cal
22.08.2008, 01:05
(edited by cal, 22.08.2008, 01:14) |
another quick update on my Folica experimenting (Hair Multiplication & Research) |
Background:
I did some hair waxing on the spots, then some pretty deep scalp dermabrasion 3 days later, then EGF-R inhibition with oral Leflunomide pills starting 3-4 days after that, and the EGF-R inhibition was continued for about 12 days.
I did basically a dupe of Folica's absolute simplest patent, with only the most active ingredient being used, and no topicals whatsoever during the two weeks.
I've reached the 4-week mark from the original wounding date.
A few smaller spots were also wounded during the EGF-R inhibition, and they're only at about week #3 right now.
Honestly I'm a little disappointed right now. I've had regrowth, but there was more happening during the first two weeks than the 3rd & 4th week. The first two weeks out of the gate were a bit more unexpectedly rewarding than lately.
I'm not putting up pics yet because I'll just get crap over them if I did. The results are hardly visible at all. Nothing that Folica could ever dream of selling as a "cure for hair loss" right now. (I'm not saying this out of genuine disappointment yet, so much as just trying to keep us all on the same page about what I'm describing.)
-- I can say without a doubt now that the most progress has come from the deepest-wounded areas. These are the areas where I went so deep it worried me at first. I didn't actually hit blood & start scarring, but I got damn close to it. The skin turned deep red in the first couple of days after wounding. (Not just very pinkish compared to the rest of my skin, I'm talking literally brick-colored crimson red.)
-- The results so far could still be just from the dermabrasion alone. I went deep, the early regrowth came up very quickly afterwards, and that's mainly were the major results are. I wouldn't be shocked if this is just from that process, and anything related to the EGF-R inhibition is still yet to come later.
-- Having said that, just the dermabrasion seems to really regrow a little something. Not "cosmetically significant" or anything, but repeating it a bunch of times on the same area might gradually build up something more visible over a couple years. It's no worse than the cost, effort, grow-out, and risk of our current HT options.
(We're all ready to line up for thousands of dollars worth of injections from ICX as soon as they prove ANYTHING is being regrown from it, right? We say that we're ready to pay to repeat the procedure round-after-round, until it starts to look decent . . . IMO it sounds a lot cheaper & easier to just start spending only hundreds of dollars doing round-after-round of regular dermabrasion right now.)
-- I inhibited the EGF-R with Leflunomide, and this stuff doesn't leave the body very quickly. Even taking some charcoal to kick it out, I'll bet I ended up having the Leflunomide in my system another week after I discontinued taking the pills. I don't know; this may push back my EGFR-caused results a little longer than the expected day #45 or whatever. It's just the nature of the beast with oral Arava pills. (But continued EGF-R inhibition didn't stop the cancer patient's regrowth from sprouting so I'm not too worried about it overall.)
That's the news.
I'll probably post up again at about 45-50 days. Hopefully there will be some more progress by then.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
biston
22.08.2008, 05:10
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
edit, you've answered my question in your original post lol  sorry
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
goata007
22.08.2008, 11:21
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
cal, how many new terminal hairs have grown from the experiment? Also, did you pluck/wax vellus hair before experiment?
goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein |
Amilcar
22.08.2008, 11:35
@ goata007
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
I'd add one more question . Did you take any WNT antagonist ?
Amilcar is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
22.08.2008, 11:49
(edited by cal, 22.08.2008, 12:02)
@ Amilcar
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
As for the # of terminal hairs, I don't know. I'm not growing a few lone free-standing thick terminal hairs, so much as a small field of tiny barely-terminal wispy hairs. (Which are probably not done thickening yet.)
And the area that I dermabraded was relatively large overall. Some of it bald skin, some of it still hairy, some of it abraded deeply and other areas thinly, etc. Including the lightest-done areas, it probably adds up to several square inches in total. So I'm evaluating all this stuff in pretty broad strokes. (Getting a few non-representative stray hairs somewhere isn't gonna confuse my expectations this way.)
I've done absolutely nothing chemically other than the oral EGF-R inhibition and some oral Finasteride. Nothing directly on the WNT issue, no.
As for the waxing, I just did a basic round of waxing strips on the area. Probably didn't get more than just the larger-diameter hairs. Probably left some vellus hairs. But I didn't want the topical hair-remover to potentially do anything to the results, even 3 days beforehand. (Just wanted NO extra variables whatsoever, even at the expense of growth.)
I think I'm gonna wait until at least the 2-month mark before trying to decide whether or not I think the EGF-R experiment made a difference in the results.
