
Mr.Fantastic
25.07.2008, 22:33
@ benji
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» Guys,
»
» Ive ordered Arava TWICE and Getfitinib once. Nothing has made it to my
» mailbox yet.
»
»
» I have a feeling the post-master in my part of the world must be diligent
» about intercepting generic drugs from wherever they come on behalf of the
» FDA or whatnot. I NEVER have had problems ordering anything online and
» actually recieving them before. If I order Prox-N or Folligen for instance,
» it usually gets here in about three days. I got fluridil in less than seven
» days. Ive gotten cedarwood and lavender oil in literally two business days
» before.
»
»
» Thats the only guess I have. Its been about two weeks on the last two
» orders or thereabouts. Its been well over a month since my first attempt to
» score Arava from 'mypills.'
»
»
» I guess Im kinda screwed on getting to try it at home. I wish you guys
» luck though. Im out alot of money in this......Ive spent about seven
» hundred bucks and have nothing to show for it. Ive spoken with reps who
» have sworn (I believe them) that they sent the stuff. One site offered to
» send another order free of charge, but I dont think it would matter. I
» think the postmaster is on the look out for foreign generics. Its the only
» reason I can think of. Mail has never been a problem for me before.
Benji, which part of the world do u live?
Mr.Fantastic is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Sasha
26.07.2008, 14:39
@ benji
|
Where do you live Benji? |
That seems remarkable to me. In most countries a confiscated package will result in at least a notice being sent to the receiver.
» Guys,
»
» Ive ordered Arava TWICE and Getfitinib once. Nothing has made it to my
» mailbox yet.
»
»
» I have a feeling the post-master in my part of the world must be diligent
» about intercepting generic drugs from wherever they come on behalf of the
» FDA or whatnot. I NEVER have had problems ordering anything online and
» actually recieving them before. If I order Prox-N or Folligen for instance,
» it usually gets here in about three days. I got fluridil in less than seven
» days. Ive gotten cedarwood and lavender oil in literally two business days
» before.
»
»
» Thats the only guess I have. Its been about two weeks on the last two
» orders or thereabouts. Its been well over a month since my first attempt to
» score Arava from 'mypills.'
»
»
» I guess Im kinda screwed on getting to try it at home. I wish you guys
» luck though. Im out alot of money in this......Ive spent about seven
» hundred bucks and have nothing to show for it. Ive spoken with reps who
» have sworn (I believe them) that they sent the stuff. One site offered to
» send another order free of charge, but I dont think it would matter. I
» think the postmaster is on the look out for foreign generics. Its the only
» reason I can think of. Mail has never been a problem for me before.
Sasha is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
26.07.2008, 20:26
@ Sasha
|
Where do you live Benji? |
I live in Tennessee....................American Middle South.
Ive read that foreign generics are on a cutoms "watch list". Im pretty sure these sites sent this stuff------but I think customs has intercepted them.
When you think about it, it makes sense. The four hundred bucks I spent on getfitinib isn't nearly the 2400 dollar asking price for the drug. Hell, its just been released fairly recently. The pharma company must be livid to find out some company with chemist have synthesized generics from their formulas.
Even so.................I suppose after another week I'll know.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
fckhrls
27.07.2008, 00:29
@ benji
|
Where do you live Benji? |
» I live in Tennessee....................American Middle South.
»
»
»
» Ive read that foreign generics are on a cutoms "watch list". Im pretty
» sure these sites sent this stuff------but I think customs has intercepted
» them.
»
»
» When you think about it, it makes sense. The four hundred bucks I spent on
» getfitinib isn't nearly the 2400 dollar asking price for the drug. Hell,
» its just been released fairly recently. The pharma company must be livid to
» find out some company with chemist have synthesized generics from their
» formulas.
»
»
» Even so.................I suppose after another week I'll know.
if you're in the States and your package was intercepted, you would have received a note from the USPS/Customs. Its standard operating procedure.
fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
27.07.2008, 09:57
@ benji
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
I hope you get it. It's a fair amount of money to throw away. More importantly, losing the chance to see if we can get a home-working protocol on the go.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
27.07.2008, 15:09
@ benji
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
Benji: I'd say that if they seized it they would at least inform you.
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
27.07.2008, 18:53
@ debris
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
I am in the central USA only a couple hundred miles from Tennessee, and I got my Arava pills from "mypills" on the first round. Came in a brown cardboard envelope about 3 weeks after the order was placed.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
27.07.2008, 21:46
@ cal
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» I am in the central USA only a couple hundred miles from Tennessee, and I
» got my Arava pills from "mypills" on the first round. Came in a brown
» cardboard envelope about 3 weeks after the order was placed.
