Hair Loss - Fibrosis and inflammation *key* to Topical success

The videos and photos you see on HairSite are provided by paid sponsors and are not endorsed by HairSite in any way. The recommendations, results, and representations made by our sponsors do not reflect the opinions of HairSite.

Pete2

04.07.2009, 06:15

Fibrosis and inflammation *key* to Topical success (All Topicals & Shampoos)
Post reply

Im becoming even more convinced that using agents to help with Fibrosis and inflammation will be the *key* to Topical success:

This just published study features the integral role that both inflammation and fibrosis play in AGA. It implies that the role played by inflammation and fibrosis is more central to hair loss than the hormonal initiators, namely DHT and Androstenedione.

Androgenetic alopecia in males: a histopathological and ultrastructural study

J Cosmet Dermatol. 2009 Jun;8(2):83-91.

Androgenetic alopecia in males: a histopathological and ultrastructural study.
El-Domyati M, Attia S, Saleh F, Abdel-Wahab H.

Department of Dermatology, Faculty of Medicine, Al-Minya University, Al-Minya,
Egypt

Background Androgenetic alopecia is a common cosmetic hair disorder, resulting from interplay of genetic, endocrine, and aging factors leading to a patterned follicular miniaturization. Microinflammation seems to be a potential active player in this process. Aims To study the histopathological and ultrastructural changes occurring in male androgenetic alopecia (AGA). Patients/methods Fifty-five subjects were included in this study (40 with AGA and 15 as normal age-matched controls). Skin biopsies from frontal bald area and occipital hairy area were subjected to histopathological examination, immunohistochemical staining for collagen I and ultrastructural study. Results The frontal bald area of patients showed highly significant increase in telogen hairs and decrease in anagen/telogen ratio and terminal/vellus hair ratio (P < 0.001). Perifollicular inflammation was almost a constant feature in early cases and showed a significant inverse correlation with perifollicular fibrosis (P = 0.048), which was more marked with thickening of the follicular sheath in advanced cases. Conclusion Follicular microinflammation plays an integral role in the pathogenesis of AGA in early cases. Over time, thickening of perifollicular sheath takes place due to increased deposition of collagen, resulting in marked perifollicular fibrosis, and sometimes ends by complete destruction of the affected follicles in advanced cases.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

fckhrls

04.07.2009, 13:22

@ Pete2
Cause or effect?
Post reply

Simply from anecdotal evidence collected on this board, its pretty obvious that inflammation is a factor. This study confirms this, but it doesn't say much about whether or not its a cause or an effect. I know nothing about steroids except that they can't be taken chronically, but it would be interesting to see what a topical steroidal cream would do. Are there any safe anti-inflamitories that can be taken daily? I don't know of any.

fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

04.07.2009, 15:14

@ fckhrls
Cause or effect?
Post reply

� Simply from anecdotal evidence collected on this board, its pretty obvious
� that inflammation is a factor. This study confirms this, but it doesn't
� say much about whether or not its a cause or an effect. I know nothing
� about steroids except that they can't be taken chronically, but it would be
� interesting to see what a topical steroidal cream would do. Are there any
� safe anti-inflamitories that can be taken daily? I don't know of any.

Piroctone Olamine has been shown to beneficial.

There are undoubtedly other factors :

1)inflammation
2)fibrosis
3)SOD levels
4)bloodflow
5)cellular health

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

fckhrls

04.07.2009, 15:30

@ Pete2
Cause or effect?
Post reply

� � Simply from anecdotal evidence collected on this board, its pretty
� obvious
� � that inflammation is a factor. This study confirms this, but it
� doesn't
� � say much about whether or not its a cause or an effect. I know nothing
� � about steroids except that they can't be taken chronically, but it would
� be
� � interesting to see what a topical steroidal cream would do. Are there
� any
� � safe anti-inflamitories that can be taken daily? I don't know of any.
�
�
�
� Piroctone Olamine has been shown to beneficial.
�
� There are undoubtedly other factors :
�
� 1)inflammation
� 2)fibrosis
� 3)SOD levels
� 4)bloodflow
� 5)cellular health
�
�
�
�
� Regards
� Pete

In the end, I think AA will be proven to be an auto-imune disorder, which is too bad, as there's not much that can be done about those sort of things (at least not in our useful lifetime). One will either have to suppress DHT (which really only slows the inevitable), or grow completely new follicles through HM or some other technique.

fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

04.07.2009, 16:44

@ fckhrls
Cause or effect?
Post reply

� � � Simply from anecdotal evidence collected on this board, its pretty
� � obvious
� � � that inflammation is a factor. This study confirms this, but it
� � doesn't
� � � say much about whether or not its a cause or an effect. I know
� nothing
� � � about steroids except that they can't be taken chronically, but it
� would
� � be
� � � interesting to see what a topical steroidal cream would do. Are
� there
� � any
� � � safe anti-inflamitories that can be taken daily? I don't know of
� any.
� �
� �
� �
� � Piroctone Olamine has been shown to beneficial.
� �
� � There are undoubtedly other factors :
� �
� � 1)inflammation
� � 2)fibrosis
� � 3)SOD levels
� � 4)bloodflow
� � 5)cellular health
� �
� �
� �
� �
� � Regards
� � Pete
�
� In the end, I think AA will be proven to be an auto-imune disorder, which
� is too bad, as there's not much that can be done about those sort of things
� (at least not in our useful lifetime). One will either have to suppress
� DHT (which really only slows the inevitable), or grow completely new
� follicles through HM or some other technique.

Are you talking about Alopecia Areata?

We may find other clues to successful treatments for MPB when we look into interlinks into health issues ie. the relationship between MPB and heart problems.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

HanginInThere

Hair loss University,
05.07.2009, 03:15

@ Pete2
Cause or effect?
Post reply

� � � � Simply from anecdotal evidence collected on this board, its pretty
� � � obvious
� � � � that inflammation is a factor. This study confirms this, but it
� � � doesn't
� � � � say much about whether or not its a cause or an effect. I know
� � nothing
� � � � about steroids except that they can't be taken chronically, but it
� � would
� � � be
� � � � interesting to see what a topical steroidal cream would do. Are
� � there
� � � any
� � � � safe anti-inflamitories that can be taken daily? I don't know of
� � any.
� � �
� � �
� � �
� � � Piroctone Olamine has been shown to beneficial.
� � �
� � � There are undoubtedly other factors :
� � �
� � � 1)inflammation
� � � 2)fibrosis
� � � 3)SOD levels
� � � 4)bloodflow
� � � 5)cellular health
� � �
� � �
� � �
� � �
� � � Regards
� � � Pete
� �
� � In the end, I think AA will be proven to be an auto-imune disorder,
� which
� � is too bad, as there's not much that can be done about those sort of
� things
� � (at least not in our useful lifetime). One will either have to
� suppress
� � DHT (which really only slows the inevitable), or grow completely new
� � follicles through HM or some other technique.
�
�
� Are you talking about Alopecia Areata?
�
�
� We may find other clues to successful treatments for MPB when we look into
� interlinks into health issues ie. the relationship between MPB and heart
� problems.
�
�
�
�
�
�
� Regards
� Pete

What do you mean by fibrosis

when you search google it comes up with pulmonary fibrosis, cystic fibrosis, etc

HanginInThere is located in HAIR LOSS UNIVERSITY and he is available to meet: NO
---
Hangin..(ideal regimen) ........current regimen is just Saw Palmetto and Beta Sis

Maxi Hair by Country Life 2/day
Kal Amino Max ..Chelated Multi Mineral..2/day

DHT blockers (daily intake)
Saw Palmetto, 320mg Standardized
Pygeum 500mg
Nettles 500mg
Beta Sitosterol 125mg

Pete2

06.07.2009, 04:13

@ HanginInThere
Cause or effect?
Post reply

�
� What do you mean by fibrosis
�
� when you search google it comes up with pulmonary fibrosis, cystic
� fibrosis, etc

http://www.keratin.com/ac/baldnessbiology/collagenbuildup/001collagenbuildupcausesbaldness.shtml

Although some of these ideas could have some merit. It could be the case that we are becoming over technical with them.

This issue could be helped simply with daily Scalp massages with anti inflammatory shampoo / Essential oils (used in the Scottish Alopecia Study) .

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Sceptic

06.07.2009, 06:22

@ Pete2
Cause or effect?
Post reply

� Are you talking about Alopecia Areata?

No, he meant androgenetic alopecia, but it's already known that it isn't an autoimmune disorder.

Sceptic is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

06.07.2009, 07:33

@ Sceptic
Cause or effect?
Post reply

� � Are you talking about Alopecia Areata?
�
� No, he meant androgenetic alopecia, but it's already known that it isn't
� an autoimmune disorder.