The next thing I'm gonna try will probably be chemical hair remover first, then wounding DURING the EGF-R inhibition rather than before it, and then probably some topical Lithium Chloride on the area afterwards.
(I'm not necessarily saying I think my first experiment has been "wrong" and this second idea will be "right." I'm just leaning towards this other plan next time as a general continuation of the experimenting.)
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
22.08.2008, 11:59
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
»
»
»
»
»
»
»
» The next thing I'm gonna try will probably be chemical hair remover first,
» then wounding DURING the EGF-R inhibition rather than before it, and
» then probably some topical Lithium Chloride on the area afterwards.
I think the EGF-R inhibition 'during' may be a good idea. Every paper that I read on the mechanism of wound healing mentions that EGF has a profound effect on epithelization. So it doesn't really make sense for us to wait until epithelzation is complete before inhibiting the EGF. In my upcoming session, starting Monday 1st Sept, I'm going to apply the tannic acid EGF inhibitor directly onto the wound. Tannic acid used to be used in burn treatments. The concentration has to be low as high levels can cause hepatic toxicity.
I would have had the tannic acid by now only UPS had the wrong address so it had already started on it's merry journey back to Deutschland.
Good Luck Cal.
»
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
HanginInThere
Hair loss University,
22.08.2008, 12:03
@ cal
|
sorry to say but |
If you put those results up and nobody knew what you used, they would not be any better and in fact much worse than a lot of standard treatments that are proven to work ie minox prop etc
hell when i first started thinning, when my dht was not really that built up yet, I used to regularly get great regrowth with ONLY VITAMINS, since some of the B vitamins are vaso dilators, such as NIACIN, which does the same thing as MInox although to a smaller degree
i will say though, that you have not waited long enough to notice significant results and that would be with any treatment, one month is simply not long enough
HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hangin Regimen...........
Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day
DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg |
Mr.Fantastic
22.08.2008, 12:30
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
-- I inhibited the EGF-R with Leflunomide, and this stuff doesn't leave the body very quickly. Even taking some charcoal to kick it out, I'll bet I ended up having the Leflunomide in my system another week after I discontinued taking the pills. I don't know; this may push back my EGFR-caused results a little longer than the expected day #45 or whatever. It's just the nature of the beast with oral Arava pills. (But continued EGF-R inhibition didn't stop the cancer patient's regrowth from sprouting so I'm not too worried about it overall.)
Did anbody try doing something similiar but with the exception of taking the egf-r topically?
Mr.Fantastic is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Jtelecom
22.08.2008, 13:20
@ Mr.Fantastic
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
Cal:
How did you know that the drug had not left your system in a week? Side effects?
Jtelecom is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
Jtelecom
5 Strip Surgeries (4 Bosley, 1 AlviArmani)
3 FUE Surgeries (2 Undisclosed, 1 AlviArmani)
(Latest FUE Surgery: June 6, 2008 - AlviArmani Los Angeles) |
cal
22.08.2008, 14:04
@ Jtelecom
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
quote -
"If you put those results up and nobody knew what you used, they would not be any better and in fact much worse than a lot of standard treatments that are proven to work ie minox prop etc
"
And this is precisely what I've being freely saying, and why I haven't put pics up so far.
I'm not trying to convert anyone else to this idea. I'm not even trying for ideal growth yet. I'm just doing an experiment to see if there's any science behind Folica's core idea.
Jtelecom -
That's just the normal course of action with Leflunomide. And I had some slight stomach/bowel irritation while I was on it to convince me as well.
The research warns that if you're on this stuff steadily for a while it actually might take several months for it to clear out on its own.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Itzan
25.08.2008, 18:04
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
cal,
IMHO, it would be a good idea to consider taking the leflunomide PO at least starting 4 days before the wound/peel/wax events and stop taking it the day of the highest/strongest trauma event, thus having the full effect and not taking the drug extra days. Maybe a simple topical fluid fusion protein (ie etanercept?? why not?) --or even triamcinolone acetonide??-- , just in case locally expressed de novo pyrimidine synth upregulation can be attacked that way, and just in case that would mater and test if such does show an improvement in the results.
Just a thought.
Peace 
drcb
Itzan is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cricket
25.08.2008, 22:07
@ Itzan
|
that's a good point... |
» cal,
» IMHO, it would be a good idea to consider taking the leflunomide PO at
» least starting 4 days before the wound/peel/wax events and stop taking it
» the day of the highest/strongest trauma event, thus having the full effect
» and not taking the drug extra days.
