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Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
15.04.2016, 02:23
 

what you need to know (Hair Transplant)

its good to know how good a doctors results are

it is more important to know how bad his results are

Unfortunately, these facts are buiried, concealed, and protected from disclosure.

you only see the good... the tip of the iceberg, but what lurks beneth is what you need to know

read the disclaimer well in advance

never trust before after pics...in this age of technology, its absurd and potentially deceptive...its like taking before and after oil paintings...even the most basic smart phone takes HD video, so use it

i don't post much cause i am over the bs. I thought things would change.

instead, one form of donor destruction ( strip excision) was replaced by another ( rapid fire punch)

Finally, if in doubt..DON'T

hair loss is not a disease, it is natural, and good women could not care less

but if your wife or girlfriend is PUSHING you to do it,,brothers, I give you one last piece of advice..get a private dectective

Dr Ray Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Ahab

16.04.2016, 05:05
(edited by Ahab, 16.04.2016, 05:23)

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

The younger the man is, the less likely he is to lose his hair.

That's possible evidence for baldness to have been subject to the negative force of natural selection.

If so, the remember anything that threatens the passing of your genes to the next generation is about as serious as it gets.

I also suspect that men who inherit baldness from their mothers are more likely to lose their hair at a younger age, as when the gene or genes for early-onset baldness "hide" in a woman, those genes would be more likely to be passed down to the woman's children.

I don't think anyone's ever looked to see if inheriting baldness from the mother is more likely to result in early onset of hair loss, than when the gene or genes are inherited from the father.

Hair loss might well be a factor women have inherited a tendency to be repulsed by, because from the evolutionary standpoint, a good head of hair on a man would have been one of the signals of good health, and so indicate a man who is likely to produce healthy children and who will live to help provide for those children.

Compounding the negative results of mating with a bald man, would be that the woman's descendants would be more likely to be bald, and so more likely to fail at passing her genes down once more or at least fail to pass them down by mating with a high quality woman.

This might be why hitting the gym and developing a redoubtable physique would help to offset the impression baldness gives of bad health.

I also suspect that the younger the woman the more likely she will be repulsed by hair loss. Older women, being in less demand, are more likely to compromise when it comes to picking a mate (and in some cases, women will have already made babies with the hairy bad boy who won't marry them or who beats them, so they then find a nice bald man to marry to help her raise the other man's kids, in return for companionship and sex).

Sorry if that hurts, but the truth will set us free.

And if hair loss is as serious as I suspect, then only by society's being honest about that fact, will potential treatments be fast-tracked to market.

And meanwhile it would be more likely that a head covering or wig would be accepted.

After all, an eye patch or a glass eye is worn for cosmetic reasons, and no adult would ask the wearer "What do you think you're hiding" or "Who are you trying to fool?"




Ahab is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
CueBallBob

16.04.2016, 20:22

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

The problem is that there is no good way of evaluating a doctor except for 1) before and after photos and 2) reading message boards and 3) meeting former patients. Yes, it can all be phony.

But if a doctor posts before and after, and you don't like it, it's revealing for obvious reasons. After looking at dozens of before and afters from a doctor, where the lighting does not seem contrived, one can get something of a picture of what the doctor is capable of.

I am less trusting of good reviews, but one or few bad reviews that stand out can also be malcontents. Look at the thousands of ratings for any product sold on Amazon. But over time, one can get something of a picture.

And to (3), how many are you likely to meet?

So, it's definitely an imperfect analysis. But if there is a better way to go, aside from being baldy, I'd like to hear it..

CueBallBob




CueBallBob is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
25.04.2016, 01:34

@ CueBallBob

what you need to know

Every hair follicle is ireprepacable..once damaged, it is gone forever ,,and nothing can change that.

keep firmly in your mind that each and evey follicule can NEVER be replicated . once transected, its over..

Before some oportunistic hack employs slave labour to drill holes into your head...THINK

I am not posting for clients..i am over that,

I just need you to know and think clealy, and hold those altering your life to account.

Dr Ray Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Lucky

25.04.2016, 07:00

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

We really don't have that many options so please don't judge me if one day I decide to get a hair transplant :-)




Lucky is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
SeanFUE

26.04.2016, 05:37

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

This seems true. Surprised to talk to so many folks that have questiinable results from showcase clinics. At some social venues, posts are deleted or hidden. It is wrong but thats how some folks want to showcase or hide things possibly from unexpecting vulnerable patients. It is a tragedy, but the more folks inform transparently, the safer it is for everyone.

I think patients should do podcasts and inform others more and more. Doctors should be transparent and fair. We all know one has to make a living, but one should do so with integrity and honesty. Dont leave patients hanging. Make sure things are done in a safe manner and patient satisfaction is key. If you didnt deliver then consider refunding the poor guy or gal.

Now im seeing docs buy machines and hire many techs to run mill like services and it is obviously troubling. Whatever happened to do your own surgical work? Very few docs still honor that protocol.

Then you have some agents pissing on other docs they dont work for behind the scenes. And in pms they may try to sway you their way. It sucks but it is the nature of the game.




SeanFUE is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
26.04.2016, 08:08

@ SeanFUE

what you need to know

Before and after photos,,,what era are you living in ???

They are usually doctored and faked to the point of hollywood fantasy

Ask for before and after oil paintings , it will give close to the same BS effect

and when video is presented, be critical,, check for smoke, mirrors and distraction, it is all part of the illusion

The truth is only there for those with eyes to see, the rest of you are unfortunate victims.

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
CueBallBob

27.04.2016, 16:31

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

Before and after photos are from another era? Usually faked? Maybe Sometimes faked. Here is a result posted on this site. While I suppose some expert CGI could have made the "after" photos appear much better than reality, I would doubt it. If these photos do not give a clue as to what the doc is capable of with some good donor hair, please let me know why. I'd love to hear it.

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/board_entry-id-132508-page-0-category-2-order-last_answer-descasc-DESC.html




CueBallBob is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
27.04.2016, 20:03

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

This is a great basic message. Believe little, and if in doubt, don't do anything. Balding is natural. What I like most about the initial post is that Dr. Woods used the term "could not care less" as opposed to "could care less". The former is the only way to use the term, the latter is almost always misspoken. Well done.

On to the meat, I think to say that most images are faked is giving too much credit to clinics. In my experience clinics simply don't have the understanding of the technology necessary to fake their photos. Now, making the results look as good as possible, that is another story altogether, because doctors will use the best photos and video of a patient result to share online. Everyone is guilty of this, including you, but at the same time, what else are they supposed to do? Dr. Woods is guilty of the same thing so I see this as a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Thing is, there is nothing wrong with this as patients should have enough common sense to know that the best result will be shared, not the worst. Many times they don't, and in fact, sometimes it is as if it has to be beaten into the patient's head that what they see online is not as revealing as it could be, but one does what one can.

"..it is more important to know how bad his results are

Unfortunately, these facts are buiried, concealed, and protected from disclosure.

you only see the good... the tip of the iceberg, but what lurks beneth is what you need to know

read the disclaimer well in advance"


I agree 100%. So the question becomes; who is going to be the first to reveal the rest of their iceberg? You? Will you be the first to step up and talk about the "buried, concealed and protected results" you've had that weren't so great or will you instead continue to point out the evils of the industry because no one else will do what you will not do yourself?

And what is it with you and these disclaimers? You've harped about this for, not years, but decades. I have yet to see a form that a patient has to sign before surgery that binds them to any legal action or prevents them from talking about their procedure BEFORE they've had a procedure. Every form I've seen, from multiple clinics, is to document that they have given full disclosure to the patient based on their state or provincial requirements. You do realize that without consent forms in North America a clinic cannot get malpractice insurance, don't you? Without malpractice insurance they cannot open their doors. I'm not saying these gag order forms don't exist, but I have yet to come across a single one and I've seen the consent forms used by many many clinics.

So yes, look at results with the understanding that the result is not the same in every situation. Walk away from a clinic if they make you sign a gag order form before you have surgery. Understand that EVERY SINGLE DOCTOR in the hair transplant industry has some pissed off and/or depressed patients because the doctor f*cked up. Let me repeat that last part; every.single. doctor. has pissed off and/or depressed patients because the doctor f*cked up. If any doctor says they don't have any f*ck ups. Walk out because they are a liar.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
11.05.2016, 04:28

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

" On to the meat, I think to say that most images are faked is giving too much credit to clinics. In my experience clinics simply don't have the understanding of the technology necessary to fake their photos."


.....seriously ???..obviously you have never taken a selfie.

Photos have been faked from day 1.

lighting, angle, styling products etc etc etc. In 1989 I was sent advertising material from various clinics showing photos of miraculous transformations..and then realised it was all BS. As fate would have it , I even met a guy who did the photo fakery, but in most cases , everyone knows how to "get a good shot", and conceal the truth by simple combover, lighting and angle, topik etc.

Videos are not honest when many thousands of grafts were quoted..but all that is shown is a bit of hairline...where is the rest ??..what is happening behind the hairline ??
So you cant always trust video. They are much better than photo but look for what is not being shown.