No MPB isnt an auto immune disorder as such. The shrinkage/changes probably caused by DHT triggers a relentless immune response which needs to be calmed inorder to stabilise things.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

07.07.2009, 09:38
(edited by Pete2, 07.07.2009, 09:44)

@ Pete2
Cause or effect?
Post reply

� � � � Simply from anecdotal evidence collected on this board, its pretty
� � � obvious
� � � � that inflammation is a factor. This study confirms this, but it
� � � doesn't
� � � � say much about whether or not its a cause or an effect. I know
� � nothing
� � � � about steroids except that they can't be taken chronically, but it
� � would
� � � be
� � � � interesting to see what a topical steroidal cream would do. Are
� � there
� � � any
� � � � safe anti-inflamitories that can be taken daily? I don't know of
� � any.
� � �
� � �
� � �
� � � Piroctone Olamine has been shown to beneficial.
� � �
� � � There are undoubtedly other factors :
� � �
� � � 1)inflammation
� � � 2)fibrosis
� � � 3)SOD levels
� � � 4)bloodflow
� � � 5)cellular health
� � �
� � �
� � �
� � �
� � � Regards
� � � Pete
� �
� � In the end, I think AA will be proven to be an auto-imune disorder,
� which
� � is too bad, as there's not much that can be done about those sort of
� things
� � (at least not in our useful lifetime). One will either have to
� suppress
� � DHT (which really only slows the inevitable), or grow completely new
� � follicles through HM or some other technique.
�
�
� Are you talking about Alopecia Areata?
�
�
� We may find other clues to successful treatments for MPB when we look into
� interlinks into health issues ie. the relationship between MPB and heart
� problems.
�
�
�
�
�
�
� Regards
� Pete

For your own interest it seems that it is possible to improve heart health via:

1)relaxation, stress response
2)diet/lifestyle, detoxing, mitochondria supps

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

benji

07.07.2009, 16:10
(edited by benji, 07.07.2009, 16:17)

@ Pete2
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

Hideo Uno detailed that stumptailed macaque balding exhibited no inflammation vs. human balding which often (BUT NOT ALWAYS) does. Macaques dont see collagenous streamers appear under their follicles either, they just miniaturized and stay in telogen. Macaques also have a better response to drugs like finasteride and minoxidil.

In short, our immune system "gets involved", inflames the follicle, and as a result of the chronic inflammation, collageous deposition forms underneath and around the follicle's root sheath, boxing it in somewhat*

*note: Researcher and owner of keratinDOTcom Kevin McElwee has noted that healthy hairs can secrete enzymes that will eat right through collagenous deposition and grow just fine. Frontal transplants in long-bald men prove this to be so.

So WHY is the immune system inflaming the follicle?

1)Could it be that too many negative growth factors like tgf-beta 1, tgf-beta 2, pkc, thrombospondin, fiberblast growth factor five, DKK-1, or another un-named one are in one mini-organ inciting an immune response?

2) Could any particular growth factor associated with inflammation and fibrosis (tgf-beta) being secreted too much by the papilla be the reason?

3) Could it be any particular androgen-inducible gene that is upregged in MPB hair "too much" get the immune system interested that is upstream of the release of growth factors?

4)Could dead keratinocytes in the infrainfundiblulim (the hole in the dermis where the hair follicle exists the skin), because of the apoptosis of keratinocytes caused by DKK-1 (DKK-1 has been shown to cause apoptosis in Kertainocyte cells) be the reason. WE DO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE FIRST INFLAMMATION SEEN IN Androgenic Alopecia is at the infrainfundibulim......in the uppermost portion of the hair follicle where the dead kt cells would be.

5) any particular microbial that perhaps flourishes in a dying hair follicle causing an immune response

6) long term DNA damage in hair cells from AGA, inciting an immuno-response to the damaged DNA?

That about covers the usual suspects that get discussed. I lean toward either number 6 or number 4 myself. Frankly I wonder about androgen-inducible genes. If we could just inhibit one or two of them in particular topically........would the whole thing be different? I also wonder about DKK-1. If that could be inhibited topically, would the keratinocytes not undergo apoptosis.....thus leaving some dead cells in the dermis as they emerge onto the skin, perhaps inviting an immuno response so that bacteria or whatnot does not colonize the area? If I had to guess............I'd guess that dead keratinocyte cells in the infrainfundibulum would be the cause of the immuno response and attendant inflammation, and this is the reason that collagenous deposition happens a little later. But I dont know for sure of course, but it does make sense. The FIRST INFLAMMATION in androgenic baldness is seen at the infrainfundibulum, the opening in the dermis where the hair posits on the skin......right where those KT cells would be undergoeing apoptosis while still "in" the body. It makes sense in light of that. Where the first inflammation is, is where we will find our immuno-culprit in my opinion. DKK-1 is the second or third most upregged gene in AGA.

Its probably being looked into. I could of course be 100% wrong about that, but thats my "leading contender" anyway.

benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

16.07.2009, 16:58

@ benji
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� Hideo Uno detailed that stumptailed macaque balding exhibited no
� inflammation vs. human balding which often (BUT NOT ALWAYS) does. Macaques
� dont see collagenous streamers appear under their follicles either, they
� just miniaturized and stay in telogen. Macaques also have a better response
� to drugs like finasteride and minoxidil.
�
�
� In short, our immune system "gets involved", inflames the follicle, and as
� a result of the chronic inflammation, collageous deposition forms
� underneath and around the follicle's root sheath, boxing it in somewhat*
�
�
� *note: Researcher and owner of keratinDOTcom Kevin McElwee has noted that
� healthy hairs can secrete enzymes that will eat right through collagenous
� deposition and grow just fine. Frontal transplants in long-bald men prove
� this to be so.
�
�
�
�
� So WHY is the immune system inflaming the follicle?
�
�
� 1)Could it be that too many negative growth factors like tgf-beta 1,
� tgf-beta 2, pkc, thrombospondin, fiberblast growth factor five, DKK-1, or
� another un-named one are in one mini-organ inciting an immune response?
�
�
� 2) Could any particular growth factor associated with inflammation and
� fibrosis (tgf-beta) being secreted too much by the papilla be the reason?
�
�
� 3) Could it be any particular androgen-inducible gene that is upregged in
� MPB hair "too much" get the immune system interested that is upstream of
� the release of growth factors?
�
�
� 4)Could dead keratinocytes in the infrainfundiblulim (the
� hole in the dermis where the hair follicle exists the skin), because of the
� apoptosis of keratinocytes caused by DKK-1 (DKK-1 has been shown to cause
� apoptosis in Kertainocyte cells) be the reason. WE DO KNOW FOR A FACT THAT
� THE FIRST INFLAMMATION SEEN IN Androgenic Alopecia is at the
� infrainfundibulim......in the uppermost portion of the hair follicle where
� the dead kt cells would be.
�
�
� 5) any particular microbial that perhaps flourishes in a dying hair
� follicle causing an immune response
�
�
�
� 6) long term DNA damage in hair cells from AGA, inciting an
� immuno-response to the damaged DNA?
�
�
�
�
�
� That about covers the usual suspects that get discussed. I lean toward
� either number 6 or number 4 myself. Frankly I wonder about
� androgen-inducible genes. If we could just inhibit one or two of them in
� particular topically........would the whole thing be different? I also
� wonder about DKK-1. If that could be inhibited topically, would the
� keratinocytes not undergo apoptosis.....thus leaving some dead cells in the
� dermis as they emerge onto the skin, perhaps inviting an immuno response so
� that bacteria or whatnot does not colonize the area?
� If I had to guess............I'd guess that dead
� keratinocyte cells in the infrainfundibulum would be the cause of the
� immuno response and attendant inflammation, and this is the reason that
� collagenous deposition happens a little later. But I dont
� know for sure of course, but it does make sense. The FIRST
� INFLAMMATION in androgenic baldness is seen at the infrainfundibulum, the
� opening in the dermis where the hair posits on the skin......right where
� those KT cells would be undergoeing apoptosis while still "in" the body. It
� makes sense in light of that. Where the first inflammation is, is where we
� will find our immuno-culprit in my opinion. DKK-1 is the second or third
� most upregged gene in AGA.
�
� Its probably being looked into. I could of course be 100% wrong about
� that, but thats my "leading contender" anyway.

I have a hunch that scalp tension may need to addressed via some agents topically also.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

17.07.2009, 14:32

@ Pete2
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

There are millions of men on earth who are dying with thick NW#1 and NW#2 heads of hair, and they are not immune to MPB. They are not free of the problems of androgen-sensitive hair follicles or inflammation effects. Their balding genes are simply just calling for a slower balding process than ours, and that's all it took for them to live their whole lives free of our affliction.

We don't need to "cure" MPB just to be able to live like they do.