Thanks Cal, I'll give it about seven or eight more days I suppose. Its been about two weeks since the last 2 orders.
Ive recieved nothing from the post office about "intercepted" mail, etc. This is three different orders placed with different companies on different days.....
One more thing for Cal.........................I AM considering doing a "test-spot" with lidocaine applied mere hours after a tca peel. Im very interested to see what happens. The verbiage in the patent is contradictory about "during" and after re-epilithialization. In one embodiment, they even mention using the compounds before or immediately after wounding, citing "timed-release" compounds. I wonder.......................This patent is written in very defensive language. Hair germs were detected in human skin at day 7 post-wounding. If it took three days for re-epilithialization, then that meant in four days time the epidermal cells organized themselves into not only differentiated hair cells, but hair germs. Ive considered the possibility all the day 3-whatever stuff is a red-herring and the egf antagonist needs to be used EARLY in the procedure to keep skin FROM healing at all so its FORCED to make hair follicles.............I wonder.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
27.07.2008, 22:29
@ benji
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
I don't know. I hope the whole wait isn't a red herring because I'm already into my try at this. I'd have wasted $110 and one round of heavy dermabrasion.
But they paid so much attention to the wait period on so many of those patents . . . It seems like there would have to be something in terms of a waiting period. Or else they've purposely patented a ton of things that don't work whatsoever.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
27.07.2008, 22:39
@ cal
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
I don't know what to think about the waiting period in regards to the Gentifib patient either.
On the one hand, he probably regrew that hair without obeying any waiting period at all. On the other hand, he's one out of thousands on the drug and most of them didn't get anything regrowing.
If everyone who was on any EFG-R inhibition drug during the time of a skin injury gets hair growth, then I would have expected us to know about this property of the drugs a long time ago. They put people on Arava for years at a stretch, and the drug's already been around about a decade.
So is the Gentifib patient a freak case for growing something without the waiting period, or is he representative of anyone who gets a sunburn on an EGF-R drug? Hard to know.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TAGOHL
27.07.2008, 23:45
@ cal
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
Quick post...
» On the one hand, he probably regrew that hair without obeying any waiting
» period at all. On the other hand, he's one out of thousands on the drug
» and most of them didn't get anything regrowing.
The reason why hair growth might be rare with these drugs is because the timing may have to be just right to get the effect. Like before the drug was started you just happened to get a sunburn or a scrape or an abrasion that was reepthelialized to just the right amount before the drug was initiated. Maybe, for example, you just happened to get a sunburn exactly 4 days before starting the drug.
Who knows, though. I am still not really sure what effect, in any, timing has on Follica's procedure.
Good luck with your experiment, Cal.
Benji:
Sorry about your troubles getting the meds. Like others have mentioned, a seizure will eventually be followed by a notice in the mail. Once it's seized, though, you are in a tough spot as far as ever getting your order -- I speak from experience on this, as I've had 2 med packages confiscated by Customs over the years (one was for finasteride, the other Accutane). I was able to get one order released (the Accutane) but it took A LOT of effort to get it released. The other order was never given to me.
Also, the shipments may have been lost in the mail (although 2 'losses' in a row seems unlikely). This just happened to me about a month and a half ago with a dutasteride order. I waited over 3 weeks for it to come, and then finally emailed the pharmacy, who said it must have been lost and sent a replacement package...but when I got the replacement package, it wasn't what I ordered. So I mailed them back, and they sent a third package which finally had the dutasteride. So stuff can get lost, unfortunately.
TAGOHL is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
27.07.2008, 23:48
@ cal
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» I don't know what to think about the waiting period in regards to the
» Gentifib patient either.
»
» On the one hand, he probably regrew that hair without obeying any waiting
» period at all. On the other hand, he's one out of thousands on the drug
» and most of them didn't get anything regrowing.
»
»
» If everyone who was on any EFG-R inhibition drug during the time of a skin
» injury gets hair growth, then I would have expected us to know about this
» property of the drugs a long time ago. They put people on Arava for years
» at a stretch, and the drug's already been around about a decade.
»
»
» So is the Gentifib patient a freak case for growing something without the
» waiting period, or is he representative of anyone who gets a sunburn on an
» EGF-R drug? Hard to know.
I think they tell you to avoid exvessive sunlight with Arava dont they? I know they do with getfitinib. The thing about the two freak hypertrichotic cases is this.......................Did both those people get too much sun on their head and nose, and then get on the EGF-antagonist three or four days later? Or were they on the drug, and happen to (against the instructions) get too much sun one day and have a burn which made the skin make hair follicles in the burnt area as a response?