And no doctor in the history of the world , no matter how great, can claim 100% patient satisfaction rate..not me, not anyone.

HOWEVER, I HAVE NEVER "F..KED UP " anyones head, as you put it. That is a 100% claim that over 25 years with no legal disclaimer, is unsurpassed by any clinic in the world.

I have 25 years worth of info and video on what goes dramatically wrong.
I advise people on what to look out for to stay safe.

But the hair industry has a standard of care which has legally allowed the carnage..the law is on their side,,and the disclaimers that a deformity may occur is solid and hard to dispute.

I am not taking on the standard of care in this industry ,or going to war with it. Legally I would be crushed..for telling the truth.

I can only advise on the dangers and what to look out for.
Since I blew the whistle 25 years ago, people have listened and it is no where near as bad as it was. I am happy to leave it at that

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
12.05.2016, 04:56

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

One important point about the disclaimer joe Tillman didn't quite explain

You see a doctor or their rep, get promised the world, but then sign a legal document stating that seriously bad results and damage may occur....perfectly routine..except for me

And when they do occur, which is much more frequent than people realise, the patient decides to use social media to warn his fellow bros to stay away from dr x.

But there is no privacy anymore, especially when money is at stake.

So the patient will be located and told...". Hey buddy..you were well aware things could go horribly wrong...you signed those 15 pages of apple like clauses and went into this with full disclosure and knowledge...and unfortunately for you, things went seriously wrong......very very sad...but don't blame me or damage my reputation or practice by your unfortunate story or I am legally entitled to sue for defamation and financial loss to my business...."

I have innumerable patients who were seriously damaged elsewhere who are terrified to say a word....I understand their fears .

So yes, not every disclaimer has a specific gag clause because it is , as explained above, the " meat " of the disclaimer itself

So sure, feel free to divulge, but expect a legal response with defamation and financial compensation demands ......so

My advice, read it carefully and decide what are reasonable side effects, and which clauses are a " get out of jail free" card for the production line / dubious clinic

You have a right to negotiate the terms of the disclaimer.....REMEMBER THAT

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
12.05.2016, 23:37

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

Hi Dr. Woods,

Regarding your first post response, you misquoted my statement and by keeping the entire paragraph in the quote contextual meaning would have been preserved.

On to the meat, I think to say that most images are faked is giving too much credit to clinics. In my experience clinics simply don't have the understanding of the technology necessary to fake their photos. Now, making the results look as good as possible, that is another story altogether, because doctors will use the best photos and video of a patient result to share online. Everyone is guilty of this, including you, but at the same time, what else are they supposed to do? Dr. Woods is guilty of the same thing so I see this as a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Thing is, there is nothing wrong with this as patients should have enough common sense to know that the best result will be shared, not the worst. Many times they don't, and in fact, sometimes it is as if it has to be beaten into the patient's head that what they see online is not as revealing as it could be, but one does what one can.


In the above paragraph I'm talking about two separate scenarios. When I refer to you giving too much credit to doctors to manipulate photos I'm talking about photoshop or photo manipulating software because earlier you have mentioned how it is like Hollywood special effects, or something along those lines. You even said you met a guy that was responsible for this??? That is where I say that you give doctors too much credit. But then the part you left out was where I said that, yes, doctors do share only the best looking photos that reflect only the best case scenario of a result. I agree with this 100%. It is here that I mention that you do the exact same thing. You are just as guilty as any clinic when you show your results. In fact, when I look at your before/after photo gallery, with ten sets of photos (four of them are of you), four out of six results are in darker lighting than the before image and are out of focus. I think this has to do with you taking still images from your videos which is taking shortcuts. Buy a camera and learn to use it. You're a smart man.

And no doctor in the history of the world , no matter how great, can claim 100% patient satisfaction rate..not me, not anyone.

HOWEVER, I HAVE NEVER "F..KED UP " anyones head, as you put it. That is a 100% claim that over 25 years with no legal disclaimer, is unsurpassed by any clinic in the world.


It's good that you are open about not having 100% satisfaction rate (no one does) but I have news for you. When a patient is not satisfied, that's a f*ck up. You may not think so because they aren't left with a wide donor scar or punch plugs but when a patient doesn't get the growth they expected, the density they expected or the coverage they expected, or the scarring just wasn't as difficult to see as they hoped, they see it as a f*ck up. Period. This can't be argued. Is it wrong? Of course not, you do the best you can do, but it is what it is.

I am not taking on the standard of care in this industry ,or going to war with it. Legally I would be crushed..for telling the truth.

I'm not sure how you think you would be "legally crushed" by taking on the standard of care in the industry. If you started naming names or "rocking the boat" (as one of your fans likes to say), then you'd have to back your accusations with proof and you'd be protected. With no proof you would in fact be crushed by the libel lawsuits that would result, and rightfully so, indeed. You can't make specific accusations without proof. It is my opinion that if you wanted to take on the industry you would be concentrating on the current state of the FUE market and help to push the notion that a doctor should be doing the procedure, not a small army of technicians without formal medical training.

I can only advise on the dangers and what to look out for.
Since I blew the whistle 25 years ago, people have listened and it is no where near as bad as it was. I am happy to leave it at that


I'm not so sure. I think the current state of the industry is just as bad, if not worse, than it was ten years ago but in a different manner. Patients are not nearly as educated as they once were and you touched on this with your "rapid fire" comment. It has to do with how FUE has evolved since your introduction of the procedure and quite frankly I think you are responsible for much of how FUE has devolved to it's current state. The marketing for FUE is absolutely out of control. Had you been more open about sharing the information that you still, to this day, keep secret then others would not have been forced to reinvent the wheel. Instead of charging 150,000.00 for a doctor to train with you a more modest fee of between 10K to 20K would have been easier to absorb and you would have been able to have more control over the evolution and penetration of the technique into the market. Even just licensing the rights for a modest fee would have allowed the procedure to spread in a more controlled manner thus making it less attractive to others to try it on their own. Now we have the Neografts of the world and, even more dangerous is the Turkish technician model that will soon permeate out of the third world and into Europe, North America and your own backyard in SE Asia.

You must feel sick seeing how your contribution to the field has been bastardized and turned into, literally and figuratively, a Turkish bazaar. I know I do. Did you know that Syrians are set up on the border with Turkey offering FUE for €300.00 per session? They advertise in local papers in Ankara and near the border. What I've seen with my own eyes would shock you. You can see some of it on my Youtube channel.

www.youtube.com/channel/UC-u8ejSLwWikknO4-m7lmpw




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
13.05.2016, 00:10

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

You're being very selective of what you respond to and what you ignore...

You see a doctor or their rep, get promised the world, but then sign a legal document stating that seriously bad results and damage may occur....perfectly routine..except for me

I said in my first post to you...

You do realize that without consent forms in North America a clinic cannot get malpractice insurance, don't you? Without malpractice insurance they cannot open their doors. I'm not saying these gag order forms don't exist, but I have yet to come across a single one and I've seen the consent forms used by many many clinics.

Getting promised the world happens unfortunately but that is a different matter.

Australian law regarding informed consent is unusual in that you, as a doctor, are not required to give consent forms because the Australian government does not see FUE as being surgery. Informed consent is not needed for minor procedures or in cases of emergency where the patient is incapacitated. I believe this to be true based on my research but I may be wrong. Therefore, by law, you can get away with most anything you wish except for leaving a patient alone in the clinic to fetch "medications". That's a no-no. In North America and the EU a doctor, by law, has to provide forms of consent but to this day, and I asked you about this in my first post, I have never seen a gag order that must be signed before surgery except for one clinic in Canada, of which the doctor now has no license and is living in Dubai.

So please, Dr. Woods. I specifically ask you to tell us where these pre-surgery gag forms are and which clinics require pre-surgical gag order compliance? You have talked about gag forms before surgery for decades. Where are they? If you cannot answer specifically, and without deflecting, I must assume you've been making it up at worst or at best you've simply assumed this to be happening.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
13.05.2016, 02:04

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

It is here that I mention that you do the exact same thing. You are just as guilty as any clinic when you show your results. In fact, when I look at your before/after photo gallery, with ten sets of photos (four of them are of you), four out of six results are in darker lighting than the before image and are out of focus. I think this has to do with you taking still images from your videos which is taking shortcuts. Buy a camera and learn to use it. You're a smart man.


Joe, I was taking stills off a sony trv 17 in 1998 and before that, another now defunct camera 25 years ago when there were few alternatives

I REPEAT ..25 YEARS AGO..If that is what you are refering to , well, you are being as honest as you were with your "melon head" deception

When video streaming came along I used it exclusively and DUMPED photos. OTHERS DID NOT

I use video exclusively for many, many years, while the clinics you defend by ITERATING , AND REITERATING their legal rights ( most of them) still stick MAINLY with bs photos or now questionable video.....WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON ?