We need some kind of realistic practical treatment option for the later stages of the problem. That's all.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mj2003

Toronto,
21.07.2009, 13:58

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� There are millions of men on earth who are dying with thick NW#1 and NW#2
� heads of hair, and they are not immune to MPB. They are not free of the
� problems of androgen-sensitive hair follicles or inflammation effects.
� Their balding genes are simply just calling for a slower balding process
� than ours, and that's all it took for them to live their whole lives free
� of our affliction.
�
�
�
� We don't need to "cure" MPB just to be able to live like they do.
�
� We need some kind of realistic practical treatment option for the later
� stages of the problem. That's all.

A little off topic here, but Cal don't you think Sebum plays a major roll in hair loss as well? If we tried to eliminate sebum from our scalp I think it just may be more benificial than finasteride itself.

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

cal

21.07.2009, 15:55

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

Well, not exactly.

Sebum is an indicator of androgens in the skin. But it's not a precursor/causative thing. Just physically removing sebum from the scalp (frequent shampooing, etc) will not meaningfully reduce androgen levels.

But things that reduce the production of androgens will also reduce the production of sebum. So the level of sebem production provides sort of a dipstick reading for the level of androgen production.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

21.07.2009, 19:02

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� Well, not exactly.
�
�
� Sebum is an indicator of androgens in the skin. But it's not a
� precursor/causative thing. Just physically removing sebum from the scalp
� (frequent shampooing, etc) will not meaningfully reduce androgen levels.
�
� But things that reduce the production of androgens will also reduce the
� production of sebum. So the level of sebem production provides sort of a
� dipstick reading for the level of androgen production.

You may find that by taking Pantothenic acid will reduce the oiliness.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

benji

21.07.2009, 21:10

@ Pete2
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

�.
�
�
� You may find that by taking Pantothenic acid will reduce the oiliness.
�
�
�
�
� Regards
� Pete

Panthotenic acid is in a bunch of shampoos for just this reason. People who have low levels of panthotenic acid oft have bad acne according to some research.

benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

25.07.2009, 19:18

@ benji
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

I literally can't overstate the impact that Pantothenic acid has made in curing my acne. My body acne went from chronic & unfixable to completely gone.

I'm convinced there has been some MPB improvement with it too. I wish I had known about this stuff since puberty.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mj2003

Toronto,
26.07.2009, 02:34

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� I literally can't overstate the impact that Pantothenic acid has made in
� curing my acne. My body acne went from chronic & unfixable to completely
� gone.
�
�
� I'm convinced there has been some MPB improvement with it too. I wish I
� had known about this stuff since puberty.

Cal where is it found and how did you use it for your body acne?!? I've literally spent hundreds of dollars (seriously) on products for my shoulder and back acne to no avail. Right now I'm using doctor prescribed Clindasol Cream which isnt making the slightest difference. And this crap cost me $150 to a 2 month supply!!!

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

Pete2

26.07.2009, 08:39

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� I literally can't overstate the impact that Pantothenic acid has made in
� curing my acne. My body acne went from chronic & unfixable to completely
� gone.
�
�
� I'm convinced there has been some MPB improvement with it too. I wish I
� had known about this stuff since puberty.

Topically - an Azelaic acid based cream may also be useful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2528257

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mj2003

Toronto,
26.07.2009, 17:05

@ Pete2
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � I literally can't overstate the impact that Pantothenic acid has made in
� � curing my acne. My body acne went from chronic & unfixable to
� completely
� � gone.
� �
� �
� � I'm convinced there has been some MPB improvement with it too. I wish
� I
� � had known about this stuff since puberty.
�
�
�
� Topically - an Azelaic acid based cream may also be useful.
�
�
�
� http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2528257
�
�
�
� Regards
� Pete

Thanks Pete, I'm looking at the site. I also want to know more about Pantothenic Acid.

On a side note, I think there may be a small link between hair loss and acne.
Narrowed down to an excess amount of sebum. Excess sebum causes acne and is linked to hair loss as well. It may be interesting that if one can control and reverse the amount of sebum their body excretes, there may be a notice of decrease in hairs lost as well. This boils down to diet. I'm looking into the diet aspects these past few days and see if I can find a link between my diet and facial/body acne... and somehow see if it makes sence that it just may help my hair as well.

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

benji

26.07.2009, 21:03

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

mj2003,

The bacteria in acne can get on your sheets and pillowcases, and you will be laying your head and shoulders on that night-after-night. I'd wash your sheets and pillowcases often, as well as washing the mattress.

Sebaceous glands are androgenically stimulated, so if you have alot-of-active-androgen receptors in your dermal tissues, you likely will be producing a lot of sebum. I "think" hyperkertainization might be the utter, most upstream cause of acne lesions. The keratinocytes dont' slough off as they should in the infidulum, and get backed up and stuck in the excessive sebum secretions..............and voila', you have dead kt-cells in the skin's hair follicle openings, still technically in the body. Inflammation commences from the immune system, and the follicle gets swollen, which inhibits the sebum from flowing outward as well as it should, which in turn just backs up more dead keratinocytes (hyperkeratinization). Inflammed skin (microinflammation, seen with a microscope) might be the reason even upstream from that, because an inflammed hair follicle is swollen and might inhibit some of the keratinocyes from sloughing off in the hair channel (infidula) like they are supposed to. Bacteria gets involved as the bacteria will live off the microbes and other things -in- the sebum still stuck in the skin. The sebum gets oxidized and turns dark, and this causes the appearance of a "blackhead". When your white blood cells attack the blackhead (immune response) and cluster near the top of the skin, this causes a "whitehead".

I remember reading years ago about how a tribe of folks who never had acne in South America (Uraguay I think) started to see their youth get acne when they migrated to a modern villiage and their teenagers started eating the modern junk food diet. Acne is serious stuff and it really effects people's self esteem. Much more research is needed into the area in my opinion.

benji is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

fckhrls

26.07.2009, 23:11

@ benji
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� mj2003,
�
�
� The bacteria in acne can get on your sheets and pillowcases, and you will
� be laying your head and shoulders on that night-after-night. I'd wash your
� sheets and pillowcases often, as well as washing the mattress.
�
�
�
� Sebaceous glands are androgenically stimulated, so if you have
� alot-of-active-androgen receptors in your dermal tissues, you likely will
� be producing a lot of sebum. I "think" hyperkertainization might be the
� utter, most upstream cause of acne lesions. The keratinocytes dont' slough
� off as they should in the infidulum, and get backed up and stuck in the
� excessive sebum secretions..............and voila', you have dead kt-cells
� in the skin's hair follicle openings, still technically in the body.
� Inflammation commences from the immune system, and the follicle gets
� swollen, which inhibits the sebum from flowing outward as well as it
� should, which in turn just backs up more dead keratinocytes
� (hyperkeratinization). Inflammed skin (microinflammation, seen with a
� microscope) might be the reason even upstream from that, because an
� inflammed hair follicle is swollen and might inhibit some of the
� keratinocyes from sloughing off in the hair channel (infidula) like they
� are supposed to. Bacteria gets involved as the bacteria will live off the
� microbes and other things -in- the sebum still stuck in the skin. The sebum
� gets oxidized and turns dark, and this causes the appearance of a
� "blackhead". When your white blood cells attack the blackhead (immune
� response) and cluster near the top of the skin, this causes a "whitehead".
�
�
�
�
�
� I remember reading years ago about how a tribe of folks who never had acne
� in South America (Uraguay I think) started to see their youth get acne when
� they migrated to a modern villiage and their teenagers started eating the
� modern junk food diet. Acne is serious stuff and it really effects people's
� self esteem. Much more research is needed into the area in my opinion.

This is going to sound a little crazy, but before I got on Nizoral, I use to wash my scalp with a 10% benzoperoxide (the kind you can buy over-the-counter as an acne wash) every week or so. It seemed to really help with my scalp's itchiness and oily hair, and at the time I noted an anecdotal decrease in shedding. I stopped as I got on Nizoral and it seemed to have the same effect.

fckhrls is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

26.07.2009, 23:48

@ fckhrls
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

I'm not saying that MPB and acne are the same problem.

But IMHO we've seen a strong increase in both of these issues in recent/modernized lifestyles that has been overlooked too much by modern science. They're both accelerated by a combination of skin androgens and inflammation. SOMETHING is going on here.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

cal

27.07.2009, 00:15

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

BTW, to mj2003:

I get panto acid at a local health food store in 500mg capsules. It hasn't been particularly difficult to find although they are often out of stock (just in the temporary 3-weeks-long kind of sense). It also is called Vitamin B5. You ain't gonna find it at the corner big-chain drugstore but it's out there.

I hesitate to get you too excited about the stuff because not everyone sees the huge benefits. Some guys even blame the stuff for hurting/worsening their hair and wish they had never touched it.

But the difference it made for my own case has been enormous.