Maybe a simple topical fluid fusion
» protein (ie etanercept?? why not?) --or even triamcinolone acetonide??-- ,
» just in case locally expressed de novo pyrimidine synth upregulation can be
» attacked that way, and just in case that would mater and test if such does
» show an improvement in the results.
» Just a thought.
» Peace
» drcb
on the way of benji's post in the other thread .
imho immune system has to be dropped in some manner and is reasonable be on egf inibitor before wounding (from photo of regrowth cases ).
Cal (and every other who is trying ) your work is great .
I'm very interested in this kind of experiment but i'm in Europe and it's not quite simple obtain the drugs (we're in big trouble already with minox foam ,you could image with arava-like)
.. we're also trying to involve a dermatologist to make same attempts ( if we reach the point of course i'll post ... )
Please, if you have in mind to repeat, consider the options above.
cricket is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
26.08.2008, 15:21
@ cricket
|
that's a good point... |
Thanks.
The next things I have in mind are a wound-during-EGFR-inhibition experiment, and then after that I'll start trying to get ahold of an immunosuppressant of some sort to throw into the mix.
If Folica works, I'm committed to trying to nail it down as soon as I possibly can. I don't care if it costs me several thousand dollars in failed attempts.
I'm not financially well-off or anything. But compared to taking Finasteride for decades and getting HTs, this does not feel like a bad risk and investment at all. I only have to get one attempt to work.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Steve78
28.08.2008, 23:36
@ cal
|
take some antibiotics to fight infection |
» Thanks.
»
»
» The next things I have in mind are a wound-during-EGFR-inhibition
» experiment, and then after that I'll start trying to get ahold of an
» immunosuppressant of some sort to throw into the mix.
»
»
»
» If Folica works, I'm committed to trying to nail it down as soon as I
» possibly can. I don't care if it costs me several thousand dollars in
» failed attempts.
»
» I'm not financially well-off or anything. But compared to taking
» Finasteride for decades and getting HTs, this does not feel like a bad risk
» and investment at all. I only have to get one attempt to work.
Cal, maybe it will be a good idea to take some antibiotics while doing your experiment, I think what you are doing is fairly safe except that if the wound doesn't heal properly, you may risk getting infection.
Good luck
Steve78 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
01.09.2008, 08:54
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
»Reading the patent again it claims that depilation before wounding resulted in an 11 fold increase in hair follicles over non-depilation! This is VERY interesting! Still waiting for that incompetent company to sort my tannic acid order out but I'm eager to start my next experiment. I'll wax the hairs that have sprouted so far (both terminal and vellus) wait 3 days then wound. I shall apply tannic acid after depilation to get the EGF inhibition under way BEFORE the wounding.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
biston
01.09.2008, 10:53
@ Baccy
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
baccy, pics of your new hair ?
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
debris
01.09.2008, 11:30
@ Baccy
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» »Reading the patent again it claims that depilation before wounding
» resulted in an 11 fold increase in hair follicles over non-depilation! This
» is VERY interesting! Still waiting for that incompetent company to sort my
» tannic acid order out but I'm eager to start my next experiment. I'll wax
» the hairs that have sprouted so far (both terminal and vellus) wait 3 days
» then wound. I shall apply tannic acid after depilation to get the EGF
» inhibition under way BEFORE the wounding.
another interesting thing is that one guy oh hlh reports hair growth in a scar tissue when retin-A was being applied
debris has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
debris is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
01.09.2008, 11:40
@ biston
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» baccy, pics of your new hair ?
Like I've said, if can see my buddy who's got a cam, I'll take some pics but because there's nothing cosmetically viable yet, I shave it clean when I go out without a hat. I've just shaved off a week's growth (about 3mm) but I'll have to grow it to that length again to depilate. If I can, I'll post pics up but I'll invariably get a load of bollocks from the more unsavoury denizens of the forum.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
biston
01.09.2008, 13:22
@ Baccy
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» » baccy, pics of your new hair ?
»
» Like I've said, if can see my buddy who's got a cam, I'll take some pics
» but because there's nothing cosmetically viable yet, I shave it clean when
» I go out without a hat. I've just shaved off a week's growth (about 3mm)
» but I'll have to grow it to that length again to depilate. If I can, I'll
» post pics up but I'll invariably get a load of bollocks from the more
» unsavoury denizens of the forum.
the most important thing is that something has grown, even if is not cosmetically acceptable, cause this is what you done in your home, researchers will certainly do it better, but the point is: works or not? if something has grown up on your head, it means that follica CAN work !
