TheFittest
20.10.2009, 05:15 |
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) (Hair Transplant) |
Ah, mein Freund,
I've always liked you, and I've always worried about you. One of the reasons I tell young guys – especially guys under 30, but really everyone under 35 -- that they should not get HT is because their emotional lives are so *volatile.*
When you're in your twenties, so much seems to depend on "one year," or "two years." And that's the glory and the stupidity of being young. You want change now; now is what counts. But life is surprisingly long...
...and devious. Of course I am delighted to read that you're happy; and that your HT has given you a drop of water in the hell of balding. But you know, the mathematics of young MPB is pitiless. The donor area is grimly finite. The needs of the hairline and the crown seemingly infinite.
If a young man has already lost enough hair by 25 to even think about HT, he is *extraordinarily likely* to lose a great deal more. MPB is a progressive condition, relentlessly progressive. Early HT almost never accomplishes anything but the briefest respite.
Please work hard in this happy time, helpme. Save as much money as you can for all the surgeries that are yet to come and will be required not for happiness, but to avoid disfiguration and despair.
Nothing has changed. HT is a desperate procedure. No one under 35 should ever do it, and only the rich, vain and dumb should add this unnecessary woe to their later life. I count myself among the dumb. We both went to excellent doctors; and both of us are living in a fool's paradise of "happiness" that is almost certain to end badly. I wish us both luck and I strongly advise the young men who may read this to avoid this desperate and dimwitted procedure. It merely prolongs the inevitable; and, for added insult, often makes the inevitable infinitely more bitter than it would otherwise have been.
Stark baldness is *nothing* compared to the *shaming horror* of an unnatural head.
Contact me anytime helpme007 (and anyone else) at dirtyslaundry(removethis)@hushmail.com
Best,
TheFittest
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
NeverAgain
20.10.2009, 10:43
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
I can't say I agree with you, hair transplant will work, just don't do strip and don't get greedy, most people can get by even if they are class 6.
NeverAgain is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
therapy
21.10.2009, 19:46
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps 5% of the population.
therapy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
22.10.2009, 00:33
@ therapy
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or
» satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps 5% of the
» population.
Wow.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Truthtales
22.10.2009, 16:56
@ cal
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» » I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or
» » satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps 5% of
» the
» » population.
»
Its almost hilarious that the vast majority of posters in these forums have absolutely no clue about the hair transplant realities. I ve been in the forums for almost 10 years and the real knowledge has failed to make its way to the masses and generate a basic common sense about the hair transplant realities. I still see the same things that i saw then misconceptions and wishfull thinking.
This for me is a combination of smart people who understood the realities and moved on with their lives or were driven away by "some" and propaganda from people who either make a living out of transplants or are compensated for their posts. the second group is more devoted since they have something to gain the first group tried to make n impact but have better thing to do with their lives than trying all the time to make the blind see.
Truthtales is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Redman77
22.10.2009, 21:38
@ therapy
|
5%???? |
» I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or
» satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps 5% of the
» population.
given that their are only a handful of really good and consistant docs (majority of them posting their results on this forum) i'd say that percentage is a lot higher. i saw a billboard today for some local HT doc offering $2 per graft. who knows what kind of results he is putting out.i can only imagine how many people are seeing that billboard in that busy intersection and thinking "damn for $10k i can get my hair back!"
i've also talked to people who have gotten strip and have never even heard of FUE. the fact of the matter is .....most people DO NOT RESEARCH. you give people in general too much credit when you say only %5 are horror stories. think about how many butchers are out there that you DON'T know about offering cheap rates.
Redman77 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
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Redman77
22.10.2009, 21:41
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» Ah, mein Freund,
»
» I've always liked you, and I've always worried about you. One of the
» reasons I tell young guys – especially guys under 30, but really everyone
» under 35 -- that they should not get HT is because their emotional lives
» are so *volatile.*
»
» When you're in your twenties, so much seems to depend on "one year," or
» "two years." And that's the glory and the stupidity of being young. You
» want change now; now is what counts. But life is surprisingly long...
»
» ...and devious. Of course I am delighted to read that you're happy; and
» that your HT has given you a drop of water in the hell of balding. But you
» know, the mathematics of young MPB is pitiless. The donor area is grimly
» finite. The needs of the hairline and the crown seemingly infinite.
»
» If a young man has already lost enough hair by 25 to even think about HT,
» he is *extraordinarily likely* to lose a great deal more. MPB is a
» progressive condition, relentlessly progressive. Early HT almost never
» accomplishes anything but the briefest respite.
»
» Please work hard in this happy time, helpme. Save as much money as you
» can for all the surgeries that are yet to come and will be required not for
» happiness, but to avoid disfiguration and despair.
»
» Nothing has changed. HT is a desperate procedure. No one under 35 should
» ever do it, and only the rich, vain and dumb should add this unnecessary
» woe to their later life. I count myself among the dumb. We both went to
» excellent doctors; and both of us are living in a fool's paradise of
» "happiness" that is almost certain to end badly. I wish us both luck and I
» strongly advise the young men who may read this to avoid this desperate and
» dimwitted procedure. It merely prolongs the inevitable; and, for added
» insult, often makes the inevitable infinitely more bitter than it would
» otherwise have been.
»
» Stark baldness is *nothing* compared to the *shaming horror* of an
» unnatural head.
»
» Contact me anytime helpme007 (and anyone else) at
» dirtyslaundry(removethis)@hushmail.com
»
» Best,
» TheFittest
i agree with most of what you're saying, but didnt your HT turn out great and havent you managed to control your hairloss?
Redman77 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
Maxi Hair
Mega Men Multivitamin
Fish Oils
Rogaine Foam
American Crew
Folligen Cream
Nizoral Shampoo |
therapy
22.10.2009, 23:36
@ Truthtales
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» » » I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or
» » » satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps 5%
» of
» » the
» » » population.
» »
»
» Its almost hilarious that the vast majority of posters in these forums
» have absolutely no clue about the hair transplant realities. I ve been in
» the forums for almost 10 years and the real knowledge has failed to make
» its way to the masses and generate a basic common sense about the hair
» transplant realities. I still see the same things that i saw then
» misconceptions and wishfull thinking.
»
» This for me is a combination of smart people who understood the realities
» and moved on with their lives or were driven away by "some" and propaganda
» from people who either make a living out of transplants or are compensated
» for their posts. the second group is more devoted since they have something
» to gain the first group tried to make n impact but have better thing to do
» with their lives than trying all the time to make the blind see.
Wow, speaking with such authority, the most destructive thing about these forums is that everybody is a wannabe expert for hair loss, you know those who think that they 've been here for 10 years so they must know it all blah blah.
therapy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Truthtales
23.10.2009, 03:14
@ therapy
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» » » » I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or
» » » » satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps
» 5%
» » of
» » » the
» » » » population.
» » »
» »
» » Its almost hilarious that the vast majority of posters in these forums
» » have absolutely no clue about the hair transplant realities. I ve been
» in
» » the forums for almost 10 years and the real knowledge has failed to
» make
» » its way to the masses and generate a basic common sense about the hair
» » transplant realities. I still see the same things that i saw then
» » misconceptions and wishfull thinking.
» »
» » This for me is a combination of smart people who understood the
» realities
» » and moved on with their lives or were driven away by "some" and
» propaganda
» » from people who either make a living out of transplants or are
» compensated
» » for their posts. the second group is more devoted since they have
» something
» » to gain the first group tried to make n impact but have better thing to
» do
» » with their lives than trying all the time to make the blind see.
»
» Wow, speaking with such authority, the most destructive thing about these
» forums is that everybody is a wannabe expert for hair loss, you know those
» who think that they 've been here for 10 years so they must know it all
» blah blah.
Yeah i know what you mean...but then again at least i am not authority enough to give statistics out of my a... 
Truthtales is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
windjc
23.10.2009, 04:28
@ Truthtales
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» » » I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or
» » » satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps 5%
» of
» » the
» » » population.
» »
»
» Its almost hilarious that the vast majority of posters in these forums
» have absolutely no clue about the hair transplant realities. I ve been in
» the forums for almost 10 years and the real knowledge has failed to make
» its way to the masses and generate a basic common sense about the hair
» transplant realities. I still see the same things that i saw then
» misconceptions and wishfull thinking.
»
» This for me is a combination of smart people who understood the realities
» and moved on with their lives or were driven away by "some" and propaganda
» from people who either make a living out of transplants or are compensated
» for their posts. the second group is more devoted since they have something
» to gain the first group tried to make n impact but have better thing to do
» with their lives than trying all the time to make the blind see.