I had body acne that was so stubborn that I had given up on treating it. Then I started megadosing B5 pills and the acne was wiped out in a few months. I went from not using acne products out of hopelessness, to not using acne products because I didn't need them. THAT MUCH of a difference.

I started out really walloping my system with tons of the stuff. Huge risky levels like maybe 5000-8000mg per day. This was probably overkill and I wouldn't take quite that much again in retrospect. It would have probably been better to not talk quite that much and just let the process play out a bit more gradually.

I gradually walked it down after a couple weeks of the huge levels, to about 2000mg/day within a month or two. My acne was seriously receding by then and if I skipped a day I could tell right off. I stayed at a maintinence dose of about 2000mg/day for maybe a year, and gradually got sloppy down to 1000mg/day after that and there are no further signs of trouble. I'm still taking it after maybe 2 or 3 years and the acne is still gone.

Like I said, I'd hate to get you over-excited for something that may not do you anything like this kind of good. But this is just the truth about my experience with it.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

27.07.2009, 04:43

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � � I literally can't overstate the impact that Pantothenic acid has made
� in
� � � curing my acne. My body acne went from chronic & unfixable to
� � completely
� � � gone.
� � �
� � �
� � � I'm convinced there has been some MPB improvement with it too. I
� wish
� � I
� � � had known about this stuff since puberty.
� �
� �
� �
� � Topically - an Azelaic acid based cream may also be useful.
� �
� �
� �
� � http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2528257
� �
� �
� �
� � Regards
� � Pete
�
� Thanks Pete, I'm looking at the site. I also want to know more about
� Pantothenic Acid.
�
� On a side note, I think there may be a small link between hair loss and
� acne.
� Narrowed down to an excess amount of sebum. Excess sebum causes acne and
� is linked to hair loss as well. It may be interesting that if one can
� control and reverse the amount of sebum their body excretes, there may be a
� notice of decrease in hairs lost as well. This boils down to diet. I'm
� looking into the diet aspects these past few days and see if I can find a
� link between my diet and facial/body acne... and somehow see if it makes
� sence that it just may help my hair as well.

There is a link - heres my little theory.

In times of stress your body uses alot of DHEA and this converts into DHT hence acne. When your body is continually stressed it starts to produce this in short supply and your body starts to compensate via upregulating choelsterol - hence more acne.

Pantothenic slows this upregulation and may also shrink the sebaceous glands.

There really isnt a need to megadose - just build up slowly to a maintenance dose.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

27.07.2009, 04:48

@ benji
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� mj2003,
�
�
� The bacteria in acne can get on your sheets and pillowcases, and you will
� be laying your head and shoulders on that night-after-night. I'd wash your
� sheets and pillowcases often, as well as washing the mattress.
�
�
�
� Sebaceous glands are androgenically stimulated, so if you have
� alot-of-active-androgen receptors in your dermal tissues, you likely will
� be producing a lot of sebum. I "think" hyperkertainization might be the
� utter, most upstream cause of acne lesions. The keratinocytes dont' slough
� off as they should in the infidulum, and get backed up and stuck in the
� excessive sebum secretions..............and voila', you have dead kt-cells
� in the skin's hair follicle openings, still technically in the body.
� Inflammation commences from the immune system, and the follicle gets
� swollen, which inhibits the sebum from flowing outward as well as it
� should, which in turn just backs up more dead keratinocytes
� (hyperkeratinization). Inflammed skin (microinflammation, seen with a
� microscope) might be the reason even upstream from that, because an
� inflammed hair follicle is swollen and might inhibit some of the
� keratinocyes from sloughing off in the hair channel (infidula) like they
� are supposed to. Bacteria gets involved as the bacteria will live off the
� microbes and other things -in- the sebum still stuck in the skin. The sebum
� gets oxidized and turns dark, and this causes the appearance of a
� "blackhead". When your white blood cells attack the blackhead (immune
� response) and cluster near the top of the skin, this causes a "whitehead".
�
�
�
�
�
� I remember reading years ago about how a tribe of folks who never had acne
� in South America (Uraguay I think) started to see their youth get acne when
� they migrated to a modern villiage and their teenagers started eating the
� modern junk food diet. Acne is serious stuff and it really effects people's
� self esteem. Much more research is needed into the area in my opinion.

Reducing Stress and general detoxing / low sugar diet and an intake of Pantothenic acid should reverse the situation.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mj2003

Toronto,
27.07.2009, 15:07

@ Pete2
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � mj2003,
� �
� �
� � The bacteria in acne can get on your sheets and pillowcases, and you
� will
� � be laying your head and shoulders on that night-after-night. I'd wash
� your
� � sheets and pillowcases often, as well as washing the mattress.
� �
� �
� �
� � Sebaceous glands are androgenically stimulated, so if you have
� � alot-of-active-androgen receptors in your dermal tissues, you likely
� will
� � be producing a lot of sebum. I "think" hyperkertainization might be the
� � utter, most upstream cause of acne lesions. The keratinocytes dont'
� slough
� � off as they should in the infidulum, and get backed up and stuck in the
� � excessive sebum secretions..............and voila', you have dead
� kt-cells
� � in the skin's hair follicle openings, still technically in the body.
� � Inflammation commences from the immune system, and the follicle gets
� � swollen, which inhibits the sebum from flowing outward as well as it
� � should, which in turn just backs up more dead keratinocytes
� � (hyperkeratinization). Inflammed skin (microinflammation, seen with a
� � microscope) might be the reason even upstream from that, because an
� � inflammed hair follicle is swollen and might inhibit some of the
� � keratinocyes from sloughing off in the hair channel (infidula) like
� they
� � are supposed to. Bacteria gets involved as the bacteria will live off
� the
� � microbes and other things -in- the sebum still stuck in the skin. The
� sebum
� � gets oxidized and turns dark, and this causes the appearance of a
� � "blackhead". When your white blood cells attack the blackhead (immune
� � response) and cluster near the top of the skin, this causes a
� "whitehead".
� �
� �
� �
� �
� �
� � I remember reading years ago about how a tribe of folks who never had
� acne
� � in South America (Uraguay I think) started to see their youth get acne
� when
� � they migrated to a modern villiage and their teenagers started eating
� the
� � modern junk food diet. Acne is serious stuff and it really effects
� people's
� � self esteem. Much more research is needed into the area in my opinion.
�
�
�
� Reducing Stress and general detoxing / low sugar diet and an intake of
� Pantothenic acid should reverse the situation.
�
�
�
�
� Regards
� Pete

I dont know what detoxing is, but it's funny you mentioned low sugar diet. Show's you know your shyt ;-)

Pete I thought maybe this article may of some interest to you. Diet dictates our entire body, inside and out, and our physical aspect as well. The sebum explained here from diet HAS to effect our hair as well!

Acne Diet and The Money Factor: You Can't Sell a Healthy Diet

Ask any medical doctor if there is a connection between diet and acne and almost all of them will claim there is none. Quoting from the Journal of the American Medical Association: "Diet plays no role in acne treatment in most patients�even large amounts of certain foods have not clinically exacerbated acne".

With years of medical education and clinical experience behind these claims, how can we the simple folks who suffer from acne challenge these statements and think otherwise? The answer is: doubt. Doubt, if its stays in the borders of reason, can open many doors otherwise will stay forever shut. Believe it or not, doubt can change reality. Doubt can cure your acne and doubt can even save your life.

Fact is, countless of acne sufferers have reported that their acne seemed to get worse when they consumed certain foods and saw dramatic positive change over their acne condition when they eliminated the same foods from their diet and when certain foods with specific nutritional value were incorporated into their diet.

So why do dermatologists so stubbornly insist that diet does not cause acne? The answer: you can't make a profit promoting a healthy diet. At least not as much money as you could make by selling drugs and over the counters. There is a huge pressure upon doctors coming from the drug and pharmaceutical companies to prescribe expensive medications and lotions that create dependency. The truth is, that your doctor is in a way, a hostage by the trillion dollar drug companies. Did you know that the drug companies, who have no interest in producing something that they cannot control financially, sponsor most medical schools?

The right diet, although not a solution by itself, can, in many cases, dramatically reduce inflammation and even completely clear one's acne (if you're one of the lucky ones who's acne is triggered by allergic response to food). Promoting a clear skin diet simply means less profits for the drug and pharmaceutical companies.

The truth is that conventional medications will never cure your acne, simply because they are pre-designed NOT to fix the internal cause of acne. They are pre-designed to deal with the external symptoms of a disease as they create more and more dependency and more dependency means making more money all at our expense and ignorance.

The Theory That Diet Doesn�t Cause Acne Is A Myth
The dogmatic theory that diet does not cause acne and that acne is merely an incurable genetic disorder was based upon two dated researches published in 1969 and 1971 that were aimed at studying the connection between diet and acne.