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Striver
01.09.2008, 14:22
@ biston
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» » » baccy, pics of your new hair ?
» »
» » Like I've said, if can see my buddy who's got a cam, I'll take some
» pics
» » but because there's nothing cosmetically viable yet, I shave it clean
» when
» » I go out without a hat. I've just shaved off a week's growth (about
» 3mm)
» » but I'll have to grow it to that length again to depilate. If I can,
» I'll
» » post pics up but I'll invariably get a load of bollocks from the more
» » unsavoury denizens of the forum.
»
» the most important thing is that something has grown, even if is not
» cosmetically acceptable, cause this is what you done in your home,
» researchers will certainly do it better, but the point is: works or not? if
» something has grown up on your head, it means that follica CAN work !
Yeah, I am pretty certain Follica will work, a lot of people on different forums have observed results from wounding, needling, etc. And especially the story about the little kid that grew enormous amount of hair by severe wounding. So I really think they will get some results, I only hope they get great results, so that you can get any kind of coverage/density you want.
Striver is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
goata007
01.09.2008, 16:33
@ Striver
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
This is from Follica rep's comment on xcomony:
"We have seen numerous clinical reports of patients showing sustained hair cycling when exposed to conditions similar to the treatment Follica is pursuing."
Clearly, they have studied other cases of hair growth after wounding and that's why they are confident in their ability as well.
Baccy: It's been a while since you did your experiment. How are the new hair now? have they gotten any thicker/darker? How would you compare their thickness/pigmentation to your original hair?
goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein |
biston
01.09.2008, 17:10
@ Striver
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» Yeah, I am pretty certain Follica will work, a lot of people on different
» forums have observed results from wounding, needling, etc. And especially
» the story about the little kid that grew enormous amount of hair by severe
» wounding. So I really think they will get some results, I only hope they
» get great results, so that you can get any kind of coverage/density you
» want.
Sounds good I hope they can reach results and hit market not over 2010  but I think we still far away from human application even if it works
biston is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Striver
01.09.2008, 17:14
@ biston
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» » Yeah, I am pretty certain Follica will work, a lot of people on
» different
» » forums have observed results from wounding, needling, etc. And
» especially
» » the story about the little kid that grew enormous amount of hair by
» severe
» » wounding. So I really think they will get some results, I only hope
» they
» » get great results, so that you can get any kind of coverage/density you
» » want.
»
» Sounds good I hope they can reach results and hit market not over 2010
» but I think we still far away from human application even if it works
Well we don't know. If the treatment works really good, maybe there is a possibility to speed up the whole process by pumping in more money to the company. We just don't know their plan yet, what kind of different ways are possible. The thing to anticipate now are the results from their trials, which I hope will be announced on their webpage this year or early in the next.
Striver is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
01.09.2008, 17:21
@ goata007
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» Baccy: It's been a while since you did your experiment. How are the new
» hair now? have they gotten any thicker/darker? How would you compare their
» thickness/pigmentation to your original hair?
Nothing useable from the point of view of being fully bald like yourself. However, the small cluster at the middle front , most of them seem to be as thick and terminal as hair at the sides. The other hairs further back are dark and terminal but not all of them are of the quality of the frontal growth. I'm hoping that the tannic acid (when I get it) will inhibit EGF more strongly and I'm going to begin inhibition BEFORE wounding. Add to that the patent which claims an eleven fold increase in follicle neogenesis using prior depilation as opposed to no depilation, I'm pretty hopeful.
I know the system works. It's just nailing efficiency so that I don't have to do this wounding thing for the next 5 years in order to go from NW7 to NW2.
If we can grow a full head of hair on a bald head in a few sweeps of this process, it would be a resounding success. Not to mention that most of the guys on here have a LOT more hair than us to begin with, it should solve their problems too. But I'm beginning to think that for maximum efficiency, the head will have to be shaved or at least buzzed right down. Create one large wound as opposed to several small wounds.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
02.09.2008, 02:46
@ Baccy
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
For what it's worth, I'm getting near to calling my own experimenting so far as a failure.
I definitely regrew from the dermabrasion (possibly even a little more than abrasion effects alone), but I don't see enough to think I've hit on the Folica procedure yet.
The reason I point this out here is that there were a few places where I inhibited the EGF-R during the wounding days, not just after.
It lends me to think that the anti-inflammatory part of the process is probably a very necessary thing. If the inflammation issue really wasn't relevant then I should have had a lot more growth by now.