Um. Maybe. But bad news spreads much much faster than good news. It only takes one or two horror stories to come to a forum and scare the bejesus out of people. But look around. On the forums, at least, its probably is 20 to 1 (5%).
I mean "The Fittest" is pretty dedicated, I'd say. How many times has he started a thread on different forums just to say what he just said in the OP? Dozens.
How many threads do successful transplants make? Usually not dozens.
A successful plastic surgery (except for lipo and breast) is normally a unnoticable one. Unnoticable to the average unfocused random person's eye, at least. People who have successful plastic surgery normally want it to stay private. So they are that much less inclined to go around to forums and rant and rave about their success. A bad hairtransplant recipient is probably going to be angry. And while you are right that alot of people do not do their research, a lot of angry people search out info online about what they are angry about.
"The Fittest" ignores the success stories around him. He, like many other angry posters, likes to predict the future for others.
None of this matters. People should be adults, do their research carefully, think about the short term and long term pros and cons and make a decision.
Then they should take responsibility for that decision.
Pretty plain and simple.
windjc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
23.10.2009, 04:28
@ Truthtales
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
I haven't been here anywhere near 10 years but I know the satisfaction rates with HTs are pretty bad.
Even among the top docs (whose success rates are MUCH, MUCH higher than the whole) there is a fair amount of dissatisfied and semi-satisfied patients. The cases on these websites are real but they are not representative. Most HTs just don't come out looking as thick/dense as these cases do. Even when we're talking about similar #s of grafts being implanted as with the showoff cases, graft survival rates are just lower and less consistent on average.
Going to a top doc is a good hedge to protect yourself from getting butchered. But its not enough to assure you the kind of picture-perfect result that gets passed around on here. Nothing is.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
windjc
23.10.2009, 04:33
@ cal
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» I haven't been here anywhere near 10 years but I know the satisfaction
» rates with HTs are pretty bad.
»
» Even among the top docs (whose success rates are MUCH, MUCH higher than
» the whole) there is a fair amount of dissatisfied and semi-satisfied
» patients. The cases on these websites are real but they are not
» representative. Most HTs just don't come out looking as thick/dense as
» these cases do. Even when we're talking about similar #s of grafts being
» implanted as with the showoff cases, graft survival rates are just lower
» and less consistent on average.
How low are they on average ? I'd be interested to know.
Any statistics out there? Because if there are not any statistics, what are we basing opinions on?
Many people have seen many people face to face with successful stories in person. Maybe many people have seen many people face to face with horror stories.
But really, unless there is some comprehensive study around somewhere how can we argue either way.
windjc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Truthtales
23.10.2009, 05:06
@ windjc
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
Actually is not the horror stories that i am afraid off is some in my opinion short term success stories that do the most damage. Its not like all transplants are bad but i strongly believe that to appreciate what a transplant can really do you have to look one on real nw6 people without the use of drugs.
and i am saying this because simply drugs effect diminish over time or weird sides might appear. The youngsters are the main problem and should know what they are getting into, i dont think a 40 year old nw5-6 who had a megasession after being bald for years will be dissapointed with having some hair instead of beiing bald.but the youngsters have different perspective and when their native hair start to dissapear maybe their transplant wont hold up as they wished it did.
Truthtales is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheFittest
23.10.2009, 08:28
@ windjc
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
windjc,
Your post is very interesting to me. I'm glad that you registered (10/23/09) at hairsite for the sole purpose of responding to my thread. You picked a winner. In a sense.--
» Um. Maybe. But bad news spreads much much faster than good news. It only
» takes one or two horror stories to come to a forum and scare the bejesus
» out of people. But look around. On the forums, at least, its probably is 20
» to 1 (5%).
Ah, but it seems that bad news doesn't spread faster than spurious rationalizations. And rationalization is what is required when one tries to dispute the cruel facts about donor limitations. MPB is a relentlessly progressive condition; hair quality worsens over time; lifelong medication is a dubious proposition and a serious imposition; HT is extremely expensive over time. All facts, all harsh. Only false rationalizations can avoid these facts. And these facts are particularly merciless when it comes to a young and desperate individual in the chair. That's *reality.*
» I mean "The Fittest" is pretty dedicated, I'd say. How many times has he
» started a thread on different forums just to say what he just said in the
» OP? Dozens.
You mean in the past, correct? b/c surely you realize that I have hardly made a dozen posts *over the last 2 years.* And "different forums?" No, you don't recall correctly. It's the *paid shills* who cover all the wretched forums -- I have only ever posted to ha*irlosshelp and hairsite. Sorry.
» How many threads do successful transplants make? Usually not dozens.
»
» A successful plastic surgery (except for lipo and breast) is normally a
» unnoticable one. Unnoticable to the average unfocused random person's eye,
» at least. People who have successful plastic surgery normally want it to
» stay private. So they are that much less inclined to go around to forums
» and rant and rave about their success. A bad hairtransplant recipient is
» probably going to be angry. And while you are right that alot of people do
» not do their research, a lot of angry people search out info online about
» what they are angry about.
I'm not "angry" about anything. I warn people, esp. young people, about the cruel mathematics of MPB. No amount of shill's verbiage can ever add one single follicle to a balding man's head. And a limited donor means one thing: there is too much ground to cover with too little hair. HT doesn't create new hair, it just shifts the other poor quality MPB-hair around on a balding man's skull. The result is often highly noticeable, esp. in bright sun, on a breezy day, in the mall parking lot. I'm sure you know what I mean.
» "The Fittest" ignores the success stories around him. He, like many other
» angry posters, likes to predict the future for others.
I ignore nothing. I have seen hundreds of HT's *in the flesh.* What I have seen has appalled me. And I am happy, not angry. But what does my supposed emotional state have to do with the reality of finite donor and relentless, progressive MPB? eh? Nothing. Readers – do not be distracted by nonsense!
» None of this matters. People should be adults, do their research
» carefully, think about the short term and long term pros and cons and make
» a decision.
What I am saying here matters a great deal. Blather about "people shd. be adults," do "research" -- meaning, I suppose, *consult the paid shills on hairloss boards* -- means nothing. Less than nothing. Consult all the shills you like. It won't increase the number of follicles in your donor area, nor decrease the ever-expanding area of one's shining, bald crown. Period.
*********
My friends. In better days I was *dedicated.* Then these wretched forums were given completely over to the shills.
The shills, the suckers, complain that I'm angry, that I've had a bad transplant. For what it's worth, and it's nearly worthless, I have an excellent transplant. So what? so what? What do *my results* have to do with *your* possible results? The answer is: jack. My (*perhaps quite temporary*) fine results mean nothing.
Never allow yourself to be suckered by the beaming shill in the 'shopped photo, or the preening shill in the slick video. Go see this surgery *in the flesh* and then come back and tell me how much you love it. See it dozens of times over many years. See it with your BDD eyes and tell me that you want HT-hair stuck on your skull. If you want it still, then be my guest. Roll those dice. But, please, if you are under 35: don't do it.
TheFittest
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
ipod
23.10.2009, 11:24
@ Redman77
|
5%???? |
» » I think statistically the vast majority of the people are happy or
» » satisfied with their HT, the horrible stories we read are perhaps 5% of
» the
» » population.
»
» given that their are only a handful of really good and consistant docs
» (majority of them posting their results on this forum) i'd say that
» percentage is a lot higher. i saw a billboard today for some local HT doc
» offering $2 per graft. who knows what kind of results he is putting out.i
» can only imagine how many people are seeing that billboard in that busy
» intersection and thinking "damn for $10k i can get my hair back!"
»
» i've also talked to people who have gotten strip and have never even heard
» of FUE. the fact of the matter is .....most people DO NOT RESEARCH. you
» give people in general too much credit when you say only %5 are horror
» stories. think about how many butchers are out there that you DON'T know
» about offering cheap rates.
If he is talking about horror stories, I say based on this and other hair loss forums, 5% is probably a fair estimate. I come to these boards for nearly 10 years the only true horror stories I can remember is Zayden, Timetested, Boomboom.
ipod is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
NW3 -
Propecia /Saw Palmetto
Topical Spiro / Rogaine Foam (quit REMOX IV)
High does vitamin C / Lysine / Nizoral / Tea Tree Oil Shampoo |
windjc
23.10.2009, 12:55
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» windjc,
»
» Your post is very interesting to me. I'm glad that you registered
» (10/23/09) at hairsite for the sole purpose of responding to my thread.