The nose photo is particularily intriguing becuase some of the hair growth was "under" the nose..................indicative of someone "laying out" in the sun. Someone on the forum suggested an itchy nose or frequent nose blowing and the tissues might have aggravated the skin there.
I just keep coming back to the patent where it continually says "during a state of re-epilithialization" a few times vs. after reepilithialization has taken place and openly wonder. They mention a topical that could be applied PRE-wounding or even at the same time due to "time release". I have to wonder about a "time-relased" topical preparation on skin that has been deliberately wounded (had the top layer removed). Seems kinda far-fetched. Are they merely being protective in the patent, or was the time verbiage an attempt to be misleading in the first place? Lidocaine, Ive been checking up on that, is a pretty well known egf-antagonist and pubmed has articles about its ability to inhibit egf through tyrosine kinease. It makes me wonder if the patent is deliberately misleading and they know precisely the path they intend to follow?
Post re-epilithialization in the human skin experiments would have been day four...............and hair germs were detected on day 7. Can stem cells build hair THAT fast, or were they forming in response to the wound from day one? It makes me wonder.........................I have no idea.
There would be a way to find out however.............abrade a small area while using egf-antagonist and apply for ten days.
I just might try that with lidocaine. I know, I know......Im just nosy, always have been . 
With some HT docs fooling around with ACELL now................maybe all this is superfulous. ACELL in FUE-holes would be a god-send in that WE KNOW the hair that grew out of them (if it worked) would be donor-quality hair..
Im excited about both methodologies. The ACELL hair growth in animals grew despite the animals IMMUNE systems----which is more exciting still.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
28.07.2008, 05:01
@ benji
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
Even if Acell works as well as we dream it might, 15-20,000 FUE grafts would cost the price of a new Corvette. And it would take several years of constantly re-shaving & re-growing just to get it done.
Personally I'm gonna keep 100% faith in the Folica deal to work.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
dave21
28.07.2008, 06:28
@ cal
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» Even if Acell works as well as we dream it might, 15-20,000 FUE grafts
» would cost the price of a new Corvette. And it would take several years of
» constantly re-shaving & re-growing just to get it done.
»
»
» Personally I'm gonna keep 100% faith in the Folica deal to work.
My thoughts exactly....
dave21 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
28.07.2008, 07:09
@ dave21
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» » Even if Acell works as well as we dream it might, 15-20,000 FUE grafts
» » would cost the price of a new Corvette. And it would take several years
» of
» » constantly re-shaving & re-growing just to get it done.
» »
» »
» » Personally I'm gonna keep 100% faith in the Folica deal to work.
»
» My thoughts exactly....
No doubt. Unlimited DONOR supply is a nice thought, but it's only good for the obscenely rich, or extremely desperate (those damaged from previous surgeries). I'm neither.
Unlimited donor supply will only benefit those in the higher norwood scale, BUT consider a NW7's plight. If FUE costs from $6-$8/ graft, and a NW7 requires 14,000 of them (2000 grafts per norwood level) than that person is looking at $84,000 to $112,000. That's utterly ridiculous.
Heck, it's too expensive for most NW3s to fix their hairlines at current FUE prices let alone guys further down the norwood scale. We need a cheaper solution.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the world famous "5 year" timeline |
Sceptic
28.07.2008, 07:16
@ rev
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» Heck, it's too expensive for most NW3s to fix their hairlines at current
» FUE prices let alone guys further down the norwood scale. We need a cheaper
» solution.
likely when follicles can be cloned
Sceptic is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
28.07.2008, 07:44
@ Sceptic
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» » Heck, it's too expensive for most NW3s to fix their hairlines at current
» » FUE prices let alone guys further down the norwood scale. We need a
» cheaper
» » solution.
»
» likely when follicles can be cloned
Not necessarily. You'll notice that the biggest news these days isn't as much about cloning as it is about tricking the body to self-repair.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the world famous "5 year" timeline |
Sceptic
28.07.2008, 07:53
@ rev
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» » » Heck, it's too expensive for most NW3s to fix their hairlines at
» current
» » » FUE prices let alone guys further down the norwood scale. We need a
» » cheaper
» » » solution.
» »
» » likely when follicles can be cloned
» Not necessarily. You'll notice that the biggest news these days isn't as
» much about cloning as it is about tricking the body to self-repair.
maybe, but I don't always follow the fashion, anyway think for a minute and realize both things are still far away
Sceptic is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
28.07.2008, 08:08
@ Sceptic
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
» maybe, but I don't always follow the fashion, anyway think for a minute
» and realize both things are still far away
I'm thinking you're a real skeptic, and that's fine with me.