Joe, you want to be seen as an advocate of the poor ol patient, but you seem too eager to extole the legal rights of the clinics doing all the damage, and little to inform or fight for the patients legal rights

If you want to make a difference, you have got to take extreme heat, criticism, shills, scandal, lies, bs blogs, and enough to almost ruin your finances and personal life, as i have done for the past 25 freakin years.

If you want to go rogue, in a good way, be prepared, because there are too many egotistical reputations, and huge money at stake, so be prepared to get seriously burned, as i have..but still, after all these years, If anyone comes to me or posts on line legitimately that I ever F..KED up their head..I QUIT

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
LIG

13.05.2016, 06:59

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

Taking better pics or videos ain't gonna change the fact that it is still a surgery after all, it is not the perfect solution , I am sure there are just as many patients who got butchered while getting their face done.




LIG is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
13.05.2016, 12:59

@ LIG

what you need to know

No other branch of medicine, including cosmetic surgery, has been responsible for as much disfigurement, deformity, maiming, scarring and just straight crimes against humanity as the hair transplant industry.

So side by side thorough video is important.
Patient monitoring is imperative

And if a patient is damaged and scarred or disfigured by surgery, they must be free to share it and name the doctor responsible...BUT, wait a second, they signed a disclaimer stating HORROR RESULTS are "possible" and NOT the doctors fault.
In other words, the patient went in with full knowledge and disclosure that a disaster may occur..so dont blame the doctor.
And if you do, he is in his legal right to sue you for defamation and damages to reputation/income etc

So, 99.9% are too afraid to talk.

NOW, CAN SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS TO JOE, because I am sick of trying

Speaking of Joe, he went back 25 years to find 5 pics with poor lighting..taken with a SONY TRV 500, BUT, the videos were excellent..you can watch "roman..worlds first body hair" and others shown here from 1998...seems hes kinda obsessed with digging some dirt ..so good luck with that Joe

By the way Joe, you disclose AFFILIATIONS with several clinics..can you disclose the nature of these affliations...and how keen are you to dig back 25 years to check if there are any "skeletons"in the closet..and if, hypothetically there were, how eager would you be to dislose it publically here with the same relish you found 5 or so photos of mine with lighting issues 20 years ago ??

Somehow, I don't think you would be keen..just my opinion

As far as the history of FUE and what really happened , you know very little. If you go back some years here in the archives you might learn something.
But no, I think you are too busy trying to get a pathetic dirt file on me, while talking up your "affiliates"
Good luck gathering more "affiliates"
Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
13.05.2016, 15:50

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

Hi Dr. Woods,

We are getting off topic here but I'll entertain your comment.


"Speaking of Joe, he went back 25 years to find 5 pics with poor lighting..taken with a SONY TRV 500, BUT, the videos were excellent..you can watch "roman..worlds first body hair" and others shown here from 1998...seems hes kinda obsessed with digging some dirt ..so good luck with that Joe

By the way Joe, you disclose AFFILIATIONS with several clinics..can you disclose the nature of these affliations...and how keen are you to dig back 25 years to check if there are any "skeletons"in the closet..and if, hypothetically there were, how eager would you be to dislose it publically here with the same relish you found 5 or so photos of mine with lighting issues 20 years ago ??"



I don't know what you're referring to by "digging some dirt" from 25 years ago. The photos I reference are on the latest and current version of your website. No digging required. This is your website, yes?

woodstechnique.com.au/hair-transplant-before-after/

If these photos are from 25 years ago, and you "dumped photos" altogether, why have them on your new website? Was it webmaster error? Whom I work with is irrelevant as is the 25 year history comment as I did not research through 25 years of your history for these photos. It took two clinics to find them. One click from your signature, the second click on your website. Done.

"So yes, not every disclaimer has a specific gag clause because it is , as explained above, the " meat " of the disclaimer itself"

The original issue is that you are making claims about how disclaimers work and you specifically stated that there are pre-surgical gag forms. This has been a consistent message from you and only now that your message has been challenged do you admit that there are in fact no pre-surgical gag forms to speak of.

I honestly had never given your warnings about this much thought but as I consider your message I realize that this has been part of your self-promotion from the start but it has been a twisted version of reality that simply doesn't exist. I do not care how you promote yourself. I give you credit for being the first to standardize on video for your results but your warnings about disclaimers are either misguided by a lack of understanding or you are intentionally using your countries lack of oversight as an advantage that doesn't actually exist. You are simply taking advantage of the fact that Australian law does not require you to gain patient consent while North American and EU laws do.

I am no legal scholar but what I do know is that if one wishes to discuss their surgery, for better or for worse, there is no law of any land that prevents them from doing so. Signing a consent form does not mean they cannot talk about their surgery. Signing a consent form does not mean they can be sued. Signing a consent form means that they acknowledge that the risks of surgery have been explained, regardless of any promises (which should never be made) and that the patient understands what has been stated. BY LAW a surgery cannot proceed without these forms being signed. That is a fact, of which you are not bound to, because Australian law does not require it for FUE.

Furthermore, if a patient does in fact find that they have had a surgery which did not work out as expected then they are free to discuss it. They simply need to stick to the facts and not embellish with opinions about what may or may not have been the intentions of anyone working on them nor can they make assumptions or make up lies to strengthen their position. Speaking the truth, as the verifiable and documented facts support, and nothing more, is perfectly legal. Period. Once assumptions are made by the patient that are disparaging or comments made that are not factual then the issue of libel comes into play.

The above cannot be misconstrued by you or anyone else as being a defense of clinics using disclaimers. It is simply the way the system works and it serves to PROTECT both parties involved. In fact, it is these same disclaimers and consent forms that would compel any clinic to disclose to the patient EXACTLY how the surgery is performed. This is why if you were in North America or the EU you would not be able to continue performing your surgeries under secrecy as you have in Australia for so many years as you would be bound by law to explain to your patients exactly how your surgery is performed. You would be required to share the punch size used, if you are using manual or motorized, and if you penetrate 4mm, 5mm or if you pull the grafts out with your teeth. So you are actually protected by NOT having consent forms and YOUR patients continue, to this day, to be left in the dark regardless of how many grafts they can see being extracted via video AFTER you've used your tools to score them.

Instead of defending clinics, I've just empowered everyone reading this thread with the facts they need to understand how they can discuss their surgeries, failed or not.

This is what I have told patients in the past and this is what I would tell any doctor I work with and in fact I think that when a patient is unhappy the clinic should own up to it and move forward as best they can WITH the patient. The idea that no doctor has unsatisfied patients is simply a lie and the problem is that no clinic wants to be the first to step up and openly talk about the failures they've experienced. It is taboo in fact and I think this is wrong. To admit errors is to admit being human. It's how those errors are dealt with that matters.

I'd like to see you stop warning people about disclaimer dangers that simply don't exist. If they did, I'd be right there with you, but they don't. Are there promises being made unnecessarily? Absolutely. Are some clinics perhaps falling back on the disclaimers to remind patients of what they were supposed to realize before surgery? I would not be shocked. However, the real danger lies not on paper but with clinics that not only make false promises but promote technicians with no formal medical training as being qualified to deliver safe and responsible FUE procedures to multiple patients a day. The real danger is when the doctor does nothing more than draw a hairline. The real danger is believing that a marketing agency that represents a "doctor of the week" in a third world country has the patient's best interest in mind. I've seen first hand how this works and so it is with experience, authority and facts that I say to you that your crusade against disclaimers is mis-guided and meaningly. I believe your efforts should be used for education about the differences between medical professionals performing surgery vs. high school graduates that rent out closet space in a hospital just so they can say they are part of said hospital.

That, sir, is the real meat of the problem as it stands today. Let go of the disclaimers and embrace the real problems facing YOUR business and affecting patients worldwide; cut rate feeding trough FUE clinics.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
13.05.2016, 17:45

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

My videos are the most transparent and honest in the history of this industry...on my current website please state which ones you think are questionable.
And then I invite readers to compare to your " Affilates" offerings...

We will never agree on the disclaimers...after all, where would your buddies be without them...I see poor guys every week and ask the same question

" why don't you expose this ? "....same ol answer ..fear of legal retribution for telling the truth

In 25 years I never gave myself that safety net because I made sure no disfigurement or deformity would ever occur...and for that I am hated in the hair transplant profession..but 99.9% of patients over 25 years respect my back breaking effort to protect them...

And it's no big secret joe...it never really was. They always knew what i was doing and that scared the crap out of the industry....really intensive long hour dedicated one on one work...no big secret, and .at a fraction of the money the production line hacks in the usa make .Every doctor has a choice..but there is a huge personal physical and financial price in taking the hard road...it is easier to stick to the " standard of care" .which I regard as a conspiracy against the patient.

Look after your affiliates joe...