» You picked a winner. In a sense.--
»
» » Um. Maybe. But bad news spreads much much faster than good news. It
» only
» » takes one or two horror stories to come to a forum and scare the
» bejesus
» » out of people. But look around. On the forums, at least, its probably is
» 20
» » to 1 (5%).
»
» Ah, but it seems that bad news doesn't spread faster than spurious
» rationalizations. And rationalization is what is required when one tries
» to dispute the cruel facts about donor limitations. MPB is a relentlessly
» progressive condition; hair quality worsens over time; lifelong medication
» is a dubious proposition and a serious imposition; HT is extremely
» expensive over time. All facts, all harsh. Only false rationalizations
» can avoid these facts. And these facts are particularly merciless when it
» comes to a young and desperate individual in the chair. That's *reality.*
»
»
» » I mean "The Fittest" is pretty dedicated, I'd say. How many times has
» he
» » started a thread on different forums just to say what he just said in
» the
» » OP? Dozens.
»
» You mean in the past, correct? b/c surely you realize that I have hardly
» made a dozen posts *over the last 2 years.* And "different forums?" No,
» you don't recall correctly. It's the *paid shills* who cover all the
» wretched forums -- I have only ever posted to ha*irlosshelp and hairsite.
» Sorry.
»
» » How many threads do successful transplants make? Usually not dozens.
» »
» » A successful plastic surgery (except for lipo and breast) is normally a
» » unnoticable one. Unnoticable to the average unfocused random person's
» eye,
» » at least. People who have successful plastic surgery normally want it
» to
» » stay private. So they are that much less inclined to go around to
» forums
» » and rant and rave about their success. A bad hairtransplant recipient
» is
» » probably going to be angry. And while you are right that alot of people
» do
» » not do their research, a lot of angry people search out info online
» about
» » what they are angry about.
»
» I'm not "angry" about anything. I warn people, esp. young people, about
» the cruel mathematics of MPB. No amount of shill's verbiage can ever add
» one single follicle to a balding man's head. And a limited donor means one
» thing: there is too much ground to cover with too little hair. HT doesn't
» create new hair, it just shifts the other poor quality MPB-hair around on a
» balding man's skull. The result is often highly noticeable, esp. in bright
» sun, on a breezy day, in the mall parking lot. I'm sure you know what I
» mean.
»
» » "The Fittest" ignores the success stories around him. He, like many
» other
» » angry posters, likes to predict the future for others.
»
» I ignore nothing. I have seen hundreds of HT's *in the flesh.* What I
» have seen has appalled me. And I am happy, not angry. But what does my
» supposed emotional state have to do with the reality of finite donor and
» relentless, progressive MPB? eh? Nothing. Readers – do not be distracted
» by nonsense!
»
»
» » None of this matters. People should be adults, do their research
» » carefully, think about the short term and long term pros and cons and
» make
» » a decision.
»
» What I am saying here matters a great deal. Blather about "people shd. be
» adults," do "research" -- meaning, I suppose, *consult the paid shills on
» hairloss boards* -- means nothing. Less than nothing. Consult all the
» shills you like. It won't increase the number of follicles in your donor
» area, nor decrease the ever-expanding area of one's shining, bald crown.
» Period.
»
» *********
»
» My friends. In better days I was *dedicated.* Then these wretched forums
» were given completely over to the shills.
»
» The shills, the suckers, complain that I'm angry, that I've had a bad
» transplant. For what it's worth, and it's nearly worthless, I have an
» excellent transplant. So what? so what? What do *my results* have to do
» with *your* possible results? The answer is: jack. My (*perhaps quite
» temporary*) fine results mean nothing.
»
» Never allow yourself to be suckered by the beaming shill in the 'shopped
» photo, or the preening shill in the slick video. Go see this surgery *in
» the flesh* and then come back and tell me how much you love it. See it
» dozens of times over many years. See it with your BDD eyes and tell me
» that you want HT-hair stuck on your skull. If you want it still, then be
» my guest. Roll those dice. But, please, if you are under 35: don't do it.
»
»
» TheFittest
Ok, so perhaps I misunderstood you.
Perhaps if we sort through all your words you're simply saying that if someone is 36 years old or older, has had success with medications, has a large supply of donor hair, isn't the type of person that demands otherwordly results but is okay if it doesn't look "perfect" and can simply fool the vast majority of the world's population (because the level of scrutiny on a forum is certainly much much higher than the actual population who are clueless). And of course, as long as the patient realized there might be the need for future sessions and is okay with the cost.
Then if these things are true, you'd be for it. Do I have this correct?
But even if your logic is true, saying that I "bather" and that what I say means "less than nothing" while saying that what you say "it very important" doesn't make you seem like an expert. In fact, I'd argue that how you say what you say would make some more likely to ignore you all together.
Likewise, some might ignore what I said because I called you "angry". But I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. So if they ignore me so be it.
windjc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
fastforward
23.10.2009, 21:14
@ Truthtales
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» Actually is not the horror stories that i am afraid off is some in my
» opinion short term success stories that do the most damage. Its not like
» all transplants are bad but i strongly believe that to appreciate what a
» transplant can really do you have to look one on real nw6 people without
» the use of drugs.
»
» and i am saying this because simply drugs effect diminish over time or
» weird sides might appear. The youngsters are the main problem and should
» know what they are getting into, i dont think a 40 year old nw5-6 who had a
» megasession after being bald for years will be dissapointed with having
» some hair instead of beiing bald.but the youngsters have different
» perspective and when their native hair start to dissapear maybe their
» transplant wont hold up as they wished it did.
Like some poster said "DON'T GET GREEDY" , I believe hair transplant can work very well for people with modest expectations but disaster happens when guys get greedy lusting a 20 year old hairline.
fastforward is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
26 y.o with receeding hairline. Rogain foam. Stopped Propecia because of side effects. |
KO
25.10.2009, 00:50
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
»
» Stark baldness is *nothing* compared to the *shaming horror* of an
» unnatural head.
»
» Contact me anytime helpme007 (and anyone else) at
» dirtyslaundry(removethis)@hushmail.com
»
» Best,
» TheFittest
I'm new to this, so please forgive my ignorance. How is it possible to be scarred with FUE? I would think that the worst case scenario with FUE would only result in hair not growing rather than scarring.
KO is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
25.10.2009, 01:10
@ KO
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» I'm new to this, so please forgive my ignorance. How is it possible to be
» scarred with FUE? I would think that the worst case scenario with FUE would
» only result in hair not growing rather than scarring.
Do you know what a hole-saw (for an electric drill) looks like?
![[image]](http://www.jaykayguttersupply.com/images/tools/hole_saw_bit_m.jpg)
You could picture this tool to understand roughly how the FUE grafts are removed. A tiny little one of those bits pulls out a chunk of skin just large enough to include a whole follicle. This is not exactly like the process but you get the idea.
The hole it leaves behind will close up and heal fine, but not without leaving a dot-shaped scar at the location of the follicle extraction. FUE work eliminates the big long strip-scar but it trades it for thousands of little pale dot-scars.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheFittest
25.10.2009, 07:18
@ windjc
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
windjc,
» Ok, so perhaps I misunderstood you.
You did, but that's alright b/c these are complex matters.
» Perhaps if we sort through all your words you're simply saying that if
» someone is 36 years old or older, has had success with medications, has a
» large supply of donor hair, isn't the type of person that demands
» otherwordly results but is okay if it doesn't look "perfect" and can simply
» fool the vast majority of the world's population (because the level of
» scrutiny on a forum is certainly much much higher than the actual
» population who are clueless). And of course, as long as the patient
» realized there might be the need for future sessions and is okay with the
» cost.
»
» Then if these things are true, you'd be for it. Do I have this correct?
No. There is no sense in which I am "for" HT. It is a *bad surgery* for the fundamental reasons I listed above. Let us very briefly rehearse the most important negatives: 1. Finite donor. 2. Relentlessness of MPB, esp. when it begins as early in a man's life as his twenties.
Those two facts are decisive and they are unavoidably negative. Even people with *exceptionally good donor characteristics* (which, *by definition,* cannot be expected in most cases) will never have enough to restore their balding areas to anything like original density. That's why docs and shills prattle about "illusion."
Nose jobs have no need for illusion. Tit jobs are no illusion. Lipo doesn't leave one dependent on illusion. Understand this simple point.