Personally, I'm more than happy to wait five years for something LEGITIMATE
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the world famous "5 year" timeline |
cal
29.07.2008, 02:11
@ rev
|
For Cal and TAGOHL on my experiment....... |
I'm not saying this is a perfect (or even very good) solution. I'm just pointing out a potentially relevant fact here -
We all know that half the problem with FUE work is the painstaking nature of the grafting in order to get the survival rate high.
But if the donor supply is truly not limited, then we could let standards of FUE extraction slip a lot more (read: cheaper clinics popping up) with less negative consequences for it. You might pay for more than you got, but between choosing 3-4 hair grafts and a lot of rounds of the work, it would probably come out acceptable looking and somewhat cheaper than good FUE work costs right now.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
29.07.2008, 03:45
@ cal
|
Nothing works the way it should........ |
» I'm not saying this is a perfect (or even very good) solution. I'm just
» pointing out a potentially relevant fact here -
»
»
»
» We all know that half the problem with FUE work is the painstaking nature
» of the grafting in order to get the survival rate high.
»
» But if the donor supply is truly not limited, then we could let standards
» of FUE extraction slip a lot more (read: cheaper clinics popping up) with
» less negative consequences for it. You might pay for more than you got,
» but between choosing 3-4 hair grafts and a lot of rounds of the work, it
» would probably come out acceptable looking and somewhat cheaper than good
» FUE work costs right now.
I usually agree with you cal, BUT increased donor supply won't eliminate the tedious part of harvesting/ implanting grafts, so costs wouldn't drop all that much. Moreso, I don't want some barely qualified techs from a fly-by-night clinic mucking about my head... especially if they think they have a free pass to ignore the consequences of harvesting the donor area.
Your concept's valid... in an ideal industry, but this is the hair biz we're talking about.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the world famous "5 year" timeline |
Baccy
29.07.2008, 04:12
@ rev
|
Nothing works the way it should........ |
I think that the only thing that will delay Follica from getting to commercial market is red tape and unscrupulous backhanders from other interested parties in order to 'encourage' delay.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
rev
your nightmares,
29.07.2008, 05:07
(edited by rev, 29.07.2008, 05:25)
@ Baccy
|
Nothing works the way it should........ |
» I think that the only thing that will delay Follica from getting to
» commercial market is red tape and unscrupulous backhanders from other
» interested parties in order to 'encourage' delay.
Well if you're a conspiracy theorist: there aren't enough MAJOR drug competitors to lobby against Follica (propecia will probably keep selling to Follica clients who are concerned about DHT resistance), competing biotechs (Aderans, and InterCytex) seem more preoccupied with the media circuit than the science, and HT doctors seldom get together to get anything done... one trip to the Hair Transplant forum will show you how some of them bicker amongst each other.
The most obvious thing holding Follica back is the protocols/science (you can attest to that through your personal experiments Baccy). Sure, red tape's a major b*tch, but at least the heads at PureTech have real world experience marketing life sciences (if anyone knows how to get around the red tape - they do).
So let's just hope Follica (or some other regenerative process) works. There's only a small handful of honest HT doctors in this business (they'll find alternate work easily)... the rest of them deserve to be bankrupted for abusing their Hippocratic Oath.
.
rev is located in YOUR NIGHTMARES and he is available to meet: NO ---
InterCytex –noun
a place where good ideas go to die.
Follica –noun
a clandestine organization that puts the C.I.A to shame.
Ken Washenik, MD, PhD –noun
inventor of the world famous "5 year" timeline |
cal
29.07.2008, 10:10
@ rev
|
Nothing works the way it should........ |
Rev -
About the cheaper FUE thoughts, I agree that it's not a great solution to anything, and that it probably wouldn't cheapen the procedure a whole lot. But I just suspect that this would end up happening one way or another.
If FUE costs could even just be lowered to something nearer the price of good strip work, even that would make a major impact on the situation. And right now FUE work hasn't really even seen major outsourcing away from North America yet, and that's one thing capable of cheapening ANYTHING being done by human hands.
I'm just commenting on what will probably happen, regardless of my opinion about it. It's not what I want either. I just want Folica to work so we can give all our grandkids back their inheritances.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
29.07.2008, 18:41
@ rev
|
Nothing works the way it should........ |
» The most obvious thing holding Follica back is the protocols/science (you
» can attest to that through your personal experiments Baccy).»
»
» .
We can't really compare the experiments I've been doing in my bathroom with the University's experiments in a lab. I'm flattered by your remarks though. I'm afraid the highest qualification I possess is a HNC in Engineering.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
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