Btw..we do agree that the Turkish Asian FUE markets are a problem but from day one they could not be stopped...I made the guidelines quite clear and promoted, despite massive opposition, blocking, blackmailing and threats...it was the USA doctors who blocked a full scale public awareness campaign...check the history and archives,,I spent several hundred thousand dollars fighting this and then gave up.....if they can make an easy dishonest buck out of this, then they will take it. They just forgot about the china problem which is biting the USA boys in the butt...and screwing lots of heads...even more than they could screw

Give me some time. I will try to sort this out. But It will need sacrifice and massive first world support, and the chances of that are pretty poor

Dr woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
13.05.2016, 19:17

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

I'd appreciate it if you would drop the condescending attitude along with the victimization line. If you pretend to be a victim, you become one, but it only serves as a red herring as does your concern about whom I work with. Politics is also useless and serves no purpose. Stay on point, please.

The only "opinions" are about the quality of your videos. "Opinions" are not related to disclaimers and the law.

Do you show your patients the punch you use to score their follicular units (if you even use a punch)? Do you discuss with them the potential for poor growth? Do you discuss with them the fact that if they have undiagnosed keloid issues that unsightly scarring may develop? How would you deal with a patient with undiagnosed lichen planar piloris, which may manifest BECAUSE of the very hair transplant surgery that is about to be performed? Do you discuss these very real possibilities with your patients at all? Do they know what size punches you use? For instance, if a patient asked about punch size and you told the patient that you use a 1.2mm punch then that patient can decide, because they are informed, whether or not to consent to moving forward with surgery. That is informed consent and is not a matter of opinion. It is the very definition.

In Australia, you do not have to discuss these issues. Do you not think it is necessary regardless? In North America and the EU, even if the doctor feels it is not necessary, they MUST present this information before surgery can proceed. They have no choice in the matter thus this is not a difference of opinion.

"" why don't you expose this ? "....same ol answer ..fear of legal retribution for telling the truth"


Then they are misinformed, potentially by your own campaign of warning patients against gag orders that you now admit do not exist. That is the crux of our discussion, or at least what my discussion is. There is no conspiracy by "the man" to keep patients down.

Informed consent. It is one of the basics of proper medical care and goes hand in hand with "do no harm".

Dr. Woods, in the interest of disclosure for all and to show that you are truly transparent, please tell us two things.

1. Do you discuss possible complications of FUE surgery with each patient before you begin surgery? Such complications can be keloid, lichen planopilaris, pitting, cobble stoning, ridging, shock loss, etc? It can be a simple matter of poor growth or as complicated as a cardiac reaction to adrenaline injections.

2. What size punches do you use for your procedures?

You won't find another clinic on the planet that won't talk about these issues so let's put your transparency to the test.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
14.05.2016, 00:33

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

Serious side effects will not occur if you sit on your butt all day working under 25 power magnification, making every incision yourself and being accountable for each and every follicle yourself.

It's called commitment and care, joe, but it has terrified the industry from day 1 ...it is much more work, takes much more time, requires skill, and most scary...it is far LESS profitable

As I learned, question the production line income and you get serious attack dogs coming after you.

You didn't answer my questions , but don't bother, I already know the answer

The industry can change, right now, without me. They know how to avoid serious problems, but it's way too much work, effort, skill,...and they loose too much money...I learnt that long ago and gave up. So I don't say much these days because I invite active and powerful Internet bloggers working for the industry, protecting mutual interests.

So now "dear reader" , why did I stir the hornets nest , and open myself to endless negative bs blogs and damaging unfair posts vilifying me, and I never damaged or disfigured anyone in 25 years, a claim very few can make ?..at this stage of my life I don't need this, but...i started this because its WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW

Dr Ray Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
14.05.2016, 02:04

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

"Serious side effects will not occur if you sit on your butt all day working under 25 power magnification, making every incision yourself and being accountable for each and every follicle yourself."

I wasn't aware that sitting on one's butt and working hard on a patient could prevent keloids or LPP. Fascinating. Every dermatologist I know would be eager to learn more.


From your website...

woodstechnique.com.au/hair-transplantation/

"No Legal Disclaimer Required To our knowledge we are the only Hair Transplantation Clinic in the world where legal disclaimers and waivers are not required. This is your guarantee of our ethical approach, confidence in our procedure and commitment that we are providing the safest and most perfect Hair Transplantation method possible."

By this logic, does it mean that the clinic I visited in Turkey is also providing the safest and most perfect hair transplant method possible? They also had zero legal disclaimers and didn't even really care if I had identification. They also didn't want to show me how they perform the procedure and they didn't really want to talk about it much either. I don't recall if they guaranteed that the procedure was perfect but since not needing legal disclaimers is in fact (according to you) a guarantee of perfection I'm sure I would have been fine.

You can see what I mean in the video I made where I went undercover to a Turkish mill clinic last year. The link will have to be copied and pasted.

youtube.com/watch?v=udB_wvxtRKk

I think "WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW" is whether or not you discuss possible complications arising from surgery and what size punches you use. They are two simple questions that should have simple answers. For instance, you could say "yes" or you could say "no" and then you could say ".9mm to 1.2mm". I know the punch size for most every other recognizable clinic out there as it is information they freely share. Patients make decisions regarding their surgical prospects based on this kind of information. Do you think patients should not be informed of possible complications and punch sizes?




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Lucky

14.05.2016, 04:03

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

+1 to Joe if what you said is true about different regulations in N.America vs Australia allowing Dr. Woods an unfair advantage to self promote.




Lucky is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
14.05.2016, 07:01

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

Follicle size and shape matters..and it is determined during surgery.

Australian regulations are stricter than what they get away with in LA, Florida or New York

I am paid to protect the patient...you are paid by doctors and industry

Big disconnect

In order to protect the patient, I place myself at physical and financial risk each and every time

What do you risk joe? Your pay masters bounce the cheque.

You gotta ramp up the anti woods thing cause I'm saying too much.

Keep at it son, you will attract more clinics crawling out needing your special talents to talk em up
And of course get rid of dissenting voices

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
ObamamanIsStevieDee

14.05.2016, 13:08

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

http://www.hairtransplantmentor.com/hair-transplant-mentor/

"I have since moved on from Hasson & Wong and am currently an independent patient advocate."

Hair transplant mentor & industry insider - YES; Independent patient advocate - NO




ObamamanIsStevieDee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
14.05.2016, 13:59

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

Dr. Woods,

This is not an "anti-woods" issue. You're making a claim and I think your claim is misguided so I'm asking you to substantiate your claims. If anything, call it part of the scientific process. No one across the pond is trying to figure out how to beat you down because, unfortunately, you are no longer relevant in the field. In fact, you are literally being written out of hair transplant history. Dr. Sam Lam, in his most recent book, Hair Transplantation 360, does not even mention you in the history of FUE. I saw recently where Dr. Rassman stated on Realself that he invented FUE. It's madness, really, and I've been actively reminding people of your place in history and made sure you had a proper place in my own write up about the history of FUE. We all have you to thank but that is not what this is about so please stop the pity party and playing the victim. It is beneath you.

If you do not have the patient sign informed consent forms how do you ensure that they are informed of possible complications that can arise from any surgery?

Before you perform surgery on your patients do you inform them of possible side effects or complications that can arise from surgery? These complications can include pit scarring, ridging, cobble stoning or discoloration of the tissue.

Do you inform your patients that there is a chance the grafts will not grow?

Do you inform your patients before surgery that in rare instances patients can develop keloid scarring or LPP as a result of surgery?

Do you inform your patients by telling them that in rare instances patients can have a reaction to adrenaline that may lead to cardiac complications?

I'm not trying to dig up a dirt file (or whatever it was that you said). I'm asking you questions based on the point of this thread, that you started, and have been preaching about for two decades.


"No Legal Disclaimer Required To our knowledge we are the only Hair Transplantation Clinic in the world where legal disclaimers and waivers are not required. This is your guarantee of our ethical approach, confidence in our procedure and commitment that we are providing the safest and most perfect Hair Transplantation method possible."


http://woodstechnique.com.au/hair-transplantation/

You said you do not have legal forms to sign and you said this guarantees a perfect procedure (from your website). On this forum, "WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW" is the theme so do you tell your patients everything they need to know before they commit to having surgery? Do they have all the facts before they allow you to break their skin? You have talked about what other clinics do for years. What is it exactly that you do?

What size punches do you use for your surgery? Because hair follicle size will vary what is the smallest punch you use and what is the largest punch you use? I can ask this question of any other clinic in the world and they will tell me. What size punches do YOU use?




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
ejj

14.05.2016, 15:48
(edited by ejj, 14.05.2016, 16:16)

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

My doctor used different sized punches on me with my repair.

.8mm punch for a single beard graft and .9mm for a double beard graft
makes sense really, although most automated devices are unable to do this,
`one hat fits all` approach.

I would like to talk about the disclaimers, general releases that are used afterwards when a procedure has gone wrong and a client is left with nowere to go other than request a refund, this is much more interesting to me




ejj is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
14.05.2016, 18:42

@ Lucky

what you need to know

Fortunately I was mistaken regarding the history of FUE in Dr. Lam's book. You are in fact mentioned but it was hardly befitting, really. You are somewhat of a footnote which is unfortunate.