Your little paragraph above is a perfect example of the rhetoric that sways youngsters. "Success with medications?" Can end anytime. "Large supply of donor hair?" as made clear above, *exceptional* donor density is precisely that, *exceptional,* and not only will most young MPB sufferers NOT have exceptional donor characteristics, they will have poor characteristics because the process of miniaturization has started so early. "Doesn't demand otherworldly results" Well, let's hope he doesn't demand great results b/c for all the reasons listed above, he is more than likely NOT to get them. It's precisely b/c young MPB sufferers have a recent memory of a full head of hair that they are most vulnerable to shills and docs. "Realistic expectations" is one of the most dreadful weasel phrases ever coined. Young men are NOT notorious for reasonable expectations of any kind, and if they are vain and vulnerable enough to even consider a radical and permanent procedure like HT, they are UNREALISTIC by definition. Finally, "realized there might be the need for future sessions and is OK with the cost." No one "realizes" the dreadful practical and financial burden of HT until they find themselves shellshocked sitting in that doctor's chair *yet again.* MPB is a relentlessly progressive disorder that worsens with age and further procedures are a virtual certainty if a young man is rash enough to begin this *extremely expensive* and time consuming process. And all this for an *illusion?*
**************
I regret calling your post "blather." You are an intelligent person and you attempt to write clearly. But -- words are easy, facts are hard. I have often found that the most intelligent guys are the last to accept these dreadful facts because these guys are so skillful at rationalization. But alas facility with words and phrases doesn't add follicles to one's donor nor dollars to one's pocket nor will it assuage the worst of all emotions after a terrible mistake has been made: regret.
I have written very extensively on these topics in the past. I don't have the time or inclination to do so any longer. Luckily my writing is available to anyone: do an author search under "TheFittest" on ha*irlosshelp and read closely. I did not write those posts for fun.
TheFittest
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
25.10.2009, 20:13
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
I think the true extent of a given person's donor supply is pretty simple. There is so much overthinking and over-science-ing but the issue is right there in front of us all. You can take one look at a guy's head and mentally estimate what his remaining hair would look like if you spread it all out to cover his balding area too.
That's all a HT really is. If your knee-jerk common sense reaction doesn't think that a HT will work for a given situation, then it probably won't.
Throw in future loss, throw in some donor thinning (THIS IS REAL AND IT IS COMMON), and the picture gets pretty bad.
Another thing - in the best-case scenario you might get most of those moved grafts to survive, but I honestly think the percentages are way lower than the industry commonly preaches. (Maybe 60-70% average and 80%+ on a very good case?)
We have reached a commonly understood estimation of what ______ grafts is supposed to look like. But what is that based on? Nobody is counting grafts as far as I know of. EVERYTHING is basically still referenced against other previous HTs. If we have formed our original ideas about what ______ grafts is supposed to look like based on an image of much less than that, then what is ever going to correct that misconception if nobody ever achieves better?
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
windjc
26.10.2009, 14:37
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
»
» No. There is no sense in which I am "for" HT. It is a *bad surgery* for
» the fundamental reasons I listed above.
Then you are a blatant hyprocrite. Why on earth did you get a HT? That's insanity.
» Even
» people with *exceptionally good donor characteristics* (which, *by
» definition,* cannot be expected in most cases) will never have enough to
» restore their balding areas to anything like original density. That's why
» docs and shills prattle about "illusion."
Two questions. What in your opinion is good donor characteristics? And what's wrong with "illusion"? Push up bras create clevage that gives the illusion of big breasts. Sometimes removing the shirt is a different story, but the population sees the illusion. A news anchor gets a HT to give the illusion of a low hairline. In person it might not look perfectly natural, but on TV the masses think he looks like every other TV announcer in the world. A successful illusion. An actor has lipo to lose weight. They might gain it back next year, but right now they look skinny for their film. An illusion? Sure, if temporary means illusion.
» Tit jobs are no illusion. Lipo
» doesn't leave one dependent on illusion. Understand this simple point.
See above.
» It's precisely b/c young MPB sufferers have a
» recent memory of a full head of hair that they are most vulnerable to
» shills and docs. "Realistic expectations" is one of the most dreadful
» weasel phrases ever coined. Young men are NOT notorious for reasonable
» expectations of any kind, and if they are vain and vulnerable enough to
» even consider a radical and permanent procedure like HT, they are
» UNREALISTIC by definition.
You give other people no credit. Not everyone is a sheeple. Many of us think very well for ourselves and to think you know whats better for most others than they know what is best for themselves is the highest pompousness.
» Finally, "realized there might be the need for future sessions and is OK »with the cost." No one "realizes" the dreadful
» practical and financial burden of HT until they find themselves
» shellshocked sitting in that doctor's chair *yet again.*
ORLY? So even though a person knows the costs of grafts and the likelyhood of a future surgery it won't hit them until they are in the docs chair again? And then it will be shellshock. That sir, is laughable.
»
» **************
» I have written very extensively on these topics in the past.
Maybe you should stop. You insult people.
»
»
» TheFittest
windjc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheFittest
27.10.2009, 00:10
@ windjc
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» Then you are a blatant hypoccrite. Why on earth did you get a HT? That's
» insanity.
Nope. Like almost everyone, I *knew nothing* before I started HT. I relied on pictures. I learned the truth about HT from the only school that matters: the hard school of *experience.*
» Two questions. What in your opinion is good donor characteristics?
Excellent hair characteristics are exceedingly rare. A person like this has extraordinary donor/follicular density, many 3-4 hair groups, wavy, coarse hair, and very little color differential between skin and hair. Further. He is over 40 and has little if any family history of hairloss, his current hairloss has been stable for at least 10 years, and is limited to a NW4 or high-sides NW5 at worst. He is wealthy and has plenty of free time.
» what's wrong with "illusion"? Push up bras create cleavage that gives the
» illusion of big breasts.
The eye is cruel. The eye is pitiless. The "illusion" of HT very often fails in daylight. Most people are simply too polite to tell the unfortunate victim. But over drinks at the Xmas party, well, that may be a very different story.
In short, the "illusion" of HT is a "delusion." Guys with HT-hairlines and big bald crowns, denuded temple points, etc., look terrible. That's the harsh truth. Since MPB is relentlessly progressive, the "illusion" becomes more threadbare as time passes. Then, suddenly, there is nothing but *the awful reality.*
» You give other people no credit. Not everyone is a sheeple. Many of us
» think very well for ourselves and to think you know whats better for most
» others than they know what is best for themselves is the highest
» pompousness.
I give other people every credit -- when they have the necessary *experience* and crucial information. HT is not about "thinking very well." It's about being *desperate* for a solution to baldness, even when that "solution" has such obvious flaws as HT. Like I said, there is no one better than the intelligent young guy ---when it comes to rationalization.
» Maybe you should stop. You insult people.
I insult no one. You insult the ignorant when you pretend they don't require the wisdom of the experienced. I am no better than anyone else, but I do have a great deal of experience. I have had many operations and have *seen hundreds of HT in the flesh.* That's the whole point. Please omit personal invective from any further replies b/c it's meaningless here.
No one can refute the arguments I've made about the miserably finite nature of the donor area and the stark differences between our dreams of HT and the realities of HT. Let us dwell on those harsh facts and make our decisions w/o emotion or rationalization.
TheFittest
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
windjc
27.10.2009, 03:40
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» » Then you are a blatant hypoccrite. Why on earth did you get a HT? That's
» » insanity.
»
» Nope. Like almost everyone, I *knew nothing* before I started HT. I
» relied on pictures. I learned the truth about HT from the only school that
» matters: the hard school of *experience.*
Fair enough. But you like your HT. So the actual experience wasn't that "hard" for you.
I went back like you suggested to me and read a varied sample of your forum posts on the two online forums over the last 5 years. After reading your posts, I would suggest you are an extremist when it comes to judging HTs. While most people get their transplants and go on with their life, you have spent literally 1000's of hours both reading/writing on HT forums and questing after HT recepients so that you can look at their HTs. You have made an incredible effort of time and energy to do this.
This goes beyond curiosity. I would suggest it has been a compulsion of yours. In fact the posts you write now are similar in tone and text to the ones you wrote 4 years ago.
»
»
» » Two questions. What in your opinion is good donor characteristics?
»
» Excellent hair characteristics are exceedingly rare. A person like this
» has extraordinary donor/follicular density, many 3-4 hair groups, wavy,
» coarse hair, and very little color differential between skin and hair.
» Further. He is over 40 and has little if any family history of hairloss,
» his current hairloss has been stable for at least 10 years, and is limited
» to a NW4 or high-sides NW5 at worst. He is wealthy and has plenty of free
» time.
»
» » what's wrong with "illusion"? Push up bras create cleavage that gives
» the
» » illusion of big breasts.