These studies were the foundation of the �acne symptoms treatment strategy�, meaning, because acne is a genetic disease that cannot be prevented, the only way to deal with acne would be to tackle its symptoms (bacteria, inflammation, puss, redness, greasiness), by applying creams, antibiotics, taking prescription drugs and over the counters.

Surprisingly enough, years after the above studies were published, clinical trials and in depth researches experimenting the acne diet link have found that the studies from 1969 and 1971 had came to the wrong conclusions and were in fact seriously flawed.

Recent studies have clearly found a significant connection between diet and acne. It appears that the wrong diet is now thought to be one of the leading acne contributing factors that can negatively affect hormonal regulation and the natural process of toxic elimination, which can seriously aggravate one�s existing acne.

Diet Shapes Who You Are (Including Your Acne)
In the same way that crashing waves shape beach cliffs and just like the wind shapes the canyon walls, slowly and methodically over time, so does eating shapes and effects our physic, our internal system, our physical and mental being, from the organ down to the cellular level.

The idea that an object foreign to our body that is inserted by the food that we eat, has no effect on us, or has no impact on chronic conditions such as acne is absurd. Diet is the primary thing that affects and shapes who we are.

Diet has cumulative effect on our bodies, and that includes our skin condition and acne, which is a manifestation of a chronic internal problem slowly shaped and built by the wrong daily dietary choices over the years.

Acne Diet and The Kitavan Islanders
While in the U.S, more than 80% of teenagers between 16 and 18 have acne and more than 17 million Americans suffer from some form of acne, there is an interesting evidence that native people that live and eat in traditional ways, have significantly lower to no occurrences of acne.

In 2002, Dr. Cordain and his colleagues published a landmark study that examined 300 people living in the Kitavan Islands off the coast of Papua New Guinea that showed that none of the islanders had even one blemish on his or her face. Similar to the Kitavans, no case of acne had been observed when the same experiment had been conducted upon the South American Indians called the Ache, living in a remote jungle in eastern Paraguay.

The natives of Kitavan and the South American Indians had no access to the latest over the counters, topical creams or conventional acne medications and they had no dermatologist to consult with. The only vast difference between them and American or European citizens is their diet.

Acne Diet and Sugar: The Sweet Poison
Aside from the fact that sugar is a 100% pure chemical with zero nutritional value, recent studies have clearly shown a connection between the consumption of sugar and the aggravation of acne.

When you consume any form of refined carbohydrates (white sugar, white flour, white rice) here's what happens: right after you insert that 'sweet poison' into your body, it rapidly spikes up your blood sugar levels. Your body needs to bring those levels down so it secrets a surge of insulin, other male hormones and an insulin-like growth factor called IGF-1. The excretion of these hormones overwhelms your liver and your internal system in general. The excess of male hormones encourages the skin to excrete large amounts of sebum oil: The greasy substance that encourages the p.acne bacteria to grow, resulting in the aggravation of your acne.

Acne Diet and Dairy Products: Got Milk? Got Acne
If you thought sugar can aggravate your acne, here's another major nutritional player in the formation of acne: behold the miracles of milk. Milk (all dairy products included) is the most harmful, mucus forming, allergenic and acne aggravating food you can find. Surprised? I thought so. After years of constant brainwashing by the media, who can blame us for thinking milk is good for strong bones and healthy teeth? The truth is: every sip of milk contains 59 different raging hormones, (which trigger the hyper-production of sebum oil resulting in more acne), saturated animal fat, steroid hormones, dead white blood cells, and cow pus in abundance!

Did you know that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) allows 750 million pus cells in every liter of milk (about two pounds) produced in America? Think about it, the next time you pop a pimple.

Scientific studies already point the finger at milk as one of the worst acne aggravating foods: "As pointed out by Dr. Jerome Fisher, 'About 80 percent of cows that are giving milk are pregnant and are throwing off hormones continuously.' Progesterone breaks down into androgens, which have been implicated as a factor in the development of acne...Dr. Fisher observed that his teenage acne patients improved as soon as the milk drinking stopped."

If there's one element you should remove from your diet in the quest for clear skin make it this one. Not only will you see an immediate improvement over your acne, you'll feel a huge weight has been lifted from your body. If you worry about calcium intake, don�t! Milk being acidic forming food creates a leeching effect where calcium is taken from your bones to balance the acidity. Milk actually deprives your body from its calcium resources. Green leafy vegetables, nuts and seeds are not only excellent sources of calcium they also have the powers to help you fight your acne symptoms.

Diet is Only One of The Factors That Cause Acne
Dairy products and sugar are not the only acne aggravating foods. The two above cannot sum up the list of western made acne triggering foods. There are several other foods you should clearly stay away from if you ever wish to clear your acne. The good new is that there are tons of other foods such as essential fatty acids that are not only excellent for your skin, they can actually help you clear your acne, by re-balancing your body and promoting to an acne-free environment.

The right nutrition plays an important part in the complex process of acne formation. When doctors claim there is no link between diet and acne because certain individuals can eat specific foods and get acne while others eat the same foods and don't, these doctors have failed to realize that there are several factors involved in the formation and aggravation of acne and diet is only ONE of them.

The Final Verdict On The Acne Diet Connection: How To Finally Overcome Your Acne Challenge
Acne is a complex condition that is triggered by several underlying factors. The only way to neutralize your acne condition is to tackle all these acne-contributing factors- the holistic way.

Since the wrong diet is only one of these acne-triggering factors, in most cases no special diet can cure acne.

There is a however, a tight connection between diet and acne formation. Dietary factors can trigger and aggravate your existing acne. Avoiding the wrong foods such as milk, sugar and hydrogenated oils, and eating cleansing and hormonal balancing foods such as green leafy vegetables and essential fatty acids, can help your skin heal itself from the inside out and dramatically reduce your acne symptoms.

There are also several important dietary principals that you must understand and follow if you ever want to cure your acne for good.

Taking responsibility over your body and adhering to these dietary principals along with taking the necessary steps to tackle all acne contributing factors, holistically, will not only cure your acne permanently and give you the flawless acne free skin you deserve, following these principals will also significantly improve your overall health, mental well-being, look and feel.

Mike Walden is a certified nutritionist, independent medical researcher, natural health consultant and author of the #1 best-selling e-book, "Acne No More- Open The Door To An Acne Free Life." Mike has written dozens of holistic health articles and has been featured in ezines and print magazines, as well as on hundreds of websites worldwide. For information on Mike's Holistic Clear Skin program, visit: www.acnenomore.com