[image]

The overall issue of requiring informed consent is difficult to confirm online. I could swear I located a reference to minor procedures not needing such consent in NSW Australia but I can no longer find it. I'll add this to my questions.

What is the legal requirement regarding informed consent in NSW?

What size punch do you use for your FUE procedure? To adapt to the follicles you are working with, what is the range of punch sizes you have at your disposal and regularly use?

Do you inform your patients of possible complications or risks from having FUE surgery? This can include various forms of scarring such as pitting/ridging/cobble stoning, etc. There can also be post-operative issues that develop as a result of surgery such as keloid formation as well as LPP.

Do you mention potential cardiac complications as a result from adrenaline injections? Do you point out potential side effects from local anesthesia? These can include dizziness, headaches, blurred vision, twitching muscles and even continued numbness or "pins and needles".




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
14.05.2016, 21:58

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

When referring to the United States, from Clinical Review of Surgery

[image]


"The legal requirement is not the same from state to state but it is the generally accepted rule as laid out in the above image. The legal standards are further met by obtaining this consent with a discussion of the pertinent information, establishing WRITTEN CONSENT stating the patient's agreement to the procedure offered, and again this consent in a manner free from coercion."




From HealthCareFindLaw.com


"When medical care or treatment is provided, medical practitioners are required in many situations to obtain a patient's "informed consent." But what does this term mean? What can happen if proper informed consent is not given?

A Definition

Although the specific definition of informed consent may vary from state to state, it basically means that a physician (or other medical provider) must tell a patient all of the potential benefits, risks, and alternatives involved in any surgical procedure, medical procedure, or other course of treatment, and must obtain the patient's written consent to proceed. The concept is based on the principle that a physician has a duty to disclose information to the patient so he or she can make a reasonable decision regarding treatment."


This should settle the issue of acknowledged informed consent and the law in the United States.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
14.05.2016, 23:36

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

From my most recent research it appears that written informed consent has not been a requirement, at least on the federal level, in Australia. In NSW, the state where Dr. Woods is established, it is also not a requirement.

April 20, 2011 NSW Policy Directive PDF File

"Consent
Patients must give consent before receiving treatment.
In most cases this will be verbal consent. It is NSW Health
policy that written consent is given for some procedures,
such as surgery."


Also interesting. I believe this would be language that would allow FUE to be considered a minor procedure...

NSW Policies PDF File

"Signed consent forms are not required for minor procedures performed under local anesthesia, eg insertion of IV cannulae, urethral catheterisation, or suture of minor lacerations. However, the criteria for obtaining a valid consent must still be met, the procedure must still be explained to the patient and it is advisable for a written note to be made in the patient’s medical records to this effect."

We have a situation where Dr. Woods has been extolling his virtuous decision to not require "legal forms" aka "informed consent forms" while in North America this has not even been an option. I suspect it is the same situation in the EU but I'd rather not spend more time researching this today.

Further, in the US (and Canada) just because one has signed an informed consent form does not mean that they are out of luck if the procedure does not turn out as expected. I found several references to "written consent" not being enough to protect a doctor. Keep that in mind, guys.

Regardless, it appears that as of October 1, 2016, Dr. Woods will have no choice but to obtain informed consent for even minor surgery as new laws go into effect thereby rendering his unfair ( not to mention undisclosed) so called advantage null and void.

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/156989/20160510/australian-medical-board-issues-new-guidelines-cosmetic-surgery-industry.htm

"Patients will benefit particularly from the improved informed consent provisions. Cosmetic medicine and surgery are almost always self-referred, and there is a greater need for the stronger informed consent guidelines announced today by the Medical Board of Australia," said Dr. Ron Bezic, college president."

While signed informed consent is not required in NSW it is strongly encouraged and is considered part of the basic medical ethic.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
ejj

15.05.2016, 01:45

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

Joe
Do you really want to go down this road? The doctors you represent
are the most legally protected that I have come across in 25 years

Do you want me to disclose more about the releases they use to silence
clients ? Its all here at a cut and a paste




ejj is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
15.05.2016, 02:13

@ ejj

what you need to know

Go for it ejj

And rassman took credit for work legitamitely done by Dr Bob Limmer

I have one question....where the hell is our reality tv show ...NBC, CNN, ABC..anyone ?..

This affects 50 % of the population and needs air...joe and I can play good cop bad cop in turns

Move over kardasians....new show in town

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
15.05.2016, 03:24

@ ejj

what you need to know

EJJ,

How well one is protected or not is irrelevant. Dr. Woods claimed that every other clinic has pre-surgical gag orders. I refuted it. He then admitted that this is not the case. He's been saying this however for at least eight years and people have been believing it.


He then said pre-surgical consent forms are in essence acting as gag orders. This is incorrect. Now his own state will require informed consent in a matter of a few months and at that time the Turkish clinics can say THEY are the only ones that don't require consent forms.


Don't confuse "affiliated" with "represent". I represent no one. I work for no one. Therefore, I'm not concerned with what you copy and paste because it doesn't affect me one way or the other. You are obviously chomping at the bit to post something since this is the second taunt you've thrown so have at it. The question is, if your copy/paste is so damning why haven't you posted it before now?




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
15.05.2016, 03:31

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

"No Legal Disclaimer Required To our knowledge we are the only Hair Transplantation Clinic in the world where legal disclaimers and waivers are not required. This is your guarantee of our ethical approach, confidence in our procedure and commitment that we are providing the safest and most perfect Hair Transplantation method possible."

http://woodstechnique.com.au/hair-transplantation/[/b]

How does not being required to collect legal disclaimers by your medical authorities correlate to having the most perfect hair transplant possible?

What is the range of punch sized you use to score follicular units for your patients?

Do you discuss possible complications of FUE surgery with each patient before you begin surgery?




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
15.05.2016, 03:56

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

Yeah joe..for someone not representing someone you sure as hell seem to be representing someone

Ejj, send it to me. I will take the heat

Now, there must be at least, I dunno, 5 people watching this thread, so in the tradition of the Donald, let's make an apprentice type thing

Contestants, your job is to get a meeting with the head of all syndicated reality tv shows

Gerry zuckerfistinbutenberger.....his friends call him ger..but don't do that

It may be a stretch and there may be pain...but if you fail..YOUR FIRED...I'm not sure from what, haven't thought that through

but , if you succeed, you get to be assistant assistant director with all the ham sandwiches and vodka you need to get through the day...I know, it sounds too good to be true

Ok guys, your time starts ...NOW

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
ObamamanIsStevieDee

15.05.2016, 06:45

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

Originally Posted by JoeTillman


Don't confuse "affiliated" with "represent". I represent no one. I work for no one.


http://aphadvocates.org/resources/articles/berthoudjuly5.pdf

"Unlike professionals who are termed as patient advocates on staff at a hospital or insurance company, an independent and
private patient advocate is not affiliated with or paid by a potential conflict of interest organization. A private patient advocate is typically paid directly by the individual
or the family to help find and decide on the best options to prevent a crisis and/or manage a care situation with their client’s interest as the priority."

---------------------------------------------------------------

You can say you're selective with your affiliate partners but saying you represent no one is just bullpoo - they pay you ;-)

Remove the words "independent patient advocate" from your website or alternatively take your fee directly from the patient and you're golden; I don't why you can't take any constructive criticism.




ObamamanIsStevieDee is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
16.05.2016, 01:43

@ ObamamanIsStevieDee

what you need to know

There is no getting through to jotronic...waste of time,

There may not be a specific gag order, but if you talk, they sue...so, you don't talk, hence..gag

Jotronic refuses to accept the blatant legal reality which has shielded the worst butchers for decades like a protected species

Keep it up jotronic and I am writing you out of the reality tv show and replacing you with a hot chick..I will call her jilltronic...and no, don't ask how I thought of the name

And regarding the tv show..how is it coming along ??

Do I need to call the Donald to get things happening ???

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
17.05.2016, 03:38

@ ObamamanIsStevieDee

what you need to know

OiSD,

Independent does not mean unbiased. The link you referenced talks about "private" advocates. I'll never take money from patients for what I do. I'm not pushing hair-growth schemes. I'm independent in that I am not beholden to any single doctor and if I disagree with any of the doctors that want to be a part of what I do (it's happened a few times already) the ability to provide for my family is not put in jeopardy if/when I decide to walk (and I have walked). I don't have to deal with childish temper tantrums, over bearing egos or any of the other things that go on when one is strapped to a desk at one clinic. I get to choose whom I want to work with based on a set of parameters that allow me to sleep at night.

Dr. Woods,

"There is no getting through to jotronic...waste of time"

You can get through to me by speaking to me like an adult. All I'm doing is pointing out some facts and asking you some point blank questions of which the answers should be quite easy to provide. Everything up to now has been evasion and distraction, which are things which you accuse clinics of doing with their videos and photos. Was Dr Pethebridge right? Ironic.

Here is why doctors cannot sue patients for speaking about their procedures.