(Even if I didn't do the rest of it exactly right either, I varied things all over. Time of wounding, depth of wound, etc. I should have sprouted SOMEWHERE if I had all the primary drug bases covered by using the EGF-R drug alone.)
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
02.09.2008, 03:29
(edited by benji, 02.09.2008, 03:41)
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting---for Cal |
» For what it's worth, I'm getting near to calling my own experimenting so
» far as a failure.
»
» I definitely regrew from the dermabrasion (possibly even a little more
» than abrasion effects alone), but I don't see enough to think I've hit on
» the Folica procedure yet.
»
»
»
»
» The reason I point this out here is that there were a few places where I
» inhibited the EGF-R during the wounding days, not just after.
»
»
» It lends me to think that the anti-inflammatory part of the process is
» probably a very necessary thing. If the inflammation issue really wasn't
» relevant then I should have had a lot more growth by now.
»
» (Even if I didn't do the rest of it exactly right either, I varied things
» all over. Time of wounding, depth of wound, etc. I should have sprouted
» SOMEWHERE if I had all the primary drug bases covered by using the EGF-R
» drug alone.)
Cal,
This is why I keep harping on Experiment number 7. The mice had human skin grafted on their backs and grew human hair on that skin. Then everyone with a sunburn should have had hair sprouting on their shoulders right? But they dont. What is the difference? The mice didn't have immune systems in the series of experiments lumped in with experiment number 7.
The fact that animals can regenerate hair in response to a wound shouldn't be all that much of a suprise given what we know about balding from Hideo Uno's research on macaque balding and androgenic alopecia in humans. Humans have the immune system "get involved", but macaques dont have this----their hair just miniaturizes and they get terrific regrowth from finasteride and minoxididl, while humans only regrow hair that had been lost in the previous few years. Humans have excessive collagenous deposition, chronic inflammation, loss of a water layer, loss of fatty acids present in the scalp, crosslinked collagen in the root sheath, premature ageing of the scalp, etc. I'd love to be wrong about this, but I have a feeling------a creeping suspicion anyway, that Follica is going to find that a topical cream of tacromilus, or rampycin, or cyclosporin, or one of the others that are used for eczema or psoriasis commonly---will have to be used to make this thing go.
I really dont think the lack of a anti-microbial would be the difference. The inflammation angle (probably related to the immune system) could be a factor throwing a monkey wrench into the mix. I admit this heartily. I dont think animals get the inflammation that we get.
However Cal-----------------------lets "go back" to the getfitinib hair growth photos. Both people were on getfitinib, both had cancer, both probably (we know one did) had previously underwent chemotherapy which usually deeply compromises the immune system. They were inhibiting EGF. You were inhibiting EGF. What did they "do" that you didn't? We know it takes a "wound". In their case it was almost assuredly some mild sunburn. You abraded.
The difference is the immune status of the people at hand.
Im hoping one can just use a topical immunosuppressant cream (If Im right), but I also have a dreary feeling that system-wide immunosuppression just might be necessary. Lets hope not, but cyclo is already approved and has sales of one billion annually. So if it is, its no big thing. 10 days of cyclo isnt going to kill a healthy man.
I guess I should relate the results of my own experiments. Using lidocaine on my shoulder and the side of my chest.................I got nothing on the shoulder, but I did TCA-peel the far left upper corner of my chest. I started the lidocaine cream immediately under a stretch mark (I used to be pretty built-up--and am smaller now) and waited three days above it. I looked pretty hard and didn't see any hair before abrading this area. I have about three dark-babyish hairs above the stretch mark, and two smaller one's below it. I dont remember seeing them before. I have a hairy chest though, so just to the right of this area the hair starts on my chest. The abrasion might have merely invigorated stem cells in the area and kickstarted hairs that would have fired up in a few years (we get hairier with age) anyway. The shoulder, where I really wanted to see results, had nada. Lidocaine cream is only four percent lidocaine, and has a bunch of other stuff in it that might interefere with this process. Using what you did would have been much much better. I think getfitinib would really be the best thing to use because of the two hair growth cases associated with it. Baccy is going to try tannic acid.
We also have to consider that perhaps after about day 12 or so past wounding, applying minoxidil might help steroid any hairs made up to larger sizes and get the ball rolling---but the two getfitinib photos probably didn't have that going for them.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
02.09.2008, 03:37
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» For what it's worth, I'm getting near to calling my own experimenting so
» far as a failure.