By Mike Walden
Published: 8/17/2006

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

Pete2

27.07.2009, 16:29

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

funny you mentioned
� low sugar diet. Show's you know your shyt ;-)
�
� Pete I thought maybe this article may of some interest to you. Diet
� dictates our entire body, inside and out, and our physical aspect as well.
� The sebum explained here from diet HAS to effect our hair as well![/color]
�
�
� Acne Diet and The Money Factor: You Can't Sell a Healthy Diet
�
� Ask any medical doctor if there is a connection between diet and acne and
� almost all of them will claim there is none. Quoting from the Journal of
� the American Medical Association: "Diet plays no role in acne treatment in
� most patients�even large amounts of certain foods have not clinically
� exacerbated acne".
�
� With years of medical education and clinical experience behind these
� claims, how can we the simple folks who suffer from acne challenge these
� statements and think otherwise? The answer is: doubt. Doubt, if its stays
� in the borders of reason, can open many doors otherwise will stay forever
� shut. Believe it or not, doubt can change reality. Doubt can cure your acne
� and doubt can even save your life.
�
� Fact is, countless of acne sufferers have reported that their acne seemed
� to get worse when they consumed certain foods and saw dramatic positive
� change over their acne condition when they eliminated the same foods from
� their diet and when certain foods with specific nutritional value were
� incorporated into their diet.
�
� So why do dermatologists so stubbornly insist that diet does not cause
� acne? The answer: you can't make a profit promoting a healthy diet. At
� least not as much money as you could make by selling drugs and over the
� counters. There is a huge pressure upon doctors coming from the drug and
� pharmaceutical companies to prescribe expensive medications and lotions
� that create dependency. The truth is, that your doctor is in a way, a
� hostage by the trillion dollar drug companies. Did you know that the drug
� companies, who have no interest in producing something that they cannot
� control financially, sponsor most medical schools?
�
� The right diet, although not a solution by itself, can, in many cases,
� dramatically reduce inflammation and even completely clear one's acne (if
� you're one of the lucky ones who's acne is triggered by allergic response
� to food). Promoting a clear skin diet simply means less profits for the
� drug and pharmaceutical companies.
�
� The truth is that conventional medications will never cure your acne,
� simply because they are pre-designed NOT to fix the internal cause of acne.
� They are pre-designed to deal with the external symptoms of a disease as
� they create more and more dependency and more dependency means making more
� money all at our expense and ignorance.
�
� The Theory That Diet Doesn�t Cause Acne Is A Myth
� The dogmatic theory that diet does not cause acne and that acne is merely
� an incurable genetic disorder was based upon two dated researches published
� in 1969 and 1971 that were aimed at studying the connection between diet
� and acne.
�
� These studies were the foundation of the �acne symptoms treatment
� strategy�, meaning, because acne is a genetic disease that cannot be
� prevented, the only way to deal with acne would be to tackle its symptoms
� (bacteria, inflammation, puss, redness, greasiness), by applying creams,
� antibiotics, taking prescription drugs and over the counters.
�
� Surprisingly enough, years after the above studies were published,
� clinical trials and in depth researches experimenting the acne diet link
� have found that the studies from 1969 and 1971 had came to the wrong
� conclusions and were in fact seriously flawed.
�
� Recent studies have clearly found a significant connection between diet
� and acne. It appears that the wrong diet is now thought to be one of the
� leading acne contributing factors that can negatively affect hormonal
� regulation and the natural process of toxic elimination, which can
� seriously aggravate one�s existing acne.
�
� Diet Shapes Who You Are (Including Your Acne)
� In the same way that crashing waves shape beach cliffs and just like the
� wind shapes the canyon walls, slowly and methodically over time, so does
� eating shapes and effects our physic, our internal system, our physical and
� mental being, from the organ down to the cellular level.
�
� The idea that an object foreign to our body that is inserted by the food
� that we eat, has no effect on us, or has no impact on chronic conditions
� such as acne is absurd. Diet is the primary thing that affects and shapes
� who we are.
�
� Diet has cumulative effect on our bodies, and that includes our skin
� condition and acne, which is a manifestation of a chronic internal problem
� slowly shaped and built by the wrong daily dietary choices over the years.
�
�
� Acne Diet and The Kitavan Islanders
� While in the U.S, more than 80% of teenagers between 16 and 18 have acne
� and more than 17 million Americans suffer from some form of acne, there is
� an interesting evidence that native people that live and eat in traditional
� ways, have significantly lower to no occurrences of acne.
�
� In 2002, Dr. Cordain and his colleagues published a landmark study that
� examined 300 people living in the Kitavan Islands off the coast of Papua
� New Guinea that showed that none of the islanders had even one blemish on
� his or her face. Similar to the Kitavans, no case of acne had been observed
� when the same experiment had been conducted upon the South American Indians
� called the Ache, living in a remote jungle in eastern Paraguay.
�
� The natives of Kitavan and the South American Indians had no access to the
� latest over the counters, topical creams or conventional acne medications
� and they had no dermatologist to consult with. The only vast difference
� between them and American or European citizens is their diet.
�
� Acne Diet and Sugar: The Sweet Poison
� Aside from the fact that sugar is a 100% pure chemical with zero
� nutritional value, recent studies have clearly shown a connection between
� the consumption of sugar and the aggravation of acne.
�
� When you consume any form of refined carbohydrates (white sugar, white
� flour, white rice) here's what happens: right after you insert that 'sweet
� poison' into your body, it rapidly spikes up your blood sugar levels. Your
� body needs to bring those levels down so it secrets a surge of insulin,
� other male hormones and an insulin-like growth factor called IGF-1. The
� excretion of these hormones overwhelms your liver and your internal system
� in general. The excess of male hormones encourages the skin to excrete
� large amounts of sebum oil: The greasy substance that encourages the p.acne
� bacteria to grow, resulting in the aggravation of your acne.
�
� Acne Diet and Dairy Products: Got Milk? Got Acne
� If you thought sugar can aggravate your acne, here's another major
� nutritional player in the formation of acne: behold the miracles of milk.
� Milk (all dairy products included) is the most harmful, mucus forming,
� allergenic and acne aggravating food you can find. Surprised? I thought so.
� After years of constant brainwashing by the media, who can blame us for
� thinking milk is good for strong bones and healthy teeth? The truth is:
� every sip of milk contains 59 different raging hormones, (which trigger the
� hyper-production of sebum oil resulting in more acne), saturated animal
� fat, steroid hormones, dead white blood cells, and cow pus in abundance!
�
� Did you know that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) allows 750
� million pus cells in every liter of milk (about two pounds) produced in
� America? Think about it, the next time you pop a pimple.
�
� Scientific studies already point the finger at milk as one of the worst
� acne aggravating foods: "As pointed out by Dr. Jerome Fisher, 'About 80
� percent of cows that are giving milk are pregnant and are throwing off
� hormones continuously.' Progesterone breaks down into androgens, which have
� been implicated as a factor in the development of acne...Dr. Fisher
� observed that his teenage acne patients improved as soon as the milk
� drinking stopped."
�
� If there's one element you should remove from your diet in the quest for
� clear skin make it this one. Not only will you see an immediate improvement
� over your acne, you'll feel a huge weight has been lifted from your body.
� If you worry about calcium intake, don�t! Milk being acidic forming food
� creates a leeching effect where calcium is taken from your bones to balance
� the acidity. Milk actually deprives your body from its calcium resources.
� Green leafy vegetables, nuts and seeds are not only excellent sources of
� calcium they also have the powers to help you fight your acne symptoms.
�
� Diet is Only One of The Factors That Cause Acne
� Dairy products and sugar are not the only acne aggravating foods. The two
� above cannot sum up the list of western made acne triggering foods. There
� are several other foods you should clearly stay away from if you ever wish
� to clear your acne. The good new is that there are tons of other foods such
� as essential fatty acids that are not only excellent for your skin, they
� can actually help you clear your acne, by re-balancing your body and
� promoting to an acne-free environment.
�
� The right nutrition plays an important part in the complex process of acne
� formation. When doctors claim there is no link between diet and acne
� because certain individuals can eat specific foods and get acne while
� others eat the same foods and don't, these doctors have failed to realize
� that there are several factors involved in the formation and aggravation of
� acne and diet is only ONE of them.
�
� The Final Verdict On The Acne Diet Connection: How To Finally Overcome
� Your Acne Challenge
� Acne is a complex condition that is triggered by several underlying
� factors. The only way to neutralize your acne condition is to tackle all
� these acne-contributing factors- the holistic way.
�
� Since the wrong diet is only one of these acne-triggering factors, in most
� cases no special diet can cure acne.
�
� There is a however, a tight connection between diet and acne formation.
� Dietary factors can trigger and aggravate your existing acne. Avoiding the
� wrong foods such as milk, sugar and hydrogenated oils, and eating cleansing
� and hormonal balancing foods such as green leafy vegetables and essential
� fatty acids, can help your skin heal itself from the inside out and
� dramatically reduce your acne symptoms.
�
� There are also several important dietary principals that you must
� understand and follow if you ever want to cure your acne for good.
�
� Taking responsibility over your body and adhering to these dietary
� principals along with taking the necessary steps to tackle all acne
� contributing factors, holistically, will not only cure your acne
� permanently and give you the flawless acne free skin you deserve, following
� these principals will also significantly improve your overall health,
� mental well-being, look and feel.
�
� Mike Walden is a certified nutritionist, independent medical researcher,
� natural health consultant and author of the #1 best-selling e-book, "Acne
� No More- Open The Door To An Acne Free Life." Mike has written dozens of
� holistic health articles and has been featured in ezines and print
� magazines, as well as on hundreds of websites worldwide. For information on
� Mike's Holistic Clear Skin program, visit: www.acnenomore.com
�
� By Mike Walden
� Published: 8/17/2006

Thanks diet is important - although I dont think that there is a need to be overly strict with it - reducing your stress levels is even more important in my humble opinion.

The root cause of most issues is a combination of STRESS and diet. Once you reduce stress /anxiety and yes improving your diet / supps things normally normalise.

When your stressed your body holds onto toxins and jumps into survial mode!

You can often offload these toxins with a bunch of herbs and sauna sessions to name but a few methods.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

goata007

29.07.2009, 08:27
(edited by goata007, 29.07.2009, 08:34)

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� I literally can't overstate the impact that Pantothenic acid has made in
� curing my acne. My body acne went from chronic & unfixable to completely
� gone.
�
�
� I'm convinced there has been some MPB improvement with it too. I wish I
� had known about this stuff since puberty.

I read on wikipedia that it affects androgen levels, so it should affect sebum production and body hair as well. is your skin less oily now and body hair thinner/less dense?

I've also had facial and back acne for almost a decade now, and right now my scalp feels like an oil rig, it feels yucky - even though I shampooed it about 12 hours ago. If this B5 stuff is really good (and without sideeffects?) then I'll just get on that for the time being.