1. It is a patient's right to say they had a surgery with their doctor, no different than is their right to say they went shopping at Macy's. It is also a patient's right to state their degree of satisfaction, or lack thereof, about their treatment or their final outcome. If someone signs a piece of paper acknowledging they have been informed that one of several problems may occur before they have surgery, stating online that such a problem did in fact occur does not warrant or justify legal action by a doctor. The patient is simply stating as fact that they had a procedure and they are not happy about the outcome that they were told may happen. Without embellishing the issue, a patient has no legal boundaries when discussing their own personal experience. It is the embellishments and assumptions stated as fact that can get people into trouble. It is also stating something as being their opinion when it is an opinion about something which they have no reasonable expectations of knowing enough about to form an opinion. One example would be if a patient said "It is my opinion that my doctor did not use hypothermosol as a holding solution." There is no way for the patient to know one way or the other unless they have factual proof. This does not qualify as an opinion.

2. You may be referring to bullying litigation as a way to intimidate a patient. There is this idea that suits can be filed by the rich and powerful doctor just to keep the poor patient tied up with paperwork and legal bills even when they know they don't really have a case. This can't happen in North America, and I think in the EU as well, due to anti-SLAPP legislation. A "SLAPP" suit (strategic lawsuit against public participation) is a suit designed for intimidation and for silence. In most jurisdictions if one feels they are being unnecessarily targeted by a SLAPP suit they need not worry about long drawn out and expensive court battles. Anti-SLAPP motions usually bypass the normal court system and go straight to a judge that looks at all the evidence and makes a decision. If the evidence shows that the suit is frivolous and intended to intimidate only, the judge will not only throw out the suit they will also award attorney fees and potential damages to the patient that the doctor will have to pay. I have experience with SLAPP issues and while the details I've presented here may not be exact (depending on jurisdiction) it is, in general, factually accurate.

A doctor can sue a patient if that patient speaks about the procedure in a manner that knowingly uses false information or states assumed information as being factual when it is not. This is defamation and it would be a valid basis for a suit if the patient went online and said, "My doctor screwed up and I'm unhappy with my results. He is not board certified and his diploma is a fake." It would be up to the doctor to present proof that he is board certified and he does have a real diploma and then he would be free to sue his patient for defamation.

In summary, a doctor CANNOT sue his patient for going online and saying he's unhappy just because the patient signed a required informed consent form before surgery. CAN'T. HAPPEN. PERIOD. No way, no how.

I just got off the phone with the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency. Nice people. I was asking them about informed consent and they did confirm that it is an absolute across the board in your country. You must obtain informed consent from your patients. This would require you to inform them of the possible complications that can arise from your surgery such as the various forms of scarring that can occur. These include pitting, cobble stoning and ridging. Patients can also experience poor to no growth. Having surgery of any kind can result in the formation of keloid scarring not to mention the activation of previously undiagnosed lichen planopilaris. Anesthesia used for pain reduction can lead to "pins and needles" sensations and even long term numbness. The use of adrenaline injections can have cardiac related side effects.

These are not side effects unique to YOUR surgery. These are side effects that can occur with any FUE surgery. Are you informing your patients about this?

What size punch(es) are you using? Any other clinic in the world would be happy to disclose this but you don't. Why do you knot disclose this? I know that in August of 2007 you made a modification to the "mechanized portion" of your FUE procedure (that's what the report says). Do you still employ a mechanized device for your FUE procedure or have you switched back to full manual, if you ever used full manual to begin with?

I'm only asking these questions because you claim transparency and you've been making false statements about the use of legal forms for years. Instead of answering my initial questions you decide to insult me and play games so now I want to get to the bottom of this. I'm waiting for more in depth information from the Australian Health Practitioner Regulation Agency regarding informed consent. I'm also waiting to hear back about practice scope and specialities, among other things.

By the way, your license is set to expire in September, 2016 so don't forget to renew.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
17.05.2016, 05:48

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

Done correctly , serious or significant scarring will not, and has never occurred in 25 years.

When the nasty scarring and side effects occur, there is a good reason for it .

Can be avoided, but way too much work , its too skillful and too costly...how can the clinics operate without unskilled cheap labour....

Trust me, if I were doing what they were all doing, patients would be signing a telephone book of disclaimers as well..but I am not, never have, and never will subject a patient to that kind of "äcceptable risk " you are so passionately defending.

If I were to knowingly expose a patient to a significant risk, I would be covering my butt. But I am not.

And every doctor in Australia has to renew registration every few years. They send out the paper work several months in advance.

As far as the other stuff your trying to dig for, I am planning it for season 2 of Hair Wars"..

Dr Ray Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
17.05.2016, 06:48

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

, "My doctor screwed up and I'm unhappy with my results. He is not board certified and his diploma is a fake." It would be up to the doctor to present proof that he is board certified and he does have a real diploma and then he would be free to sue his patient for defamation.



So according to Joe, its perfectly OK for a doctor to seriously screw you up, as long as he is board certified and has a real diploma..a license to maim, and get away absolutely free, and sue the victim for complaining.....is there something I am missing here??...

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
17.05.2016, 18:00

@ Dr. Woods

what you need to know

"Done correctly , serious or significant scarring will not, and has never occurred in 25 years.

When the nasty scarring and side effects occur, there is a good reason for it."


I'm not asking if it has happened. I'm asking if you inform your patients that scarring, as well as other side effects, CAN happen. There is a big difference between the two and you are required by the laws of your own country and state to inform your patients of these potential side effects.

"Can be avoided, but way too much work , its too skillful and too costly...how can the clinics operate without unskilled cheap labour...."

You're not the only doctor in the world doing the procedure yourself but regardless, your point is moot and has no bearing on the issue.

"Trust me, if I were doing what they were all doing, patients would be signing a telephone book of disclaimers as well..but I am not, never have, and never will subject a patient to that kind of "äcceptable risk " you are so passionately defending."

I am not defending anything. I am dismantling your claim that "every" doctor that is not you requires "legal forms" before surgery so they can sue their patients if they talk about being unhappy. I am dismantling the notion that your refusal to require legal forms before surgery is an indicator of quality. The reason why you don't require legal forms before surgery is because NSW does not see FUE as surgery thus you are not required by your regulatory body to obtain signed informed consent. Most doctors in North America and the EU do. This is a fact but you are using it to your marketing advantage as if it is a qualifier of the ethical differences between you and the rest of the world.

Dr. Woods, come October 1 of this year you will have no choice but to have "waivers" or disclaimers" as you call it. Your country calls it verified informed consent and very soon it will be a requirement to document informed consent with a signature.

"If I were to knowingly expose a patient to a significant risk, I would be covering my butt. But I am not."

By using local anaesthesia you are exposing your patients to potential side effects. By piercing the skin up to 600 times a day to a depth of 3mm to 6mm you are exposing them to potential side effects. By transplanting follicular units from the donor zone to the recipient zone you are exposing your patients to potential side effects. Many side effects are beyond your control so I hope for your sake you are setting your ego aside and informing them of this.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
18.05.2016, 00:24

@ JoeTillman

what you need to know

I tell patients to beware. FUE may seem less traumatic, but done incorrectly, it will be worse than bad strip....cobblestoning, nasty pits, dents, weird hair angles, severe scalp shock, and extreme global donor decimation ...all done in a few hours.
The doctors and tech teams doing this may be in a bazaar in turkey, or a flash glitzy address in LA, florida, New York etc....makes no difference.

I warn patients of the possible negative consequences of bad surgery. Doctors protect themselves from this. I do not. Because I will not do that to a fellow man

If patients proceed with me, I check for potential cardiac problems, keloid, etc..they Fill in appropriate forms, blood tests are done, and thorough video is taken explaining what is and is not possible, and what to be aware of....ie dont run a marathon the next day

But I do NOT cover myself with the ironclad disclaimers protecting other doctors in their safe production line clinics ....

Done correctly, it is much longer, skilful , involved , and less profitable...but the patient is safe

Hence, no disclaimer required.

When I began promoting the " declaration of patient rights" in 2002 " , despite seminars in the USA in 2002 to 2005, costing me personally over 500k, we failed to get air time...blocked and black balled at every turn...the boys joe is aware of have some major influence.

If it wasn't for HAIRSITE, no one would have heard of it

So yes, all care and due diligence is taken, but I do not, and will not cover myself for the consequences of deliberate and conscious bad production line surgery. I don't do that.
Joe knows doctors that do...and relentlessly and obsessively needs to justify what they are doing

Mans gotta make a living somehow

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
arfy

Homepage

19.05.2016, 09:35

@ Dr. Woods

TL;DR

If you read Dr Woods' opening posts, they are completely reasonable, and do not warrant Joe Tillman's nit-picking sentence-by-sentence criticisms.

It's ironic to see that Joe Tillman is a professional consultant for less-experienced FUE doctors now, since he was one of the most vocal skeptics about FUE when it first emerged internationally 15 years ago, or so. Joe Tillman's past track record with FUE really kind of sucks. He has discouraged lots of guys from getting FUE in favor of strip. He encouraged lots of guys to get transplants in general. He is on the wrong side of history with FUE. Joe Tillman should not be posting in this thread at all.