»
» The eye is cruel. The eye is pitiless. The "illusion" of HT very often
» fails in daylight. Most people are simply too polite to tell the
» unfortunate victim. But over drinks at the Xmas party, well, that may be a
» very different story.
I suggest "the eye" isn't pitiless. I suggest "your eye" is pitiless. Here is where you and I differ in opinion tremendously. I suggest that you have become hyper-aware of transplants because of an incredible desire to look at them and judge them in their entirety.
I don't think most people in the world have a clue about transplants. I'll use myself as an example. I have read these forums off and on for 8 years. I have looked at my fair share of HT pics, etc. And I didn't even realize that my personal trainer had had a HT until he mentioned to me 4 months into training. My personal trainer is a NW6 who had a mere 1000 grafts put over his crown and region 2. His transplanted hairs stand pretty much straight up. And while he probably had most grafts grow, you can only imagine how thin the coverage is.
But I didn't even notice.
And here's another kicker. He's happy as a lark about them. He got a "deal" at $2 or $3 a grafts, says if he ever has more money he'll go get more. But hes so pleased that he actually brought it up out of the blue.
So, either I'm an idiot for not noticing, he's an idiot for liking his HT, or you are an extremist in your judgement of HTs.
»
» In short, the "illusion" of HT is a "delusion." Guys with HT-hairlines
» and big bald crowns, denuded temple points, etc., look terrible. That's
» the harsh truth. Since MPB is relentlessly progressive, the "illusion"
» becomes more threadbare as time passes. Then, suddenly, there is nothing
» but *the awful reality.*
Who says they look terrible? YOU say they look terrible. But, mein Frueund, it doesn't matter what you think. Or what the office person at the Christmas party thinks, or what the 19 year old retail assistant at Victoria Secrets thinks. It ONLY matters what the recipient thinks.
Who the *&^* cares what anyone else thinks? You shouldn't and neither should anyone getting a transplant.
»
»
» » You give other people no credit. Not everyone is a sheeple. Many of us
» » think very well for ourselves and to think you know whats better for
» most
» » others than they know what is best for themselves is the highest
» » pompousness.
»
» I give other people every credit -- when they have the necessary
» *experience* and crucial information. HT is not about "thinking very
» well." It's about being *desperate* for a solution to baldness, even when
» that "solution" has such obvious flaws as HT. Like I said, there is no one
» better than the intelligent young guy ---when it comes to rationalization.
»
Which is more desperate? A 30 yr. old who is willing to risk potential diffuse thinning from hairline to nape 10-15 years from now for a dense hairline today, or someone who spent 1000's of hours interviewing HT recipients after his HT, of which he had 3 or 4? I would suggest that the latter may in fact be more desperate.
»
»
» No one can refute the arguments I've made about the miserably finite
» nature of the donor area and the stark differences between our dreams of HT
» and the realities of HT. Let us dwell on those harsh facts and make our
» decisions w/o emotion or rationalization.
»
Sure one can easily refute your arguments, because they are fraught with worse case scenarios. Just because you've spent 1000s of hours personally interviewing 100s of HT recipients from a handful of North Eastern US HT doctors, doesn't make you an expert on any of the following:
1. Exact chances anyone receiving a transplant will need (or want) another.
2. How much donor hair any one particular person has.
3. Quality of work that any one HT recipient will receive and how their body will respond to surgery.
4. Happiness and contentment with HT any one recipient will have.
5. Anyone's emotional stability and expectations.
Your opinions may be true some of the time for some people. They are absolutely not true of all of the people all of the time. And that IS irrefutable.
»
»
» TheFittest
windjc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheFittest
27.10.2009, 04:21
@ windjc
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
windjc,
Your posts are too concerned with "TheFittest" and not sufficiently concerned with the risks and realities of HT.
I gave you a thorough description of what counts as *exceptional hair characteristics.* Have you understood what I've written? It is *very rare indeed* to find oneself in the sweet spot for HT.
Donor limitations make HT a very risky and all-too-frequently unsatisfying surgery. Nothing anyone says can change that.
You'll notice that I haven't asked why *you* are so passionate -- I haven't made this about you. Because it isn't. The realities of HT, the lessons of HT, are not to be extrapolated from individual cases.
MPB is a relentlessly progressive disorder. Donor hair quality diminishes over time. When guys in their twenties already have MPB of sufficient severity to consider HT, they are by definition in a bad place as far as HT is concerned. They will need many grafts and many surgeries for even a mediocre result.
HT-hair is forever. I understand the frustration with MPB and the lack of solutions. I understand the reliance on words to convince oneself that HT can work. But words are easy and facts are hard.
It doesn't require 1000's of hours to find out the truth about HT. Here is what I suggest: see at least 12 finished HT's on guys who have roughly similar NW level and hair characteristics to yourself. Forget pictures and videos. When you've seen these HT's in broad, bright, windy daylight, then you'll know a great deal more about them.
If you still want HT after you see the reality of HT in the flesh, then that is your decision. Try to keep a clear mind, and remember what I have written here and elsewhere.
Best,
TheFittest
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
27.10.2009, 12:48
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
I think this brouhaha can all be boiled down to a few very short recommendations:
-- See HTs in the flesh, forget about trying to do any serious judging by pics. (If you have any doubt of this, then just think back to that ulgy cow you met last spring after seeing her misleading profile pics online.)
-- Don't assume any amount of medications will buy you more than a decade of putting off the problem. A decade at best.
-- You will need future surgeries = you must actually pay the full price for those future surgeries. This isn't complicated.
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
thincity2
28.10.2009, 07:23
@ cal
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
I rarely post here, but do read often. I must agree with just about everything that the Fittest has posted. Not to take away from his post, I will give brief background on myself. I am 47, had several "mini-graft" transplants in early 90's in the crown. Now at the time, I had thick hair in donor, and little loss in the front or vertex. Jump forward to now. I am a diffuse NW6, still pretty good donor although the hairs themselves are thinner, all native hair around the "mini-grafts" are gone. It's not pretty, the grafts are pluggy, badly misangled, and nice pitting to add to the view.
The Fittest is correct, you will need several transplants, just to keep up. You better have the funds, it's not cheap. In my case, I have a family, both my children are in college, and I cannot afford to get the mess fixed. You can't say sorry kids, you can't go to college so Dad can fix a rash/poor decision he made. The young men today have the benefit of the internet, better and (mostly more ethical Doctors) and someone willing to play the devils advocate. It's a hard and emotonal time being early twenties and losing your hair, don't make uneducated choices. I can't even shave my head due to the railroad crossing scars on the back of my head.
I'm in the public view every day with no hat, I have to live with my bad choice (and the stares). If you are in the guidelines laid down by the Fittest, and have seen transplants in person and you choose a good reputable Doctor, I'd say go for it. If not, shave or buzz down and be thankful you don't have to be in my shoes.
thincity2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
therapy
28.10.2009, 13:36
@ Truthtales
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» Yeah i know what you mean...but then again at least i am not authority
» enough to give statistics out of my a...
If only you could "read", when I said 5% I was referring to horrible cases, I wasnt referring to situations where people whined about their hairlines not thick enough or they wish they had FUE instead etc etc, 5% is an educated guess for butchered cases and I don't think that is too far off.
therapy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
cal
28.10.2009, 17:23
@ therapy
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
»
» If only you could "read", when I said 5% I was referring to horrible
» cases, I wasnt referring to situations where people whined about their
» hairlines not thick enough or they wish they had FUE instead etc etc, 5%
» is an educated guess for butchered cases and I don't think that is too far
» off.
No, that's just it. I think even the BAD cases are much more than 5% of the total.
Of course the numbers are much smaller with the top docs than the hair mills. But I still don't think you have a 95% chance of not being pissed off even with the top two dozen clinics.
The top guys don't butcher people on purpose, but patients do come out of there with a result that is clearly subpar growth on a regular basis. I would define that as within range of being "butchered" when you spent several thousand grafts and you don't really end up looking visually better 1-2 years after the transplant than you did before it.
There are a few certain clinics where I would expect a 95% chance of getting a major improvement in appearance after 1-2 years. Only a very few of them.
At this point I guess it becomes an issue of how we each define "butchered" and how many clinics are in our idea of the "top group."
cal is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
therapy
28.10.2009, 20:37
@ cal
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» »
» » If only you could "read", when I said 5% I was referring to horrible
» » cases, I wasnt referring to situations where people whined about their
» » hairlines not thick enough or they wish they had FUE instead etc etc,
» 5%
» » is an educated guess for butchered cases and I don't think that is too
» far
» » off.
»
» No, that's just it. I think even the BAD cases are much more than 5% of
» the total.
