Hair Loss - My experience with intermittent topical Dut.

Hair Transplant Reviews & Patient Records

My experience with intermittent topical Dut. (Propecia, Avodart, Spiro, DHT & hormones ...)

posted by Goingallout, 11.06.2008, 21:56

ť ť ť Hi- I need more than rogaine foam, niz cream, sp, hair vitamins,
ť nettles
ť ť ť and pigeum.
ť ť ť In the simplest terms, what is the main difference between Fin and
ť Dut?
ť ť ť Which one would you recommend and does one give less side effects
ť that
ť ť the
ť ť ť other?
ť ť ť
ť ť ť Thank you!!
ť ť
ť ť
ť ť
ť http://books.google.com/books?id=kUDc9cS50fcC&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=5+alpha+reductase+and+brain&source=web&ots=6Nr1aC7JVp&sig=Lyf7pP2kYl1coq83BdVLkuIuJfk&hl=en#PPA84,M1
ť ť
ť ť I am still trying to figure out what to do vis-a-vis using Dutasteride
ť ť topically. I have a dilemma because it clearly does good for my
ť follicular
ť ť situation, but it has some significant unwanted side effects.
ť ť
ť ť I let, I don't know, about 10 days go by without using it. The
ť occasion
ť ť was I was going to hang out with my French girlfriend for a few days in
ť a
ť ť hotel room and I knew I'd want to have good libido/functioning. That
ť ť aspect went fine, except that as usual I didn't have as much, uh,
ť "juice."
ť ť The good news is that the side effects seemed to be slowly reversing
ť ť themselves. (The bad news I guess is I'll go back to being a
ť satyrmaniac).
ť ť
ť ť More importantly, my intermittent headaches, brain fog, memory loss,
ť and
ť ť vague depression have been relenting -- i.e. getting slightly better
ť each
ť ť day I do not use dutasteride. These are clear side effects for me.
ť ť
ť ť This morning I did a two-minute application of topical dutasteride on
ť my
ť ť wet scalp, the first application I had done in about 10 days (as I
ť said). I
ť ť had started to sense a vague scalp itch coming on, very slight.
ť ť
ť ť My two-minute application worked on the incipient returning scalp itch.
ť It
ť ť went away instantaneously. And I didn't get the strong feeling of heavy
ť ť systemic effects coming on; when I ingested dutasteride or put it on my
ť ť scalp for a long period of time on a daily basis I could feel my blood
ť ť racing a bit (or something like that) and just felt an overall
ť difference
ť ť that is hard to describe. I felt very little of this after the
ť application
ť ť today.
ť ť
ť ť What I am hoping is that the great effects I received from dutasteride
ť in
ť ť terms of stopping my scalp itch (which was correlating heavily with
ť areas
ť ť of heavier hair loss) can be maintained by a once a week quick
ť application.
ť ť Of course, I am hoping that the unwanted side effects from the daily
ť ť systemic dosing will be non-existent or much less apparent at the same
ť ť time.
ť ť
ť ť I seemed to have needed to spend a couple of months on dutasteride,
ť ť though, changing some basic scalp chemistry. For awhile my scalp felt
ť ť tight and itchless and then it just starting feeling great,
ť particularly
ť ť with the application of minoxidil.
ť ť
ť ť Is this a model? Using dutasteride regularly for 2 or 3 months and
ť then
ť ť maintaining some/most of its good effect with a weekly maintenance dose
ť ť after that?
ť ť
ť ť Two things I have noticed in research:
ť ť
ť ť 1) 5 Alpha Reductase is apparently needed for several neurological
ť ť functions. (I am not talking about the function in fetuses/children of
ť ť making sure a man is a man, though that is an important one.} I am
ť talking
ť ť about its heavy concentration in parts of the brain (white matter) and
ť ť spine. Clearly it's doing something important. If I have headaches
ť and
ť ť brain fog, even if it seems mostly faily negligible, it doesn't make me
ť ť feel confident that all is right.
ť ť
ť ť 2) In the article above, it says that congenital lack/shortage of the 5
ť ť Alpha Reductase type that dutasteride blocks is associated with men not
ť ť having Androgenetic Al. or BPH. But that the Alpha Reductase type
ť blocked
ť ť by Finasteride helps, but does not solve AA or BPH. This article
ť didn't
ť ť say what happens to people who have a deficiency of this type of 5AR
ť other
ť ť than their not having AA hair loss.
ť ť
ť ť My conclusion: Just like a good supply of DHT is a mixed bag for some
ť of
ť ť us -- we have a good libido, but diminishing hairline -- suppressing it
ť ť through dutasteride is also a mixed bag: perhaps our hairline
ť improves,
ť ť but we are faced with known and unknown consequences. I am trying to
ť ť balance the mix in that bag for optimal results.
ť ť
ť ť On a side note: I was finishing off with my girlfriend a couple of
ť nights
ť ť ago and as things were coming to their conclusion, I felt an intense
ť ť headache. This has never happened before. My first thought was maybe
ť it's
ť ť another dutasteride side effect.
ť
ť
ť Dude, let me know if the once-a-week deal gives you less side-effects.
ť I'm just really worried about those side-effects you've had. I tried
ť propecia a couple of years ago, and after a month I could barely get
ť aroused or have any libido drive.
ť
ť I'm currently having a shed, the only thing that changed is that I'm out
ť of beta-sis and I haven't re-ordered yet...
ť
ť GO LAKERS!!!