There are degrees of success. If you had a bald head and could look at JUST the new hair that you grew, would you be impressed? If you already have a substantial amount of hair, it may be difficult to see a change if you treated areas already possessing hair. We can't really expect to cover areas in hair from our very first DIY tinpot experiments.
My hair stands out because beforehand there were zero hairs except for vellus hair here and there. Despite the amount of hair grown not being cosmetically sufficient (I'd still rather shave for uniformity) I consider my growth a tangible success. From nothing to maybe a couple hundred hairs is a start.
»
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
MPB
02.09.2008, 07:07
@ benji
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting---for Cal |
» However Cal-----------------------lets "go back" to the getfitinib hair
» growth photos. Both people were on getfitinib, both had cancer, both
» probably (we know one did) had previously underwent chemotherapy which
» usually deeply compromises the immune system. They were inhibiting EGF. You
» were inhibiting EGF. What did they "do" that you didn't? We know it takes a
» "wound". In their case it was almost assuredly some mild sunburn. You
» abraded.
»
» The difference is the immune status of the people at hand.
»
»
» Im hoping one can just use a topical immunosuppressant cream (If Im
» right), but I also have a dreary feeling that system-wide immunosuppression
» just might be necessary. Lets hope not, but cyclo is already approved and
» has sales of one billion annually. So if it is, its no big thing. 10 days
» of cyclo isnt going to kill a healthy man.
»
»
»
» I guess I should relate the results of my own experiments. Using lidocaine
» on my shoulder and the side of my chest.................I got nothing on
» the shoulder, but I did TCA-peel the far left upper corner of my chest. I
» started the lidocaine cream immediately under a stretch mark (I used to be
» pretty built-up--and am smaller now) and waited three days above it. I
» looked pretty hard and didn't see any hair before abrading this area. I
» have about three dark-babyish hairs above the stretch mark, and two smaller
» one's below it. I dont remember seeing them before. I have a hairy chest
» though, so just to the right of this area the hair starts on my chest. The
» abrasion might have merely invigorated stem cells in the area and
» kickstarted hairs that would have fired up in a few years (we get hairier
» with age) anyway. The shoulder, where I really wanted to see results, had
» nada. Lidocaine cream is only four percent lidocaine, and has a bunch of
» other stuff in it that might interefere with this process. Using what you
» did would have been much much better. I think getfitinib would really be
» the best thing to use because of the two hair growth cases associated with
» it. Baccy is going to try tannic acid.
»
» We also have to consider that perhaps after about day 12 or so past
» wounding, applying minoxidil might help steroid any hairs made up to larger
» sizes and get the ball rolling---but the two getfitinib photos probably
» didn't have that going for them.
Benji- Do you conclude that the only necessary "drug" involved in the so called Follica cocktail would be some sort of immunosuppressant? No EGF-R inhibitor or wnt-protein, etc. Just wound and add the immunosuppresseant at the exact time of wounding. If this is the case, how long should one take the system wide immunosuppressant and what are the risks? Thanx.
MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
02.09.2008, 10:38
@ MPB
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting---for Cal |
»
» Benji- Do you conclude that the only necessary "drug" involved in the so
» called Follica cocktail would be some sort of immunosuppressant? No EGF-R
» inhibitor or wnt-protein, etc. Just wound and add the immunosuppresseant at
» the exact time of wounding. If this is the case, how long should one take
» the system wide immunosuppressant and what are the risks? Thanx.
Immunosuppressants are dodgy stuff to take. I can't see an oral immunosuppressant forming a part of any commercial treatment for hairloss.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
02.09.2008, 10:41
@ Baccy
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
New date given to me for posting out my tannic acid is week beginning 15th September! This stuff is harder to get than crack cocaine! I'm really pissed off! I'll just have to do some dermarolling in the meantime just so I feel I'm getting somewhere.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
benji
02.09.2008, 11:59
@ MPB
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting---for Cal |
» » However Cal-----------------------lets "go back" to the getfitinib hair
» » growth photos. Both people were on getfitinib, both had cancer, both
» » probably (we know one did) had previously underwent chemotherapy which
» » usually deeply compromises the immune system. They were inhibiting EGF.
» You
» » were inhibiting EGF. What did they "do" that you didn't? We know it
» takes a
» » "wound". In their case it was almost assuredly some mild sunburn. You
» » abraded.
» »
» » The difference is the immune status of the people at hand.
» »
» »
» » Im hoping one can just use a topical immunosuppressant cream (If Im
» » right), but I also have a dreary feeling that system-wide
» immunosuppression
» » just might be necessary. Lets hope not, but cyclo is already approved
» and
» » has sales of one billion annually. So if it is, its no big thing. 10
» days
» » of cyclo isnt going to kill a healthy man.