»
»
»
»
» Of course the numbers are much smaller with the top docs than the hair
» mills. But I still don't think you have a 95% chance of not being pissed
» off even with the top two dozen clinics.
»
» The top guys don't butcher people on purpose, but patients do come out of
» there with a result that is clearly subpar growth on a regular basis. I
» would define that as within range of being "butchered" when you spent
» several thousand grafts and you don't really end up looking visually better
» 1-2 years after the transplant than you did before it.
»
» There are a few certain clinics where I would expect a 95% chance of
» getting a major improvement in appearance after 1-2 years. Only a very few
» of them.
»
»
»
»
» At this point I guess it becomes an issue of how we each define
» "butchered" and how many clinics are in our idea of the "top group."
This debate is pointless unless we come to an agreement as to how "horrible stories" or "butchered" should be defined, to me getting butchered is when it is almost beyond repair and your life is literally ruined, Zayden comes to mind. I have seen a lot of bad or subpar HT work in the forum but the large majority can be fixed in 1 or 2 sessions, I do not consider these as horrible stories or lives ruined.
therapy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheFittest
29.10.2009, 23:05
@ thincity2
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» you will need several transplants, just to keep
» up. You better have the funds, it's not cheap. In my case, I have a family,
» both my children are in college, and I cannot afford to get the mess fixed.
» You can't say sorry kids, you can't go to college so Dad can fix a
» rash/poor decision he made. The young men today have the benefit of the
» internet, better and (mostly more ethical Doctors) and someone willing to
» play the devils advocate. It's a hard and emotonal time being early
» twenties and losing your hair, don't make uneducated choices. I can't even
» shave my head due to the railroad crossing scars on the back of my head.
» I'm in the public view every day with no hat, I have to live with my bad
» choice (and the stares).
thincity2,
Thank you so much for posting in this thread. You've achieved some of the most important, meaningful and best things in life *despite* the burden of bad HT. Two kids in college! I don't envy you, but I applaud you.  It takes courage to bounce back from a mistake and say: I will live my life.
I think your testimony here is precious, esp. for the young guys reading silently. The salesmen will claim that disasters like yours are "a thing of the past," but we know better. The fundamental limits of HT remain. Safe and effective cloning has not arrived and is not on the horizon. We deal with finite donor: and therefore the severely balding will need more grafts than they can possibly get. And that's that.
On the subject of repair. Maybe you can call around to some of the better docs and tell them your situation. Some of these docs do pro bono repair work. It's worth a shot.
Thank you again for the most valuable kind of post there is: the one that speaks from knowledge, and sadly, in your case, bitter experience. I wish you the best from the bottom of my heart. Contact me any time.
Yours,
TheFittest
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
topcat611
30.10.2009, 07:20
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
Yes, most of these guys don't know what ther are getting themselves into. They don't understand that if their thinnng and baldness bothers them that much now, their potetial disfigurement will make them feel 100 times worse. Don't think it can't happen. All one has to do is look at all the bad plastic surgery that comes out of Hollywood. It's a big roll of the dice.
There are plenty of butchered patients out there. They don't all post on these forums. Many of the ones that do, have come and gone. My estimate of happy patients is 10%. Nobody has to agree with this, but that is what I beieve when I look at the numbers.
Thankfully BHR has offered me some pro bono work. I know that I am really limited, but hopefully they can improve this mess.
There are some caring and honest clinics out there. They are just hard to find. Don't believe the hype.
topcat611 has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
topcat611 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO ---
I recently won a pro bono offer for repair work with BHR. I will keep everyone updated on my progess after the procedure.
I am not a HT doctor, I am a HT victim.
http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/19-Topcat611
http://hairtransplantrepair.blogspot.com/ |
thincity2
30.10.2009, 10:07
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
Hi Fittest, I'm hoping in two years to have the funding available to get repaired. I have had two repair consults in the last year and half. One was with Dr. Wolf in Cincinnati, I found him to be sincere and honest, something that was refreshing. I also had one with Dr. Cole in Atlanta, I posted my expirence with that on this site. I cannot judge Dr. Cole as he was unable to see me personally. His consultant (I think Johnnie was his name) was very knowledgable, but the point of traveling to Atlanta was for Dr. Cole to look at the damage first hand. I did make it clear to both clinics that I would not be in a position to do anything until late 2011. Both recommended 1800-2000 FUE grafts. However, Ive lost more hair on top, so that may estimate may change. My scars while quite numerous, thankfully are thin, but in such a pattern that it looks like Freddy Kruger took a swipe at me.
As far as my plan to fix this, I plan on a consult with Shapiro Medicial in the future. I still have Dr. Cole on my list as he has done some great repair work.
A few months ago I was in a three day class and a very NW 6 with a shaved head was sitting in front me. I was shocked to see in my estimate about 1000 fue scars in the "safe" zone. They looked to be 1mm punch size and each and everyone was highly noticible. His top was shaved down and at least you couldn't see any recipent scarring. I wondered when got those done if he expected to continue to a NW6?
I try not to be bitter as it only makes it worse, but sometimes when I get stares, it's really demoralizing. I think you being as I called the "devils advocate" is great. I wonder how many of these younger men will even pause to reconsider though. I just remember I was in such a panic and swallowed, hook, line and sinker the sales pitch from the consultant at "Chambers Hair Insitute"
Do I still think transplants are good? Yes, under the conditions you stated at the begining of this thread. I also think that anyone getting one has to have the right expectation of what you will get. Most younger patients want a wall of hair, where someone at my age will be very happy for a high hairline and some coverage. Please keep up your efforts, I think some posters think you are anti-transplant, but I feel you are not. You just want those considering one, carefully weigh the facts.
thincity2 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
john35
01.11.2009, 20:28
@ windjc
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» None of this matters. People should be adults, do their research
» carefully, think about the short term and long term pros and cons and make
» a decision.
»
» Then they should take responsibility for that decision.
»
» Pretty plain and simple.
It matters to me.
I read your post and point of view too.So, providing that the concepts and policies in effect in the HT Industry at the present time are presumed to be good policies and concepts; the value which is accepted at present time is presumed to be a good value; and that which is to assumed to be a fact at the present time is presumed to be true, would it matter then, to you, if good and sufficient reason can be given for changing it? If none of this matters, as you say, would giving you a reason why those above are not what they are presumed to be, matter? Do you think that presuming that this status quo in HT industry is ok, means that the present policy is the best possible policy, or even that it is a good policy. Or, that merely dictates that the present policy is the established policy and that it will continue in effect until is changed, maybe because, good and sufficient reason is given for changing it? Good or bad, the existing policy is the status quo. It will continue in effect until those who believe it is bad can show good and sufficient reason for changing it .I ask you here now, would you like to HEAR good and sufficient reason why it should be changed? As you have it in your power, with your eloquent persuasion, to do the service to posters, members and viewers, I implore you not to clip the wings of writers here so closely, like you are the ultimate authority on what reasonable liberty permits man here to say. For that there is a Moderator. You are not a moderator.. People buy what they choose. People have brains, let them decide is something worth reading ..Research you say? The due diligence of research? Well the Fittest gives very good data to be researched.
I have honestly sought, with all the attention of which I am capable, to gain some definite idea from opinions of members here with different views upon Hair Transplant, and the result of all my researches is NOT done. Why are you sabotaging my research when you chase out people with different opinion then yours? When on the other hand you implore people to do research? What is research? I want to get deeper into what the Fittest is writing about. I think I'd like to research it.
john35 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Truthtales
02.11.2009, 07:52
@ john35
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
»
» It matters to me.
»
» I read your post and point of view too.So, providing that the concepts and
» policies in effect in the HT Industry at the present time are presumed to
» be good policies and concepts; the value which is accepted at present time
» is presumed to be a good value; and that which is to assumed to be a fact
» at the present time is presumed to be true, would it matter then, to
» you, if good and sufficient reason can be given for changing it? If
» none of this matters, as you say, would giving you a reason why those above
» are not what they are presumed to be, matter? Do you think that presuming
» that this status quo in HT industry is ok, means that the present policy is
» the best possible policy, or even that it is a good policy. Or, that
» merely dictates that the present policy is the established policy and that
» it will continue in effect until is changed, maybe because, good and
» sufficient reason is given for changing it? Good or bad, the existing
» policy is the status quo. It will continue in effect until those who
» believe it is bad can show good and sufficient reason for changing it .I
» ask you here now, would you like to HEAR good and sufficient reason why it
» should be changed? As you have it in your power, with your eloquent
» persuasion, to do the service to posters, members and viewers, I implore
» you not to clip the wings of writers here so closely, like you are the
» ultimate authority on what reasonable liberty permits man here to say. For
» that there is a Moderator. You are not a moderator.. People buy what they
» choose. People have brains, let them decide is something worth reading
» ..Research you say? The due diligence of research? Well the Fittest gives
» very good data to be researched.