I had increased sebum production when I hit puberty. So, in my case it's probably both, alpha-I & II reductase that led to such severe baldness. :-(

Btw cal, have you seen a decrease in your pores' size?

goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein

cal

29.07.2009, 14:02

@ goata007
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� I read on wikipedia that it affects androgen levels, so it should affect
� sebum production and body hair as well. is your skin less oily now and body
� hair thinner/less dense?

Skin less oily FOR SURE. Body hair doesn't seem affected. I've always been hairy but never the wolfman.

� I've also had facial and back acne for almost a decade now, and right now
� my scalp feels like an oil rig, it feels yucky - even though I shampooed it
� about 12 hours ago. If this B5 stuff is really good (and without
� sideeffects?) then I'll just get on that for the time being.

I didn't have a lick of negative side effects. As far as I could tell it just de-oiled my skin and did nothing else at all.

� Btw cal, have you seen a decrease in your pores' size?

Yes. I usually don't bother saying this because it sounds like I'm crossing over into pure cheerleading, but I think it did happen to me.

I didn't get any bad effects from the stuff at all. So if you think it's messing you up then I would say don't wait for the problems to "die down" or anything, just quit the stuff.

I megadosed to start out. I don't recommend the extreme way that I did it, but the positive upshot of that method was I already knew it was doing something good to my skin within a couple weeks of starting.

I honestly think this issue may be a portion (I said a portion, not the whole thing) of the story if MPB & acne really are increasing these days. This acid is heavily found it all the exact kinds of vegetables that modern western diets are skimping on.

I have worse MPB than anyone else in my family and I also probably eat worse than my father and grandfathers. I really wonder how much better my situation would be right now if I'd been dosing with this stuff ever since puberty.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mj2003

Toronto,
29.07.2009, 20:39

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � I read on wikipedia that it affects androgen levels, so it should affect
� � sebum production and body hair as well. is your skin less oily now and
� body
� � hair thinner/less dense?
�
� Skin less oily FOR SURE. Body hair doesn't seem affected. I've always
� been hairy but never the wolfman.
�
�
� � I've also had facial and back acne for almost a decade now, and right
� now
� � my scalp feels like an oil rig, it feels yucky - even though I shampooed
� it
� � about 12 hours ago. If this B5 stuff is really good (and without
� � sideeffects?) then I'll just get on that for the time being.
�
� I didn't have a lick of negative side effects. As far as I could tell it
� just de-oiled my skin and did nothing else at all.
�
�
� � Btw cal, have you seen a decrease in your pores' size?
�
� Yes. I usually don't bother saying this because it sounds like I'm
� crossing over into pure cheerleading, but I think it did happen to me.
�
�
�
�
�
� I didn't get any bad effects from the stuff at all. So if you think it's
� messing you up then I would say don't wait for the problems to "die down"
� or anything, just quit the stuff.
�
� I megadosed to start out. I don't recommend the extreme way that I did
� it, but the positive upshot of that method was I already knew it was doing
� something good to my skin within a couple weeks of starting.
�
�
�
�
�
� I honestly think this issue may be a portion (I said a portion, not the
� whole thing) of the story if MPB & acne really are increasing these days.
� This acid is heavily found it all the exact kinds of vegetables that modern
� western diets are skimping on.
�
� I have worse MPB than anyone else in my family and I also probably eat
� worse than my father and grandfathers. I really wonder how much better my
� situation would be right now if I'd been dosing with this stuff ever since
� puberty.

I went to a local chain pharmacy today (yes i know but it was the closest one) but they didnt have it. I forgot the name and asked the pharmacist for a patholintic-like cream"... boy did I embarrass myself. Then I searched for Vitamin B5 capsules and didnt find any. I\ll order online.

I will give a it a shot and see what happens in a few months's time. I will frontload with it as well for the first few weeks. I know its bad for the skin but I find the only thing that works for my acne prone back and shoulders is pure hot water in the shower. I start off warm and slowly decrease the cold water until its on all hot. I do this for a few days and I see a difference of it drying away right away. But I cant imagine that being healthy for the skin and my hair (makes it frizzy). it also causes crazy itching.

Benji, good point about changing the sheets more often. I think I'm going to try showering 3 times daily and changing my shirts more often as well.

fckhrlss i was cracking up when you said you used benzoperoxide in your hair. Thats crazy man. I think nizoral saved you.

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

cal

29.07.2009, 21:17

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

Wait, pantothenic CREAM?

I never did anything topically with the stuff. I've just been talking about swallowing B5 capsules all this time.

I suppose topical use could work pretty well; they put the stuff in skin care products.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mj2003

Toronto,
29.07.2009, 23:25

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� Wait, pantothenic CREAM?
�
� I never did anything topically with the stuff. I've just been talking
� about swallowing B5 capsules all this time.
�
�
�
� I suppose topical use could work pretty well; they put the stuff in skin
� care products.

Yeh when I asked how to get it and how to use it, Pete responded "Topically".
Would it be more effective using it orally and topically?

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

cal

30.07.2009, 01:18

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

Yeah, possibly.

As I understand it (which is not very well in the big picture), the stuff is correcting an imbalance in the skin. When the skin isn't getting adequate amounts of B5 then the resulting situation is an overproduction of androgens.

So if you start throwing B5 at your system, there's probably only so much that will do you any good before the skin has reached the kind of balance that it really wants. Additional B5 may not do any further good for androgen suppression after that.

This pretty much matches my experience with taking the stuff orally. XXXX amount was working, but double XXXX wasn't working twice as well.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

goata007

30.07.2009, 02:51

@ cal
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

cal, this from wikipedia

"Leung's study gave 45 Asian males and 55 Asian females varying doses of 10-20mg of pantothenic acid (2000% of the US Daily Value), 80% orally and 20% through topical cream. Leung noted improvement of acne within one week to one month of the start of the treatment."

it seems only 20mg does the trick, you are taking 1000mg right? btw gnc has the 500mg version.

cal, did you notice any decrease in your scalp sebum & acne - if you had those? and what your age & NW status?

goata007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
"If we knew what it was that we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, would it?" - Albert Einstein

mj2003

Toronto,
30.07.2009, 03:09

@ goata007
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� cal, this from wikipedia
�
� "Leung's study gave 45 Asian males and 55 Asian females varying doses
� of 10-20mg of pantothenic acid (2000% of the US Daily Value), 80%
� orally and 20% through topical cream. Leung noted improvement of acne
� within one week to one month of the start of the treatment."
�
� it seems only 20mg does the trick, you are taking 1000mg right? btw gnc
� has the 500mg version.
�
� cal, did you notice any decrease in your scalp sebum & acne - if you had
� those? and what your age & NW status?

It seems the best way is to dose it is with large doses between 8,000mg-10,000mg in the begining and then tapering it down to 2,000mg+.

Hair loss or thining is one of the severe, but rare, side effects according to some.

http://vitaminb5acne.com/

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

cal

30.07.2009, 06:41

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

Goata007, just read my earlier posts in this thread. I got MAJOR body acne improvement from this stuff. HUGE.

As for the dosages, I can tell the difference if I stop taking the 500mg pills for a couple of days. Maybe the studies say you only need 20mg/day but my own system seems to demand more than that.

cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

30.07.2009, 16:17

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � Wait, pantothenic CREAM?
� �
� � I never did anything topically with the stuff. I've just been talking
� � about swallowing B5 capsules all this time.
� �
� �
� �
� � I suppose topical use could work pretty well; they put the stuff in
� skin
� � care products.
�
� Yeh when I asked how to get it and how to use it, Pete responded
� "Topically".
� Would it be more effective using it orally and topically?

Topically you may find Azelaic acid or even Niacinamide cream will be better.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Pete2

30.07.2009, 16:20

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � cal, this from wikipedia
� �
� � "Leung's study gave 45 Asian males and 55 Asian females varying
� doses
� � of 10-20mg of pantothenic acid (2000% of the US Daily Value), 80%
� � orally and 20% through topical cream. Leung noted improvement of acne
� � within one week to one month of the start of the treatment."
� �
� � it seems only 20mg does the trick, you are taking 1000mg right? btw gnc
� � has the 500mg version.
� �
� � cal, did you notice any decrease in your scalp sebum & acne - if you
� had
� � those? and what your age & NW status?
�
� It seems the best way is to dose it is with large doses between
� 8,000mg-10,000mg in the begining and then tapering it down to 2,000mg+.
�
� Hair loss or thining is one of the severe, but rare, side effects
� according to some.
�
� http://vitaminb5acne.com/

Wrong way round!

Start off low and then build up to a maintenace.

Start of with around 500 mg and then see how you react to it and build up. I wouldnt take more than a couple of grams day of the stuff. You dont want to over-stimulate your adrenal glands too much!