» »
» »
» »
» » I guess I should relate the results of my own experiments. Using
» lidocaine
» » on my shoulder and the side of my chest.................I got nothing
» on
» » the shoulder, but I did TCA-peel the far left upper corner of my chest.
» I
» » started the lidocaine cream immediately under a stretch mark (I used to
» be
» » pretty built-up--and am smaller now) and waited three days above it. I
» » looked pretty hard and didn't see any hair before abrading this area. I
» » have about three dark-babyish hairs above the stretch mark, and two
» smaller
» » one's below it. I dont remember seeing them before. I have a hairy
» chest
» » though, so just to the right of this area the hair starts on my chest.
» The
» » abrasion might have merely invigorated stem cells in the area and
» » kickstarted hairs that would have fired up in a few years (we get
» hairier
» » with age) anyway. The shoulder, where I really wanted to see results,
» had
» » nada. Lidocaine cream is only four percent lidocaine, and has a bunch
» of
» » other stuff in it that might interefere with this process. Using what
» you
» » did would have been much much better. I think getfitinib would really
» be
» » the best thing to use because of the two hair growth cases associated
» with
» » it. Baccy is going to try tannic acid.
» »
» » We also have to consider that perhaps after about day 12 or so past
» » wounding, applying minoxidil might help steroid any hairs made up to
» larger
» » sizes and get the ball rolling---but the two getfitinib photos probably
» » didn't have that going for them.
»
»
» Benji- Do you conclude that the only necessary "drug" involved in the so
» called Follica cocktail would be some sort of immunosuppressant? No EGF-R
» inhibitor or wnt-protein, etc. Just wound and add the immunosuppresseant at
» the exact time of wounding. If this is the case, how long should one take
» the system wide immunosuppressant and what are the risks? Thanx.
I think egf antagonists are probably going to be a must to really get a dense result, or else they wouldn't put it in the patent. Id love to be wrong about this, and hope that I am, but Im pretty sure that a topical immunosuppressant cream might prove to be necessary in vivo in human beings to make this thing go. The trials at Harvard right now are looking to see what happens when human scalp on a person (not grafted to a SCID mouse) is disrupted. I think they might find immune cells cluster around that skin and attempt to kill any would-be invaders and microbes, fungi, and bacteria that will take the opportunity to invade the injured skin----like the immune system would do against any skin infection or lesion. An autoimmune event will oft damage the area around the "targeted" organ kind of like a grenade going off in the lap of a person beside you-----you get hurt to. The immune response to a bunch of bacteria on the infected skin might interfere with the stem cells building much of this hair. The epidermal stem cells are the "hair makers" in this process, so they have to be allowed to do their job (which is why Ive advocated doing all internals if possible until Follica comes up with a winning topical mix). Im interested in TAGOHL's results. It will probably be about a month before he can say if he got some new growth because he got started later than Cal did.
benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
goata007
02.09.2008, 17:05
@ benji
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting---for Cal |
On xconomy, somone called 'D' (I think Striver on this forum) posted an account of a kid, with few hair on his head, got good growth after treating his scalp for motor-oil burn. If he can somehow get any info about what procedure doctor used on his scalp & medications, that would give us a really good head start.
goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein |
Striver
02.09.2008, 17:43
@ goata007
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting---for Cal |
» On xconomy, somone called 'D' (I think Striver on this forum) posted an
» account of a kid, with few hair on his head, got good growth after treating
» his scalp for motor-oil burn. If he can somehow get any info about what
» procedure doctor used on his scalp & medications, that would give us a
» really good head start.
Hehe, you are a good detective goata007! Yes it was me. That happened a while back, namely in the 1960's sometime. My mother told me about that. She doesn't know what the doctors used, but I guess something antiinflammatory since the whole scalp was full of scars which they removed. She remembers how everyone commented on how he got a beautiful full head of hair after that. But no idea what the doctors used, nobody got in touch with them (that she knows of).
I hope Follica will see this by analyzing everything carefully, which is probably what they are doing now. Let's just hope we soon get some positive feedback from them. It would be good if they could announce, just as Intercytex, when their next planned report is about to be released.
Striver is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Baccy
02.09.2008, 20:57
@ debris
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
Seeing that I'm delayed from beginning my next experiment, I've decided to order some roxithromycin tabs to incorporate into the topical. This will account for the immunosuppressant factor. It's looking like I won't be getting the tannic acid until about 17th or 18th Sept. so I should also have the roxi by then. Add lithium orotate to this and stick the mixture in emu oil and I should be good to go. Well, that's the plan anyhow.