Dr Cole makes patients fill out a form saying that graft yields might be lower than ___% (different levels of graft failure depending on when the surgery occurred). Everybody knows that this clause is a "get out of jail free card" in a court of law. At least Cole provides the legal disclaimer in advance - many clinics only show it to you on the day of surgery (which should be illegal). If I'm not mistaken, some of the doctors now have a clause that the patient cannot publicly complain. Dr Woods has no legal disclaimer at all.

Over the past 15 years, I've seen a couple of patients who said they were disappointed with Dr Woods yield, but these patients only received a limited number of grafts. I am not aware of any Woods patients who had virtual TOTAL GRAFT FAILURE after paying for megasession graft counts, as I experienced with Dr Cole. I am not aware of any patients who experienced serious shock fallout, which is a real risk with strip surgeries. I have not seen any Woods patients with massive scarring, as patients of Dr Brandy, Puig and Mangubat have. Dr Woods does not have the same kind of "screwups" that some other doctors do, as Joe Tillman is implying in this thread. For Joe Tillman to suggest there is some kind of comparison there is not just misleading, it's highly offensive.

In my opinion, while not perfect, Dr Woods is one of the very few ethical doctors in the entire field, and over time he has been proven right about key issues with FUE. These were some of Dr Woods' predictions about the future of FUE, which were dismissed or called "self-serving" by industry insiders like Joe Tillman at the time (roughly 2001, 2002):

- Unethical doctors will apply "hair mill" salesmanship and conveyor-belt surgical techniques to FUE in an effort to maximize profits, while carelessly exposing the patients to risk of failure.

- Inexperienced FUE doctors will attempt too-large sessions which will have lousy percentages of graft survival, and will inadvertently damage surrounding hairs in the donor area.

- In many cases the new FUE patients will be unaware of the damage for years - the wasted donor area and loss of viable surrounding hair.


Unfortunately, I have been a victim of all of these predictions. The root problem with hair transplants goes far beyond a comparison of techniques like "FUE vs strip". It's a highly corrupt and immoral industry which at it's core is based around exploiting the insecurity of self-conscious guys with too much money and not enough common sense.




arfy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
Dr. Cole Botched My Corrective Surgery

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/hairtransplant/


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
19.05.2016, 23:51
(edited by JoeTillman, 20.05.2016, 00:24)

@ arfy

TL;DR

Hi Arfy,

I think your case is the ideal case to reference with regards to Dr. Woods's point about "gag orders". That is what I've been talking about and the rest of your statements/accusations/or whatever are not only inaccurate and wrong, they're irrelevant.

Here are his words just from THIS thread where he talks about how informed consent forms, which are required, are actually gag orders and by merely talking about a bad experience a doctor can sue. These aren't my words, they are his.

"So the patient will be located and told...". Hey buddy..you were well aware things could go horribly wrong...you signed those 15 pages of apple like clauses and went into this with full disclosure and knowledge...and unfortunately for you, things went seriously wrong......very very sad...but don't blame me or damage my reputation or practice by your unfortunate story or I am legally entitled to sue for defamation and financial loss to my business...."

"So sure, feel free to divulge, but expect a legal response with defamation and financial compensation demands ......so"

"In other words, the patient went in with full knowledge and disclosure that a disaster may occur..so dont blame the doctor.
And if you do, he is in his legal right to sue you for defamation and damages to reputation/income etc."

"There may not be a specific gag order, but if you talk, they sue...so, you don't talk, hence..gag"


So I will ask you, Arfy. With the blitzkrieg of negative press you have given Dr. Cole over the past year, the shock and awe campaign the likes of which have literally never been seen on any forum to the degree that you have carried it, tell us about the lawsuit that Dr. Cole filed to "silence" you. Tell us about the army of hair transplant attorneys that lined up, salivating at the chance to take you to court because of a violation to the disclaimer you signed.

I'll tell you where it is. It is nowhere because it DOES.NOT.EXIST. If it did, if he were in a position to sue you because of what you signed, you would not be taking part in this thread. Period.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
Dr. Woods

Homepage E-mail

Australia,
21.05.2016, 02:38

@ JoeTillman

TL;DR

Interesting

Joe doesn't refer to or seem to care about Arfy's ordeal

He is more concerned that Arfy' is talking about it

Dr Woods




Dr. Woods is located in AUSTRALIA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
website: www.woodstechnique.com.au
email: drwoods@thewoodstechnique.com
Inventor & Pioneer: FUE & BHT Hair Transplant
===
Dr. Ray Woods is a sponsor of HairSite. Rankings on HairSite are based on # of successful patient results posted and not affected by sponsorship. Any clinic or doctor can post their patient results in HairSite forum and earn a point for every successful result posted. It is not the mandate of HairSite to track failed or unsuccessful results, readers are advised to do their own research carefully before making a decision about hair transplant and not rely solely on our ranking system.


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
21.05.2016, 03:34

@ Dr. Woods

TL;DR

Originally Posted by Dr. Woods

Interesting

Joe doesn't refer to or seem to care about Arfy's ordeal

He is more concerned that Arfy' is talking about it

Dr Woods


Dr. Woods,

What I may or may not be concerned about is irrelevant as it has nothing to do with our discussion. This is not the place to discuss Arfy's issues as it has it's own separate and quite lengthy thread. All you have done throughout this thread is inject distractions and irrelevant points. It's all meaningless.

Arfy's case directly contradicts your claims, Dr. Woods. Arfy signed disclaimers before his surgery, as he states in his own words, yet he is still able to talk and I imagine he has talked more than any patient in history. If ever there was a case where a doctor wanted to file a lawsuit against a patient I would imagine it would be this one. According to everything you've said in this thread and others for the past decade there should be nothing to stop this from happening yet here is Arfy, one year later, sans legal muzzle talking about his case. How do you explain this? The evidence is conclusive. You're wrong.

Regarding what you do and do not tell patients before surgery, you have not demonstrated that you explain the problems that can happen with surgery REGARDLESS of whether or not the surgery is "bad".

"I tell patients to beware. FUE may seem less traumatic, but done incorrectly, it will be worse than bad strip....cobblestoning, nasty pits, dents, weird hair angles, severe scalp shock, and extreme global donor decimation ...all done in a few hours.
The doctors and tech teams doing this may be in a bazaar in turkey, or a flash glitzy address in LA, florida, New York etc....makes no difference.

I warn patients of the possible negative consequences of bad surgery. Doctors protect themselves from this. I do not. Because I will not do that to a fellow man"


I have not been asking if you inform patients of the possible complications from surgery in New York, LA or Florida. I have been asking you if you inform your patients of the potential complications that can arise from ANY surgery that YOU perform on them in your clinic. Assuming they are in your office before surgery it is difficult to see how discussing what can happen with other clinics has any bearing on your patients. You seem to have trouble understanding the difference.

I'm done here until I hear back from the Australia Board of Medicine regarding the requirements for what constitutes "informed consent" when dealing with FUE. If you don't have anything to say specifically regarding your points about disclaimers, to support your position, then everything else is irrelevant and useless. Finally, I have not made personal slants toward you in our discussion so please refrain from doing so with me. It is unbecoming of a doctor.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
ejj

21.05.2016, 10:41

@ JoeTillman

TL;DR

Arfy's case directly contradicts your claims, Dr. Woods. Arfy signed disclaimers before his surgery, as he states in his own words, yet he is still able to talk and I imagine he has talked more than any patient in history. If ever there was a case where a doctor wanted to file a lawsuit against a patient I would imagine it would be this one. According to everything you've said in this thread and others for the past decade there should be nothing to stop this from happening yet here is Arfy, one year later, sans legal muzzle talking about his case. How do you explain this? The evidence is conclusive. You're wrong.


Joe

Information I have to hand supports Doctor Woods claims. And I signed the pre consent form also. You`re wrong the releases quite clearly say `agree to not disparage online, or our legal rep will seek to recover reasonable costs`

It is a two step process, most including yourself are not familiar with

1 sign pre consent all ok no problem

2 sign pre consent, problem = offers of part refund, free work but the legals
get deeper and more specific, releasing the physician from all responsibility

I assume arfy took no such deal, and I have nothing but total respect for him and his courage to do what he has done.
He is also telling the truth, but telling the truth has him $36,000 out of pocket, thats a bitter truth pill to swallow for a no show! His doctor tried to deal, he made offers, part offers, but arfy stood firm, if arfy had accepted payment then he would not be on this thread or forum now ...

Most take the money Joe it is used as a `bargaining tool to buy silence` .....totally unethical, the doctors pay to keep their reputation intact the pre consent is a pre cursor, the first layer of protection if you like to unethical doctors

2 pages you should be ok as required by state and insurance comps

10 - 20 pages head for the door !




ejj is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


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arfy

Homepage

22.05.2016, 08:12

@ JoeTillman

To Joe Tillman

It has not been a "blitzkrieg of negative press" about Dr Cole. I have posted in 3 forums so far about my experience. Everything I said was true, and I took care to document the proof, whenever documentation was possible. There is a good deal of negative information available about Dr Cole available online for those who know how look. My case is just one example of Dr Cole's issues.