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

mj2003

Toronto,
31.07.2009, 12:22

@ Pete2
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � � cal, this from wikipedia
� � �
� � � "Leung's study gave 45 Asian males and 55 Asian females varying
� � doses
� � � of 10-20mg of pantothenic acid (2000% of the US Daily Value), 80%
� � � orally and 20% through topical cream. Leung noted improvement of acne
� � � within one week to one month of the start of the treatment."
� � �
� � � it seems only 20mg does the trick, you are taking 1000mg right? btw
� gnc
� � � has the 500mg version.
� � �
� � � cal, did you notice any decrease in your scalp sebum & acne - if you
� � had
� � � those? and what your age & NW status?
� �
� � It seems the best way is to dose it is with large doses between
� � 8,000mg-10,000mg in the begining and then tapering it down to 2,000mg+.
� �
� � Hair loss or thining is one of the severe, but rare, side effects
� � according to some.
� �
� � http://vitaminb5acne.com/
�
�
� Wrong way round!
�
� Start off low and then build up to a maintenace.
�
� Start of with around 500 mg and then see how you react to it and build up.
� I wouldnt take more than a couple of grams day of the stuff. You dont want
� to over-stimulate your adrenal glands too much!
�
�
�
�
�
� Regards
� Pete

So you're saying build up to high dose and then taper off?

mj2003 is located in TORONTO and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.
---
Dut 0.5mg daily
Nizoral 2% 2x-3x/wk
Reg. Shampoo Mornings

Pete2

31.07.2009, 14:45

@ mj2003
Cause or effect? likely cause of inflammation and fibrosis
Post reply

� � � � cal, this from wikipedia
� � � �
� � � � "Leung's study gave 45 Asian males and 55 Asian females varying
� � � doses
� � � � of 10-20mg of pantothenic acid (2000% of the US Daily Value),
� 80%
� � � � orally and 20% through topical cream. Leung noted improvement of
� acne
� � � � within one week to one month of the start of the treatment."
� � � �
� � � � it seems only 20mg does the trick, you are taking 1000mg right? btw
� � gnc
� � � � has the 500mg version.
� � � �
� � � � cal, did you notice any decrease in your scalp sebum & acne - if
� you
� � � had
� � � � those? and what your age & NW status?
� � �
� � � It seems the best way is to dose it is with large doses between
� � � 8,000mg-10,000mg in the begining and then tapering it down to
� 2,000mg+.
� � �
� � � Hair loss or thining is one of the severe, but rare, side effects
� � � according to some.
� � �
� � � http://vitaminb5acne.com/
� �
� �
� � Wrong way round!
� �
� � Start off low and then build up to a maintenace.
� �
� � Start of with around 500 mg and then see how you react to it and build
� up.
� � I wouldnt take more than a couple of grams day of the stuff. You dont
� want
� � to over-stimulate your adrenal glands too much!
� �
� �
� �
� �
� �
� � Regards
� � Pete
�
� So you're saying build up to high dose and then taper off?

Yes start at a low dosage and build upto a dosage where your notice the oiliness decreasing and then maintain that dosage and then try to reduce the dosage further. Take a B complex to balance your other B's also.

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Jacob

02.08.2009, 13:26

@ Pete2
Fibrosis and inflammation *key* to Topical success
Post reply

I just typed out the ingreds to NanoFibrin for someone else..might as well post 'em here.

Water, ascorbyl palmitate, malic acid, jojoba oil, calcium hydroxide, phenonip, Vitamin E, polysorbate 20, Vitamin A, lactic acid, resorcinol, salicylic acid, lecithin, cocoyl sulfate, sodium malate, balsam peru, petitgrain, benzoin, xanthan gum.

"Resorcinol is used to treat acne, seborrheic dermatitis, eczema, psoriasis, and other skin disorders. It is also used to treat corns, calluses, and warts.

Resorcinol works by helping to remove hard, scaly, or roughened skin."

_____________________________________

"Cosmetic properties of benzoin chapped skin

It has some great therapeutic properties and assists with poor circulation, soothing dry, chapped skin, eczema, as well as minor wounds and scar tissue.

It is particularly effective for chapped hands, chilblains and rashes and is also a good remedy for wounds and sores - especially if redness and itching is present.
General information on benzoin skin care products chapped skin

The resin from the Styrax Benzoin tree (which belongs to the Stryracaceae family) is also known as gum benzoin, luban jawi (meaning frankincense of Java), Benjamin or Styrax benzoin.

Benzoin essential oil has a sweet, warm and vanilla-like aroma and is golden brown in color, with a treacle-like viscosity. Its main constituents are benzoic acid, benzyl benzoate, benzyl alcohol, vanillin and coniferyl benzoate"

Jacob is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
Topicals: Dermatopoietin Hair Protection System
Lamas Scalp Serum
Pristeen Nanolipo-hGH

Shampoo: Bioclin Phydrium Advance
Pristeen

Other: Kerastase Biotic
Nanofibrin

ipod

02.08.2009, 19:42

@ Jacob
Fibrosis and inflammation *key* to Topical success
Post reply

Is NanoFibrin specially created for scalp fibrosis and inflammation?

btw is fibrosis and inflammation more or less the same thing?

ipod is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
NW3 -
Propecia /Saw Palmetto
Topical Spiro / Rogaine Foam (quit REMOX IV)
High does vitamin C / Lysine / Nizoral / Tea Tree Oil Shampoo

Pete2

03.08.2009, 05:07

@ Jacob
Fibrosis and inflammation *key* to Topical success
Post reply

� I just typed out the ingreds to NanoFibrin for someone else..might as well
� post 'em here.
�
� Water, ascorbyl palmitate, malic acid, jojoba oil, calcium hydroxide,
� phenonip, Vitamin E, polysorbate 20, Vitamin A, lactic acid, resorcinol,
� salicylic acid, lecithin, cocoyl sulfate, sodium malate, balsam peru,
� petitgrain, benzoin, xanthan gum.
�
� "Resorcinol is used to treat acne, seborrheic dermatitis, eczema,
� psoriasis, and other skin disorders. It is also used to treat corns,
� calluses, and warts.
�
� Resorcinol works by helping to remove hard, scaly, or roughened skin."
�

Jacob

What do you think think the main ingredients in NanoFibrin are? Vitamin A/ salicylic acid?

Regards
Pete

Pete2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

Jacob

04.08.2009, 22:10

@ Pete2
Fibrosis and inflammation *key* to Topical success
Post reply

� � I just typed out the ingreds to NanoFibrin for someone else..might as
� well
� � post 'em here.
� �
� � Water, ascorbyl palmitate, malic acid, jojoba oil, calcium hydroxide,
� � phenonip, Vitamin E, polysorbate 20, Vitamin A, lactic acid,
� resorcinol,
� � salicylic acid, lecithin, cocoyl sulfate, sodium malate, balsam peru,
� � petitgrain, benzoin, xanthan gum.
� �
� � "Resorcinol is used to treat acne, seborrheic dermatitis, eczema,
� � psoriasis, and other skin disorders. It is also used to treat corns,
� � calluses, and warts.
� �
� � Resorcinol works by helping to remove hard, scaly, or roughened skin."
� �
�
�
� Jacob
�
� What do you think think the main ingredients in NanoFibrin are? Vitamin A/
� salicylic acid?
�
�
�

Probably the Resorcinol and...it's hard to pick the next 2nd "best".

Jacob is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
Topicals: Dermatopoietin Hair Protection System
Lamas Scalp Serum
Pristeen Nanolipo-hGH

Shampoo: Bioclin Phydrium Advance
Pristeen

Other: Kerastase Biotic
Nanofibrin

Jacob

04.08.2009, 22:15

@ ipod
Fibrosis and inflammation *key* to Topical success
Post reply

� Is NanoFibrin specially created for scalp fibrosis and inflammation?
�
� btw is fibrosis and inflammation more or less the same thing?

I think it was intended mainly for the scalp..but they do say it can be used anywhere.

This may answer your second question:

"Studies and research show that moderate inflammation is more common in balding scalp and inflammation with or without fibrosis is more common in men with androgenetic alopecia vs. normal controls. This inflammation in androgenetic alopecia is seen as a mild to moderate peri-infundibular lymphohistiocytic inflammatory infiltrate. It is present in up to two thirds of biopsies but this again, is a non-specific feature that is also found in up to one-third of normal scalp biopsies. That this inflammation or fibrosis may have prognostic value for re-growth in pattern hair loss is shown by the results of a case study which documented that only 55 percent of those with vs. 77 percent of those without either fibrosis or inflammation demonstrated a response to topical minoxidil therapy."

Jacob is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO
---
Topicals: Dermatopoietin Hair Protection System
Lamas Scalp Serum
Pristeen Nanolipo-hGH

Shampoo: Bioclin Phydrium Advance
Pristeen

Other: Kerastase Biotic
Nanofibrin