» I have honestly sought, with all the attention of which I am capable, to
» gain some definite idea from opinions of members here with different views
» upon Hair Transplant, and the result of all my researches is NOT done. Why
» are you sabotaging my research when you chase out people with different
» opinion then yours? When on the other hand you implore people to do
» research? What is research? I want to get deeper into what the Fittest is
» writing about. I think I'd like to research it.
John honestly i agree with what you write...but i got a headache from reading this 
Truthtales is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
john35
02.11.2009, 16:30
@ Truthtales
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
» John honestly i agree with what you write...but i got a headache from
» reading this
Sorry, English is not my mother language. But, if you agree with me then you understood me. When he says to us do research,he shouldn’t in the same time try to silence opinion outlets.
john35 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
TheFittest
12.11.2009, 07:02
@ thincity2
|
thincity, please check your email. n/t |
n/t
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Skywalker
The Corridor of Uncertainty,
12.11.2009, 08:01
@ TheFittest
|
thincity, please check your email. n/t |
"But bad news spreads much much faster than good news."
I disagree completely, good news is in the majority here. Bad news is the majority in newspapers because it sells more papers and so is more profitable. Here there is no financial incentive for anybody to promote doing nothing and not having an HT - but there are plenty of shills promoting HT's and skewed galleries showing the very best results trying to persuade people to "go for it" and part with thousands of dollars. It's the usual situation - follow the money.
For people 30+ with money who have done their research and have REALISTIC expectations and have good donor chararcteristics and are aware of the risks an HT can be a sound option - in my opinion.
I would also add that in my view TheFittest, is, as he has always been, a very welcome and knowledgeable reality check to people thinking about an HT.
Skywalker is located in THE CORRIDOR OF UNCERTAINTY and he is available to meet: NO |
hairtech_
Minneapolis,MN,
12.11.2009, 19:39
@ Skywalker
|
thincity, please check your email. n/t |
well said Skywalker.
hairtech_ is located in MINNEAPOLIS,MN and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hairtech
Shapiro Medical Group |
Skywalker
The Corridor of Uncertainty,
13.11.2009, 08:50
@ hairtech_
|
thincity, please check your email. n/t |
Good to see you Hairtech, I hope things are going well for you.
Skywalker is located in THE CORRIDOR OF UNCERTAINTY and he is available to meet: NO |
helpme007
13.11.2009, 10:05
@ TheFittest
|
Answer to TheFittest |
Hi Fittest,
You know that I knew the risks good enough. Now I have done it and that is unchangeble. I take fin and minox to avoid more hair loss, but its sure, that they may stop working sometime. Ok, I don't know how I will look at 40 in terms of hair. Maybe bad.
Anyway, my hair transplant isn't growing very fast and I dont know how it will look at the end. But it changed much in my life, because I wanted that it would change much in my life. Its a self-fullfilling prophecy.
It changed myself so much, that whatever comes, i know that I will be able to handle it. I don't know what I will do exactly when I lose more hair. But there will be a solution to stay happy.
I'm not afraid of what may happen in 10,20 years. I don't think there is any risk to my happiness. I'm emotional not that *volatile* anymore. I'm 25, not 17. There is a big difference. And its more ok to have hairloss at 25 than at 17. Don't always think guys at 25 are stupid. We are not.
helpme007 has 3 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
helpme007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
ernst
13.11.2009, 11:09
@ helpme007
|
Answer to TheFittest |
» Hi Fittest,
»
» You know that I knew the risks good enough. Now I have done it and that is
» unchangeble. I take fin and minox to avoid more hair loss, but its sure,
» that they may stop working sometime. Ok, I don't know how I will look at 40
» in terms of hair. Maybe bad.
»
» Anyway, my hair transplant isn't growing very fast and I dont know how it
» will look at the end. But it changed much in my life, because I wanted that
» it would change much in my life. Its a self-fullfilling prophecy.
»
» It changed myself so much, that whatever comes, i know that I will be able
» to handle it. I don't know what I will do exactly when I lose more hair.
» But there will be a solution to stay happy.
»
» I'm not afraid of what may happen in 10,20 years. I don't think there is
» any risk to my happiness. I'm emotional not that *volatile* anymore. I'm
» 25, not 17. There is a big difference. And its more ok to have hairloss at
» 25 than at 17. Don't always think guys at 25 are stupid. We are not.
Hi, helpme007,
congratulations to this answer. That just right on the point and also my opinion. As you are taking Minoxidil and Finasterid, they will make the lost of hair much slower, than without them. You are just right, when you say, it is not the most interesting, what will be in 20 years. There will be also an answer to find, when this time has come. But now is your life where you are young and want to compete with the other young in many many ways, also regarding the girls. Therefor it is the right decision. But anyone has to decide for himself. If there are other guys, for whom there appearance isn't important, they can decide their way. I have started my first HT at the age of 44. But the reason was, that HT's 10 or 20 years ago weren't so high developed as now and the results that time weren't natural enough. Otherwise I would not have waited until I was NW 5.
ernst has 1 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
ernst is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
helpme007
13.11.2009, 14:50
@ ernst
|
Answer to TheFittest |
» » Hi Fittest,
» »
» » You know that I knew the risks good enough. Now I have done it and that
» is
» » unchangeble. I take fin and minox to avoid more hair loss, but its
» sure,
» » that they may stop working sometime. Ok, I don't know how I will look at
» 40
» » in terms of hair. Maybe bad.
» »
» » Anyway, my hair transplant isn't growing very fast and I dont know how
» it
» » will look at the end. But it changed much in my life, because I wanted
» that
» » it would change much in my life. Its a self-fullfilling prophecy.
» »
» » It changed myself so much, that whatever comes, i know that I will be
» able
» » to handle it. I don't know what I will do exactly when I lose more
» hair.
» » But there will be a solution to stay happy.
» »
» » I'm not afraid of what may happen in 10,20 years. I don't think there
» is
» » any risk to my happiness. I'm emotional not that *volatile* anymore.
» I'm
» » 25, not 17. There is a big difference. And its more ok to have hairloss
» at
» » 25 than at 17. Don't always think guys at 25 are stupid. We are not.
»
» Hi, helpme007,
» congratulations to this answer. That just right on the point and also my
» opinion. As you are taking Minoxidil and Finasterid, they will make the
» lost of hair much slower, than without them. You are just right, when you
» say, it is not the most interesting, what will be in 20 years. There will
» be also an answer to find, when this time has come. But now is your life
» where you are young and want to compete with the other young in many many
» ways, also regarding the girls. Therefor it is the right decision. But
» anyone has to decide for himself. If there are other guys, for whom there
» appearance isn't important, they can decide their way. I have started my
» first HT at the age of 44. But the reason was, that HT's 10 or 20 years ago
» weren't so high developed as now and the results that time weren't natural
» enough. Otherwise I would not have waited until I was NW 5.
hi ernst,
thank you for your nice answer!
helpme007 has 3 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
helpme007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
slashed
13.11.2009, 21:03
@ helpme007
|
Answer to TheFittest |
» Hi Fittest,
»
» You know that I knew the risks good enough. Now I have done it and that is
» unchangeble. I take fin and minox to avoid more hair loss, but its sure,
» that they may stop working sometime. Ok, I don't know how I will look at 40
» in terms of hair. Maybe bad.
»
» Anyway, my hair transplant isn't growing very fast and I dont know how it
» will look at the end. But it changed much in my life, because I wanted that
» it would change much in my life. Its a self-fullfilling prophecy.
»
» It changed myself so much, that whatever comes, i know that I will be able
» to handle it. I don't know what I will do exactly when I lose more hair.
» But there will be a solution to stay happy.
»
» I'm not afraid of what may happen in 10,20 years. I don't think there is
» any risk to my happiness. I'm emotional not that *volatile* anymore. I'm
» 25, not 17. There is a big difference. And its more ok to have hairloss at
» 25 than at 17. Don't always think guys at 25 are stupid. We are not.