RNORAM:

First of all regarding people who tell you not to pay attention to anecdotes, they are absolutely correct in terms of getting the overall picture. The overall picture suggests that Dut is the most effective anti-androgen and Finasteride is second. (Through scientific (non-anecdotal) studies, they determine whether some treatments have significant impact or not.)

This doesn't mean you'll find that either of them -- Dut or Fin -- works for you. You need to test what works for you. In using these boards, you need to take into account that people are reporting their own anecdotal experiences. Adopt a skeptical attitude and move forward.

Clearly anti-androgens cause you libido/performance loss. My personal opinion is that this happens for a lot more than the reported percentage by the drug companies. However, I think this because of my experience, not because I have conducted studies. What matters is that you have had the same experience, so forget whether other people tell you this isn't the case; for you it is.

My opinion is as follows:

1) You are always going to face the fact that the anti-androgens you use cause libido/performance loss. (For me, a diminished libido is a fact. I handle performance by taking L-Arginine before I am in a situation where I'm going to get laid.) You are the one who needs to decide what balance is important for you.
2) Anti-androgens and other drugs like minoxidil won't work to create miracles if you've already lost a lot of hair. They will help keep you pretty well off at about the level you are currently at when you start using them. In my opinion. This is what has happened with me. I still have a decent head of hair, a bit more loss than I'd care to have, but while the Dut is effective, I am not going to have the head of hair I had 10 years ago I can tell after about 4 months.
3) My intermittent use of dutasteride topically so far is working well for me. I measure this using a subjective reading -- i.e. whether or not I have the scalp itch that bothered me until I had been taking it orally for a few weeks and then started applying it topically (at which point, all the itch COMPLETELY cleared up. This itch coincided with where my hair loss was the worst. A lot of people suggest there is a correlation.) I have been applying the dutasteride topically about once every 5 days. In between I take SP and Beta Sis. These have some libido impacts for me.
4) On intermittent topical Dut my brain fog, depression, memory probs have been going away and my libido is stronger and I seem to have more "juice". My theory/hope (without much basis other than hope) is that the topical dut applied every few days for no more than 2 minutes can keep scalp DHT at bay without heavy systemic spreading (systemic referring to it going into the bloodstream and spreading through the body to affect other systems throughout the body).

Goingallout is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

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Complete thread:

Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - RNORAM, 28.05.2008, 21:04 (Propecia, Avodart, Spiro, DHT & hormones ...)
- Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - brm, 28.05.2008, 23:19
  - Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - brm, 28.05.2008, 23:20
- Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - HairSite Admin, 29.05.2008, 11:57
  - Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - HanginInThere, 02.06.2008, 11:07
- Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - HanginInThere, 02.06.2008, 11:08
- Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - Goingallout, 02.06.2008, 13:47
  - Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - brm, 02.06.2008, 17:23
- Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - Goingallout, 07.06.2008, 22:25
  - Fin or Dut? Your opinion please - RNORAM, 10.06.2008, 21:52
    - 3 or 4 Anecdotes do note make a sample size - fckhrls, 10.06.2008, 23:23
      - 3 or 4 Anecdotes do note make a sample size - brm, 11.06.2008, 00:13
        3 or 4 Anecdotes do note make a sample size - fckhrls, 11.06.2008, 03:15
        3 or 4 Anecdotes do note make a sample size - brm, 11.06.2008, 09:47
      - 3 or 4 Anecdotes do note make a sample size - Bryan, 11.06.2008, 05:34
    - My experience with intermittent topical Dut. - Goingallout, 11.06.2008, 21:56
      - My experience with intermittent topical Dut. - cal, 14.06.2008, 00:55
      - What do you think Bryan? - goata007, 14.06.2008, 01:33
        What do you think Bryan? - Goingallout, 25.06.2008, 09:44