Quote:
"With the blitzkrieg of negative press you have given Dr. Cole over the past year, the shock and awe campaign the likes of which have literally never been seen on any forum to the degree that you have carried it"

Absurd hyperbole. Ridiculous. You make it sound like I've been unfair to Dr Cole. My family is out $36,000, with virtually zero results. Dr Cole promised a refund and reneged. All I did was recount the facts and back story. I was also quite careful to explain that I didn't claim that nobody gets good results from Dr Cole, and that he does have satisfied patients too.

You are a paid representative of several doctors. You're not just some ordinary guy posting online. You don't see anything unethical about a paid doctor's representative criticizing competing doctors? I certainly do. And in this thread, over what? Nothing! Your objections were superficial. And now you've been debunked.




arfy is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO

---
Dr. Cole Botched My Corrective Surgery

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/hairtransplant/


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
24.05.2016, 01:54

@ arfy

To Joe Tillman

Arfy,

You said…

"You make it sound like I've been unfair to Dr Cole."

With all due respect, I did no such thing. You believe this only because you would expect me to. This is called confirmation bias where you expect something to be, therefore it appears to be, even when it is not. I gave no judgement about your actions. I merely made an observation about the documentation. The only opinion I made was that it is unprecedented in scale. Your initial post on HLT was 11,886 words along with multiple images. That was just one post. On this website your thread has 97 posts and you made 40 of them. Name one patient on any of the forums for the past 20 years that has come close to the scope of documentation you’ve made regarding your negative experience. For the record, I told Dr. Cole twice that he should refund your money and I said it to his face.

Again, my point was that your case, your documentation, proves that consent forms in fact do NOT act as gag orders. If they did then you would not be speaking as freely as you are due to these alleged legal constraints disguised as consent forms. I hope you understand now.

Ejj,

You said...

"I assume arfy took no such deal…"

You assume too much.

Quote by Arfy…

"Dr Cole promised a refund and reneged."

It was not up to Arfy. Done.

Regardless it is the fact that he signed a disclaimer before surgery that is the point and said disclaimer did not act as a gag order, as Dr. Wood’s says it does.

You however are speaking about something entirely different.

"1 sign pre consent all ok no problem

2 sign pre consent, problem = offers of part refund, free work but the legals
get deeper and more specific, releasing the physician from all responsibility"


There is no such thing as a “pre-consent” form.

To clarify, what Dr. Woods and I are discussing is his decade long claim that by gaining a signature from the patient that acknowledges that they understand the potential problems that can arise from surgery, the doctor is not only protected from a malpractice suit but it also allows the doctor to sue the patient for defamation if they speak ill of their experience. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE. ANYWHERE.

What you are talking about is what can happen AFTER surgery when the result is not up to expectations or if problems occur. In fact, you know that your topic has to do with after surgery, and is unrelated, because you said as much in your first post in this thread.

"I would like to talk about the disclaimers, general releases that are used afterwards when a procedure has gone wrong and a client is left with nowere to go other than request a refund, this is much more interesting to me."

You even made the word "afterwards" in bold to emphasize your understanding of the situation. Here is your original post showing as much...

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-132607-page-0-category-2-order-last_answer.html

If you do however have proof of how a simple informed consent form, which is required in most medical jurisdictions, acts as and HAS BEEN USED AS a gag order successfully against a patient in the form of a defamation suit then please do present it. If not then nothing you have said thus far is relevant to the point.

The ridiculousness of this thread acts as a testimony to how easy it can be to use the power of distraction to avoid answering questions.

1. I provided evidence that signed informed consent forms are required by most medical jurisdictions.

2. I’ve demonstrated how signed informed consent forms do not act as gag orders and they do not automatically allow a doctor to sue his patient for defamation.

3. I asked if Dr. Woods provides all the known side effects that can manifest due to FUE surgery.

4. I’ve asked him the size(s) of his punches.

Yet thirty-eight posts later we still do not know the punch sizes and we know that instead of telling his patients about potential side effects of his surgery he instead tells them of the side effects of bad surgery performed somewhere else. We also know that he’s up to date on current reality television programming.

My questions would be answered, and quickly, had they been asked of any other clinic. Why is it so unconscionable that I ask the same of Dr. Woods?




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
ejj

24.05.2016, 19:37
(edited by ejj, 24.05.2016, 20:17)

@ JoeTillman

To Joe Tillman

one.Quote by Arfy…

"Dr Cole promised a refund and reneged."

It was not up to Arfy. Done


Yes it was up to Arfy, if he had agreed to accept the lower offer, he chose not to .... Done.



Again, my point was that your case, your documentation, proves that consent forms in fact do NOT act as gag orders. If they did then you would not be speaking as freely as you are due to these alleged legal constraints disguised as consent forms. I hope you understand now


How long was it again before Arfy felt comfortable sharing his story with the public?

Procedure 2005, complained 2007 went public 2015 ! The consent form did a pretty good job of gagging him for this time period 8 years !!! ...... You cant have it both ways he was gagged by a consent form for a period of time




ejj is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


Post reply
JoeTillman

Vancouver, BC Canada,
24.05.2016, 21:07

@ ejj

To Joe Tillman

"Quote by Arfy…

"Dr Cole promised a refund and reneged."

It was not up to Arfy. Done.

Yes it was up to Arfy, if he had agreed to accept the lower offer, he chose not to .... Done.

Again, my point was that your case, your documentation, proves that consent forms in fact do NOT act as gag orders. If they did then you would not be speaking as freely as you are due to these alleged legal constraints disguised as consent forms. I hope you understand now.


How long was it again before Arfy felt comfortable sharing his story with the public, 12 - 18 months ? The consent form did a pretty good job of gagging him for this time period ...... You cant have it both ways he was gagged by a consent form for a period of time "

EJJ,

Those were Arfy's words. Not mine. HE said that the offer was "reneged". If you wish to debate Arfy on this then by all means, go ahead but it has no bearing on the facts. Arfy was not silenced by the consent form he signed. And yes, done.

What Arfy "felt comfortable" with is irrelevant. It's what he is bound to, or not bound to, by the disclaimer he said he signed that IS relevant and what he signed did not prevent him from speaking. It was his comfort level, as you just stated and not the form itself. Remember, Dr. Woods is talking about legal forms, not comfort forms.

Do you understand what a consent form is? Consent forms are put in place as requirements by the various medical organizations (AMA, NHS, etc.) to make sure patients can make a decision based on all of the relevant information that they are legally entitled to have. In the UK, the NHS says the following about consent.

"Consent to treatment is the principle that a person must give their permission before they receive any type of medical treatment or examination. This must be done on the basis of a preliminary explanation by a clinician.

Consent is required from a patient regardless of the intervention – from a physical examination to organ donation.

The principle of consent is an important part of medical ethics and the international human rights law."


It's a big deal when something is referred to as a human right but this is what informed consent is about. By saying you have been informed about a procedure does not give a doctor automatic rights to take a patient to court for saying they are unhappy. It's beyond ludicrous to say so and informing patients about what can happen at other clinics is not considered to be informed consent. At best it is uninformed consent.




JoeTillman is located in VANCOUVER, BC CANADA and he is available to meet: YES
email hairsite@aol.com to arrange a meeting.

---
Joe Tillman
aka "Jotronic"
Hair Transplant Mentor™

My Affiliations:
- Dr. Jerry Cooley, Charlotte NC USA
- Dr. Emorane Lupanzula, Brussels Belgium
- Dr. Bernard Arocha, Houston Texas
- Dr. Ron Shapiro
- Beauty Medical, Milan Italy


Post reply
ejj

24.05.2016, 21:48

@ JoeTillman

To Joe Tillman

Joe you said " it was not up to arfy" it very clearly was up to arfy, he refused to accept the reduced, sum his choice.

Interesting point about its not how a patient feels ...

Yes it is Joe, exactly that, people are scared to talk, that`s what the informed consent form does, thats why people take time to tell their story

They feel frightened to do so ` gagged, silenced by default` no matter of the
legal rhetoric, its how many feel a point lost on many industry employees

What Arfy "felt comfortable" with is irrelevant. It's what he is bound to, or not bound to, by the disclaimer he said he signed that IS relevant and what he signed did not prevent him from speaking


But it did prevent him from speaking for 8 years. You are arguing over a technicality. I do not believe you have read every informed consent form, from every Doctor, neither have I. Therefore Its reasonable to assume the thirty page ones from LA doctors are more legally binding than the 2 page ones from Europe each carry different levels of protection.



The state of New South Wales does not currently require informed consent from hair transplant physicians however most of Doctor Woods associates use them whilst he does not, why do they use them if they do not have to ?




ejj is located in [NA] and he is available to meet: NO


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