I don't think anyone can tell you whether hair transplant is suitable for you or not, ultimately it's your own decision what makes you happy, you do it for yourself, you don't do it to make others happy. As long as you have done your homework and are fully aware what is the worst that could happen (maybe not now but 10, 20 years in the future), then I think people ought to respect your decision.
slashed is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
hairtech_
Minneapolis,MN,
13.11.2009, 21:55
@ helpme007
|
Answer to TheFittest |
nice post slashed... this makes sense.
hairtech_ is located in MINNEAPOLIS,MN and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hairtech
Shapiro Medical Group |
TheFittest
14.11.2009, 01:02
@ helpme007
|
Answer to TheFittest |
Hey helpme007,
» Don't always think guys at 25 are stupid. We are not.
I don't think that at all! Rather the opposite, as I've tried to make clear at various points in this thread. It's *precisely* the smartest guys who are most vulnerable to the siren song of HT.
The smart guys can rationalize; the smart guys can sling words. Guys like yourself and windjc are the opposite of stupid. But that doesn't mean you are *wise* -- which is something very different. Wisdom, alas, only arrives with time and experience. And often not even then. Our regrets are great teachers; our mistakes are stern taskmasters. Wish it could be otherwise, but youth will have its way.
I realize that 17 and 25 are very different things. And I believe you when you say that you're less volatile now. You certainly are. And I understand that you felt you *had to do something* to change yourself, to attain some peace of mind and spirit. I understand and sympathize.
Don't worry about your HT. HT is rarely about growing "fast." I once wrote a post: Don't rush the timelines on HT. Maybe you can find it on the other site and it will ease your mind. Your HT will come in fine. As always, it's the longer term risks I'm worried about. But you know the facts, as you say.
Thank you for a rational and civil response to my post. But smart young lurkers and fencesitters should try and understand my point about smart guys and their ability to rationalize. It's the *key* point made here in this thread.
My best to you helpme007, contact me any time.
TheFittest
TheFittest is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
hairtech_
Minneapolis,MN,
14.11.2009, 11:40
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
the fittest,
Your words are golden... I hope that ghost readers, really understand the gravity of your posts.
hairtech... Tom
hairtech_ is located in MINNEAPOLIS,MN and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hairtech
Shapiro Medical Group |
windjc
14.11.2009, 22:09
@ TheFittest
|
Answer to TheFittest |
» Hey helpme007,
» Guys like
[b]» yourself and windjc are the opposite of stupid.
[/b]
» TheFittest
Lol. I'm 36, not 17 or 25.
I opted out of a HT in my twenties and early thirties for all the reasons you have mentioned.
I may not be "wise", but the little wisdom I have accrued over my 36 years tells me that at some points we have to take risks in life and, in so, "risk" regretting our decisions.
Otherwise, we might just have regrets about what we could have done and never did.
In the end, I agree with MOST of what you say. But I think that if someone is in their mid to late 30's or older, has responded well to meds, has a decent chance of not ending up a NW 6 or 7, has researched a top of the line surgeon, is ok with hair that's not as thick as the toupees worn by moviestars, has a good grip of their mental and emotional faculties, and DESIRES a HT, then they should get one.
Get one, then take personal responsibility for the result.
And, as for "wisdom", I have found that the greatest lessons in life are learned from our own mistakes, not from those of others, no matter how "prepared" we try to make ourselves by seeking our elders advice.
BTW, I hope you continue to enjoy your successful HT and that it stays squarely and thickly on your head until the day many decades from now when you pass on.
windjc is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
helpme007
15.11.2009, 04:26
@ windjc
|
Answer to TheFittest |
» » Hey helpme007,
» » Guys like
» [b]» yourself and windjc are the opposite of stupid.
» [/b]
» » TheFittest
»
»
» Lol. I'm 36, not 17 or 25.
»
» I opted out of a HT in my twenties and early thirties for all the reasons
» you have mentioned.
»
» I may not be "wise", but the little wisdom I have accrued over my 36 years
» tells me that at some points we have to take risks in life and, in so,
» "risk" regretting our decisions.
»
» Otherwise, we might just have regrets about what we could have done and
» never did.
»
» In the end, I agree with MOST of what you say. But I think that if someone
» is in their mid to late 30's or older, has responded well to meds, has a
» decent chance of not ending up a NW 6 or 7, has researched a top of the
» line surgeon, is ok with hair that's not as thick as the toupees worn by
» moviestars, has a good grip of their mental and emotional faculties, and
» DESIRES a HT, then they should get one.
»
» Get one, then take personal responsibility for the result.
»
» And, as for "wisdom", I have found that the greatest lessons in life are
» learned from our own mistakes, not from those of others, no matter how
» "prepared" we try to make ourselves by seeking our elders advice.
»
» BTW, I hope you continue to enjoy your successful HT and that it stays
» squarely and thickly on your head until the day many decades from now when
» you pass on.
you are absolutley right, sometime we have to take risks to gain something. thats so true. sometimes you have to decide wether you get a HT or not. you cant always wait until you are 35, 40, 45 and so on. Sometimes you just have to do something. If I had followed TheFittest way, I would have waited until I was 35. I wanted to do a HT already at 20. I waited 5 years to really do it, which was too long in my opinion. If i had waited 10 more years until 35 - or I better say if hadnt done it 6 months ago and would now wait the next 10 years, I would always think, "what if I would do it". and some years later I would think "what if I had done it". And thats the biggest problem of waiting with a decision. You always think those thoughts. You get crazy, if you dont take a decision. And in this context, the way young people think - "I have to do this or that fast because I dont have that much time" - is NOT irrational. Not to do a HT for 5 years didnt let me develope normally. I developed all these things in my personality in the last 6 months since my HT and I will develope my personaltiy more in the next months and years. It was so important to do it this year, at 25. This was surely too late, but better late than even later or never. The problem with youth is, its the time when you and your destination decide how you live your life for the next 40 years. You cant clear some things or develope your personality and where you get in life at 35 or 40. You do this in your teenager years and your twenties. And if you dont take a decision and do a HT, because you want to get sure until your baldness has developed completley, you will not only regret it, but you will also dont experience many great and happy things. And if you dont experience those, you dont get far in life. So, you must decide. If you dont do it, you will have a less happy - and in my opinion and experience - even a less successfull life. And this not only at 25,26,27 but also in all these 40 years after. Usually at 20-23 life decides how you will be and how will live your adult life. In my life, this didnt happen in this age, it happens now, at 25. And i know that this process is not over and will go on for - i think - the next 2 years.
At the moment is the most important time in my life. Everything which is important to me, will happen now and the near future or it will never happen. Some things you just have to do in your youth and you cant do it later. Everything I learn now and how I change , will stay until i die. And again, if something like things with girls or my grades at university will not be of success now, i will never be successfull in these things.
If hadnt done my ht 6 months ago and had waited until 35 or 40, I couldnt archieve in life what I can archieve now, where i did it. I absolutley believe this. I dont know if this is a fact for every person. But personally for me, these 3 days at dr. mwambas clinic changed my life more than anything ever before and I know that nothing will happen in my future which will change my life this much.
Im 100% happy that I did this HT at 25. It was successfull to 1000%. Whatever happens to my hair in 10-20 years or in 5 years or whatever: it is impossible that it will look pluggy since i went to a good doc. if I lose my natural hair, i still have the option to shave it or I can let a doctor take out the transplanted hairs again or I do another HT or whatever. This is the worst case. I ALWAYS can shave it. I will maybe have some little white dots in my donor and more hair in my front than behind, but im absolutley that it will look ok shaved and noone will think anything about it.
Thats the worst case and its not a problem , so there is no point you can say that this was wrong. I dont say "Do a hair transplant", but for me it was the perfect decision. Im absolutley sure that its impossible that i will regret it. No way.
helpme007 has 3 Personal Journal(s). Click here to view
helpme007 is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
Truthtales
15.11.2009, 09:35
@ helpme007
|
Answer to TheFittest |
» If I had followed TheFittest way...
the Fittest way? Man i dont know the details of your procedure or if it makes you feel better to downplay all the possible risks of your decision by naming common sense, conservative planning and thinking "thefittest way" but i assure you...
there are many of us who understand all the shortcomings of transplants, all the risky prerequisites for transplants to work at least short term, all the future risk and we chose not to do it not because "thefittest" said so but because our own eyes,common sense and logic says so.
Truthtales is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO |
hairtech_
Minneapolis,MN,
15.11.2009, 10:39
@ TheFittest
|
Open letter to helpme007 (and all young fencesitters) |
thruthtales,
Not everyone thinks like you. And maybe some folks need to read this type of opinion. Opinions vary. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.
You are bringing your own emotions into this. 
hairtech_ is located in MINNEAPOLIS,MN and he is available to meet: NO ---
Hairtech
Shapiro Medical Group |
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