Baccy has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
Baccy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
02.09.2008, 21:35
@ Baccy
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
Well at any rate, my next round of experimenting is gonna go after the immune system angle.
It's probably gonna be topical Gentifib + some kind of powerful topical immunosuppressant (not just an anti-inflam).
I'll go at it with the same mindset as the last time: F*ck ideal growth, let's just hold off on ALL the extra variables until somebody cracks the basic code.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Mr.Fantastic
02.09.2008, 22:19
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» Well at any rate, my next round of experimenting is gonna go after the
» immune system angle.
»
» It's probably gonna be topical Gentifib + some kind of powerful topical
» immunosuppressant (not just an anti-inflam).
»
»
»
» I'll go at it with the same mindset as the last time: F*ck ideal growth,
» let's just hold off on ALL the extra variables until somebody cracks the
» basic code.
So you got a hold of getfitinib?
Mr.Fantastic is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
MPB
03.09.2008, 07:32
@ cal
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» Well at any rate, my next round of experimenting is gonna go after the
» immune system angle.
»
» It's probably gonna be topical Gentifib + some kind of powerful topical
» immunosuppressant (not just an anti-inflam).
»
»
»
» I'll go at it with the same mindset as the last time: F*ck ideal growth,
» let's just hold off on ALL the extra variables until somebody cracks the
» basic code.
I agree with Benji in that an immunosuppressant is probaly necessary. What are some examples of these and how obtainable are they? And if so, how safe?
MPB has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
MPB is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
forresthill
03.09.2008, 08:37
@ Baccy
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» » For what it's worth, I'm getting near to calling my own experimenting so
» » far as a failure.
» There are degrees of success. If you had a bald head and could look at
» JUST the new hair that you grew, would you be impressed? If you already
» have a substantial amount of hair, it may be difficult to see a change if
» you treated areas already possessing hair. We can't really expect to cover
» areas in hair from our very first DIY tinpot experiments.
» My hair stands out because beforehand there were zero hairs except for
» vellus hair here and there. Despite the amount of hair grown not being
» cosmetically sufficient (I'd still rather shave for uniformity) I consider
» my growth a tangible success. From nothing to maybe a couple hundred hairs
» is a start.
» »
Honestly, the results that you've described are better than anything that's been achieved by Minoxidyl or Finasteride on someone who's a NW6 or 7. Why don't you post before and after pics? The goal of these experiments isn't to achieve results that are cosmetic necessarily, so hopefully any criticism from other posters will be kept to a minimum.
forresthill is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
03.09.2008, 16:16
@ forresthill
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
As for drugs, I haven't sorted out what & where I'm gonna get yet.
I still want to give things a few more weeks anyway, because I'm concerned about repeatedly abrading the same area too much without a break. If I do the spot again in a few weeks, it will already mark the third time in about 6 months.
I'm not gonna post pics of the current situation because looking back, I don't think the "before" pics are good & clear enough. I took several pics before, but I should have done better. I definitely will next time.
What I could show now is not better enough from the results of minox & some strong DHT drugs. It would get ripped to shreds by the HM detracters.
I think if the results are difficult to photograph then it's not worth getting excited about. There are a lot of cases of things regrowing A FEW hairs already. Even ICX did that. As far as I'm concerned, this stuff only gets noteworthy when it produces a patch of thick-density growth of terminal hairs that look like they could have come from the "safe zone."
Baccy's results on the other thread look much better than mine. If his hairs really grow out as thick as the follicles look right now, then we're saved.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cricket
03.09.2008, 21:12
@ MPB
|
another quick update on my Folica experimenting |
» » Well at any rate, my next round of experimenting is gonna go after the
» » immune system angle.
» »
» » It's probably gonna be topical Gentifib + some kind of powerful topical
» » immunosuppressant (not just an anti-inflam).
» »
» »
» »
» » I'll go at it with the same mindset as the last time: F*ck ideal
» growth,
» » let's just hold off on ALL the extra variables until somebody cracks
» the
» » basic code.
»
»
» I agree with Benji in that an immunosuppressant is probaly necessary. What
» are some examples of these and how obtainable are they? And if so, how
» safe?
tacrolimus and pimecrolimus are formulated in cream/gel and ,specially for short period , are safe...
ciclo is strong and can be used only orally because molecule is too
large to penetrate.
cricket is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Thread view
Order